Author Topic: The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church  (Read 5771 times)

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Offline RaphaCam

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The apostasy happened last month and he was involved.

RC Archdiocese website in Puerto Rico article (in Spanish)

http://elvisitantepr.com/acuerdo-entre-iglesia-ortodoxa-y-catolica-en-la-arquidiocesis/

Just because he's in Guatemala right now doesn't mean much.
bizarroweird
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 01:07:38 AM by RaphaCam »
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Offline hecma925

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.

Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

I wouldn't be surprised.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline mikeforjesus

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Anyway I am tempted to say hell is only for unrepentant evil people only God knows who they are we must not judge

That doesn't mean I should not judge things and have an opinion of if that person is in danger  but only God knows I must not judge people as though I know how evil they are
Only God knows the truth at the end. I can not see the heart of a  person who is unrepentant but God does and knows what he will deserve. Also I am not saying these converts but I brought it up because I thought about how I have seemed to in the past made to appear to make  non specific people to deserve more than what they deserve but I think they do deserve it but we can not show what only God knows and I didn't like people to think people are in hell who are not evil. Fact is we all deserved hell without Christ but now we are justified and made right with God and we are not evil if we repent
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:32:36 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Anthony1986

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So they really accept Papal supremacy and infallibility?

If the laypeople in Orthodox Church joined RC, I won't be that surprise. However, why the Orthodox Priest decided to join RC?

It is just for the theological reason? Or something else?
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline IreneOlinyk

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.

Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html

Offline Samn!

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.

Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html


If you look at another one of the pages linked above, Fr Vujisic seems to have an insatiable penchant for diploma-mills and dubious titles of nobility. On the site linked here, most of the bishop's titles are for real, active sees, but claimed for random people unassociated with these dioceses. For example, Fulda is a real (not titular!) diocese in Germany, and it would probably surprise its bishop (https://www.bistum-fulda.de/bistum_fulda/bistum/bistumsleitung/bischof.php ) that a newly-Catholic priest in Puerto Rico claimed his see...

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.

Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html

Oh my gosh.  There's not enough groan in the world for this.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Iconodule

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Let's check on this trainwreck in 6 months and see if Xavier still wants to brag about it.
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Offline Lepanto

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This is really bizarre. One would be tempted to say "Welcome home!", but this is all a bit too strange.
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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.

Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html

Hell, if I can get a few titles like that I'll switch sides.  Having to fast only two days a year is just icing on the cake ermine on my cape.
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Luke

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What was the impetus for the switch to Catholicism, I wonder.
Cash? :-\

Offline Anthony1986

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Just happened last month. No further explanation of why I decided to be in communion with Rome. It is kind of strange. 
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Cyrillic

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"I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope St. Damasus I], that is, with the Throne of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built." (St. Jerome, Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396])

Rome's claims might have a bit more to them than is often acknowledged here, but you do those claims a disservice by quote mining, and throwing quotes taken out of context at us.

When are the other separated Churches going to restore communion with the Throne of St. Peter?

Why don't you begin by setting your own house in order?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 11:49:03 AM by Cyrillic »

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.

Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html

Hell, if I can get a few titles like that I'll switch sides.  Having to fast only two days a year is just icing on the cake ermine on my cape.

 ;D ;D ;D
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Cyrillic

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A shame, but it seems like Central/South America is overall a very unstable place when it comes to religious allegiances.

True. Same thing in Africa.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 12:03:53 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline IreneOlinyk

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A shame, but it seems like Central/South America is overall a very unstable place when it comes to religious allegiances.

True. Same thing in Africa.
What is going on in Africa?  I thought most of the parishes were founded by Greeks and under the Patriarch of Antioch.

Offline Cyrillic

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A shame, but it seems like Central/South America is overall a very unstable place when it comes to religious allegiances.

True. Same thing in Africa.
What is going on in Africa?  I thought most of the parishes were founded by Greeks and under the Patriarch of Antioch.

I wasn't talking about the Orthodox Church in Africa.

Offline RaphaCam

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I only heard of one such case in Brazilian Orthodoxy, in which the vicariate failed to provide a priest and the people got one from schismatics. Otherwise, we're very cautious with canonicity (maybe for the fact there are so many Cacodox out there), my archdiocese itself had a hard time to keep canonical while hell was breaking loose in our European hierarchy.
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Offline hecma925

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My unsubstantiated theory is that the parish got comfortable.  They were using an unused (!) RC chapel located in the safe confines of a property that is a low-security mental institution (historically a lepers' colony).  In the article of the RC archdiocesan website:

Quote
la comunidad San Espiridión ha estado celebrando sus liturgias por más de 10 años, gracias a la generosidad y solidaridad del Arzobispo de San Juan quien les cedió el uso del templo por tiempo indefinido. Sin duda, un gran gesto de ecumenismo puesto en práctica.

Translation (mine):  The community of St. Spyridon has been celebrating their liturgies [at their current location{my note for context}] for more than ten years, thanks to the generosity and solidarity of the Archbishop of San Juan, who granted use of the temple for an indefinite time.  Without a doubt, a great gesture of ecumenism put into practice.


Also, the words of the concelebrating RC priest:

Quote
Les transmito la alegría del Arzobispo Mons. Roberto González Nieves quien ha querido quitar la incertidumbre que existía sobre cuándo o cómo se debía realizar este acuerdo y dijo que es tiempo ya de hacerlo, y aquí estamos.

Translation (mine):  I convey to you the joy of Archbishop Monsignor Roberto González Nieves who wanted to remove the uncertainty that existed as to when or how this agreement should be made and said that it is time to do so and here we are.

I conjecture that the RC Archbishop called them to task as to start paying for the chapel and/or buy it.  It's more convenient to just give in than to have to be put out of a nice, safe facility and have to raise money (Sell pirogi?  What do apostate Montenegrins sell?) to find a place.

It could be worse; the apostate and former archimandrite willfully led his flock for theological or very personal reasons.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Porter ODoran

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At one point, (2009 iirc) Arch. Andrija was a bishop-elect.

Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html

Hell, if I can get a few titles like that I'll switch sides.  Having to fast only two days a year is just icing on the cake ermine on my cape.

A punner in our midst!
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Dominika

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I have splited posts being an off-topic to the thread called Apostolic succession, apostasy, schism

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Offline Xavier

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The Apostolic Church is where the faithful gather around their right-believing bishop and celebrate the eucharist.

1. This is true so far as faithful or priests preserving unity in a local Church is concerned, as also St. Ignatius of Antioch says, that all the faithful are to remain subject to their priests and all to the priests to their Bishops; it doesn't address how the faithful are to know which group of Bishops to preserve communion with should a schism arise in the episcopacy itself, which is what is relevant to the Catholic-Orthodox matter.

 The same St. Ignatius provides the answer, when he speaks of the Church of Rome presiding over the brotherhood in love, a phrase (St. Ignatius and other Fathers speak of the Bishop as "presiding" and "president" of his local Church, as of course he is) that applies to the role of the Church of Rome in the hierarchical structure of the universal Church a role analogous to that which belongs to a Bishop in his local Church, namely to be the centre of unity against any schisms.

Whom will you sacramentally communicate with if two bishops, otherwise believing identically, separate from communion with each other? We for our part remain in the communion of the Church of Rome which presides and wait for separated Christians to return to Catholic unity with the Apostolic Throne of St. Peter.

2. Mina, regarding "Apostolic Succession is not limited to Peter and Peter is not limited to Rome", Certainly. All Bishops are Successors of the Apostles. They are not all the direct Successors of St. Peter, however, and the two are related as the Succession of Prime Ministers in a country is to that of Chief Ministers of that same country. Both are a true example of an actual succession of ministers, but the prime minister holds the principal succession and the others exercise the fullness of their ministerial authority insofar s they do it with and under him. It is the same with the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops.

With regard to the second part, I actually agree completely with the excerpt Ialmisry posted from Pope St. Gregory the Great. The three sees that held the most prominence according to the most ancient canonical taxis were Rome, Alexandria and Antioch. Pope St. Damasus I states the same in 382 A.D as follows,
Quote
"the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church ... [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first See, therefore, is that of Peter the Apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it”.
He then enlists the Sees of Alexandria and Antioch and the Petrine basis for the prominence they always enjoyed from the days of antiquity. Do you agree that the first See has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it? If yes, what basis is there really for ever separating from Her communion?

3. A study of the incidents which happened in 1054 and the consequent excommunication of Caerularius for trampling upon the Holy Eucharist because it was consecrated in Azyme Bread (Fr. Adrian Fortescue chronicles this at length for those interested in the CE) will show that right and justice were on the side of the Roman Church. Even otherwise, the schism continues to the present day sheerly through an inertia that is unwilling to take the necessary steps towards restoring communion.

St. Irenaeus describes schism as originating when "those who, for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason that occurs to them" and this 1054 incident was the very definition of a trifle. To us Catholic Christians, the schism mainly still endures for political reasons especially now the Greek Church has signed a declaration with us saying the spiration of the Spirit from the Father is mediated by and through the Son; and the Oriental Church confesses together with us that in Christ divinity and humanity are perfectly united without mingling or confusion and without separation or alteration; what remains is only what St. Irenaeus calls "any kind of reason that occurs" for schism and truly trifles. Will address the other responses later.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Whom will you sacramentally communicate with if two bishops, otherwise believing identically, separate from communion with each other?

Good thing this is completely beside the point.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html

Oh my gosh.  There's not enough groan in the world for this.
[/quote]

It gets better and better:
He has an official "Coat of Arms"  as of 2013 and is "Lord "of the manor of Deandraw in Alston Moor. The second and third quarters refer to the arms of the Earls of Derwentwater, the original owners of the manor now owned by the armiger."

 http://www.armorial-register.com/arms-us/vujisic-a-arms.html

And he has received "Royal Patronage" for his diploma mill school:

Quote
On 29 of May 2015, HRH Crown Prince Nugzar Bagrationi-Gruzinski, (Georgian: ნუგზარ პეტრეს ძე ბაგრატიონ-გრუზინსკების), by the Grace of God, Head of the Royal House of Georgia, and Heir to the Throne of Georgia, extended his Royal Patronage to St. Gregory Nazianzen Institute for Eastern Christian Studies"
 

And in return the Royal House of Georgia has bestowed on Fr. Andrew "..membership in Princely-Count of the Georgian Kingdom
Ambassador-at-Large of The Royal House of Georgia"

https://orthodox-institute.org/faculty.html
 

Offline Porter ODoran

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Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html

Oh my gosh.  There's not enough groan in the world for this.

It gets better and better:
He has an official "Coat of Arms"  as of 2013 and is "Lord "of the manor of Deandraw in Alston Moor. The second and third quarters refer to the arms of the Earls of Derwentwater, the original owners of the manor now owned by the armiger."

 http://www.armorial-register.com/arms-us/vujisic-a-arms.html

And he has received "Royal Patronage" for his diploma mill school:

Quote
On 29 of May 2015, HRH Crown Prince Nugzar Bagrationi-Gruzinski, (Georgian: ნუგზარ პეტრეს ძე ბაგრატიონ-გრუზინსკების), by the Grace of God, Head of the Royal House of Georgia, and Heir to the Throne of Georgia, extended his Royal Patronage to St. Gregory Nazianzen Institute for Eastern Christian Studies"
 

And in return the Royal House of Georgia has bestowed on Fr. Andrew "..membership in Princely-Count of the Georgian Kingdom
Ambassador-at-Large of The Royal House of Georgia"

https://orthodox-institute.org/faculty.html
[/quote]

So shameful.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Cyrillic

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The same St. Ignatius provides the answer, when he speaks of the Church of Rome presiding over the brotherhood in love

"the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans".

3. A study of the incidents which happened in 1054 and the consequent excommunication of Caerularius for trampling upon the Holy Eucharist because it was consecrated in Azyme Bread (Fr. Adrian Fortescue chronicles this at length for those interested in the CE) will show that right and justice were on the side of the Roman Church. Even otherwise, the schism continues to the present day sheerly through an inertia that is unwilling to take the necessary steps towards restoring communion.

After the Latin-rite Normans desecrated Greek churches in southern Italy.

Misleading tripe like this is why I despise apologetics.

With regard to the second part, I actually agree completely with the excerpt Ialmisry posted from Pope St. Gregory the Great. The three sees that held the most prominence according to the most ancient canonical taxis were Rome, Alexandria and Antioch. Pope St. Damasus I states the same in 382 A.D as follows,
Quote
"the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church ... [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first See, therefore, is that of Peter the Apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it”.
He then enlists the Sees of Alexandria and Antioch and the Petrine basis for the prominence they always enjoyed from the days of antiquity. Do you agree that the first See has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it? If yes, what basis is there really for ever separating from Her communion?

The popes of the day claimed a lot. The Eastern churches of the day ignored it.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 03:53:19 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline Porter ODoran

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The same St. Ignatius provides the answer, when he speaks of the Church of Rome presiding over the brotherhood in love

"the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans".

You're missing that the above obviously means the Pope.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Agabus

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I suppose titling things "An Orthodox in Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church" doesn't give as much wind to the sails as "The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico..."

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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The same St. Ignatius provides the answer, when he speaks of the Church of Rome presiding over the brotherhood in love

"the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans".

You're missing that the above obviously means the Pope.

"which also presides" doesn't mean "which only presides"

It would take a great effort of doing hermeneutical gymnastics to make 'also' into 'only'. That, or a bunch of ellipses between "which... presides." I wouldn't be surprised if some Roman Catholic website reproduced the quote in that way.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 04:40:40 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
This profile is defunct as of 11/8/2017. I created it before Orthodoxy, and have used it after Orthodoxy.

I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

I will likely lurk on this forum under a different name.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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I suppose titling things "An Orthodox in Puerto Rico enters communion with the Catholic Church" doesn't give as much wind to the sails as "The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico..."

#Fakenews
This profile is defunct as of 11/8/2017. I created it before Orthodoxy, and have used it after Orthodoxy.

I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

I will likely lurk on this forum under a different name.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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It gets better and better:
He has an official "Coat of Arms"  as of 2013 and is "Lord "of the manor of Deandraw in Alston Moor. The second and third quarters refer to the arms of the Earls of Derwentwater, the original owners of the manor now owned by the armiger."

 http://www.armorial-register.com/arms-us/vujisic-a-arms.html

And he has received "Royal Patronage" for his diploma mill school:

Quote
On 29 of May 2015, HRH Crown Prince Nugzar Bagrationi-Gruzinski, (Georgian: ნუგზარ პეტრეს ძე ბაგრატიონ-გრუზინსკების), by the Grace of God, Head of the Royal House of Georgia, and Heir to the Throne of Georgia, extended his Royal Patronage to St. Gregory Nazianzen Institute for Eastern Christian Studies"
 

And in return the Royal House of Georgia has bestowed on Fr. Andrew "..membership in Princely-Count of the Georgian Kingdom
Ambassador-at-Large of The Royal House of Georgia"

https://orthodox-institute.org/faculty.html

Sounds like he's bucking for a guest appearance of Game of Thrones.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline byhisgrace

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Regarding Ignatius, it's a non-sequitur to assume that "presiding in love" means that the Church of Rome has universal and immediate jurisdiction over the whole Church. Though consistent with that interpretation, it doesn't in any way prove it.
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

Offline Porter ODoran

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The same St. Ignatius provides the answer, when he speaks of the Church of Rome presiding over the brotherhood in love

"the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans".

You're missing that the above obviously means the Pope.

"which also presides" doesn't mean "which only presides"

It would take a great effort of doing hermeneutical gymnastics to make 'also' into 'only'. That, or a bunch of ellipses between "which... presides." I wouldn't be surprised if some Roman Catholic website reproduced the quote in that way.

Regarding Ignatius, it's a non-sequitur to assume that "presiding in love" means that the Church of Rome has universal and immediate jurisdiction over the whole Church. Though consistent with that interpretation, it doesn't in any way prove it.

What is the subject of the verb "presides" here? I think you two are missing something.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline byhisgrace

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What is the subject of the verb "presides" here? I think you two are missing something.
The Roman Christians. Why?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 08:34:18 PM by byhisgrace »
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

Offline Porter ODoran

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What is the subject of the verb "presides" here? I think you two are missing something.
The Roman Christians. Why?

Well that's flatly wrong.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline byhisgrace

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What is the subject of the verb "presides" here? I think you two are missing something.
The Roman Christians. Why?

Well that's flatly wrong.
What's the right answer?
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

Offline Porter ODoran

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What is the subject of the verb "presides" here? I think you two are missing something.
The Roman Christians. Why?

Well that's flatly wrong.
What's the right answer?

e ekklesia

But that's not my point. My point was to try to call attention to a joke that O4C missed, but it's time is past now.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline byhisgrace

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e ekklesia
So your interpretation of Ignatius's Epistle to the Romans is that he was saying that the Church as a whole presides in love, not just the Church of Rome?

Quote
But that's not my point. My point was to try to call attention to a joke that O4C missed, but it's time is past now.
Please tell me the joke.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 09:21:43 PM by byhisgrace »
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

Offline Justin Kolodziej

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It was a parish under the EP.
According to some Internet zealots it's only a matter of time before the rest of us under the EP follow them  :-\
Quote from: Nun M.
The dread Pantocrator...is also "Christouli mou", (my little Christ), who really listens when you run in to your neighborhood church on the way to work to cry and light a candle because your daughter is in trouble at school. The untouchable and all-holy Mother of God is also "Panayitsa mou", who really will take your part before the court of heaven because, just like your own mom, she’ll always stick up for her children, no matter how badly they’ve behaved.

Offline Porter ODoran

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e ekklesia
So your interpretation of Ignatius's Epistle to the Romans is that he was saying that the Church as a whole presides in love, not just the Church of Rome?

I don't think that's my interpretation. It's plain. The Church, worthy of this paragraph of honorable epigrams, the author knows also presides in the place of the Romans, i.e., his audience gives her due place. Do you want the sentence diagrammed?

Quote
Quote
But that's not my point. My point was to try to call attention to a joke that O4C missed, but it's time is past now.
Please tell me the joke.

That the Catholics think the "Him" in the highlighted sentence isn't Christ but the Pope.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 09:42:55 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline byhisgrace

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e ekklesia
So your interpretation of Ignatius's Epistle to the Romans is that he was saying that the Church as a whole presides in love, not just the Church of Rome?

I don't think that's my interpretation. It's plain. The Church, worthy of this paragraph of honorable epigrams, also presides in the place of the Romans. Do you want the sentence diagrammed?

Quote
Quote
But that's not my point. My point was to try to call attention to a joke that O4C missed, but it's time is past now.
Please tell me the joke.

That the Catholics think the "Him" in the highlighted sentence isn't Christ but the Pope.
Understood.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 09:43:36 PM by byhisgrace »
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

Offline Agabus

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It was a parish under the EP.
According to some Internet zealots it's only a matter of time before the rest of us under the EP follow them  :-\

LOL, isn't that what they're always breathlessly saying?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 12:22:03 AM by Agabus »
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline hecma925

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Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.

You may be right.  Hey check here: he is already part of the "The Imperial Ecclesiastical Nobility"  of the Holy Roman Empire.

His Serene Highness Prince Andrew Zoran Vujisic, OT. Kt.HRE
Prince Bishop and Prince Abbot of Fulda

http://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/imperial-ecclesiastical-nobility.html

Oh my gosh.  There's not enough groan in the world for this.

It gets better and better:
He has an official "Coat of Arms"  as of 2013 and is "Lord "of the manor of Deandraw in Alston Moor. The second and third quarters refer to the arms of the Earls of Derwentwater, the original owners of the manor now owned by the armiger."

 http://www.armorial-register.com/arms-us/vujisic-a-arms.html

And he has received "Royal Patronage" for his diploma mill school:

Quote
On 29 of May 2015, HRH Crown Prince Nugzar Bagrationi-Gruzinski, (Georgian: ნუგზარ პეტრეს ძე ბაგრატიონ-გრუზინსკების), by the Grace of God, Head of the Royal House of Georgia, and Heir to the Throne of Georgia, extended his Royal Patronage to St. Gregory Nazianzen Institute for Eastern Christian Studies"
 

And in return the Royal House of Georgia has bestowed on Fr. Andrew "..membership in Princely-Count of the Georgian Kingdom
Ambassador-at-Large of The Royal House of Georgia"

https://orthodox-institute.org/faculty.html
Quote
So shameful.

I'm putting that on a mug.

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Sharbel

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Do you agree that the first See has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it?
No.  Popes Honorious I and John XXII come to mind.
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ

Offline Porter ODoran

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Do you agree that the first See has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it?
No.  Popes Honorious I and John XXII come to mind.

Suppressor of the true followers of Francis Assisi. May God have mercy on his soul.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy