Author Topic: Is it possible human to become angel?  (Read 3475 times)

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Offline Indocern

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Is it possible human to become angel?
« on: July 03, 2017, 12:56:32 AM »
Is it possible human to become angel?

In book of Tobit archangel Raphael says: 5:12 Then he said, I am Azarias, the son of Ananias the great, and of thy brethren.

He gave human name.


Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2017, 01:06:13 AM »
There is a kind of name only for humans? Are Gabriel, Michael, and Jesus not human names?

Some angels have referred to themselves as of "thy brethren the prophets," as in Daniel and the Revelation. This seems similar.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2017, 01:20:39 AM »
But they don't have two names, because his name is Raphael he said:

12:15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2017, 01:27:32 AM »
He's pretending to be a man at that point in the story. His first name wasn't Azarias either.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2017, 01:52:42 AM »
I have one more question. How it is interesting for holy angels like Raphael to serve in Heaven for prayers. Or whatever humans do in Heaven. Do they do anything? Human beings I think don't change in their soul when they go to Heaven. If on earth they were monks maybe they will like that kind of service. But this is personal choice and if they don't like it on earth I don't think they will like it on Heaven. So what kind of happiness they have in Heaven and what they do there? Jesus said He is God of alive and not of dead. My priest said that in God all people are alive. But alive people have wifes while in Bible it says they don't marry in Heaven and are like angels if they are sons of resurrection.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 02:01:31 AM by Indocern »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2017, 03:08:19 AM »
Interesting. So you're worried about the lack of sexual pleasure in heaven?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2017, 05:58:24 AM »
My only happiness would be if I have wife. For me it is doesn't matter if it will be on heaven or hell or abyss. I prefer to have wife and be locked in hell or in abyss. I can't be happy in another way.

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2017, 06:10:06 AM »
My only happiness would be if I have wife. For me it is doesn't matter if it will be on heaven or hell or abyss. I prefer to have wife and be locked in hell or in abyss. I can't be happy in another way.

Well, that's an attitude to get over.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2017, 06:44:16 AM »
My only happiness would be if I have wife. For me it is doesn't matter if it will be on heaven or hell or abyss. I prefer to have wife and be locked in hell or in abyss. I can't be happy in another way.

Well, that's an attitude to get over.

God gave me that hope since years. If he give empty hope and lie with the thing that comes from him "hope" I don't think it will be much right.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 06:47:32 AM by Indocern »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2017, 10:52:43 AM »
The saints in heaven experience companionship and bliss greater than marriage. And they don't lose their past relationships either, but are aware of them in heaven. As for the angels, they are happy to be God's messengers, as that is their nature. I think you can let your concerns go.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2017, 06:11:51 AM »
I am shy and I can only communicate to a person I love. For example if heaven is like earth and I am surrounded by all kind of people I will not talk to nobody and I will be very lonely. If it is possible to change my soul after death and I become different maybe it will be good.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2017, 11:24:39 AM »
I am shy and I can only communicate to a person I love. For example if heaven is like earth and I am surrounded by all kind of people I will not talk to nobody and I will be very lonely. If it is possible to change my soul after death and I become different maybe it will be good.

1.  What you describe its an illness, so of course it shall fall away.

2.  If you think of a wife as someone you could talk to, and if the relationships in heaven are even closer and more meaningful than early marriage, then you have nothing to fear.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline beebert

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2017, 11:30:50 AM »
I am shy and I can only communicate to a person I love. For example if heaven is like earth and I am surrounded by all kind of people I will not talk to nobody and I will be very lonely. If it is possible to change my soul after death and I become different maybe it will be good.
You will love all in heaven, and they will all love you
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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2017, 12:09:53 PM »
I am shy and I can only communicate to a person I love. For example if heaven is like earth and I am surrounded by all kind of people I will not talk to nobody and I will be very lonely. If it is possible to change my soul after death and I become different maybe it will be good.

1.  What you describe its an illness, so of course it shall fall away.

2.  If you think of a wife as someone you could talk to, and if the relationships in heaven are even closer and more meaningful than early marriage, then you have nothing to fear.

This is a correct and deeply pious post from Porter.  :)

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2017, 12:51:08 PM »
Is it possible human to become angel?

No.  Angels were created to be angels, and we were created to be humans.  People often hope their loved ones turn into angels upon their deaths...and you will often here, "she is now my guardian angel", etc....but, that is inaccurate.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2017, 01:14:11 PM »
Is it possible human to become angel?

In book of Tobit archangel Raphael says: 5:12 Then he said, I am Azarias, the son of Ananias the great, and of thy brethren.

He gave human name.

Did you read the whole book?  He was disguising himself as a human, and specifically a relative so that Tobit and Tobias would trust him and listen to his counsel regarding the errand Tobit was sending Tobias on.  Reread chapter 12.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2017, 01:48:09 PM »

No I did not.

However, disguising oneself as something does not make one something.

I was taught that humans are humans, and angels are angels.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2017, 01:49:17 PM »
Is it possible human to become angel?

No.  Angels were created to be angels, and we were created to be humans.  People often hope their loved ones turn into angels upon their deaths...and you will often here, "she is now my guardian angel", etc....but, that is inaccurate.

I think angels do things which they like and not to guard somebody.

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2017, 01:52:24 PM »
Is it possible human to become angel?

No.  Angels were created to be angels, and we were created to be humans.  People often hope their loved ones turn into angels upon their deaths...and you will often here, "she is now my guardian angel", etc....but, that is inaccurate.

I think angels do things which they like and not to guard somebody.

No, that would be the fairies.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2017, 02:00:07 PM »
Is it possible human to become angel?

No.  Angels were created to be angels, and we were created to be humans.  People often hope their loved ones turn into angels upon their deaths...and you will often here, "she is now my guardian angel", etc....but, that is inaccurate.

I think angels do things which they like and not to guard somebody.

Angels do whatever the Lord directs them to do.  They don't go gallivanting around just because they feel like it.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2017, 03:30:32 PM »
Jesus said there is houses in heaven. So with whom I can live there? I live all my life with my parents I think it is enough. But I don't communicate with others but I think it must be some very close person which I like. And I don't like men.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 03:31:42 PM by Indocern »

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2017, 03:51:40 PM »

No I did not.

However, disguising oneself as something does not make one something.

I was taught that humans are humans, and angels are angels.

Oh sorry!  I was referring to Indocern's assertion that just because Raphael introduced himself as a human doesn't mean he actually used to be one; it was just a disguise, and Tobit 12 makes that pretty clear (I think, anyway).  I completely agree with you, Liza.  :)
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2017, 03:57:14 PM »

;)
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2017, 03:59:03 PM »

No I did not.

However, disguising oneself as something does not make one something.

I was taught that humans are humans, and angels are angels.

Oh sorry!  I was referring to Indocern's assertion that just because Raphael introduced himself as a human doesn't mean he actually used to be one; it was just a disguise, and Tobit 12 makes that pretty clear (I think, anyway).  I completely agree with you, Liza.  :)

Yes I have read that book. But I don't think that angels lie.

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2017, 04:06:12 PM »
Jesus said there is houses in heaven. So with whom I can live there? I live all my life with my parents I think it is enough. But I don't communicate with others but I think it must be some very close person which I like. And I don't like men.

He said there is room for all in his Father's house, by dint of his preparatory work. Yes, more literally it would be "rooms for all," but that's his meaning.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2017, 04:32:58 PM »
Jesus said there is houses in heaven. So with whom I can live there? I live all my life with my parents I think it is enough. But I don't communicate with others but I think it must be some very close person which I like. And I don't like men.

He said there is room for all in his Father's house, by dint of his preparatory work. Yes, more literally it would be "rooms for all," but that's his meaning.

I think if hell is real I will chose hell as different kingdom. More secluded, more dark. I like dark and night.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 04:34:36 PM by Indocern »

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2017, 04:37:19 PM »
Jesus said there is houses in heaven. So with whom I can live there? I live all my life with my parents I think it is enough. But I don't communicate with others but I think it must be some very close person which I like. And I don't like men.

He said there is room for all in his Father's house, by dint of his preparatory work. Yes, more literally it would be "rooms for all," but that's his meaning.

I think if hell is real I will chose hell as different kingdom. More secluded, more dark. I like dark and night.

Christ said: I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life...
Whoever follows me - it means, who is a Christian. If you have such inclinations as you've described, something is wrong...
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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2017, 04:48:59 PM »
Jesus said there is houses in heaven. So with whom I can live there? I live all my life with my parents I think it is enough. But I don't communicate with others but I think it must be some very close person which I like. And I don't like men.

He said there is room for all in his Father's house, by dint of his preparatory work. Yes, more literally it would be "rooms for all," but that's his meaning.

I think if hell is real I will chose hell as different kingdom. More secluded, more dark. I like dark and night.

Christ said: I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life...
Whoever follows me - it means, who is a Christian. If you have such inclinations as you've described, something is wrong...

Maybe really I have wrong thinking for some things.

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2017, 05:33:02 PM »
Saint John of Damascus discusses about the nature of angels. This is impossible. It is different to be a man, it is different to be an angel. Tobit is just a story that teaches us many things about family life. Don't use it for theology. :p Although it includes some of our beliefs like intercession of angels...
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Offline William T

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2017, 05:45:28 PM »

No I did not.

However, disguising oneself as something does not make one something.

I was taught that humans are humans, and angels are angels.

This is truth.  Two different beings,  and they will be for eternity.   

Offline William T

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2017, 06:00:30 PM »
Is it possible human to become angel?

In book of Tobit archangel Raphael says: 5:12 Then he said, I am Azarias, the son of Ananias the great, and of thy brethren.

He gave human name.

Did you read the whole book?  He was disguising himself as a human, and specifically a relative so that Tobit and Tobias would trust him and listen to his counsel regarding the errand Tobit was sending Tobias on.  Reread chapter 12.

Yes.  Angles  don't have form.  If they appear they take form in ways we can comprehend.   The icon images of Angles are symbolic truth (for example,  John the Baptist has wings on icons for the reason angels do ).

If the op wished to be like an angel he would be in obedience or in rebellion to God's will in ways very few humans would understand or experience.   That's not a burden to desire

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2017, 06:46:05 PM »
Angels are bodiless. We have bodies of matter. The Lord said in the resurrection we will be like the Angels  but that is it;see Matthew 22:23-32 .
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 06:47:42 PM by recent convert »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2017, 06:51:55 PM »
Angels are bodiless. We have bodies of matter. The Lord said in the resurrection we will be like the Angels  but that is it;see Matthew 22:23-32 .

He likened us to them in certain regards.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2017, 03:38:27 AM »
No, I don't wish to be angel. But I want to live together with angel on heaven.

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2017, 03:53:42 AM »
Does mommy not think you are an angel?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2017, 04:26:57 AM »
Does mommy not think you are an angel?

Does your daddy not think you are princess?


Offline hecma925

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2017, 04:32:55 AM »
Is she your fave princess?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2017, 04:56:55 AM »
No. She is.


Offline Dominika

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2017, 07:33:45 AM »
^^ but this is an animal  :o
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

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Offline Indocern

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2017, 11:09:10 AM »
^^ but this is an animal  :o

Then she:


Offline hecma925

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2017, 12:53:16 PM »
^^ but this is an animal  :o

They're all cartoons.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2017, 12:58:08 PM »
Disappointed this turned out to be a troll thread.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2017, 01:59:11 PM »
Does mommy not think you are an angel?

Does your daddy not think you are princess?



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Re: Is it possible human to become angel?
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2017, 11:37:10 PM »
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us