Author Topic: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic  (Read 11458 times)

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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #450 on: August 17, 2017, 01:19:41 PM »
Blah, blah, blah, more of the same pablum, ad nauseam...
You never squared off your sect without a pope and the need of there being a pope as head of the Church.  Evidently you are incapable of realizing anything about yourself or your heretical beliefs.

I rest my case.

the only case you have made is that you don't have a clue..leave the catholic apologetics to people like me who care about the truth..read the below and learn something..start taking your salvation seriously...evidently you are incapable of realizing the truth
You can't make an argument by blatantly dumping quotes copied from Most Holy Family Monastery.
says who?, you sound like the other genius who said I can't post from St Thomas..listen, either the info is true or it's not..if not just prove it false..when I quoted St Thomas the response was the quotes are forgeries..lol

Thanks, I'm glad you were able to argue against me with logical debate rather than a usage of ad hominem attacks  ::)

Christ never said, "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. If not, call him an idiot to win the argument."

Also, sedevacantism is a foolish belief from a Roman Catholic standpoint, as it not only adheres to the fact that the gates of hell have prevailed against the Roman Catholic Church, and 1 billion Catholics are immediately condemned to hell for obeying the Pope, but considering that it is absolutely necessary to be in communion with "infallible Rome" according to RC tradition, how it is possible for infallible Rome to be wrong in its dogma, so that anyone in communion with Rome is a heretic.

It seems like an honest contradiction...
And it is very prideful...it reminds me of a certain parable (Luke 18:9-14)

Or, it could be that Rome was never seen as de facto infallible according to Tradition, and that the true Church is with the other four Patriarchs who excommunicated the one Patriarch.

Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #451 on: August 17, 2017, 01:36:15 PM »
Sedevacantist, maybe it would be helpful if you could show us a quote from a current Catholic bishop with apostolic succession that indicates there is currently no pope.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #452 on: August 17, 2017, 01:52:22 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved


Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #453 on: August 17, 2017, 01:54:06 PM »
Indeed. Everyone has to be subject to Rome in order to be saved. Yet, Rome is in heresy. It's one of the many paradoxical a, yet not a logical sequences that Rome or Romanists adhere to.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”- St. Ambrose of Milan

"Now one cannot be a half-hearted Christian, but only entirely or not at all." -Fr. Seraphim Rose

"He who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20)

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #454 on: August 17, 2017, 02:02:37 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Papism is not the Church of Christ, it's a schismatic and heretical sect.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”- St. Ambrose of Milan

"Now one cannot be a half-hearted Christian, but only entirely or not at all." -Fr. Seraphim Rose

"He who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #455 on: August 17, 2017, 02:07:58 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Then why don't you convert and save your soul?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #456 on: August 17, 2017, 03:21:20 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Then why don't you convert and save your soul?
He believes that he already is a member of the one church.
I think that many people on this forum have some kind of (probably hidden) agenda. With Anthony, who started this thread, it is quite clear. As far as one can tell from his posts, he is really struggling and hoping to get input here. Similar with Sharbel who is disappointed with the Catholic church. However, I don't understand what Sedevacantist's purpose is here: He comes to an Orthodox page, trying to win over Orthodox for his sedis, online mission, so to say? Unlikely. Why don't you put your effort into trad Catholic audience? Something strange going on here.
una cum famulo tuo Papa nostro et Antistite nostro et omnibus orthodoxis atque catholicæ et apostolicæ fidei cultoribus

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #457 on: August 17, 2017, 03:35:52 PM »
He believes what now?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #458 on: August 17, 2017, 08:30:23 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Then why don't you convert and save your soul?
He believes that he already is a member of the one church.
I think that many people on this forum have some kind of (probably hidden) agenda. With Anthony, who started this thread, it is quite clear. As far as one can tell from his posts, he is really struggling and hoping to get input here. Similar with Sharbel who is disappointed with the Catholic church. However, I don't understand what Sedevacantist's purpose is here: He comes to an Orthodox page, trying to win over Orthodox for his sedis, online mission, so to say? Unlikely. Why don't you put your effort into trad Catholic audience? Something strange going on here.
something strange?? is it strange to try and convert non catholics who are headed to hell in order that they maybe saved...why would I have to convert Traditional Catholics since hey have the true faith?? how do you know I don't debate in trad Catholic forums anyway?  what's strange  is  your statement .

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #459 on: August 17, 2017, 08:31:10 PM »
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I my personal life the most of RCs I met they are cold heart hypocrites. Many RCs said they belong to the only true church, and they are real Christians. However, they don't have love and compassion in their heart. They like to go around to judge people and insult others.

I haven't met many sedevacantists in my personal life. However their behaviours on internet are absolutely ruthless, rude, and full of hatred. Same as most of "traditional Catholics". 

I still have some friends who are RCs. However, I am really angry at Roman Church.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #460 on: August 17, 2017, 08:31:50 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Papism is not the Church of Christ, it's a schismatic and heretical sect.
the papacy is biblical, proven here numerous times

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #461 on: August 17, 2017, 08:39:41 PM »
Sedevacantist, maybe it would be helpful if you could show us a quote from a current Catholic bishop with apostolic succession that indicates there is currently no pope.
Servulus

http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/bpsanbornbio.html

 Donald J. Sanborn was born in New York, where he attended Catholic elementary school and high school. In 1967 he entered the seminary college for the Diocese of Brooklyn, where he majored in classical languages and graduated cum laude in 1971.


   That same year, unhappy with the modernist seminary training he was receiving, he entered Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s seminary in Ecône, Switzerland, thus becoming one of the first seminarians in the newly founded Society of St. Pius X (SSPX).

   

   Donald Sanborn was ordained a priest by Archbishop Lefebvre on June 29, 1975. He returned to East Meadow, on New York’s Long Island, to assist the Rev. Clarence Kelly. He taught at St. Pius V School on Long Island, and traveled to offer Mass in Pennsylvania, Delaware and Virginia.


   In January 1977 Archbishop Lefebvre appointed him Rector of St. Joseph’s House of Studies in Armada, Michigan, SSPX’s first American seminary. In fall of that year, he was joined by the Rev. Anthony Cekada. The following year he acquired a church facility in Redford, Michigan, to serve Catholics in the Detroit metropolitan area.


   From Armada, Fr. Sanborn conducted an extensive search throughout the United States for a new and larger seminary facility to accommodate the growing number of seminarians. In 1979, with the consent of Archbishop Lefevbre, he acquired a former Jesuit retreat house in Ridgefield, Connecticut, which was then renamed St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary and became the new home of SSPX’s U.S. seminary.


   He immediately made plans for the expansion of the Ridgefield facility, and launched a major fundraising program, which by 1982 allowed construction to begin on a new wing.


   In April 1983 he was among the nine American priests expelled from SSPX because they objected to liturgical changes imposed by Archbishop Lefebvre, as well as to other disturbing leftward trends in the Archbishop’s organization. Thereafter in 1984 Fr. Sanborn established Blessed Sacrament Chapel in Martinez, California.


   After returning to Michigan in 1986, he acquired a large school complex in Warren, a northeast suburb of Detroit. This became the home for Mary Help of Christians Academy, and for Queen of Martyrs Chapel, which in 1999 would later acquire a large church in Fraser, another northeast suburb.


   In 1991 he founded Sacerdotium, a scholarly quarterly for traditional Catholic priests, and Catholic Restoration, a periodical for the Catholic laity. Both immediately acquired a well-deserved reputation for excellence in content and presentation.


   During this period, Fr. Sanborn turned his attention to writing, and produced a series of articles analyzing the errors of Vatican II and John Paul II.


   In 1995, with the encouragement of fellow traditional Catholic priests, he founded Most Holy Trinity Seminary. Fr. Sanborn is eminently qualified to form young men for the priesthood. He has a profound grasp of Thomistic philosophy and of Catholic dogmatic and moral theology, and is an outstanding teacher who is able to communicate his knowledge effectively. In addition to expertise in Latin and a working knowledge of Greek, German and Spanish, he is fluent in French and Italian, and has a broad understanding of Catholic history and culture. He is devoted to the solemnities of the sacred liturgy, and his years as a priest and seminary rector provided him with many insights into priestly spirituality.


   In 1999 Fr. Sanborn began teaching the seminarians a course on the history of modern errors. It was the product of several years of reading and research, and will one day be published as a book.


   In June, 2002, he was consecrated a bishop by the Most Rev. Robert F. McKenna, OP.


   Because Fr. Selway needed to be in a warm climate for health reasons, Bishop Sanborn decided in 2003 to move the seminary from Michigan to Florida. He purchased a small church and school facility in the city of Brooksville in Hernando County, about fifty miles north of Tampa. Shortly thereafter he purchased approximately forty-eight acres, also in Hernando County, on which to build the seminary.


   Work started on the seminary in April of 2005. The seminary obtained occupancy of the building in April of 2008. Bishop Sanborn moved the seminary from Warren, Michigan to Florida in 2005, occupying temporarily the church/school facility, while awaiting the completion of the new seminary building.


   The long-term goal is that Most Holy Trinity Seminary, a novitiate of the Sisters of Saint Thomas Aquinas, and Queen of All Saints Academy occupy the original forty-eight acres which he purchased in 2003. Such a combination of facilities in one location would make for a vibrant parish life, a fine school, and rich and beautiful liturgical ceremonies.


   Bishop Sanborn is currently Rector of the seminary in Brooksville, Florida. He also travels frequently to Mass centers in the United States, and makes occasional visits to Europe, where he meets with both clergy and lay people who share or who are interested in his uncompromising position with regard to the Novus Ordo religion.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #462 on: August 17, 2017, 08:43:53 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Papism is not the Church of Christ, it's a schismatic and heretical sect.
the papacy is biblical, proven here numerous times

The Novus Ordo is biblical, proven lots of places numerous times. 
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #463 on: August 17, 2017, 08:50:43 PM »
When I was studying in University of Waterloo in Canada. RC students brainwashed me to join their student club. RCs used the threat of hell to force me not to become Orthodox. So I have to go to Byzantine Catholic Church. I was being brainwashed to participate Eucharist adoration, rosary, Divine Mercy....    However, I didn't receive any spiritual healing and comfort. Only thing I got was verbal,spiritual and mental abuse. I got insulted by RC layman, priests and nun. It costed my lots of grief and pain. Because of my involvement with RC students club and Byzantine Catholic Church I almost failed university. I spent 6 years to do a bachelor degree.
RCs stole my youth year. Right now I am 30 years old now, I am still doing the other degree. I have no job, car, house, money, wife and children.
Most of RCs I used to be friends with, they complete forsake me. They don't care about my current situation. They completely ignore my pain.
RC owns me so much. What a evil organization on earth. I feel so shameful that I scarified my time for this evil organization for nothing.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #464 on: August 17, 2017, 08:51:54 PM »
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I my personal life the most of RCs I met they are cold heart hypocrites. Many RCs said they belong to the only true church, and they are real Christians. However, they don't have love and compassion in their heart. They like to go around to judge people and insult others.

I haven't met many sedevacantists in my personal life. However their behaviours on internet are absolutely ruthless, rude, and full of hatred. Same as most of "traditional Catholics". 

I still have some friends who are RCs. However, I am really angry at Roman Church.

Do you think it's fair to evaluate the whole church based on "trad" and sedevacantist elements?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #465 on: August 17, 2017, 08:56:26 PM »
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I my personal life the most of RCs I met they are cold heart hypocrites. Many RCs said they belong to the only true church, and they are real Christians. However, they don't have love and compassion in their heart. They like to go around to judge people and insult others.

I haven't met many sedevacantists in my personal life. However their behaviours on internet are absolutely ruthless, rude, and full of hatred. Same as most of "traditional Catholics". 

I still have some friends who are RCs. However, I am really angry at Roman Church.

Do you think it's fair to evaluate the whole church based on "trad" and sedevacantist elements?

Not just "trad" and sedevacantists...

Most of Roman Catholics I met who go to Novos Ordo every Sunday are also cold heart hypocrites. I met many RCs who pray rosary everyday are full of hatred in their heart. They just like people in CAF forum that lack of compassion and enjoy insult people.
 
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #466 on: August 17, 2017, 09:01:52 PM »
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I my personal life the most of RCs I met they are cold heart hypocrites. Many RCs said they belong to the only true church, and they are real Christians. However, they don't have love and compassion in their heart. They like to go around to judge people and insult others.

I haven't met many sedevacantists in my personal life. However their behaviours on internet are absolutely ruthless, rude, and full of hatred. Same as most of "traditional Catholics". 

I still have some friends who are RCs. However, I am really angry at Roman Church.

Do you think it's fair to evaluate the whole church based on "trad" and sedevacantist elements?

Not just "trad" and sedevacantists...

Most of Roman Catholics I met who go to Novos Ordo every Sunday are also cold heart hypocrites. I met many RCs who pray rosary everyday are full of hatred in their heart. They just like people in CAF forum that lack of compassion and enjoy insult people.

Orthodox will disappoint you.
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #467 on: August 17, 2017, 09:39:09 PM »
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I my personal life the most of RCs I met they are cold heart hypocrites. Many RCs said they belong to the only true church, and they are real Christians. However, they don't have love and compassion in their heart. They like to go around to judge people and insult others.

I haven't met many sedevacantists in my personal life. However their behaviours on internet are absolutely ruthless, rude, and full of hatred. Same as most of "traditional Catholics". 

I still have some friends who are RCs. However, I am really angry at Roman Church.

Do you think it's fair to evaluate the whole church based on "trad" and sedevacantist elements?

Not just "trad" and sedevacantists...

Most of Roman Catholics I met who go to Novos Ordo every Sunday are also cold heart hypocrites. I met many RCs who pray rosary everyday are full of hatred in their heart. They just like people in CAF forum that lack of compassion and enjoy insult people.

These are trying times and many folks are angry. Yet it isn't excusable. But I wonder if you're trapped in a certain social circle or something. This happened to me one time -- in fact, I spent several years in misery, blaming a certain locality, only eventually to discover that just my coworkers and their friends were the rotten ones. To get to the point -- I know and have known many lovely, compassionate, kind, and fair Roman Catholics, so I know they can't all be painted with a black brush. Indeed, it would be hypocrisy on our part to say they are the "bad ones."
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #468 on: August 17, 2017, 11:24:02 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Papism is not the Church of Christ, it's a schismatic and heretical sect.
the papacy is biblical, proven here numerous times

The Novus Ordo is biblical, proven lots of places numerous times.
show me your thread where you proved this...I won't hold my breath

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #469 on: August 17, 2017, 11:37:03 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Papism is not the Church of Christ, it's a schismatic and heretical sect.
the papacy is biblical, proven here numerous times

The Novus Ordo is biblical, proven lots of places numerous times.
show me your thread where you proved this...I won't hold my breath

The Papacy is not Biblical. There is no place in the Bible that gives the Bishop of Rome infallible powers.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”- St. Ambrose of Milan

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Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #470 on: August 18, 2017, 12:57:42 AM »
Sedevacantist, maybe it would be helpful if you could show us a quote from a current Catholic bishop with apostolic succession that indicates there is currently no pope.
Servulus

http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/bpsanbornbio.html

 Donald J. Sanborn was born in New York, where he attended Catholic elementary school and high school. In 1967 he entered the seminary college for the Diocese of Brooklyn, where he majored in classical languages and graduated cum laude in 1971.


   That same year, unhappy with the modernist seminary training he was receiving, he entered Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s seminary in Ecône, Switzerland, thus becoming one of the first seminarians in the newly founded Society of St. Pius X (SSPX).

   

   Donald Sanborn was ordained a priest by Archbishop Lefebvre on June 29, 1975. He returned to East Meadow, on New York’s Long Island, to assist the Rev. Clarence Kelly. He taught at St. Pius V School on Long Island, and traveled to offer Mass in Pennsylvania, Delaware and Virginia.


   In January 1977 Archbishop Lefebvre appointed him Rector of St. Joseph’s House of Studies in Armada, Michigan, SSPX’s first American seminary. In fall of that year, he was joined by the Rev. Anthony Cekada. The following year he acquired a church facility in Redford, Michigan, to serve Catholics in the Detroit metropolitan area.


   From Armada, Fr. Sanborn conducted an extensive search throughout the United States for a new and larger seminary facility to accommodate the growing number of seminarians. In 1979, with the consent of Archbishop Lefevbre, he acquired a former Jesuit retreat house in Ridgefield, Connecticut, which was then renamed St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary and became the new home of SSPX’s U.S. seminary.


   He immediately made plans for the expansion of the Ridgefield facility, and launched a major fundraising program, which by 1982 allowed construction to begin on a new wing.


   In April 1983 he was among the nine American priests expelled from SSPX because they objected to liturgical changes imposed by Archbishop Lefebvre, as well as to other disturbing leftward trends in the Archbishop’s organization. Thereafter in 1984 Fr. Sanborn established Blessed Sacrament Chapel in Martinez, California.


   After returning to Michigan in 1986, he acquired a large school complex in Warren, a northeast suburb of Detroit. This became the home for Mary Help of Christians Academy, and for Queen of Martyrs Chapel, which in 1999 would later acquire a large church in Fraser, another northeast suburb.


   In 1991 he founded Sacerdotium, a scholarly quarterly for traditional Catholic priests, and Catholic Restoration, a periodical for the Catholic laity. Both immediately acquired a well-deserved reputation for excellence in content and presentation.


   During this period, Fr. Sanborn turned his attention to writing, and produced a series of articles analyzing the errors of Vatican II and John Paul II.


   In 1995, with the encouragement of fellow traditional Catholic priests, he founded Most Holy Trinity Seminary. Fr. Sanborn is eminently qualified to form young men for the priesthood. He has a profound grasp of Thomistic philosophy and of Catholic dogmatic and moral theology, and is an outstanding teacher who is able to communicate his knowledge effectively. In addition to expertise in Latin and a working knowledge of Greek, German and Spanish, he is fluent in French and Italian, and has a broad understanding of Catholic history and culture. He is devoted to the solemnities of the sacred liturgy, and his years as a priest and seminary rector provided him with many insights into priestly spirituality.


   In 1999 Fr. Sanborn began teaching the seminarians a course on the history of modern errors. It was the product of several years of reading and research, and will one day be published as a book.


   In June, 2002, he was consecrated a bishop by the Most Rev. Robert F. McKenna, OP.


   Because Fr. Selway needed to be in a warm climate for health reasons, Bishop Sanborn decided in 2003 to move the seminary from Michigan to Florida. He purchased a small church and school facility in the city of Brooksville in Hernando County, about fifty miles north of Tampa. Shortly thereafter he purchased approximately forty-eight acres, also in Hernando County, on which to build the seminary.


   Work started on the seminary in April of 2005. The seminary obtained occupancy of the building in April of 2008. Bishop Sanborn moved the seminary from Warren, Michigan to Florida in 2005, occupying temporarily the church/school facility, while awaiting the completion of the new seminary building.


   The long-term goal is that Most Holy Trinity Seminary, a novitiate of the Sisters of Saint Thomas Aquinas, and Queen of All Saints Academy occupy the original forty-eight acres which he purchased in 2003. Such a combination of facilities in one location would make for a vibrant parish life, a fine school, and rich and beautiful liturgical ceremonies.


   Bishop Sanborn is currently Rector of the seminary in Brooksville, Florida. He also travels frequently to Mass centers in the United States, and makes occasional visits to Europe, where he meets with both clergy and lay people who share or who are interested in his uncompromising position with regard to the Novus Ordo religion.
Thanks for responding.
I'm not going to debate whether or not Thuc line bishops are validly ordained from a Catholic point of view. I'll just assume that they are for the sake of argument. I don't think Bishop Sanborn can be considered to have apostolic succession. My point is that not even your bishops have authority.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #471 on: August 18, 2017, 01:11:50 AM »
Similar with Sharbel who is disappointed with the Catholic church.
If I may say it, it's not so much disappointment as disbelief.  The mounting contradictions, not only between my Maronite theology and tradition and the Roman theology and tradition, but inside Rome's theology and tradition.  What Rome calls development of theology creates glaring conflicts in its understanding of Divine Revelation and Liturgy, which is probably why ditching the Liturgy of Trent was a nigh necessity, to be replaced with a liturgy that papered over such conflicts.  It's as if Rome leaps farther and away from the orthodox faith in order to save face as the infallible patriarchate.
Something strange going on here.
The only strange thing is someone who keeps screaming proof texts in an empty room with the echo of his own voice confirming his beliefs.

Paraphrasing George Bernard Shaw, "I don't care about what you quote, tell me what you think!"
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 01:24:21 AM by Sharbel »
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ!

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #472 on: August 18, 2017, 02:25:48 AM »
The only strange thing is someone who keeps screaming proof texts in an empty room with the echo of his own voice confirming his beliefs.

Paraphrasing George Bernard Shaw, "I don't care about what you quote, tell me what you think!"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I notice some RCs come to this forum just throw many quotes but they never express their thought with others.
They just come here to post the polemic. They don't want to have any discussion with anyone. Just like what happened in Catholic answers forum.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #473 on: August 18, 2017, 02:36:11 AM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Then why don't you convert and save your soul?
He believes that he already is a member of the one church.
I think that many people on this forum have some kind of (probably hidden) agenda. With Anthony, who started this thread, it is quite clear. As far as one can tell from his posts, he is really struggling and hoping to get input here. Similar with Sharbel who is disappointed with the Catholic church. However, I don't understand what Sedevacantist's purpose is here: He comes to an Orthodox page, trying to win over Orthodox for his sedis, online mission, so to say? Unlikely. Why don't you put your effort into trad Catholic audience? Something strange going on here.
something strange?? is it strange to try and convert non catholics who are headed to hell in order that they maybe saved...why would I have to convert Traditional Catholics since hey have the true faith?? how do you know I don't debate in trad Catholic forums anyway?  what's strange  is  your statement .
Ah... would you not like to convince trad Catholics that there actually is no pope? You certainly do not want them to continue to be in communion with a heretic?
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
una cum famulo tuo Papa nostro et Antistite nostro et omnibus orthodoxis atque catholicæ et apostolicæ fidei cultoribus

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #474 on: August 18, 2017, 09:37:06 AM »
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
Or to anyone of any or no faith, for that matter.  For quoting others is not an example of personal holiness that inspires and attracts others to the same way of life.  Unless, of course, personal holiness is understood as one who follows the letter of the law to the least iota, never learning to love the law giver.  Then, "without love", you just "sound like a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal" (1Cor 13:1).
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ!

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #475 on: August 18, 2017, 12:47:05 PM »
Sedevacantist, maybe it would be helpful if you could show us a quote from a current Catholic bishop with apostolic succession that indicates there is currently no pope.
Servulus

http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/bpsanbornbio.html

 Donald J. Sanborn was born in New York, where he attended Catholic elementary school and high school. In 1967 he entered the seminary college for the Diocese of Brooklyn, where he majored in classical languages and graduated cum laude in 1971.


   That same year, unhappy with the modernist seminary training he was receiving, he entered Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s seminary in Ecône, Switzerland, thus becoming one of the first seminarians in the newly founded Society of St. Pius X (SSPX).

   

   Donald Sanborn was ordained a priest by Archbishop Lefebvre on June 29, 1975. He returned to East Meadow, on New York’s Long Island, to assist the Rev. Clarence Kelly. He taught at St. Pius V School on Long Island, and traveled to offer Mass in Pennsylvania, Delaware and Virginia.


   In January 1977 Archbishop Lefebvre appointed him Rector of St. Joseph’s House of Studies in Armada, Michigan, SSPX’s first American seminary. In fall of that year, he was joined by the Rev. Anthony Cekada. The following year he acquired a church facility in Redford, Michigan, to serve Catholics in the Detroit metropolitan area.


   From Armada, Fr. Sanborn conducted an extensive search throughout the United States for a new and larger seminary facility to accommodate the growing number of seminarians. In 1979, with the consent of Archbishop Lefevbre, he acquired a former Jesuit retreat house in Ridgefield, Connecticut, which was then renamed St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary and became the new home of SSPX’s U.S. seminary.


   He immediately made plans for the expansion of the Ridgefield facility, and launched a major fundraising program, which by 1982 allowed construction to begin on a new wing.


   In April 1983 he was among the nine American priests expelled from SSPX because they objected to liturgical changes imposed by Archbishop Lefebvre, as well as to other disturbing leftward trends in the Archbishop’s organization. Thereafter in 1984 Fr. Sanborn established Blessed Sacrament Chapel in Martinez, California.


   After returning to Michigan in 1986, he acquired a large school complex in Warren, a northeast suburb of Detroit. This became the home for Mary Help of Christians Academy, and for Queen of Martyrs Chapel, which in 1999 would later acquire a large church in Fraser, another northeast suburb.


   In 1991 he founded Sacerdotium, a scholarly quarterly for traditional Catholic priests, and Catholic Restoration, a periodical for the Catholic laity. Both immediately acquired a well-deserved reputation for excellence in content and presentation.


   During this period, Fr. Sanborn turned his attention to writing, and produced a series of articles analyzing the errors of Vatican II and John Paul II.


   In 1995, with the encouragement of fellow traditional Catholic priests, he founded Most Holy Trinity Seminary. Fr. Sanborn is eminently qualified to form young men for the priesthood. He has a profound grasp of Thomistic philosophy and of Catholic dogmatic and moral theology, and is an outstanding teacher who is able to communicate his knowledge effectively. In addition to expertise in Latin and a working knowledge of Greek, German and Spanish, he is fluent in French and Italian, and has a broad understanding of Catholic history and culture. He is devoted to the solemnities of the sacred liturgy, and his years as a priest and seminary rector provided him with many insights into priestly spirituality.


   In 1999 Fr. Sanborn began teaching the seminarians a course on the history of modern errors. It was the product of several years of reading and research, and will one day be published as a book.


   In June, 2002, he was consecrated a bishop by the Most Rev. Robert F. McKenna, OP.


   Because Fr. Selway needed to be in a warm climate for health reasons, Bishop Sanborn decided in 2003 to move the seminary from Michigan to Florida. He purchased a small church and school facility in the city of Brooksville in Hernando County, about fifty miles north of Tampa. Shortly thereafter he purchased approximately forty-eight acres, also in Hernando County, on which to build the seminary.


   Work started on the seminary in April of 2005. The seminary obtained occupancy of the building in April of 2008. Bishop Sanborn moved the seminary from Warren, Michigan to Florida in 2005, occupying temporarily the church/school facility, while awaiting the completion of the new seminary building.


   The long-term goal is that Most Holy Trinity Seminary, a novitiate of the Sisters of Saint Thomas Aquinas, and Queen of All Saints Academy occupy the original forty-eight acres which he purchased in 2003. Such a combination of facilities in one location would make for a vibrant parish life, a fine school, and rich and beautiful liturgical ceremonies.


   Bishop Sanborn is currently Rector of the seminary in Brooksville, Florida. He also travels frequently to Mass centers in the United States, and makes occasional visits to Europe, where he meets with both clergy and lay people who share or who are interested in his uncompromising position with regard to the Novus Ordo religion.
Thanks for responding.
I'm not going to debate whether or not Thuc line bishops are validly ordained from a Catholic point of view. I'll just assume that they are for the sake of argument. I don't think Bishop Sanborn can be considered to have apostolic succession. My point is that not even your bishops have authority.
ArchBishop Lefebvre consecrated 4 bishops, do you reject those?  if so why, what are you basing this opinion on?

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #476 on: August 18, 2017, 12:53:56 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Then why don't you convert and save your soul?
He believes that he already is a member of the one church.
I think that many people on this forum have some kind of (probably hidden) agenda. With Anthony, who started this thread, it is quite clear. As far as one can tell from his posts, he is really struggling and hoping to get input here. Similar with Sharbel who is disappointed with the Catholic church. However, I don't understand what Sedevacantist's purpose is here: He comes to an Orthodox page, trying to win over Orthodox for his sedis, online mission, so to say? Unlikely. Why don't you put your effort into trad Catholic audience? Something strange going on here.
something strange?? is it strange to try and convert non catholics who are headed to hell in order that they maybe saved...why would I have to convert Traditional Catholics since hey have the true faith?? how do you know I don't debate in trad Catholic forums anyway?  what's strange  is  your statement .
Ah... would you not like to convince trad Catholics that there actually is no pope? You certainly do not want them to continue to be in communion with a heretic?
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
the trad Catholics who believe the pope is technically the pope still resist him and reject his faith. I do not belive these trads are in jeopardy of damnation for their belief. The Orthodox here on the other hand are outside the Church of Christ so they are damned unless they convert. What is my manner that you are referring to? I merely back up my faith with the truth, should I not post the truth?

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #477 on: August 18, 2017, 12:59:01 PM »
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
Or to anyone of any or no faith, for that matter.  For quoting others is not an example of personal holiness that inspires and attracts others to the same way of life.  Unless, of course, personal holiness is understood as one who follows the letter of the law to the least iota, never learning to love the law giver.  Then, "without love", you just "sound like a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal" (1Cor 13:1).
if I quote the Church fathers or other Catholics more knowledgeable than me why is this  bad thing?

I'm not here to convey personal holiness on a website with strangers. I'm here to present the true faith, this is for love of my neighbor , if I on the other hand tell you everything is ok, just for the sake of human respect or to be liked etc would that be love of my neighbor if the poor soul spends eternity in hell? 

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #478 on: August 18, 2017, 01:39:11 PM »
Sedevacantist, maybe it would be helpful if you could show us a quote from a current Catholic bishop with apostolic succession that indicates there is currently no pope.
Servulus

http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/bpsanbornbio.html

 Donald J. Sanborn was born in New York, where he attended Catholic elementary school and high school. In 1967 he entered the seminary college for the Diocese of Brooklyn, where he majored in classical languages and graduated cum laude in 1971.


   That same year, unhappy with the modernist seminary training he was receiving, he entered Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s seminary in Ecône, Switzerland, thus becoming one of the first seminarians in the newly founded Society of St. Pius X (SSPX).

   

   Donald Sanborn was ordained a priest by Archbishop Lefebvre on June 29, 1975. He returned to East Meadow, on New York’s Long Island, to assist the Rev. Clarence Kelly. He taught at St. Pius V School on Long Island, and traveled to offer Mass in Pennsylvania, Delaware and Virginia.


   In January 1977 Archbishop Lefebvre appointed him Rector of St. Joseph’s House of Studies in Armada, Michigan, SSPX’s first American seminary. In fall of that year, he was joined by the Rev. Anthony Cekada. The following year he acquired a church facility in Redford, Michigan, to serve Catholics in the Detroit metropolitan area.


   From Armada, Fr. Sanborn conducted an extensive search throughout the United States for a new and larger seminary facility to accommodate the growing number of seminarians. In 1979, with the consent of Archbishop Lefevbre, he acquired a former Jesuit retreat house in Ridgefield, Connecticut, which was then renamed St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary and became the new home of SSPX’s U.S. seminary.


   He immediately made plans for the expansion of the Ridgefield facility, and launched a major fundraising program, which by 1982 allowed construction to begin on a new wing.


   In April 1983 he was among the nine American priests expelled from SSPX because they objected to liturgical changes imposed by Archbishop Lefebvre, as well as to other disturbing leftward trends in the Archbishop’s organization. Thereafter in 1984 Fr. Sanborn established Blessed Sacrament Chapel in Martinez, California.


   After returning to Michigan in 1986, he acquired a large school complex in Warren, a northeast suburb of Detroit. This became the home for Mary Help of Christians Academy, and for Queen of Martyrs Chapel, which in 1999 would later acquire a large church in Fraser, another northeast suburb.


   In 1991 he founded Sacerdotium, a scholarly quarterly for traditional Catholic priests, and Catholic Restoration, a periodical for the Catholic laity. Both immediately acquired a well-deserved reputation for excellence in content and presentation.


   During this period, Fr. Sanborn turned his attention to writing, and produced a series of articles analyzing the errors of Vatican II and John Paul II.


   In 1995, with the encouragement of fellow traditional Catholic priests, he founded Most Holy Trinity Seminary. Fr. Sanborn is eminently qualified to form young men for the priesthood. He has a profound grasp of Thomistic philosophy and of Catholic dogmatic and moral theology, and is an outstanding teacher who is able to communicate his knowledge effectively. In addition to expertise in Latin and a working knowledge of Greek, German and Spanish, he is fluent in French and Italian, and has a broad understanding of Catholic history and culture. He is devoted to the solemnities of the sacred liturgy, and his years as a priest and seminary rector provided him with many insights into priestly spirituality.


   In 1999 Fr. Sanborn began teaching the seminarians a course on the history of modern errors. It was the product of several years of reading and research, and will one day be published as a book.


   In June, 2002, he was consecrated a bishop by the Most Rev. Robert F. McKenna, OP.


   Because Fr. Selway needed to be in a warm climate for health reasons, Bishop Sanborn decided in 2003 to move the seminary from Michigan to Florida. He purchased a small church and school facility in the city of Brooksville in Hernando County, about fifty miles north of Tampa. Shortly thereafter he purchased approximately forty-eight acres, also in Hernando County, on which to build the seminary.


   Work started on the seminary in April of 2005. The seminary obtained occupancy of the building in April of 2008. Bishop Sanborn moved the seminary from Warren, Michigan to Florida in 2005, occupying temporarily the church/school facility, while awaiting the completion of the new seminary building.


   The long-term goal is that Most Holy Trinity Seminary, a novitiate of the Sisters of Saint Thomas Aquinas, and Queen of All Saints Academy occupy the original forty-eight acres which he purchased in 2003. Such a combination of facilities in one location would make for a vibrant parish life, a fine school, and rich and beautiful liturgical ceremonies.


   Bishop Sanborn is currently Rector of the seminary in Brooksville, Florida. He also travels frequently to Mass centers in the United States, and makes occasional visits to Europe, where he meets with both clergy and lay people who share or who are interested in his uncompromising position with regard to the Novus Ordo religion.
Thanks for responding.
I'm not going to debate whether or not Thuc line bishops are validly ordained from a Catholic point of view. I'll just assume that they are for the sake of argument. I don't think Bishop Sanborn can be considered to have apostolic succession. My point is that not even your bishops have authority.
ArchBishop Lefebvre consecrated 4 bishops, do you reject those?  if so why, what are you basing this opinion on?

According to your quote, he was consecrated by McKenna, as LeFebre was too "leftist" for him.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #479 on: August 18, 2017, 01:40:29 PM »
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
Or to anyone of any or no faith, for that matter.  For quoting others is not an example of personal holiness that inspires and attracts others to the same way of life.  Unless, of course, personal holiness is understood as one who follows the letter of the law to the least iota, never learning to love the law giver.  Then, "without love", you just "sound like a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal" (1Cor 13:1).
if I quote the Church fathers or other Catholics more knowledgeable than me why is this  bad thing?

I'm not here to convey personal holiness on a website with strangers. I'm here to present the true faith, this is for love of my neighbor , if I on the other hand tell you everything is ok, just for the sake of human respect or to be liked etc would that be love of my neighbor if the poor soul spends eternity in hell?

You don't quote the Fathers. You repeat very specific picks and distortions over and over and over with no regard for others or for context.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #480 on: August 18, 2017, 02:01:30 PM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.
I didn't say they weren't bishops but bishops without authority.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #481 on: August 19, 2017, 12:15:22 PM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.
I didn't say they weren't bishops but bishops without authority.
I would argue they were validly consecrated bishops ...without authority of apostate Rome is correct.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #482 on: August 19, 2017, 12:17:13 PM »
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
Or to anyone of any or no faith, for that matter.  For quoting others is not an example of personal holiness that inspires and attracts others to the same way of life.  Unless, of course, personal holiness is understood as one who follows the letter of the law to the least iota, never learning to love the law giver.  Then, "without love", you just "sound like a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal" (1Cor 13:1).
if I quote the Church fathers or other Catholics more knowledgeable than me why is this  bad thing?

I'm not here to convey personal holiness on a website with strangers. I'm here to present the true faith, this is for love of my neighbor , if I on the other hand tell you everything is ok, just for the sake of human respect or to be liked etc would that be love of my neighbor if the poor soul spends eternity in hell?

You don't quote the Fathers. You repeat very specific picks and distortions over and over and over with no regard for others or for context.
I quote the fathers and then some, you on the other hand can't be taken seriously..I showed that you agreed to one quote about St Peter as teacher of the whole world in one breath then fight it with scripture in the next breath..as if you know more than the fathers lol

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #483 on: August 19, 2017, 12:35:14 PM »
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
Or to anyone of any or no faith, for that matter.  For quoting others is not an example of personal holiness that inspires and attracts others to the same way of life.  Unless, of course, personal holiness is understood as one who follows the letter of the law to the least iota, never learning to love the law giver.  Then, "without love", you just "sound like a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal" (1Cor 13:1).
if I quote the Church fathers or other Catholics more knowledgeable than me why is this  bad thing?

I'm not here to convey personal holiness on a website with strangers. I'm here to present the true faith, this is for love of my neighbor , if I on the other hand tell you everything is ok, just for the sake of human respect or to be liked etc would that be love of my neighbor if the poor soul spends eternity in hell?

You don't quote the Fathers. You repeat very specific picks and distortions over and over and over with no regard for others or for context.
I quote the fathers and then some, you on the other hand can't be taken seriously..I showed that you agreed to one quote about St Peter as teacher of the whole world in one breath then fight it with scripture in the next breath..as if you know more than the fathers lol

I fought your quote with scriptures? Say it ain't so!
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #484 on: August 19, 2017, 12:45:32 PM »
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
Or to anyone of any or no faith, for that matter.  For quoting others is not an example of personal holiness that inspires and attracts others to the same way of life.  Unless, of course, personal holiness is understood as one who follows the letter of the law to the least iota, never learning to love the law giver.  Then, "without love", you just "sound like a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal" (1Cor 13:1).
if I quote the Church fathers or other Catholics more knowledgeable than me why is this  bad thing?

I'm not here to convey personal holiness on a website with strangers. I'm here to present the true faith, this is for love of my neighbor , if I on the other hand tell you everything is ok, just for the sake of human respect or to be liked etc would that be love of my neighbor if the poor soul spends eternity in hell?

You don't quote the Fathers. You repeat very specific picks and distortions over and over and over with no regard for others or for context.
I quote the fathers and then some, you on the other hand can't be taken seriously..I showed that you agreed to one quote about St Peter as teacher of the whole world in one breath then fight it with scripture in the next breath..as if you know more than the fathers lol

I fought your quote with scriptures? Say it ain't so!

Charles Martel (PBUH) used to say something similar, regarding appeals to Scripture as a Protestant tactic.  As if the holy fathers and random post-schism curial theologians always trumped the Holy Spirit. 
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #485 on: August 19, 2017, 01:33:22 PM »
Do you really think that your manner of writing and arguing here is going to convince any Orthodox?
Or to anyone of any or no faith, for that matter.  For quoting others is not an example of personal holiness that inspires and attracts others to the same way of life.  Unless, of course, personal holiness is understood as one who follows the letter of the law to the least iota, never learning to love the law giver.  Then, "without love", you just "sound like a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal" (1Cor 13:1).
if I quote the Church fathers or other Catholics more knowledgeable than me why is this  bad thing?

I'm not here to convey personal holiness on a website with strangers. I'm here to present the true faith, this is for love of my neighbor , if I on the other hand tell you everything is ok, just for the sake of human respect or to be liked etc would that be love of my neighbor if the poor soul spends eternity in hell?

You don't quote the Fathers. You repeat very specific picks and distortions over and over and over with no regard for others or for context.
I quote the fathers and then some, you on the other hand can't be taken seriously..I showed that you agreed to one quote about St Peter as teacher of the whole world in one breath then fight it with scripture in the next breath..as if you know more than the fathers lol

I fought your quote with scriptures? Say it ain't so!

Charles Martel (PBUH) used to say something similar, regarding appeals to Scripture as a Protestant tactic.  As if the holy fathers and random post-schism curial theologians always trumped the Holy Spirit.

;D
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #486 on: August 19, 2017, 07:25:20 PM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.
I didn't say they weren't bishops but bishops without authority.
I would argue they were validly consecrated bishops ...without authority of apostate Rome is correct.
So is all that is required for a bishop to have apostolic succession is that they are validly ordained? There would be no way to tell where the hierarchy is. We would have to be our own magisterium too. Does an Old Catholic bishop have apostolic succession?

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #487 on: August 20, 2017, 12:01:40 AM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.
I didn't say they weren't bishops but bishops without authority.
I would argue they were validly consecrated bishops ...without authority of apostate Rome is correct.
So is all that is required for a bishop to have apostolic succession is that they are validly ordained? There would be no way to tell where the hierarchy is. We would have to be our own magisterium too. Does an Old Catholic bishop have apostolic succession?

from MHFM
The “Old Catholics” reject Papal Infallibility and the dogmatic decrees of Vatican I.  They are unfortunately heretics and schismatics.
Here are the strong words of Pope Pius IX about the “Old Catholics”:

    Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (#'s 1-4), March 23, 1875: "… the new heretics who call themselves 'Old Catholics'... these schismatics and heretics... their wicked sect... these sons of darkness... their wicked faction… this deplorable sect… This sect overthrows the foundations of the Catholic religion, shamelessly rejects the dogmatic definitions of the Ecumenical Vatican Council, and devotes itself to the ruin of souls in so many ways.  We have decreed and declared in Our letter of 21 November 1873 that those unfortunate men who belong to, adhere to, and support that sect should be considered as schismatics and separated from communion with the Church."

Pope Pius IX solemnly declared that Catholics must regard those as schismatics and separated from the Church who belong to, adhere to and support the sect of the “Old Catholics.”

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #488 on: August 20, 2017, 12:08:45 AM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
no the Church of Christ sayeth, convert and save your soul

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved

Papism is not the Church of Christ, it's a schismatic and heretical sect.
the papacy is biblical, proven here numerous times

The Novus Ordo is biblical, proven lots of places numerous times.

Yes, but it is Biblical in a Protestant sense.
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #489 on: August 20, 2017, 12:42:21 AM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.
I didn't say they weren't bishops but bishops without authority.
I would argue they were validly consecrated bishops ...without authority of apostate Rome is correct.
So is all that is required for a bishop to have apostolic succession is that they are validly ordained? There would be no way to tell where the hierarchy is. We would have to be our own magisterium too. Does an Old Catholic bishop have apostolic succession?

from MHFM
The “Old Catholics” reject Papal Infallibility and the dogmatic decrees of Vatican I.  They are unfortunately heretics and schismatics.
Here are the strong words of Pope Pius IX about the “Old Catholics”:

    Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (#'s 1-4), March 23, 1875: "… the new heretics who call themselves 'Old Catholics'... these schismatics and heretics... their wicked sect... these sons of darkness... their wicked faction… this deplorable sect… This sect overthrows the foundations of the Catholic religion, shamelessly rejects the dogmatic definitions of the Ecumenical Vatican Council, and devotes itself to the ruin of souls in so many ways.  We have decreed and declared in Our letter of 21 November 1873 that those unfortunate men who belong to, adhere to, and support that sect should be considered as schismatics and separated from communion with the Church."

Pope Pius IX solemnly declared that Catholics must regard those as schismatics and separated from the Church who belong to, adhere to and support the sect of the “Old Catholics.”

You're just a one-man comedy routine, aren't you?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #490 on: August 20, 2017, 02:16:33 AM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.
I didn't say they weren't bishops but bishops without authority.
I would argue they were validly consecrated bishops ...without authority of apostate Rome is correct.
So is all that is required for a bishop to have apostolic succession is that they are validly ordained? There would be no way to tell where the hierarchy is. We would have to be our own magisterium too. Does an Old Catholic bishop have apostolic succession?

from MHFM
The “Old Catholics” reject Papal Infallibility and the dogmatic decrees of Vatican I.  They are unfortunately heretics and schismatics.
Here are the strong words of Pope Pius IX about the “Old Catholics”:

    Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (#'s 1-4), March 23, 1875: "… the new heretics who call themselves 'Old Catholics'... these schismatics and heretics... their wicked sect... these sons of darkness... their wicked faction… this deplorable sect… This sect overthrows the foundations of the Catholic religion, shamelessly rejects the dogmatic definitions of the Ecumenical Vatican Council, and devotes itself to the ruin of souls in so many ways.  We have decreed and declared in Our letter of 21 November 1873 that those unfortunate men who belong to, adhere to, and support that sect should be considered as schismatics and separated from communion with the Church."

Pope Pius IX solemnly declared that Catholics must regard those as schismatics and separated from the Church who belong to, adhere to and support the sect of the “Old Catholics.”
So if an old catholic bishop repented of his heresies and started to believe in the proper things would he then become a successor of the apostles? I'm not very articulate so please forgive my round about way of getting to my point. Do you think that Anybody who is not a heretic that is consecrated a bishop is a successor to the apostles? Also, how do you have any assurance that you have not strayed away from the Catholic Church and became schismatic yourself if even your bishops have no authority over you? Or, how do you know that they are not in schism, because there is no proof of unity? I appreciate your answers.

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #491 on: August 20, 2017, 08:31:52 AM »
The New Testament tells us that this deception will happen in the very heart of the Church’s
physical structures,
in “the Temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4) and “in the holy place” (Mt. 24:15). 
It will arise because people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

Most Church Fathers would disagree with such an interpretation; the most immediate example that comes to mind is Saint John of Damascus's interpretation:

"The Jews accordingly did not receive the Lord Jesus Christ who was the Son of God and God, but receive the impostor who calls himself God. For that he will assume the name of God, the angel teaches Daniel, saying these words, Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers. And the apostle says: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition: who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God; in the temple of God he said; not our temple, but the old Jewish temple. For he will come not to us but to the Jews: not for Christ or the things of Christ: wherefore he is called Antichrist."

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/33044.

The idea that the Antichrist will be enthroned in Rome and exist within the physical structures of the church seem to be from the "La Salette apparitions of the Virgin Mary," in which Our Lady seems to speak blasphemy:

"I gave you six days to work; I kept the seventh for myself, and no one wishes to grant it to me. This is what weighs down the arm of my Son so much."

Generally that's how the devil works: he gives you mostly orthodox ideas, but adds a very subtle drop of heresy that poisons the whole faith. It's like a gasoline tank with a tiny hole; you don't want to run your car with that problem.

Such tactics remind me of the Bayside apparitions, which both of us can admit are demonic - how the vision just subtly slipped in the idea that test tube babies aren't human beings.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 08:38:33 AM by LivenotoneviL »

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #492 on: August 21, 2017, 11:15:19 PM »
if I quote the Church fathers or other Catholics more knowledgeable than me why is this  bad thing?
Why don't you provide links to your sources?  Because the quotes you so liberally use cannot be found in publicly available editions of the PL and the PG.
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ!

Offline ConfusedRC

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #493 on: August 25, 2017, 09:46:00 PM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.
I didn't say they weren't bishops but bishops without authority.
I would argue they were validly consecrated bishops ...without authority of apostate Rome is correct.
So is all that is required for a bishop to have apostolic succession is that they are validly ordained? There would be no way to tell where the hierarchy is. We would have to be our own magisterium too. Does an Old Catholic bishop have apostolic succession?

from MHFM
The “Old Catholics” reject Papal Infallibility and the dogmatic decrees of Vatican I.  They are unfortunately heretics and schismatics.
Here are the strong words of Pope Pius IX about the “Old Catholics”:

    Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (#'s 1-4), March 23, 1875: "… the new heretics who call themselves 'Old Catholics'... these schismatics and heretics... their wicked sect... these sons of darkness... their wicked faction… this deplorable sect… This sect overthrows the foundations of the Catholic religion, shamelessly rejects the dogmatic definitions of the Ecumenical Vatican Council, and devotes itself to the ruin of souls in so many ways.  We have decreed and declared in Our letter of 21 November 1873 that those unfortunate men who belong to, adhere to, and support that sect should be considered as schismatics and separated from communion with the Church."

Pope Pius IX solemnly declared that Catholics must regard those as schismatics and separated from the Church who belong to, adhere to and support the sect of the “Old Catholics.”

It's not possible to quote MHFM and win an argument.
I am no longer a "confused Roman Catholic" as I joined the Orthodox Church in April 2016.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #494 on: August 25, 2017, 11:06:34 PM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.
I didn't say they weren't bishops but bishops without authority.
I would argue they were validly consecrated bishops ...without authority of apostate Rome is correct.
So is all that is required for a bishop to have apostolic succession is that they are validly ordained? There would be no way to tell where the hierarchy is. We would have to be our own magisterium too. Does an Old Catholic bishop have apostolic succession?

from MHFM
The “Old Catholics” reject Papal Infallibility and the dogmatic decrees of Vatican I.  They are unfortunately heretics and schismatics.
Here are the strong words of Pope Pius IX about the “Old Catholics”:

    Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (#'s 1-4), March 23, 1875: "… the new heretics who call themselves 'Old Catholics'... these schismatics and heretics... their wicked sect... these sons of darkness... their wicked faction… this deplorable sect… This sect overthrows the foundations of the Catholic religion, shamelessly rejects the dogmatic definitions of the Ecumenical Vatican Council, and devotes itself to the ruin of souls in so many ways.  We have decreed and declared in Our letter of 21 November 1873 that those unfortunate men who belong to, adhere to, and support that sect should be considered as schismatics and separated from communion with the Church."

Pope Pius IX solemnly declared that Catholics must regard those as schismatics and separated from the Church who belong to, adhere to and support the sect of the “Old Catholics.”

It's not possible to quote MHFM and win an argument.
you don't make any sense