Author Topic: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)  (Read 12012 times)

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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #270 on: July 19, 2017, 02:25:38 PM »
And yet her son is still gay ...

Probably not, since he's just a 14-year-old kid. But maybe. But the good news here, which Sr. Vassa overlooked, is that he's still a human being and can be saved. Glory to God.

I am hoping that by 14 you knew your own sexuality.

Gosh, no. I guess you still don't know.

Quote
Many kids are sexually active in that ballpark.

God forbid. However, let's put your fantasies aside and look at the specific case. The child here only thinks he's gay; he has no sexual experience. You finally got in a taunt that was funny. God may forbid it but it doesn't stop youngins from doing it. You don't think you are gay or straight you are gay or you are not. Sexual experience doesn't make you gay or straight.

Quote
Are you suggesting that gays can't be saved?

As this Synod so ably illuminates, it is Sr. Vassa's thinking that suggests someone with homosexual desires cannot be saved. She never said that. Salvation persists thru life and extends throughout experience, yes, even to the body. If it did not, it wouldn't be real rescue and preservation, but the kind of impotent legalism that mocks Evangelicals who were "born again" that one day 31 years ago and now trapped in discontents and impelled to invent alternate gospels, e.g., the Prosperity Gospel.

Quote
How would you handle your kid being gay and getting married to a person of the same sex and starting a family?

If you would not wish on my children death, why do you wish on them the death of their genetic lines? Well if they have your questionable DNA they would be doing the world a favor. as well as of much of their personal purpose.

Quote
Will you hurl insults at them or cut them out of your life?

Is that how you treat someone who is suffering? And if they tell you they are happy and not suffering? You just keep telling them that you know better and that they must be in a state of suffering?But what I would do is certainly assure them that there is always hope in Christ who is mighty to save. Yes, he can even save straights.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #271 on: July 19, 2017, 02:25:56 PM »
Just as the holy gospel enjoins , some of these bishops must be hating themselves !

When you're tempted to see the whole world thru sex-colored glasses like this, just remember that even activists put the homosexual population at an incredibly tiny percentage.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #272 on: July 19, 2017, 02:26:05 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

Including GOA bishops.


Say it isn't so!
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #273 on: July 19, 2017, 02:26:44 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

From what I read she didn't say that homosexuality is God-given gift. She said said that sexuality in general is a God-given gift and that there are problematic aspects in it for both straight and queer. That's hardly controversial or against Orthodox anthropology.

*Why does everyone keeps addressing her as sister? AFAIK at least in Finland nuns are addressed as mothers.

Around here, Mother means an abbess.  Sister is a simple nun.  Besides, she bills herself as Sister Vassa.  The title of her program, for instance, was Coffee with Sister Vassa.

Fair enough.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #274 on: July 19, 2017, 02:27:08 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

Not talking about the Bishops and their apparatus. That's a whole other rabbit trail, but at least it has accrued an unambiguous Tradition. Not talking about sketes either. I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 02:28:20 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Agabus

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #275 on: July 19, 2017, 02:28:31 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

Including GOA bishops.

St. Maria Skobtsova famously insisted she didn't want to belong to a monastery after taking vows.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #276 on: July 19, 2017, 02:29:38 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

You seem to be misunderstanding their purpose. This isn't a rebuke of Sr. Vassa personally, this is a discussion with their flock of an incident and message that has become prominently-known to their flock.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #277 on: July 19, 2017, 02:31:18 PM »
http://pemptousia.com/2014/09/coffee-interview-with-sister-vassa/

Sister Vassa: I see this kind of communicaton as my “obedience“ (or “poslushanie“, as we say in  Russian) and also my obligation. Because my spiritual father and archbishop, Vladyka Mark of Berlin and Germany, both sent me to receive  academic degrees in theology, and later blessed me to take on a teaching position at the University of Vienna. He also blessed me to make these videos, as part  of my academic  activities.




I said nothing that was not published
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #278 on: July 19, 2017, 02:32:50 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

Not talking about the Bishops and their apparatus. That's a whole other rabbit trail, but at least it has accrued an unambiguous Tradition. Not talking about sketes either. I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.


Sr. Dr. Vassa Larin,  if you please.....just because you don't like her, doesn't mean you get to modernize her out of her Sister.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #279 on: July 19, 2017, 02:34:29 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

Not talking about the Bishops and their apparatus. That's a whole other rabbit trail, but at least it has accrued an unambiguous Tradition. Not talking about sketes either. I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.

You mean, like Saint Anthony?
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Alpo

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #280 on: July 19, 2017, 02:34:55 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

You seem to be misunderstanding their purpose. This isn't a rebuke of Sr. Vassa personally, this is a discussion with their flock of an incident and message that has become prominently-known to their flock.

That would be understandable purpose. However if that was the case I don't think bringing Mr. Vassa up would be anyhow necessary. Since they specifically mention her I assume their beef is also though not only with Mr. Vassa.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #281 on: July 19, 2017, 02:41:34 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

Not talking about the Bishops and their apparatus. That's a whole other rabbit trail, but at least it has accrued an unambiguous Tradition. Not talking about sketes either. I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.


Sr. Dr. Vassa Larin,  if you please.....just because you don't like her, doesn't mean you get to modernize her out of her Sister.

I think we may have a case of It isn't what she said rather It's how dare a (knowledgable) woman speak

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #282 on: July 19, 2017, 02:42:54 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

You seem to be misunderstanding their purpose. This isn't a rebuke of Sr. Vassa personally, this is a discussion with their flock of an incident and message that has become prominently-known to their flock.

That would be understandable purpose. However if that was the case I don't think bringing Mr. Vassa up would be anyhow necessary. Since they specifically mention her I assume their beef is also though not only with Mr. Vassa.

Did you even read the statement? It puts its purpose quite plainly. Or are you now wanting a statement that said "Sr. V----" or "the writer of the e-mail, which for Christian charity we won't call by name"?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Alpo

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #283 on: July 19, 2017, 02:50:02 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

You seem to be misunderstanding their purpose. This isn't a rebuke of Sr. Vassa personally, this is a discussion with their flock of an incident and message that has become prominently-known to their flock.

That would be understandable purpose. However if that was the case I don't think bringing Mr. Vassa up would be anyhow necessary. Since they specifically mention her I assume their beef is also though not only with Mr. Vassa.

Did you even read the statement? It puts its purpose quite plainly. Or are you now wanting a statement that said "Sr. V----" or "the writer of the e-mail, which for Christian charity we won't call by name"?

Mr. Vassa is mentioned by name and there are direct quotes from her text. I can't interpret that anything else than rebuking. They don't issue any ecclesial punishment but seem somewhat annoyed at her. If they didn't want to rebuke her they could have issued some general statement on homosexuality without mentioning Mr. Vassa at all.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #284 on: July 19, 2017, 02:56:29 PM »
The text criticizes her for saying:

Quote
that such an entrance into sin is “not a ‘choice’”;

This was actually at the center of something Sister Vassa had said and was being discussed in the other thread, but which I think people were completely misunderstanding. However, I don't know about bringing it up here since that other thread is still closed, and it might be seen as circumventing moderatorial actions. Mods/admins?

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #285 on: July 19, 2017, 03:01:03 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

From what I read she didn't say that homosexuality is God-given gift. She said said that sexuality in general is a God-given gift and that there are problematic aspects in it for both straight and queer. That's hardly controversial or against Orthodox anthropology.

*Why does everyone keeps addressing her as sister? AFAIK at least in Finland nuns are addressed as mothers.

Around here, Mother means an abbess.  Sister is a simple nun.  Besides, she bills herself as Sister Vassa.  The title of her program, for instance, was Coffee with Sister Vassa.

Fair enough.

A minor point: Alpo is correct that tonsured nuns are addressed as "Mother" just as all monks are addressed as "Father" not just the monks who have been ordained as priests (Hieromonks). 
I have never been to an American Orthodox women's monastery so cannot comment as to why only the heugumena is cal "Mother".  In Canada in my limited experience that Has not been the case and women monastics are addressed as "Mother" just as in my visits in Eastern Europe. 
As for "Sister" Vassa's title perhaps she is under 40 years old & the ROCOR keeps to the ancient rule of only finally tonsuring nuns at age 40.  Other jurisdictions are not that strict. 
Or perhaps she is still a novice and her bishop has given her permission to remain a novice until she finishes her studies/research/ work and returns to the convet.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #286 on: July 19, 2017, 03:02:20 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 03:03:34 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #287 on: July 19, 2017, 03:14:49 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

From what I read she didn't say that homosexuality is God-given gift. She said said that sexuality in general is a God-given gift and that there are problematic aspects in it for both straight and queer. That's hardly controversial or against Orthodox anthropology.

*Why does everyone keeps addressing her as sister? AFAIK at least in Finland nuns are addressed as mothers.

Around here, Mother means an abbess.  Sister is a simple nun.  Besides, she bills herself as Sister Vassa.  The title of her program, for instance, was Coffee with Sister Vassa.

Fair enough.

A minor point: Alpo is correct that tonsured nuns are addressed as "Mother" just as all monks are addressed as "Father" not just the monks who have been ordained as priests (Hieromonks). 
I have never been to an American Orthodox women's monastery so cannot comment as to why only the heugumena is cal "Mother".  In Canada in my limited experience that Has not been the case and women monastics are addressed as "Mother" just as in my visits in Eastern Europe. 
As for "Sister" Vassa's title perhaps she is under 40 years old & the ROCOR keeps to the ancient rule of only finally tonsuring nuns at age 40.  Other jurisdictions are not that strict. 
Or perhaps she is still a novice and her bishop has given her permission to remain a novice until she finishes her studies/research/ work and returns to the convet.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassa_Larin


Sr. Dr. Vassa Larin (born Varvara Georgievna Larina, Russian: Варвара Георгиевна Ларина; December 11, 1970 in Nyack, New York, United States) is a Russian Orthodox ryassofor nun, the host of the popular show "Coffee with Sr. Vassa", author of many scholarly articles and a monograph on Byzantine liturgy and theology, and outspoken public intellectual on current issues of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR). She teaches Liturgical Studies at the Catholic Theological Faculty of the University of Vienna in Austria. Sr. Dr. Vassa Larin is a member of two Commissions of the Inter-Council Presence of the Russian Orthodox Church: the Commission on Liturgy and Church Art, and the Commission on Canon Law.




she is neither under 40 nor a novice.


Language usage varies without making one or the other 'wrong'
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 03:15:13 PM by DeniseDenise »
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #288 on: July 19, 2017, 03:16:52 PM »
The need for a public statement at all.

They covered that in their statement too.

Quote
While it is not the norm to reply from the Office of the Holy Synod to materials posted on the internet, in this instance the wide readership of the various resources published by this author, who is an Orthodox monastic, has the potential to lead readers astray and we therefore feel compelled to issue a brief word to the faithful.

If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed.

Obviously, the Synod disagrees.  I think they made the right response.

IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point.

She did.  On the points outlined by her bishops, to whom she should defer and submit.

She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

You seem to be willfully reading the text that way, but that's not what it says.

From what I read she didn't say that homosexuality is God-given gift. She said said that sexuality in general is a God-given gift and that there are problematic aspects in it for both straight and queer. That's hardly controversial or against Orthodox anthropology.

Again, you seem to be willfully reading your thoughts onto the text.  She terms homosexuality as "a gift and a cross".  It may be the latter.  It is certainly not the former.  And of course there are problematic aspects of normal sexuality, but let's not pretend that homosexuality and normal sexuality are equivalents and that both are equally wonderful and problematic.  One is holy and ordained by God within the confines of marriage.  The other is not.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #289 on: July 19, 2017, 03:18:49 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

You seem to be misunderstanding their purpose. This isn't a rebuke of Sr. Vassa personally, this is a discussion with their flock of an incident and message that has become prominently-known to their flock.

That would be understandable purpose. However if that was the case I don't think bringing Mr. Vassa up would be anyhow necessary. Since they specifically mention her I assume their beef is also though not only with Mr. Vassa.

They have to give the erroneous teaching context.  What would be the point of pretending that it materialized out of thin air?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #290 on: July 19, 2017, 03:25:44 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone

What a priceless instance of misdirected knowledge.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #291 on: July 19, 2017, 03:27:13 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone

What a priceless instance of misdirected knowledge.

Since so many early monks were solitaries, not really.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #292 on: July 19, 2017, 03:28:58 PM »
I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

I don't know how to explain the problems with her Christian anthropology and her perception of what homosexuality is any more clearly than the Synod has already done.  What statements of theirs in the vein specifically are you finding hard to impenetrable?

The need for a public statement at all. If anything a simple coffe table discussion with her bishop or something to that effect would have sufficed. IMO she didn't contradict Orthodox faith at any point. She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

You seem to be misunderstanding their purpose. This isn't a rebuke of Sr. Vassa personally, this is a discussion with their flock of an incident and message that has become prominently-known to their flock.

That would be understandable purpose. However if that was the case I don't think bringing Mr. Vassa up would be anyhow necessary. Since they specifically mention her I assume their beef is also though not only with Mr. Vassa.

Did you even read the statement? It puts its purpose quite plainly. Or are you now wanting a statement that said "Sr. V----" or "the writer of the e-mail, which for Christian charity we won't call by name"?

Mr. Vassa is mentioned by name and there are direct quotes from her text. I can't interpret that anything else than rebuking. They don't issue any ecclesial punishment but seem somewhat annoyed at her. If they didn't want to rebuke her they could have issued some general statement on homosexuality without mentioning Mr. Vassa at all.

You are definitely reading emotion into a plain communique. I don't think you could point to any specific phrases of "annoyance."
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #293 on: July 19, 2017, 03:30:17 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone

What a priceless instance of misdirected knowledge.

Since so many early monks were solitaries, not really.

Is there a difference, though, between a solitary hermit and a solitary monastic living in the world?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #294 on: July 19, 2017, 03:32:41 PM »
Is there a difference, though, between a solitary hermit and a solitary monastic living in the world?

Yes, and the latter are also not unheard of in the tradition. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #295 on: July 19, 2017, 03:34:50 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone

What a priceless instance of misdirected knowledge.

Since so many early monks were solitaries, not really.

Well at least you're not pretending words in sacred use can be examined in a vacuum. Yet you're still ignoring most of history and Tradition. The Church's movement away from hermits was neither arbitrary nor obscure. It's very important history and very well documented Tradition.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #296 on: July 19, 2017, 03:36:01 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone

What a priceless instance of misdirected knowledge.

Since so many early monks were solitaries, not really.

Well at least you're not pretending words in sacred use can be examined in a vacuum. Yet you're still ignoring most of history and Tradition. The Church's movement away from hermits was neither arbitrary nor obscure. It's very important history and very well documented Tradition.

So you're saying that hermits don't exist anymore in the Church. Wrong again.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #297 on: July 19, 2017, 03:39:26 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone

What a priceless instance of misdirected knowledge.

Since so many early monks were solitaries, not really.

Well at least you're not pretending words in sacred use can be examined in a vacuum. Yet you're still ignoring most of history and Tradition. The Church's movement away from hermits was neither arbitrary nor obscure. It's very important history and very well documented Tradition.

Popularity of cenobitic monasticism =/= movement away from other forms
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #298 on: July 19, 2017, 03:45:32 PM »
Is there a difference, though, between a solitary hermit and a solitary monastic living in the world?

Yes, and the latter are also not unheard of in the tradition.

Of course.  I never implied otherwise.  Just pressing for clarification.

I don't want to conflate the two issues here.  I'm not bothered if Sister Vassa has a radio program or is part of the Academy.  I am bothered if Orthodox public figures are contending that homosexual desire is "a gift and a cross" or in some way equivalent to normal, heterosexual desire.

The sexual desire of a man for a woman is an inherently good thing that can become twisted and sinful if it occurs outside of its proper and God-ordained context: the Holy Mystery of Marriage.

The sexual desire of a man for a man is an inherently bad and sinful thing that has no proper context in which it is good and blessed and holy.

There seem to be elements of Sr. Vassa's original statement - and of some of the defenses offered for it here and elsewhere - that attempt to deny this truth, or to claim that making such a statement is not the loving thing to do.  I strongly disagree.  I think it is the most loving and helpful thing to do if it is done and offered in the proper spirit.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #299 on: July 19, 2017, 03:45:44 PM »
They have to give the erroneous teaching context.  What would be the point of pretending that it materialized out of thin air?

No need to pretend anything. They could have said something like "There has been some confusion among the faithful and we'd like to clatify that...". Less gossip and judging that way.

Quote
She just didn't want to stone the kid to death.

You seem to be willfully reading the text that way, but that's not what it says.

It was an exaggeration. Sorry, can't help it from time to time. Blame hipsterism or something.

Quote
Again, you seem to be willfully reading your thoughts onto the text.  She terms homosexuality as "a gift and a cross".  It may be the latter.  It is certainly not the former.

IMO she's just saying that sexuality is a gift from God. Since gays are people their sexuality must also be in some level a gift from God. Perhaps in a very twisted and pervert way but still. Hence I don't think she said anything wrong. That's not equating homosexuality and heterosexuality. That's saying to an angsty teenager that God loves you as much as your straight neighbour.

The text criticizes her for saying:

Quote
that such an entrance into sin is “not a ‘choice’”;

This was actually at the center of something Sister Vassa had said

How so?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 03:48:13 PM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #300 on: July 19, 2017, 03:51:43 PM »
Is there a difference, though, between a solitary hermit and a solitary monastic living in the world?

Yes, and the latter are also not unheard of in the tradition.

Of course.  I never implied otherwise.  Just pressing for clarification.

I don't want to conflate the two issues here.  I'm not bothered if Sister Vassa has a radio program or is part of the Academy.  I am bothered if Orthodox public figures are contending that homosexual desire is "a gift and a cross" or in some way equivalent to normal, heterosexual desire.

The sexual desire of a man for a woman is an inherently good thing that can become twisted and sinful if it occurs outside of its proper and God-ordained context: the Holy Mystery of Marriage.

The sexual desire of a man for a man is an inherently bad and sinful thing that has no proper context in which it is good and blessed and holy.

There seem to be elements of Sr. Vassa's original statement - and of some of the defenses offered for it here and elsewhere - that attempt to deny this truth, or to claim that making such a statement is not the loving thing to do.  I strongly disagree.  I think it is the most loving and helpful thing to do if it is done and offered in the proper spirit.

In general, I agree with you.  And there are, to be sure, some elements of Sr Vassa's original statement which give me pause or with which I simply disagree.  But I think other elements are being distorted, in some cases probably unintentionally (it's not the clearest piece of writing) and in other cases probably intentionally (people love to grind their axes when they can). 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #301 on: July 19, 2017, 03:52:54 PM »
No need to pretend anything. They could have said something like "There has been some confusion among the faithful and we'd like to clatify that...". Less gossip and judging that way.

I think that since she is such a public figure and that since the incident has made such headlines (relatively speaking, that is, in the Orthodox world), they had no choice but to cite the specific communique outright.  Especially with ROCOR being such a conservative jurisdiction, and this liberal stance seeming out of step with their basic ethos.

It was an exaggeration. Sorry, can't help it from time to time. Blame hipsterism or something.

It's more than hyperbole.  It's a complete misreading of the text.  No one - including those who oppose Sr. Vassa's point of view - is calling for the condemnation of the kid, or of anyone struggling with the issue of homosexual attraction.

IMO she's just saying that sexuality is a gift from God. Since gays are people their sexuality must also be in some level a gift from God. Perhaps in a very twisted and pervert way but still. Hence I don't think she said anything wrong.

I disagree, for reasons articulated in my previous post.  Homosexual desire is not on any level a gift from God.

Quote
The sexual desire of a man for a woman is an inherently good thing that can become twisted and sinful if it occurs outside of its proper and God-ordained context: the Holy Mystery of Marriage.

The sexual desire of a man for a man is an inherently bad and sinful thing that has no proper context in which it is good and blessed and holy.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #302 on: July 19, 2017, 03:53:36 PM »
Is there a difference, though, between a solitary hermit and a solitary monastic living in the world?

Yes, and the latter are also not unheard of in the tradition.

Of course.  I never implied otherwise.  Just pressing for clarification.

I don't want to conflate the two issues here.  I'm not bothered if Sister Vassa has a radio program or is part of the Academy.  I am bothered if Orthodox public figures are contending that homosexual desire is "a gift and a cross" or in some way equivalent to normal, heterosexual desire.

The sexual desire of a man for a woman is an inherently good thing that can become twisted and sinful if it occurs outside of its proper and God-ordained context: the Holy Mystery of Marriage.

The sexual desire of a man for a man is an inherently bad and sinful thing that has no proper context in which it is good and blessed and holy.

There seem to be elements of Sr. Vassa's original statement - and of some of the defenses offered for it here and elsewhere - that attempt to deny this truth, or to claim that making such a statement is not the loving thing to do.  I strongly disagree.  I think it is the most loving and helpful thing to do if it is done and offered in the proper spirit.

In general, I agree with you.  And there are, to be sure, some elements of Sr Vassa's original statement which give me pause or with which I simply disagree.  But I think other elements are being distorted, in some cases probably unintentionally (it's not the clearest piece of writing) and in other cases probably intentionally (people love to grind their axes when they can).

That may be true.  My chief concern is that the authentic teaching of the Church on human sexuality in general be upheld and not distorted.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #303 on: July 19, 2017, 03:53:44 PM »
It's not a very coherent or convincing piece of writing, for sure. It's a mess. I don't know if it helped the mom in question, but I'm still scratching my head as to why she thought this was something suitable for publication.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Alpo

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #304 on: July 19, 2017, 03:57:09 PM »
Homosexual desire is not on any level a gift from God.

And I agree with that and didn't say anything contrary. And I don't think Mr. Vassa did either.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 03:58:40 PM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #305 on: July 19, 2017, 04:01:57 PM »
Homosexual desire is not on any level a gift from God.

And I agree with that and didn't say anything contrary. And I don't think Mr. Vassa did either.

I keep reading that as "Mister Vassa" and laughing. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #306 on: July 19, 2017, 04:02:41 PM »
Homosexual desire is not on any level a gift from God.

And I agree with that and didn't say anything contrary. And I don't think Mr. Vassa did either.

I keep reading that as "Mister Vassa" and laughing.

Me too...but I was giving the poor Finn a bit of slack.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #307 on: July 19, 2017, 04:04:22 PM »
Is there a difference, though, between a solitary hermit and a solitary monastic living in the world?

Yes, and the latter are also not unheard of in the tradition.

Of course.  I never implied otherwise.  Just pressing for clarification.

I don't want to conflate the two issues here.  I'm not bothered if Sister Vassa has a radio program or is part of the Academy.  I am bothered if Orthodox public figures are contending that homosexual desire is "a gift and a cross" or in some way equivalent to normal, heterosexual desire.

The sexual desire of a man for a woman is an inherently good thing that can become twisted and sinful if it occurs outside of its proper and God-ordained context: the Holy Mystery of Marriage.

The sexual desire of a man for a man is an inherently bad and sinful thing that has no proper context in which it is good and blessed and holy.

There seem to be elements of Sr. Vassa's original statement - and of some of the defenses offered for it here and elsewhere - that attempt to deny this truth, or to claim that making such a statement is not the loving thing to do.  I strongly disagree.  I think it is the most loving and helpful thing to do if it is done and offered in the proper spirit.

In general, I agree with you.  And there are, to be sure, some elements of Sr Vassa's original statement which give me pause or with which I simply disagree.  But I think other elements are being distorted, in some cases probably unintentionally (it's not the clearest piece of writing) and in other cases probably intentionally (people love to grind their axes when they can).

That may be true.  My chief concern is that the authentic teaching of the Church on human sexuality in general be upheld and not distorted.

+1

My own view is that the authentic teaching on and practice of sexuality has (for lack of a better word) "dogmatic", and not merely "moral" or "ethical", importance, and so it's necessary to get it right. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Alpo

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #308 on: July 19, 2017, 04:06:31 PM »
Homosexual desire is not on any level a gift from God.

And I agree with that and didn't say anything contrary. And I don't think Mr. Vassa did either.

I keep reading that as "Mister Vassa" and laughing.

Me too...but I was giving the poor Finn a bit of slack.

LOL! It's past 11PM here by now. Should have logged out hours ago.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #309 on: July 19, 2017, 04:08:21 PM »
So what exactly did Mothet Vassa say wrong? She wrote basically that dating and having sex with people of same sex is a sin and that there are problems with heterosexuality too. This is so scandalous that ROCOR bishops had to make public statement?

The Synod's statement made it clear exactly which element's of her public statement were off base.

I did read the statement and still don't understand. I personally disagree with Mother Vassa's* opinion that homosexuality is pre-determined by biology but IMO it's a bit overkill to a synod to handle a minor issue like this. Otherwise I don't see what would be anyhow controversial with her text.

*Why does everyone keeps addressing her as sister? AFAIK at least in Finland nuns are addressed as mothers.

It's because she's a Rassophore nun.  If she were to  become a Stavrophore nun or were to receive the Great Schema,  she would  then be addressed as "Mother".
Atheists have noetic deficiencies.


Posting on theological matters in your condition is more dangerous than drinking and driving.


Don't believe everything you think.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #310 on: July 19, 2017, 04:10:42 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone

What a priceless instance of misdirected knowledge.

Since so many early monks were solitaries, not really.

Well at least you're not pretending words in sacred use can be examined in a vacuum. Yet you're still ignoring most of history and Tradition. The Church's movement away from hermits was neither arbitrary nor obscure. It's very important history and very well documented Tradition.

So you're saying that hermits don't exist anymore in the Church. Wrong again.

I'm saying 'monos' doesn't comprise some religious mandate to be a hermit. Please read the post I'm responding to.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #311 on: July 19, 2017, 04:13:07 PM »
I'm guessing, since she doesn't belong to a monastery, her only superior would be a bishop.

How can this be? This is not the Orthodox tradition.

There are lots of monks that don't belong to monasteries. Including the bishops.

I understand Denise to be saying Ms. Vassa is a lone monk.
Well, the Greek monos does mean alone

What a priceless instance of misdirected knowledge.

Since so many early monks were solitaries, not really.

Well at least you're not pretending words in sacred use can be examined in a vacuum. Yet you're still ignoring most of history and Tradition. The Church's movement away from hermits was neither arbitrary nor obscure. It's very important history and very well documented Tradition.

Popularity of cenobitic monasticism =/= movement away from other forms

Popular it may be, but also mandated by several Saints with unique authority in the matter. The model of the hermit gave way to sketes and monasteries early on in EO tradition largely due, again, not to popularity but Church mandate. I don't know the case in OO.
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #312 on: July 19, 2017, 04:33:08 PM »
Just a note on language:

@Alpo: There is no abbreviation for 'Mother' (the head of a monastery for women) in English. The abbreviation 'Mr.' is just 'Mister'. Given that this thread touches on LGBTQ... matters, we don't want anyone thinking a monastic has had a sex change operation.

@everyone who has been reading this thread: It was stated earlier in the thread that in Finnish we call all female monastics 'Mother' (äiti). This information is in error. In fact, 'Mother' is reserved for the head of the female monastery (igumenia) and other nuns are called 'Sister' (sisar) in Finnish as in English.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #313 on: July 19, 2017, 04:47:46 PM »
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@everyone who has been reading this thread: It was stated earlier in the thread that in Finnish we call all female monastics 'Mother' (äiti). This information is in error. In fact, 'Mother' is reserved for the head of the female monastery (igumenia) and other nuns are called 'Sister' (sisar) in Finnish as in English.

I believe that's not the case either. For example the news about recently lost nun were referencing to "Äiti Elisabet" i.e. Mother Elisabet despite her not being Abbess of Lintula. I was wrong though since I didn't consider the difference betwern Rassophore and Stavrophore. Of this difference Pravoslavbob kindly notified me. Rassophores ("Viitankantaja" if I'm correct) are indeed Sisters/Brothers in Finland too.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 04:50:13 PM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline FinnJames

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #314 on: July 19, 2017, 04:57:01 PM »
.
@everyone who has been reading this thread: It was stated earlier in the thread that in Finnish we call all female monastics 'Mother' (äiti). This information is in error. In fact, 'Mother' is reserved for the head of the female monastery (igumenia) and other nuns are called 'Sister' (sisar) in Finnish as in English.

I believe that's not the case either. For example the news about recently lost nun were referencing to "Äiti Elisabet" i.e. Mother Elisabet despite her not being Abbess of Lintula. I was wrong though since I didn't consider the difference betwern Rassophore and Stavrophore. Of this difference Pravoslavbob kindly notified me. Rassophores ("Viitankantaja" if I'm correct) are indeed Sisters/Brothers in Finland too.

Here's a link to the Finnish Wikipedia article on nuns, for what it's worth. https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunna#Nunna_ortodoksisessa_kirkossa
And you were quite right about 'mother' while I was wrong.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 05:00:48 PM by FinnJames »