Author Topic: I hope this belongs here....  (Read 2127 times)

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Offline Sharbel

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2017, 09:34:21 AM »
@Sharbel and just as a corrective footnote: It is not true that Germans still sing the "über alles in der Welt" in the national anthem.
I stand corrected.  When did it change?


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Offline Sharbel

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2017, 09:38:18 AM »
However, after Vatican II some RC theologian like  Hans Urs von Balthasar is more open mind. He said "we must see that hell is not an object that is 'full' or 'empty' of human individuals, but a possibility that is not 'created' by God but in any case by the free individuals who choose it".
Balthasar and others, like Rahner, are heretics who don't believe in the redemption of mankind by Christ because there really is no sin, brutally summarizing their theology.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2017, 10:37:19 AM »
However, after Vatican II some RC theologian like  Hans Urs von Balthasar is more open mind. He said "we must see that hell is not an object that is 'full' or 'empty' of human individuals, but a possibility that is not 'created' by God but in any case by the free individuals who choose it".
Balthasar and others, like Rahner, are heretics who don't believe in the redemption of mankind by Christ because there really is no sin, brutally summarizing their theology.
You obviously haven't read any Balthasar. He most definitively believes in sin and Christ's redemption of mankind. 
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Offline Almost_Orthodox

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2017, 11:45:00 AM »
Two things I really want to avoid as I look towards the East:  Judgmental Animus against the Roman Church within my own heart, and to not say that which is untrue about them.
Never, ever convert because of animosity!  Rather convert because of Truth, Beauty and Goodness.  Do not do it only for your own sake, but for His sake!

Excellent advice!

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2017, 04:45:33 PM »
Almost_Orthodox:

Do you read any work by  Hans Urs von Balthasar ? I heard that his view are salvation is very similar to Eastern Orthodox Church.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2017, 04:46:49 PM »
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Almost_Orthodox

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2017, 10:37:28 PM »
Could I interrupt the general nastiness and bickering to ask if you guys think I should post that blog, modify it somewhat, or drop it as a bad idea.

Drop it as a bad idea.  It is too much caricature.  Can you find people like that in the Latin Church yes, but you can find them in the Eastern Churches as well.  However, I don't think they are the majority in any Church.

No, I don't think it's a bad idea, and here's why:

From a paper on Fatima by Orthodox. org:

On the occasion of the revelation in 1925, the so-called “Great Promise” was given; this promise states: “I promise to assist at the hour of death with the graces necessary for salvation all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months, go to confession, receive Holy Communion, say the Rosary, and keep me company for fifteen minutes while meditating on the fifteen mysteries of the Rosary, with the object of making reparation to me.”  This promise clarifies the Communion of Reparation of the First Saturdays which was mentioned in the third appearance in July, 1917.

Now first of all, this reception of communion in Roman Catholic churches is one of the two conditions for the conversion of Russia; but this is obviously unacceptable for Orthodox Christians. Further, the idea that the Theotokos could give one at death “all the graces necessary for salvation” entails a teaching which is completely foreign and contrary to Orthodoxy. The view of grace presented here is the very materialistic one associated with indulgences, as if grace were a commodity which could be stored and distributed; but grace is God’s uncreated energy at work in
the world, not something that can be handed out by the saints in exchange for our good works. Our calling as Christians is to follow our Lord Jesus Christ in obedience to God in every aspect and moment of our lives; that obedience, possible only with the grace which comes from the new life in Christ which we receive in Baptism, brings us into a new relationship to God. To think that one could purchase one’s salvation by performing a few pious acts on five consecutive Saturdays trivializes the whole Christian life and makes a mockery of our Lord’s life, death, and resurrection.
 

(Which is my point exactly in my blog.  Now try telling anyone who is Roman, with whom you are "in communion," that you don't accept the promises of Fatima for these reasons and watch the steam start coming out of their ears!  Yet whenever I engage with my Roman friends, I am expected to agree to all these visions and visionaries because I am "Catholic.")

In point of fact, the First Saturdays are another instance of the parallelism between the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Sacred Heart of Jesus. In the seventeenth century Margaret-Mary Alacoque received this promise about the Sacred Heart of Jesus by special revelation: “In the greatness of the mercy of my Heart, its all powerful love will give to all those who receive Communion on the first Friday of every month for nine consecutive months, the grace of full repentance that they shall not die under my displeasure nor without receiving the sacraments, and that my Heart shall be their sure refuge at that last hour.

Honestly, I think I have a point to make in the blog post and I don't think I am wrong, based on what I just posted from an Orthodox site.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:38:22 PM by Almost_Orthodox »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2017, 10:47:50 PM »
Again, I'm sorry you got jumped by RCs. Maybe you could wait a while and see if more Orthodox weigh in.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Sharbel

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2017, 10:51:08 PM »
Bishop Barron on Hans Urs von Balthasar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqSenlCcFws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1RUtNmsHWU
Ralph Martin on Bp. Barron's heretical, unscriptural, untraditional Balthasarian opinions: https://is.gd/zjCdLW
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Offline Diego

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2017, 11:04:03 PM »
ALMOST ORTHODOX, that is a FASCINATING response! That sort of thing with indulgences is EXACTLY what drove Luther so crazy, to the point of being apoplectic with rage. Now, I only wish that he had made contact with His Beatitude (is that the correct designation?) Pope Jeremiah of Constantinople, instead of dying in 1546, and then the Tubingen theologians waited until 1576! If only they had talked in 1526, perhaps! This is when things had not gotten so extremely hateful, as they eventually did! The disputatious Renaissance pushed Luther to extremes (reading his communications with Henry VIII, and Thomas More's responses [under a pseudonym], makes for an unpleasant afternoon!), I think. The man already had a temper (Luther). If perhaps Luther and Melanchthon had talked to the East early on, things might have worked out better for the Reformation in Western Europe. This is NOT to say the East and Lutherans would have TOTALLY agreed, but you all might have restrained Luther's more, shall we say, intemperate attitudes. Perhaps the Church of Sweden/Finland, so close to Russia, might have become the norm, rather than Germany.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 11:06:38 PM by Diego »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2017, 11:14:11 PM »
Bishop Barron on Hans Urs von Balthasar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqSenlCcFws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1RUtNmsHWU
Ralph Martin on Bp. Barron's heretical, unscriptural, untraditional Balthasarian opinions: https://is.gd/zjCdLW

Well that was more than a little pathetic, in my opinion. Using "narrow is the way" as a proof text so broadly gets a little hairy when we consider the eagerness Rome has always exhibited to annex Christendom.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Diego

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2017, 11:35:28 PM »
I am sorry. Correction: PATRIARCH Jeremiah of Constantinople.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 11:36:20 PM by Diego »

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2017, 08:56:01 AM »
It is a bad idea, but don't take my advice.  Go show this to your pastor and get his approval. 
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Offline Almost_Orthodox

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2017, 09:21:59 AM »
Again, I'm sorry you got jumped by RCs. Maybe you could wait a while and see if more Orthodox weigh in.

In retrospect, Porter, what bothers me the most is that back between 1999 and 2001, when I was actively reading things like the Early Fathers, books on the Early Church, etc., and going to Great Vespers on Saturday night at Christ the Savior OCA, the priest there didn't take my interest and dig into it a bit to find out what was going on.  He naturally assumed that I was going to eventually convert to Orthodoxy rather than winding up as an Eastern Catholic

Now this is partly my fault for not digging deeper, but at the same time, what does a life-long ignorant Protestant know of these things and the vast differences that  exist between Eastern and Western theological approaches?  I was mostly reading Roman Catholic stuff, which is intellectually impressive, but I had no source for Orthodox input, including books and tapes. And my thinking was very Western and needed to be guided in a different direction.

It wasn't until seminary that I began to really understand that there are some things right now that are serious points of contention. I'm not comfortable calling them heresies, but from the standpoint of the Ante-Nicene Fathers' teaching, they are certainly heterodox.

Meeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaah......one more bad decision in a life of making horrible decisions.  Good grief, when will I EVER learn????

Offline Sharbel

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2017, 10:06:27 AM »
Good grief, when will I EVER learn? ???
When you die.  Welcome to the human race!  ;)
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Offline Anthony1986

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2017, 02:52:24 PM »
Almost_Orthodox:

Where is your blog? Do you might to share with us?
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2017, 04:04:43 PM »
Quote
The Church was united, it just wasn't necessarily the group you have in mind.

Quote
The Oriental Orthodox Church is the Church.


Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2017, 04:53:22 PM »
From the World Apostolate of Fatima:

Our Lady expressed the need for reparation of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, “which is already much offended,” and of her Immaculate Heart. In the apparition of July 13, 1917, Our Lady said, “I shall come to ask for…the Communion of Reparation on the first Saturdays.”  She came expressly to request this devotion when she appeared to Sister Lucia on December 10, 1925, in Pontevedra, Spain, where she was preparing to start her religious life.

The Motives for the Devotion
While Sister Lucia was in the chapel with Our Lord during part of the night of May 29-30, 1930, He explained the motivation for the devotion. This explanation answered the question posed by her confessor about why the number should be 5 Saturdays and not 9 to correspond to the 9 First Fridays, or 7 to correspond with Our Lady’s 7 sorrows.
There are 5 ways in which people offend and blaspheme against The Immaculate Heart of Mary:
1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
2. Against Her perpetual virginity – that She had relations with Joseph and had other children.
3. Against Her Divine Maternity, refusing at the same time to accept Her as Mother of all Mankind – denying that She is the Mother of God and our Mother.
4. The implantation into children’s hearts of indifference, contempt and even hate against our Immaculate Mother.
5. Insults directed against Her sacred images –displays of indifference or ridicule, and the infliction of damage to them.

The essential elements of the practice of the devotion of the 1st Saturday Communions of Reparation
With the intention of making reparation for offenses committed against The Immaculate Heart of Mary:
Go to Confession.
Receive Holy Communion worthily.
Pray five decades of the Rosary.
Keep Our Lady company for 15 minutes while meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary.

The Great Promise
Our Lady promised to assist all those who would practice the devotion on the first Saturday of five consecutive months with the graces necessary for salvation at the hour of their death.

Promise not a guarantee of heaven
It would be a serious mistake to think that those who practice the devotion on five consecutive First Saturdays are guaranteed passage through the pearly gates when the moment of their death arrives.  Our cooperation with grace is always required.

A Life-Long Devotion, not merely five First Saturdays – a requirement of Christian Charity
The promise associated with the practice of the devotion on five consecutive First Saturdays has been mistakenly construed by many to mean that, once one has completed a series of five in succession, they have accomplished the practice of the devotion – that they are finished.  This was not Our Lady’s intention in making the promise, and has resulted in a far fewer people practicing the devotion’s than are necessary to fulfill her request.  This is one reason why wars, famines and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father have increased rather than abated.

The essence of genuine Christian Charity
Genuine Christian Charity involves placing the good of others before ourselves.  If we practice the devotion only to the extent necessary to merit the promise for ourselves, our Christian Charity is seriously lacking.
We ought to look at it this way:  For how many others can I merit the promise during the remainder of my life? Each time we complete a series of five successive First Saturdays we can ask Our Lady to apply the promise merited to a soul in need.  Just think of how many souls would become beneficiaries of our life-long practice.  This is Christian Charity in action.  And as for ourselves, can there be any doubt that, if we gift our merited promises to so many others, Our Lady will provide one for us?

https://wafusa.org/first-saturday-devotion/
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2017, 06:28:43 PM »
Quote
The Church was united, it just wasn't necessarily the group you have in mind.

Quote
The Oriental Orthodox Church is the Church.



True martyr, fake story.  Happy feast day regardless! 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2017, 09:49:13 PM »
The Great Promise
Our Lady promised to assist all those who would practice the devotion on the first Saturday of five consecutive months with the graces necessary for salvation at the hour of their death.

Promise not a guarantee of heaven
It would be a serious mistake to think that those who practice the devotion on five consecutive First Saturdays are guaranteed passage through the pearly gates when the moment of their death arrives.  Our cooperation with grace is always required.

A Life-Long Devotion, not merely five First Saturdays – a requirement of Christian Charity
The promise associated with the practice of the devotion on five consecutive First Saturdays has been mistakenly construed by many to mean that, once one has completed a series of five in succession, they have accomplished the practice of the devotion – that they are finished.  This was not Our Lady’s intention in making the promise, and has resulted in a far fewer people practicing the devotion’s than are necessary to fulfill her request.  This is one reason why wars, famines and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father have increased rather than abated.
Isn't it odd that Our Lady handed down these devotions in such a way that she needs someone else to explain what she REALLY meant by this promise and the Brown Scapular promises, etc.?
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Offline Almost_Orthodox

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2017, 11:07:20 PM »
Almost_Orthodox:

Where is your blog? Do you might to share with us?

Well, I haven't quite gotten the hang of how to get you to my home page, so I will link you to my first post and you can navigate from there hopefully.

https://http4281.wordpress.com/2016/11/04/at-home-with-jesus/

There's an archive section at the bottom of the page that will let you search by month on my posts.  Some of them will no doubt have a tad of controversy to them as I am trying to work through some difficult theology.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 11:08:29 PM by Almost_Orthodox »

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2017, 03:06:35 AM »
Almost_Orthodox:

Where is your blog? Do you might to share with us?

Well, I haven't quite gotten the hang of how to get you to my home page, so I will link you to my first post and you can navigate from there hopefully.

https://http4281.wordpress.com/2016/11/04/at-home-with-jesus/

There's an archive section at the bottom of the page that will let you search by month on my posts.  Some of them will no doubt have a tad of controversy to them as I am trying to work through some difficult theology.

Thank you
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Arachne

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2017, 03:09:07 AM »
Well, I haven't quite gotten the hang of how to get you to my home page

Have you tried using the 'Home' link?
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2017, 03:37:05 AM »
From the World Apostolate of Fatima:

Our Lady expressed the need for reparation of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, “which is already much offended,” and of her Immaculate Heart. In the apparition of July 13, 1917, Our Lady said, “I shall come to ask for…the Communion of Reparation on the first Saturdays.”  She came expressly to request this devotion when she appeared to Sister Lucia on December 10, 1925, in Pontevedra, Spain, where she was preparing to start her religious life.

The Motives for the Devotion
While Sister Lucia was in the chapel with Our Lord during part of the night of May 29-30, 1930, He explained the motivation for the devotion. This explanation answered the question posed by her confessor about why the number should be 5 Saturdays and not 9 to correspond to the 9 First Fridays, or 7 to correspond with Our Lady’s 7 sorrows.
There are 5 ways in which people offend and blaspheme against The Immaculate Heart of Mary:
1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
2. Against Her perpetual virginity – that She had relations with Joseph and had other children.
3. Against Her Divine Maternity, refusing at the same time to accept Her as Mother of all Mankind – denying that She is the Mother of God and our Mother.
4. The implantation into children’s hearts of indifference, contempt and even hate against our Immaculate Mother.
5. Insults directed against Her sacred images –displays of indifference or ridicule, and the infliction of damage to them.

The essential elements of the practice of the devotion of the 1st Saturday Communions of Reparation
With the intention of making reparation for offenses committed against The Immaculate Heart of Mary:
Go to Confession.
Receive Holy Communion worthily.
Pray five decades of the Rosary.
Keep Our Lady company for 15 minutes while meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary.

The Great Promise
Our Lady promised to assist all those who would practice the devotion on the first Saturday of five consecutive months with the graces necessary for salvation at the hour of their death.

Promise not a guarantee of heaven
It would be a serious mistake to think that those who practice the devotion on five consecutive First Saturdays are guaranteed passage through the pearly gates when the moment of their death arrives.  Our cooperation with grace is always required.

A Life-Long Devotion, not merely five First Saturdays – a requirement of Christian Charity
The promise associated with the practice of the devotion on five consecutive First Saturdays has been mistakenly construed by many to mean that, once one has completed a series of five in succession, they have accomplished the practice of the devotion – that they are finished.  This was not Our Lady’s intention in making the promise, and has resulted in a far fewer people practicing the devotion’s than are necessary to fulfill her request.  This is one reason why wars, famines and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father have increased rather than abated.

The essence of genuine Christian Charity
Genuine Christian Charity involves placing the good of others before ourselves.  If we practice the devotion only to the extent necessary to merit the promise for ourselves, our Christian Charity is seriously lacking.
We ought to look at it this way:  For how many others can I merit the promise during the remainder of my life? Each time we complete a series of five successive First Saturdays we can ask Our Lady to apply the promise merited to a soul in need.  Just think of how many souls would become beneficiaries of our life-long practice.  This is Christian Charity in action.  And as for ourselves, can there be any doubt that, if we gift our merited promises to so many others, Our Lady will provide one for us?

https://wafusa.org/first-saturday-devotion/

Argh... nothing against private devotions, I just sometimes wonder whether this is not leading many people into confusion.
There is just too much borderline superstition stuff around, when it comes to Marian veneration.
It is sometimes really creepy, like much following the Amsterdam apparition.
As if there were not enough prayers and practices from centuries of church history.
Ad Iesum per Mariam, but not Ad Mariam per Iesum. The day that the Sancta Dei Genetrix is declared Co-Redemptrix dogmatically will be the day I will knock at the door
of the next ROCOR parish and humbly ask whether they will accept me as a catechumen.
But I trust that this is never going to happen.

Really, do you think that the Mother of God is keeping track of the number of people practicing the devotions and stating "Ah, not quite enough yet. You can do better than that!" ?
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2017, 10:02:33 AM »
Our Lady expressed the need for reparation of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, “which is already much offended,” and of her Immaculate Heart...
Here we go with the excessive focus on the Passion and the legalism that inevitably follows it.
Quote

1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
I hope that, as an Eastern Catholic deacon, you don't uphold this Western dogma which denies Eastern Soteriology.
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ!

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #70 on: July 12, 2017, 01:12:41 PM »
From the World Apostolate of Fatima:

Our Lady expressed the need for reparation of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, “which is already much offended,” and of her Immaculate Heart. In the apparition of July 13, 1917, Our Lady said, “I shall come to ask for…the Communion of Reparation on the first Saturdays.”  She came expressly to request this devotion when she appeared to Sister Lucia on December 10, 1925, in Pontevedra, Spain, where she was preparing to start her religious life.

The Motives for the Devotion
While Sister Lucia was in the chapel with Our Lord during part of the night of May 29-30, 1930, He explained the motivation for the devotion. This explanation answered the question posed by her confessor about why the number should be 5 Saturdays and not 9 to correspond to the 9 First Fridays, or 7 to correspond with Our Lady’s 7 sorrows.
There are 5 ways in which people offend and blaspheme against The Immaculate Heart of Mary:
1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
2. Against Her perpetual virginity – that She had relations with Joseph and had other children.
3. Against Her Divine Maternity, refusing at the same time to accept Her as Mother of all Mankind – denying that She is the Mother of God and our Mother.
4. The implantation into children’s hearts of indifference, contempt and even hate against our Immaculate Mother.
5. Insults directed against Her sacred images –displays of indifference or ridicule, and the infliction of damage to them.

The essential elements of the practice of the devotion of the 1st Saturday Communions of Reparation
With the intention of making reparation for offenses committed against The Immaculate Heart of Mary:
Go to Confession.
Receive Holy Communion worthily.
Pray five decades of the Rosary.
Keep Our Lady company for 15 minutes while meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary.

The Great Promise
Our Lady promised to assist all those who would practice the devotion on the first Saturday of five consecutive months with the graces necessary for salvation at the hour of their death.

Promise not a guarantee of heaven
It would be a serious mistake to think that those who practice the devotion on five consecutive First Saturdays are guaranteed passage through the pearly gates when the moment of their death arrives.  Our cooperation with grace is always required.

A Life-Long Devotion, not merely five First Saturdays – a requirement of Christian Charity
The promise associated with the practice of the devotion on five consecutive First Saturdays has been mistakenly construed by many to mean that, once one has completed a series of five in succession, they have accomplished the practice of the devotion – that they are finished.  This was not Our Lady’s intention in making the promise, and has resulted in a far fewer people practicing the devotion’s than are necessary to fulfill her request.  This is one reason why wars, famines and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father have increased rather than abated.

The essence of genuine Christian Charity
Genuine Christian Charity involves placing the good of others before ourselves.  If we practice the devotion only to the extent necessary to merit the promise for ourselves, our Christian Charity is seriously lacking.
We ought to look at it this way:  For how many others can I merit the promise during the remainder of my life? Each time we complete a series of five successive First Saturdays we can ask Our Lady to apply the promise merited to a soul in need.  Just think of how many souls would become beneficiaries of our life-long practice.  This is Christian Charity in action.  And as for ourselves, can there be any doubt that, if we gift our merited promises to so many others, Our Lady will provide one for us?

https://wafusa.org/first-saturday-devotion/

Argh... nothing against private devotions, I just sometimes wonder whether this is not leading many people into confusion.
There is just too much borderline superstition stuff around, when it comes to Marian veneration.
It is sometimes really creepy, like much following the Amsterdam apparition.
As if there were not enough prayers and practices from centuries of church history.
Ad Iesum per Mariam, but not Ad Mariam per Iesum. The day that the Sancta Dei Genetrix is declared Co-Redemptrix dogmatically will be the day I will knock at the door
of the next ROCOR parish and humbly ask whether they will accept me as a catechumen.
But I trust that this is never going to happen.

Really, do you think that the Mother of God is keeping track of the number of people practicing the devotions and stating "Ah, not quite enough yet. You can do better than that!" ?
I am not big on apparitions, or this or that devotion that will result in (insert).  Just pointing out that from the Latin side of things there is a reasonable explanation in line with their theology.  AO is building a strawman.  And superstitious stuff goes on among the Orthodox too.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2017, 01:16:19 PM »


1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
I hope that, as an Eastern Catholic deacon, you don't uphold this Western dogma which denies Eastern Soteriology.

I believe the Theotokos was indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the first moment of her existence, as some Eastern fathers have held.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline Diego

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2017, 01:46:50 PM »
Let us be reasonable and fair. EVERY religion has its superstitious types. With Protestants, it tends to run along the lines of say, opening a Bible at a random page and pointing to a verse with eyes closed, and somehow thinking that that verse is uniquely God's verse for you that day, and similar practices.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 01:47:14 PM by Diego »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2017, 01:48:58 PM »


1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
I hope that, as an Eastern Catholic deacon, you don't uphold this Western dogma which denies Eastern Soteriology.

I believe the Theotokos was indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the first moment of her existence, as some Eastern fathers have held.

Do you really think that's an elegant dodge of the question?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2017, 02:06:38 PM »


1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
I hope that, as an Eastern Catholic deacon, you don't uphold this Western dogma which denies Eastern Soteriology.

I believe the Theotokos was indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the first moment of her existence, as some Eastern fathers have held.

Do you really think that's an elegant dodge of the question?

Dodge?  No, that is what I believe.  As did SS Euthymius, Photios, and Gregory Palamas
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 02:09:01 PM by Deacon Lance »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #75 on: July 12, 2017, 03:28:17 PM »


1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
I hope that, as an Eastern Catholic deacon, you don't uphold this Western dogma which denies Eastern Soteriology.

I believe the Theotokos was indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the first moment of her existence, as some Eastern fathers have held.

Do you really think that's an elegant dodge of the question?

Dodge?  No, that is what I believe.  As did SS Euthymius, Photios, and Gregory Palamas

The question was about the Immaculate Conception dogma of your church and your support of it as a deacon.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #76 on: July 12, 2017, 05:02:47 PM »


1.  Offences or blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception – its denial and/or ridicule.
I hope that, as an Eastern Catholic deacon, you don't uphold this Western dogma which denies Eastern Soteriology.

I believe the Theotokos was indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the first moment of her existence, as some Eastern fathers have held.

Do you really think that's an elegant dodge of the question?

Dodge?  No, that is what I believe.  As did SS Euthymius, Photios, and Gregory Palamas

The question was about the Immaculate Conception dogma of your church and your support of it as a deacon.

"We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which holds that the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace of the Omnipotent God, in virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, was preserved immaculate from all stain of original sin, has been revealed by God, and therefore should firmly and constantly be believed by all the faithful."(Pope Blessed Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854)

"In fact, the negative formulation of the Marian privilege, which resulted from the earlier controversies about original sin that arose in the West, must always be complemented by the positive expression of Mary's holiness more explicitly stressed in the Eastern tradition." (Pope St John Paul II, General Audience June 12, 1996)

So I feel neither the need to use the language or title of Immaculate Conception or adopt the theological framework in which it arose nor do I feel the need to denounce it.  It is enough for me to use the language of my tradition which calls her All-Holy, All-Pure, Theotokos.
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: I hope this belongs here....
« Reply #77 on: July 12, 2017, 11:10:23 PM »
So I feel neither the need to use the language or title of Immaculate Conception or adopt the theological framework in which it arose nor do I feel the need to denounce it.  It is enough for me to use the language of my tradition which calls her All-Holy, All-Pure, Theotokos.
8)
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ!