Author Topic: Schismatic used as a pejorative  (Read 843 times)

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Offline Quinault

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Schismatic used as a pejorative
« on: July 07, 2017, 11:29:10 PM »
I have encountered something pretty interesting over the last decade of experiencing Orthodox thought in person with some pretty Godly, and well respected men and women. The vast majority of people I have encountered use the term schismatic merely as a title meaning that a group is in schism with the Orthodox Church, not as a pejorative term.

In person people don't necessarily think that a person or church is automatically evil/bad simply because it is schismatic.

How did this term turn into the Orthodox equivalent of calling someone Hitler?

Offline Jackson02

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 11:32:25 PM »
My theory is that since schismatic is associated with devoid of grace, it came to mean that a person could be without good spirit.

Offline Quinault

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 11:51:47 PM »
Do you think it is a language issue at all? Because in theory any church not in communion is essentially schismatic. Yet, I don't hear people refer to every single church not in communion as the dreaded schismatic. I don't believe the root of schism means devoid of grace, does it? It just means split, nothing more really unless you imbue it with further meaning.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 11:52:27 PM by Quinault »

Offline Jackson02

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 12:01:50 AM »
The root of schism means split over a doctrinal issue. I don't know what you mean by "dreaded schismatic".
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 12:02:02 AM by Jackson02 »

Offline Agabus

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 12:05:05 AM »
Do you think it is a language issue at all? Because in theory any church not in communion is essentially schismatic. Yet, I don't hear people refer to every single church not in communion as the dreaded schismatic.

I think of "schismatic" as a sort of first generation thing, applying directly to those who chose to separate.

One can't be in schism, per se, if they were never part of the original communion.

That's just sort of my own application of the language, though.

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

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Offline Quinault

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 12:06:07 AM »
The root of schism means split over a doctrinal issue. I don't know what you mean by "dreaded schismatic".

I was referring to the tone in which people post about a schismatic church online; it really is used in a manner simply dripping with disdain the vast majority of the time. Yet in person it is just a term used to denote that a church is split over a doctrinal issue like you said.

There is a schismatic monastery near me, and I've been asked if we have visited there (we haven't because we had no clue it existed prior to it being mentioned to us). The question was one of curiosity rather than a semi-accusation like you often encounter on OCnet.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 12:07:37 AM by Quinault »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 12:15:50 AM »
A person who is not just in schism but a schismatic, is someone who works to tear apart the body of Christ where there was formerly brotherly love and accord. This is a very big deal. At least a heretic can be refuted. A schismatic spirit has destroyed many groups, as we can witness in the smaller Protestant sects ad absurdam. "But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed of one another" (St. Paul). Now, if someone is just a member of a church historically in schism with another, then this spirit does not pertain to him and in fact there may well be sympathy and much in common between members of such groups.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 12:17:10 AM »
The root of schism means split over a doctrinal issue. I don't know what you mean by "dreaded schismatic".

I was referring to the tone in which people post about a schismatic church online; it really is used in a manner simply dripping with disdain the vast majority of the time. Yet in person it is just a term used to denote that a church is split over a doctrinal issue like you said.

There is a schismatic monastery near me, and I've been asked if we have visited there (we haven't because we had no clue it existed prior to it being mentioned to us). The question was one of curiosity rather than a semi-accusation like you often encounter on OCnet.

Since this is a particular case, there may be a particular reason.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 12:38:19 AM »
A person who is not just in schism but a schismatic, is someone who works to tear apart the body of Christ where there was formerly brotherly love and accord. This is a very big deal. At least a heretic can be refuted. A schismatic spirit has destroyed many groups, as we can witness in the smaller Protestant sects ad absurdam. "But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed of one another" (St. Paul). Now, if someone is just a member of a church historically in schism with another, then this spirit does not pertain to him and in fact there may well be sympathy and much in common between members of such groups.

That explanation makes sense, but I've never perceived it being used in that context here or elsewhere on the interwebs; that could be reader error, though?  I've never heard it used IRL, but I'm new, so we'll see.  The term is typically heterodox.  And that has a neutral tone, right?  I don't know about Quinault, but for me, I very much want to maintain a respectful view and reference of non-Orthodox, without crossing over into pluralistic territory.  It's hard to know what terminology to use and when, though.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there‚Äôs that.

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Offline Quinault

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 12:38:54 AM »
The root of schism means split over a doctrinal issue. I don't know what you mean by "dreaded schismatic".

I was referring to the tone in which people post about a schismatic church online; it really is used in a manner simply dripping with disdain the vast majority of the time. Yet in person it is just a term used to denote that a church is split over a doctrinal issue like you said.

There is a schismatic monastery near me, and I've been asked if we have visited there (we haven't because we had no clue it existed prior to it being mentioned to us). The question was one of curiosity rather than a semi-accusation like you often encounter on OCnet.

Since this is a particular case, there may be a particular reason.

Its pretty much universal in my decade of conversing in person with anyone Orthodox that the term schismatic (or any variation thereof) isn't a pejorative, merely a descriptive term for a church or individual spilt with the church. I've only encountered people use the term as a pejorative with internet Orthodox.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 12:41:16 AM »
Ah the Netodox. Well as you can tell from my example and others, we'll belligerently latch onto anything we think can win us imaginary debate points.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Schismatic used as a pejorative
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2017, 01:24:06 AM »
We loves the internet.
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