Author Topic: The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church  (Read 4895 times)

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Offline Orest

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It was a single parish not the entire Orthodox Church in PR.
Yes one single "mission parish"  with two clergy men.  I wonder in the alter boys in the picture are Fr. Peter DiLeo's sons.  If the parish is so small I guess that is why there are no pictures of the congregation. 

Offline Orest

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.
How do we really know that is true.  I say this because every article on the internet that mentions this was either written by Vujisic or his good friend who came with him from Australia Peter DiLeo.

If it were true why was it not on the official EP web site for example which has the minutes or summaries of the meetings of the Holy Synod?

Offline hecma925

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.
How do we really know that is true.  I say this because every article on the internet that mentions this was either written by Vujisic or his good friend who came with him from Australia Peter DiLeo.

If it were true why was it not on the official EP web site for example which has the minutes or summaries of the meetings of the Holy Synod?

That's a good question.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Both Fr. Andrew Vujisic and Fr. Peter DiLeo (Vulic) were originally with the Antiochian Orthodox Church in Australia before moving to the ROCOR and onto the EP.
http://www.perspiring.com.au/perspiring-articles/1996/3/5/weeping-icon-focus-of-unholy-row/

Quote
March 5, 1996
Sydney Morning Herald
"Three Sydney clergy have been indefinitely suspended and face a "spiritual
court" over the removal of an allegedly miraculous, oil-perspiring icon of
Jesus Christ from a local church.

"The two priests and one deacon from the Antiochian Orthodox Diocese were
suspended in mid-February by Bishop Gabriel Gibran, the Church's head in
Australia, and will be called to appear before a religious tribunal later
this year.

"They are Father Zoran Vujisic, Father Peter Di Leo and Deacon Christopher
Henderson."


This article mentions their suspension etc.

Quote
Court decides who owns weeping cross
Author: By IAN VERRENDER
Date: 31/03/1996
Publication: Sydney Morning Herald
Section: NEWS AND FEATURES
Page: 2

A five-month battle over the ownership of a weeping crucified Jesus, ... was resolved in the Supreme Court on Friday.
Archbishop Gabriel Gibran, who heads the Antiochian Orthodox Church in
Australia, won control of the religious icon ...Three clerics, including two priests and a deacon who since have defected to the Russian Orthodox Church, have been suspended from the Antiochian Orthodox Church and threatened with excommunication by Archbishop Gibran as a result of the dispute.
Father Peter Di Leo, ...has left the country. The other priest, Father Zoran Vijisic, is believed to be in Europe, leaving  Deacon Chris Henderson to fight the case.
   

http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/viewDocument.ac?page=1&sy=smh&kw=St.+and+Mary%2\
7s+and+Antiochian+and+Orthodox+and+Church&pb=all_ffx&dt=enterRange&dr=entire&sd=\
12%2F12%2F1994&ed=12%2F12%2F1998&so=relevance&sf=text&sf=headline&rc=10&rm=200&s\
p=adv&clsPage=1&docID=news960331_0064_1284

Offline Dominika

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^^ that's quite strange that priests of Serbian origin were under Antioch, since Serbian Church has a strong presence in Australia. It makes suspicious immediately.
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

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Offline RaphaCam

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Well, but they're under the Supreme Pontiff now, so it's all cool regardless.  ;D
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

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Offline hecma925

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^^ that's quite strange that priests of Serbian origin were under Antioch, since Serbian Church has a strong presence in Australia. It makes suspicious immediately.

Then ran to ROCOR during the bad old days.  Not exactly uncommon for clergy facing discipline.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline IreneOlinyk

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.
How do we really know that is true.  I say this because every article on the internet that mentions this was either written by Vujisic or his good friend who came with him from Australia Peter DiLeo.

If it were true why was it not on the official EP web site for example which has the minutes or summaries of the meetings of the Holy Synod?

That's a good question.

Fr. Peter DiLeo-Vulic used to be the web master for the Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Mexico's web site but now he is Catholic.

I have been trying to find the official web site:  does anyone have a link?  It used to be:  www.goarchmexico.org  but that address now belongs  to a person supposedly named Johar Gorach.
I tried the wayback machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20140507094816/http://www.goarchmexico.org/guatemala.html
which led me to this.   http://archive.li/XeQ4P

This link no longer works too:  http://www.orthodoxiamexico.org/

What am I doing wrong?

Offline hecma925

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Nothing.  It appears the metropolis has no web presence, but hasn't for a while.

I didn't realize he had been the webmaster.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 12:35:24 PM by hecma925 »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Nothing.  It appears the metropolis has no web presence, but hasn't for a while.

I didn't realize he had been the webmaster.

Gotta get called "Master" somehow...
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline hecma925

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Nothing.  It appears the metropolis has no web presence, but hasn't for a while.

I didn't realize he had been the webmaster.

Gotta get called "Master" somehow...

Only Anastasios is Webdespota, in my book.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline LivenotoneviL

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"That they All may be One, that the World may believe that Thou has sent Me"

"The welcome ceremony was presided over by the Vicar General of the Archdiocese, father Alberto Figueroa Morales on behalf of the Archbishop. The priests and parishioners made the profession of faith and during the liturgy commemorated the Supreme Pontiff, Francisco and metropolitan Robert.

https://holysynergy.wordpress.com/2017/07/11/breaking-news-the-orthodox-church-of-puerto-rico-enters-into-communion-with-the-catholic-church/

"I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope St. Damasus I], that is, with the Throne of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built." (St. Jerome, Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396])

When are the other separated Churches going to restore communion with the Throne of St. Peter?

Pope Benedict? I know you are retired but how many times are you going to stir the pot on this forum?

I honestly think it would be cool to talk to a retired Pope  :P
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Offline Orest

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^^ that's quite strange that priests of Serbian origin were under Antioch, since Serbian Church has a strong presence in Australia. It makes suspicious immediately.

Bravo Dominika - you are the only person in our group who caught this vital fact. 

I was just reading this great article about what one Serb thinks about all this via google translator:

http://www.carsa.rs/ponovo-unijacenje-pravoslavna-crkva-portorika-na-celu-sa-arhimandritom-srbinom-iz-crne-gore-priznala-papu/

And I love his pictures and comments.

Offline RaphaCam

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.
How do we really know that is true.  I say this because every article on the internet that mentions this was either written by Vujisic or his good friend who came with him from Australia Peter DiLeo.

If it were true why was it not on the official EP web site for example which has the minutes or summaries of the meetings of the Holy Synod?

That's a good question.

Fr. Peter DiLeo-Vulic used to be the web master for the Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Mexico's web site but now he is Catholic.

I have been trying to find the official web site:  does anyone have a link?  It used to be:  www.goarchmexico.org  but that address now belongs  to a person supposedly named Johar Gorach.
I tried the wayback machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20140507094816/http://www.goarchmexico.org/guatemala.html
which led me to this.   http://archive.li/XeQ4P

This link no longer works too:  http://www.orthodoxiamexico.org/

What am I doing wrong?
If I see what's going on, this is absurdly juvenile.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline IreneOlinyk

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^^ that's quite strange that priests of Serbian origin were under Antioch, since Serbian Church has a strong presence in Australia. It makes suspicious immediately.

Bravo Dominika - you are the only person in our group who caught this vital fact. 

I was just reading this great article about what one Serb thinks about all this via google translator:

http://www.carsa.rs/ponovo-unijacenje-pravoslavna-crkva-portorika-na-celu-sa-arhimandritom-srbinom-iz-crne-gore-priznala-papu/

And I love his pictures and comments.

This article is hilarious.  So after leaving being suspended by his bishop in Australia and arriving in Puerto Rico 1996, Fr. Andrew Vujisic went back to his native Montenegro to try to convince  the Metropolitan of  Montenegro to the Puerto Rico mission under his jurisdiction?  Pretty far fetched plan.  I mean what connection does Puerto Rico have with Montenegro?  The first colony in an Empire perhaps?

Offline hecma925

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From a blog posting:

Quote
L’iniziatore del passaggio di comunione ecclesiale sembra essere stato l’archimandrita Andrej (al secolo Zoran Vujisić, nella foto), ex chierico dell’arcidiocesi del Messico, che nel 2009 era stato eletto vescovo dal Santo Sinodo del Patriarcato Ecumenico con il titolo di vescovo di Tralles, ma aveva richiesto di rimandare la sua consacrazione. Padre Andrej era stato anche il tramite per il quale il numeroso gruppo degli ortodossi del Guatemala era stato ricevuto nel Patriarcato Ecumenico.

Passaggi di chiesa come questo sono estremamente rari, e suscitano comprensibili perplessità, ancor più quando sono guidati da un personaggio che avrebbe potuto in ogni momento prendere il suo posto nell’episcopato ortodosso di Costantinopoli. In particolare, fanno scendere un’ombra sul concetto stesso di “pan-ortodosso” secondo il Patriarcato Ecumenico. Solo il 9 luglio scorso padre Andrew Phillips intitolava uno dei post del suo blog 'Pan-ortodosso' = non ortodosso?, e queste parole, che in sé potevano sembrare un po’ estremiste, acquistano un nuovo e inquietante senso alla luce dell’evento di Porto Rico. Se l’idea di una comunità “pan-ortodossa” riesce a essere così facilmente intercambiabile con l’uniatismo, forse è ora di rivedere urgentemente ciò che significa “pan-ortodosso” per tutti noi.


Google translate:

The initiator of the passage of ecclesial communion seems to have been Archimandrite Andrej (in the century Zoran Vujisić, pictured), former cleric of the archdiocese of Mexico, who in 2009 was elected bishop by the Holy Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate with the title of Bishop of Tralles, but had asked to postpone his consecration. Father Andrej was also the means by which the numerous orthodox group of Guatemala had been received in the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Church passages like this are extremely rare, and they raise understandable perplexity, even more when driven by a character who could at any time take his place in the Orthodox Episcopate of Constantinople. In particular, they shadow the concept of "pan-orthodox" according to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Only on 9 July Father Andrew Phillips named one of his blog posts 'Pan-Orthodox' = not Orthodox ?, and these words, which in themselves may seem somewhat extreme, acquire a new and disturbing sense in the light of the event Of Puerto Rico. If the idea of a "pan-orthodox" community is so easily interchangeable with uniatism, it is perhaps time to urgently review what "pan-orthodox" means for us all.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Dominika

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^^ that's quite strange that priests of Serbian origin were under Antioch, since Serbian Church has a strong presence in Australia. It makes suspicious immediately.

Bravo Dominika - you are the only person in our group who caught this vital fact. 

I was just reading this great article about what one Serb thinks about all this via google translator:

http://www.carsa.rs/ponovo-unijacenje-pravoslavna-crkva-portorika-na-celu-sa-arhimandritom-srbinom-iz-crne-gore-priznala-papu/

And I love his pictures and comments.

This article is hilarious.  So after leaving being suspended by his bishop in Australia and arriving in Puerto Rico 1996, Fr. Andrew Vujisic went back to his native Montenegro to try to convince  the Metropolitan of  Montenegro to the Puerto Rico mission under his jurisdiction?  Pretty far fetched plan.  I mean what connection does Puerto Rico have with Montenegro?  The first colony in an Empire perhaps?

Thank you Orest for linking this article. Sad but true - that's the best comment.

Frankly speaking, I wasn't suspicious when this Serbian diocese in Latin America was created and firstly went under Montenegrin metropolitan, since quite a lot Serbs of Montenegrin origin in the end of XIX century and in the beginning of XX century went there, above all to Argentina. One of them was my great grandfather (however his daughetrs stayed in Yugoslavia).
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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The victory of two Serbian speaking Orthodox priests to the Catholic Church was reported on Croatian TV:


https://gloria.tv/article/qaKMvR1rJMDX1H311ZRUPKL3x

https://gloria.tv/article/kPTSCBWbcDHw1gTj8i6mwS7nv

Offline augustin717

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The victory of two Serbian speaking Orthodox priests to the Catholic Church was reported on Croatian TV:


https://gloria.tv/article/qaKMvR1rJMDX1H311ZRUPKL3x

https://gloria.tv/article/kPTSCBWbcDHw1gTj8i6mwS7nv
does that make them Croatian Puerto Ricans now ?
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Dominika

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The victory of two Serbian speaking Orthodox priests to the Catholic Church was reported on Croatian TV:


https://gloria.tv/article/qaKMvR1rJMDX1H311ZRUPKL3x

https://gloria.tv/article/kPTSCBWbcDHw1gTj8i6mwS7nv
does that make them Croatian Puerto Ricans now ?

Well, actually, they should consider themselves and shoudln't be considered by others as Serbs. Are they Croats now?... The best way is to ask them ;)
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

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Offline hecma925

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I doubt they consider themselves Puerto Rican.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline IreneOlinyk

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I doubt they consider themselves Puerto Rican.

I wonder how they managed to immigrate to Puerto Rico from Australia.

Offline Agabus

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I doubt they consider themselves Puerto Rican.

I wonder how they managed to immigrate to Puerto Rico from Australia.

On a boat?
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THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline hecma925

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I doubt they consider themselves Puerto Rican.

I wonder how they managed to immigrate to Puerto Rico from Australia.

On a boat?

Or a plane, like most people.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline IreneOlinyk

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I doubt they consider themselves Puerto Rican.

I wonder how they managed to immigrate to Puerto Rico from Australia.

On a boat?

Or a plane, like most people.

I meant the legal immigration process of getting a visa etc. and permanent status.     Why would they be accepted as immigrants?

Offline hecma925

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Puerto Rico is part of the United States.  So whatever it took them to get from Australia to the US.  A passport.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

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I wonder if people who are ok with Coptic wrist tattoos consider that "polluting the temple"? Like are there acceptable reasons for polluting the temple? This pollution stuff is biblical language, but it doesn't seem to be what most critics are getting at these days. People damage and disfigure their bodies all the time in a thousand different ways, many of which are rarely or never criticized. More accurate language might be "people who get tattoos are dressing their temple with art I dislike." Though in temple art, also, Copts always seem to get a pass. Lucky. Selam?

Offline hecma925

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Wrong thread, maybe?

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

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lol, it would seem so  :-[  :laugh:

Offline hecma925

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I agree with you, fwiw. 
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church
« Reply #120 on: September 29, 2017, 01:25:52 PM »
Just an update.  This Catholic source article states that negotiations of the two priests to join the catholic Church began as early as 2015, that is two years before it happened.

Quote
Unable to secure a canonical release, the community sent a petition to Archbishop Gonzalez in 2015, requesting information about entering into full communion. 

https://parma.org/news/puerto-rico-welcomes-first-ever-eastern-catholic-parish

The San Juan de Climaco Orthodox mission under Fr Gregorio Justinano of the ROCOR is still Orthodox.

Both the priest and his two sons continue to be listed on official ROCOR site:
https://eadiocese.org/clergy.html

One son is a monk: https://www.orthodoxartsjournal.org/fr-silouan-justiniano-returning-to-puerto-rico-with-icons/


This is their parish blog on the web:  https://misionsanjuanclimaco.blogspot.ca/

Offline hecma925

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Re: The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church
« Reply #121 on: September 29, 2017, 02:20:49 PM »
Fr. Gregorio actually has 3 sons.  One hieromonk, one deacon, and one monk.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Agabus

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Re: The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church
« Reply #122 on: September 29, 2017, 02:28:53 PM »
I doubt they consider themselves Puerto Rican.

I wonder how they managed to immigrate to Puerto Rico from Australia.

On a boat?

Or a plane, like most people.

I prefer not to tempt physics.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church
« Reply #123 on: September 29, 2017, 06:11:51 PM »
Fr. Gregorio actually has 3 sons.  One hieromonk, one deacon, and one monk.

What no daughters? 

Do you know anything about Father Christopher Grist who also joined the catholic Church?
https://parma.org/news/puerto-rico-welcomes-first-ever-eastern-catholic-parish

Offline hecma925

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Re: The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church
« Reply #124 on: September 30, 2017, 12:04:59 PM »
I know nothing of this Latin priest Christopher.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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