Author Topic: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)  (Read 12024 times)

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #135 on: July 08, 2017, 05:31:48 PM »
As long as you agree with him, he is very pleasant. ;)
God bless!

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #136 on: July 08, 2017, 07:43:50 PM »
He is a graduate of St Tikons who moved to Russia and married someone over there. It is my understanding that US Orthodoxy is a bit too ecumenical for him. You can search his name, Jesse Dominick, and you will probably find a good number of articles that he has either written or translated out of Russian. It should give you a pretty good flavor of what he is about. He is VERY conservative, and quick to denounce anything/anyone that is not. I didn't personally see anything he wrote on this topic, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Thanks for the info.  So then Jesse Dominick is just a traditionalist writer who actually has nothing at all to do with this story and Augustin was just being flip.
he's the guy behind the site that initially published the fake news. He admitted as much on Sr Vassa's FB page.

However much I might disagree with Sr. Vassa, he was absolutely wrong to do that then.  Thanks for the info.

  How do you feel about Sister Vassa's statements concerning homosexual sin and culpability
Confused and irrelevant to the point she was trying to make, tbh, but not "heretical." I start to tune out when psychological studies or definitions are used as evidence for something, outside of like a purely behavioral study.

Okay, thanks.  How about the second part of the question?  How do you feel the Church should be addressing this issue?

He is a graduate of St Tikons who moved to Russia and married someone over there. It is my understanding that US Orthodoxy is a bit too ecumenical for him. You can search his name, Jesse Dominick, and you will probably find a good number of articles that he has either written or translated out of Russian. It should give you a pretty good flavor of what he is about. He is VERY conservative, and quick to denounce anything/anyone that is not. I didn't personally see anything he wrote on this topic, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

I bumped into him at Saint Tikhon's once. He had a "W! 2004" bumper sticker on his car and talked like a dudebro ("this synaxarion is really sweet, man") but was pleasant enough.

That's strike one and strike two, right there.  I'd be willing to bet his feelings on Miaphysites would constitute strike three.

As long as you agree with him, he is very pleasant. ;)

Sounds like your typical oc.net poster!  ;D
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #137 on: July 08, 2017, 07:51:57 PM »
He posted that two part anti-OO rant to the Saint Tikhon's group on Facebook a few weeks back.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #138 on: July 08, 2017, 07:55:05 PM »
He posted that two part anti-OO rant to the Saint Tikhon's group on Facebook a few weeks back.
Did he say anything of substance?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 07:55:19 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #139 on: July 08, 2017, 07:56:41 PM »
So he's culturally conservative? That doesn't make sense. The story he manufactured serves to make Ancient Faith Radio look like a reactionary organization oppressing gay-friendly Orthodox. Maybe he's just not that clever?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #140 on: July 08, 2017, 07:57:06 PM »
He posted that two part anti-OO rant to the Saint Tikhon's group on Facebook a few weeks back.
Did he say anything of substance?

Is it possible to say anything anti-OO of substance?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #141 on: July 08, 2017, 07:57:59 PM »
He posted that two part anti-OO rant to the Saint Tikhon's group on Facebook a few weeks back.
Did he say anything of substance?

The articles were garbage and have been discussed on this forum.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline augustin717

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #142 on: July 08, 2017, 08:01:41 PM »
So he's culturally conservative? That doesn't make sense. The story he manufactured serves to make Ancient Faith Radio look like a reactionary organization oppressing gay-friendly Orthodox. Maybe he's just not that clever?
I think he isn't all that clever . But definitely a bona fide conservative.
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Offline RobS

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #143 on: July 08, 2017, 08:09:22 PM »
talked like a dudebro ("this synaxarion is really sweet, man")
Hey man what you got against my kin?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 08:09:36 PM by nothing »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #144 on: July 08, 2017, 10:02:45 PM »
He posted that two part anti-OO rant to the Saint Tikhon's group on Facebook a few weeks back.
Did he say anything of substance?

LOL!  Right on cue.  Rakovsky is always interested in anything anti-OO.  It's in his programming.

"What is wrong with me asking if he posted anything of substance, Antonious?  I believe that we should be able to discuss the differences between our communions in a respectful fashion."
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #145 on: July 08, 2017, 10:09:25 PM »
He posted that two part anti-OO rant to the Saint Tikhon's group on Facebook a few weeks back.

And strike three!  Called it!



So he's culturally conservative? That doesn't make sense. The story he manufactured serves to make Ancient Faith Radio look like a reactionary organization oppressing gay-friendly Orthodox. Maybe he's just not that clever?

Ever met a dudebro that struck you as particularly cunning?

I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #146 on: July 08, 2017, 11:47:22 PM »
How do you feel the Church should be addressing this issue?

Bare bones, weakness-exposed, standard-form arguments would be a good start at the abstract theological level.

As for the pastoral level, I don't know yet. Sister Vassa's approach is one of the better ones I've heard-- at least it attempts to practically deal with lived reality in the church, in the antistructural village way people have traditionally worked things out in Orthodoxy over the years. but I find it unsatisfying. In truth, it reminds me of an Oscar Wilde quote: "The worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves..."

But this is not an indictment of Sister Vassa, rather the rhetorical confines in which she is forced to function.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #147 on: July 09, 2017, 12:52:41 AM »
How do you feel the Church should be addressing this issue?

Bare bones, weakness-exposed, standard-form arguments would be a good start at the abstract theological level.

Give a brief example.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline hecma925

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #148 on: July 09, 2017, 01:43:29 AM »
I don't like her voice.  I got through 3 minutes of an episode once. 

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline hecma925

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #149 on: July 09, 2017, 01:49:48 AM »
Anyway, pastoral advice from someone that's not a pastor should be taken with several grains of rock salt.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #150 on: July 09, 2017, 02:12:37 AM »
I don't like her voice.  I got through 3 minutes of an episode once.

Thanks for saying it. Yes, I've found her somewhat offputting and flippant.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #151 on: July 09, 2017, 02:29:42 AM »
How do you feel the Church should be addressing this issue?

Bare bones, weakness-exposed, standard-form arguments would be a good start at the abstract theological level.

Give a brief example.
Give me a typical argument about the church's position and I will convert it for you.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #152 on: July 09, 2017, 02:42:32 AM »
How do you feel the Church should be addressing this issue?

Bare bones, weakness-exposed, standard-form arguments would be a good start at the abstract theological level.

Give a brief example.
Give me a typical argument about the church's position and I will convert it for you.

So your only concern with the Church's position is form? And you don't know the Church's position? Good; I can safely ignore your shrill input here.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #153 on: July 09, 2017, 02:52:09 AM »
How do you feel the Church should be addressing this issue?

Bare bones, weakness-exposed, standard-form arguments would be a good start at the abstract theological level.

Give a brief example.
Give me a typical argument about the church's position and I will convert it for you.

So your only concern with the Church's position is form? And you don't know the Church's position? Good; I can safely ignore your shrill input here.
Not merely form. The arguments modern churchmen typically put forward do not include an honest presentation of the best objections to those arguments. They do not re-create opposing arguments to be better than they were when they were articulated by their creators. They do not go out of their way to expose their worries with their own positions. And they do not go out of their way to be perfectly understood at each stage of argumentation.

In short, their is a great deal of intellectual humility that is not often present.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #154 on: July 09, 2017, 03:06:25 AM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #155 on: July 09, 2017, 03:42:47 AM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 03:44:16 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #156 on: July 09, 2017, 03:57:23 AM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Go ahead.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #157 on: July 09, 2017, 06:34:22 AM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.
Does that include the ((men)) of both sexes? Lol!

4 pages deep and you people are still trying to push queerdom on three year olds.

Gives a break with this nonsense. ::)
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline FinnJames

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #158 on: July 09, 2017, 07:11:36 AM »
I don't like her voice.  I got through 3 minutes of an episode once.

Oddly enough, her tone sounds much milder when she's speaking Russian.

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #159 on: July 09, 2017, 07:22:14 AM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #160 on: July 09, 2017, 11:18:40 AM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.
At the academic level there is a 'fight' that occurs, though it doesn't have to be a malicious one!
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #161 on: July 09, 2017, 11:38:49 AM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.
At the academic level there is a 'fight' that occurs, though it doesn't have to be a malicious one!
Teaching three yr olds sodomy is "normal" is not malicious?
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #162 on: July 09, 2017, 11:53:16 AM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.
At the academic level there is a 'fight' that occurs, though it doesn't have to be a malicious one!
Teaching three yr olds sodomy is "normal" is not malicious?
3 year olds engaging in scholarly theological discourse
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 11:54:01 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #163 on: July 09, 2017, 12:11:37 PM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.
At the academic level there is a 'fight' that occurs, though it doesn't have to be a malicious one!
Teaching three yr olds sodomy is "normal" is not malicious?
3 year olds engaging in scholarly theological discourse

At least they're willing to. What's your phobia? If you can't, that's fine, but what you've done is claim big things and deliver nothing.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #164 on: July 09, 2017, 02:09:29 PM »
Bare bones, weakness-exposed, standard-form arguments would be a good start at the abstract theological level.

Flesh this out a bit for me so we don't once again get bogged down quibbling over terminology.  The rest is pretty straightforward, but what is intended here by "weakness-exposed arguments"?  Who's weakness precisely is exposed?

As for the pastoral level, I don't know yet. Sister Vassa's approach is one of the better ones I've heard-- at least it attempts to practically deal with lived reality in the church, in the antistructural village way people have traditionally worked things out in Orthodoxy over the years.

"Tell your son to bring his boyfriends home" seems an expression of the lived reality of the Church to you?

but I find it unsatisfying.

How so?

In truth, it reminds me of an Oscar Wilde quote: "The worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves..."

Who exactly are the slaves in the scenario?  How is "being kind to them" in this instance detrimental?

But this is not an indictment of Sister Vassa, rather the rhetorical confines in which she is forced to function.

Meaning what?  Because she is forced to at least pay lip service to the notion that living a homosexual lifestyle is inherently sinful?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #165 on: July 09, 2017, 02:20:29 PM »
They do not go out of their way to expose their worries with their own positions.

Please explain why an Orthodox Christian pastor should find the Church's position on homosexuality worrisome.

It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

In keeping with this call for clarity in the light of day, clearly stated, what are the various positions on the subject within the Church as you see them?  Which do you find to be meritorious?

And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.
Does that include the ((men)) of both sexes? Lol!

4 pages deep and you people are still trying to push queerdom on three year olds.

Gives a break with this nonsense. ::)

+1

The bolded bit is the most disturbing and sickening by far.  But around here, someone who views children still in their single digits as innocent and denies that they are sexual beings is supposed to be "creepy".  ::)

And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.

Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean backing off of the idea that an actively homosexual lifestyle or relationship could only ever be viewed as sinful in the eyes of the Church.

And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.
At the academic level there is a 'fight' that occurs, though it doesn't have to be a malicious one!
Teaching three yr olds sodomy is "normal" is not malicious?
3 year olds engaging in scholarly theological discourse

More like three year olds sexualized by perverse academics in the interests of moving the Church to a place where it can validate the world's present teachings on homosexuality.

And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.
At the academic level there is a 'fight' that occurs, though it doesn't have to be a malicious one!
Teaching three yr olds sodomy is "normal" is not malicious?
3 year olds engaging in scholarly theological discourse

At least they're willing to. What's your phobia? If you can't, that's fine, but what you've done is claim big things and deliver nothing.

+1

We're all waiting for the big reveal here.  I know there's got to be something more to your argument than what's been offered so far.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 02:24:10 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline FinnJames

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #166 on: July 09, 2017, 02:30:48 PM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.

Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean backing off of the idea that an actively homosexual lifestyle or relationship could only ever be viewed as sinful in the eyes of the Church.

Nor do I claim that it does or should. Don't read in statements that are not there. But what remains is how the Church and homosexuals are going to deal with each other. In my view, it would be a tragedy if either 'side' simply shut the door on the other and walked away.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #167 on: July 09, 2017, 02:53:48 PM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.

Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean backing off of the idea that an actively homosexual lifestyle or relationship could only ever be viewed as sinful in the eyes of the Church.

Nor do I claim that it does or should. Don't read in statements that are not there. But what remains is how the Church and homosexuals are going to deal with each other. In my view, it would be a tragedy if either 'side' simply shut the door on the other and walked away.

Okay.  So once we articulate the truth that we both agree upon above - that an actively homosexual lifestyle or relationship could only ever be viewed as sinful in the eyes of the Church - where do we go from there in your point of view?  How would that be different than the pastoral approach(es) that the Church has applied on this issue for the past 2000 years?  What should the place of, say, a homosexual couple be in the Orthodox Church?  What about a young person who wants to start dating people of the same sex as in Sr. Vassa's scenario?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #168 on: July 09, 2017, 03:12:51 PM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.
At the academic level there is a 'fight' that occurs, though it doesn't have to be a malicious one!
Teaching three yr olds sodomy is "normal" is not malicious?
3 year olds engaging in scholarly theological discourse
Theological?  Lol! ;D

Tell me nick, seriously, what kind of "theological" evidence do you have to support the notion of 3yrd olds being sexual beings?


Yea, get back to me on that one Mr deep-thinker. 8)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 03:13:11 PM by Charles Martel »
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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #169 on: July 09, 2017, 03:18:17 PM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.

Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean backing off of the idea that an actively homosexual lifestyle or relationship could only ever be viewed as sinful in the eyes of the Church.

Nor do I claim that it does or should. Don't read in statements that are not there. But what remains is how the Church and homosexuals are going to deal with each other. In my view, it would be a tragedy if either 'side' simply shut the door on the other and walked away.
How does the church deal with every other sinner?

Why do sodomites feel they're any special?

Sorry, the Church does not dabble in special rights and legislation that your secular govt's appease you with.

As for the door, Christ said he stands at the door and knocks. The rest is up to you.


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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #170 on: July 09, 2017, 03:21:47 PM »
Quote
The bolded bit is the most disturbing and sickening by far.  But around here, someone who views children still in their single digits as innocent and denies that they are sexual beings is supposed to be "creepy".  ::)
Wow. Well, what else do you expect from pederasts? This kind of thought comes from people witha seriously disordered moral compass.


Liberalism truly is a mental disorder. >:(
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #171 on: July 09, 2017, 03:51:19 PM »
And what's an example of what this extra formality on their part would accomplish in regard to homosexuality and the Church?
It would allow the arguments for/against the various positions to shine in the light of day, without the shrouds of polemic. So that both sides could fight like men.

Fight? Fighting is part of the problem, I think. What's needed is for both 'sides' to listen and speak to each other with love (no homo  ;)). As far as I can determine, there are a lot more priests and a lot more homosexuals doing just that than either 'side' wants to admit, publicly at least.

Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean backing off of the idea that an actively homosexual lifestyle or relationship could only ever be viewed as sinful in the eyes of the Church.

Nor do I claim that it does or should. Don't read in statements that are not there. But what remains is how the Church and homosexuals are going to deal with each other. In my view, it would be a tragedy if either 'side' simply shut the door on the other and walked away.

Okay.  So once we articulate the truth that we both agree upon above - that an actively homosexual lifestyle or relationship could only ever be viewed as sinful in the eyes of the Church - where do we go from there in your point of view?  How would that be different than the pastoral approach(es) that the Church has applied on this issue for the past 2000 years?  What should the place of, say, a homosexual couple be in the Orthodox Church?  What about a young person who wants to start dating people of the same sex as in Sr. Vassa's scenario?

Good questions. First of all, if a homosexual couple is not having sex with each other or with anyone else but is in other ways supporting each other as heterosexual couples do, then I don't see why that couple should be treated any differently than any other couple in the parish. The wives of several heterosexual couples in my parish are noticeably pregnant, which does sort of give things away. But there really is no reason to assume that a childless couple, heterosexual or homosexual, are having sex. After all, we all go to confession and presumably all of us confess honestly and repentantly.

Presumably there must be at least a few homosexual monastics living chaste lives in same-sex communities, so I see no reason to suppose that homosexual lay people shouldn't be able to follow a similar discipline in couples.  I see no reason why the Church should bless these unions, but I also see no reason why the Church should forbid these couples from forming legal civil unions.

The question of young people is a difficult one, but it is the one the mother asked Sr Vassa about. And note that this was a question she did not feel comfortable bringing to her priest (for fear of 'outing' her son, if I understood her letter correctly), which does say something about how the Church is perceived by its lay members.

Although most of the commenters here have assumed that Sr Vassa envisions a 14-year-old as dating, a careful reading of her post shows that she talks about dating as a possibility in the child's future. Unless the boy in question himself wants to follow the Church's teachings or his parents lock him in his room until he reaches adulthood, I don't see how they can stop him from dating someone of the same sex at some point. Whether for this lad dating is going to mean hopping into bed for a quicky or socializing and exploring how to relate to another individual he cares about depends largely on the advice he gets from his parents--and his Church. I don't see how this differs at all from the situation of heterosexual young people.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 03:56:59 PM by FinnJames »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #172 on: July 09, 2017, 04:12:49 PM »
Thanks for the thoughtful post, FinnJames. I do sense you're talking for granted such young men will form couples some day, should be allowed to and allowed to prepare for it socially. If I'm correct, what makes you feel this way?
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #173 on: July 09, 2017, 04:17:34 PM »
Thanks for the thoughtful post, FinnJames. I do sense you're talking for granted such young men will form couples some day, should be allowed to and allowed to prepare for it socially. If I'm correct, what makes you feel this way?

As you already know, this is the sort of couple I live in. Unfortunately, my partner is not Orthodox, so my parish doesn't have to worry about how to treat us.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #174 on: July 09, 2017, 04:27:08 PM »
But what remains is how the Church and homosexuals are going to deal with each other. In my view, it would be a tragedy if either 'side' simply shut the door on the other and walked away.
The same way as with other fornicators.  Or did you expect a special treatment by the Church of those who fornicate with people of the same sex?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 04:31:38 PM by Sharbel »
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #175 on: July 09, 2017, 04:28:54 PM »
I don't like her voice.  I got through 3 minutes of an episode once.
Thanks for saying it. Yes, I've found her somewhat offputting and flippant.
Having attended a talk by Sr. Vassa, what I found off putting was that she blathered for over 1h and I could not figure out what point she was trying to make or whether the talk had any theme.  On the other hand, I cherish her daily reflections.
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #176 on: July 09, 2017, 04:41:34 PM »
But what remains is how the Church and homosexuals are going to deal with each other. In my view, it would be a tragedy if either 'side' simply shut the door on the other and walked away.
The same way as with other fornicators.  Or did you expect a special treatment by the Church of those who fornicate with people of the same sex?

I'll do you the courtesy of assuming you posted before reading post #171 in this thread.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #177 on: July 09, 2017, 04:47:16 PM »
Good questions. First of all, if a homosexual couple is not having sex with each other or with anyone else but is in other ways supporting each other as heterosexual couples do, then I don't see why that couple should be treated any differently than any other couple in the parish.
Because people of the same sex do not form couples, but should rather be treated as any other single people who struggle with a sexual vice.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #178 on: July 09, 2017, 04:47:32 PM »
Thanks for the thoughtful post, FinnJames. I do sense you're talking for granted such young men will form couples some day, should be allowed to and allowed to prepare for it socially. If I'm correct, what makes you feel this way?

As you already know, this is the sort of couple I live in. Unfortunately, my partner is not Orthodox, so my parish doesn't have to worry about how to treat us.

I do know. So are you extrapolating from your own experience, and saying couples is inevitable? By the same token, that homosexual lifestyle of some sort is inevitable? That a lifetime of desire for gay company is inevitable? I do respect your opinion. I certainly have no great reason to trust my own.
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline PJ26

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Re: Coffee with (Removed - Ancient Faith Radio)
« Reply #179 on: July 09, 2017, 04:53:48 PM »
Regarding #171:

Is the hypothetical homosexual couple living chastely explaining their situation to everyone?  How are they presenting themselves to the community - as buddies, roommates, or as an actual "couple?"  If as a couple, without making known how they are living, I could see how this could be a source of scandal particularly if they are going to Communion.  I don't think it's equivalent to homosexual monks in a monastery.  I would say the same thing if the couple were heterosexual.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 04:54:13 PM by PJ26 »