Author Topic: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic  (Read 23016 times)

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Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #225 on: July 14, 2017, 02:53:29 PM »
To all those who think that private revelations or miracles could be used as a means to determine which church is the church: Forget it. Fatima does not prove that Catholicism is right, the Jerusalem Easter fire or some holy water freshness competition does not prove that Orthodoxy is right. This is all nonsense. I am not saying miracles do not happen - they certainly do - but revelation ended with the death of the last apostle. Period. Fatima and Easter fires are completely irrelevant. It is beneficial to remember Deuteronomy 6,16.

Now here's an interesting claim.

For the record, I believe it's an untrue claim. The Apostles were given a special mission, it can't be denied, and possibly combinations of gifts unique to themselves, I don't know, but they were hardly alone in an access of the Holy Spirit. The teaching that Christ's promises were for the Twelve alone is popular in Protestant circles but often leads to preterism and other heresies.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm
#21

So you're recanting?
No. Read carefully: It is a list of errors to be condemned.

Gotcha. Well, it's a good thing the rhetoric of Lord Cardinals and General Inquisitors are chaff. On the surface, it's bizarre that a church which pronounces the infallibility of its magisterium would condemn those who say "revelation" did not end with the Bible. On the other hand, sophistries that have no real purpose but to daze opposition on behalf of the Vicar of Christ are a thousand-year-old tradition and shouldn't surprise anyone.
Obviously, there is a lot of difference between (public) revelation and the magisterium. This has nothing to do with sophistry. Really, don't try to hook into each and every statement, even if there is nothing much to criticize.
Sanctus Deus, Sanctus fortis, Sanctus immortalis, miserere nobis.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #226 on: July 14, 2017, 02:55:31 PM »
To all those who think that private revelations or miracles could be used as a means to determine which church is the church: Forget it. Fatima does not prove that Catholicism is right, the Jerusalem Easter fire or some holy water freshness competition does not prove that Orthodoxy is right. This is all nonsense. I am not saying miracles do not happen - they certainly do - but revelation ended with the death of the last apostle. Period. Fatima and Easter fires are completely irrelevant. It is beneficial to remember Deuteronomy 6,16.

Now here's an interesting claim.

For the record, I believe it's an untrue claim. The Apostles were given a special mission, it can't be denied, and possibly combinations of gifts unique to themselves, I don't know, but they were hardly alone in an access of the Holy Spirit. The teaching that Christ's promises were for the Twelve alone is popular in Protestant circles but often leads to preterism and other heresies.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm
#21

So you're recanting?
No. Read carefully: It is a list of errors to be condemned.

Gotcha. Well, it's a good thing the rhetoric of Lord Cardinals and General Inquisitors are chaff. On the surface, it's bizarre that a church which pronounces the infallibility of its magisterium would condemn those who say "revelation" did not end with the Bible. On the other hand, sophistries that have no real purpose but to daze opposition on behalf of the Vicar of Christ are a thousand-year-old tradition and shouldn't surprise anyone.
Obviously, there is a lot of difference between (public) revelation and the magisterium. This has nothing to do with sophistry. Really, don't try to hook into each and every statement, even if there is nothing much to criticize.

If the assertion is untrue, and it affects the Church and believers, then it is hardly "nothing much." Fascinating that you yourself can specifically see the conflict is between revelation and the Pope, yet you can't see that as a problem.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #227 on: July 14, 2017, 03:05:53 PM »
To all those who think that private revelations or miracles could be used as a means to determine which church is the church: Forget it. Fatima does not prove that Catholicism is right, the Jerusalem Easter fire or some holy water freshness competition does not prove that Orthodoxy is right. This is all nonsense. I am not saying miracles do not happen - they certainly do - but revelation ended with the death of the last apostle. Period. Fatima and Easter fires are completely irrelevant. It is beneficial to remember Deuteronomy 6,16.

Now here's an interesting claim.

For the record, I believe it's an untrue claim. The Apostles were given a special mission, it can't be denied, and possibly combinations of gifts unique to themselves, I don't know, but they were hardly alone in an access of the Holy Spirit. The teaching that Christ's promises were for the Twelve alone is popular in Protestant circles but often leads to preterism and other heresies.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm
#21

So you're recanting?
No. Read carefully: It is a list of errors to be condemned.

Gotcha. Well, it's a good thing the rhetoric of Lord Cardinals and General Inquisitors are chaff. On the surface, it's bizarre that a church which pronounces the infallibility of its magisterium would condemn those who say "revelation" did not end with the Bible. On the other hand, sophistries that have no real purpose but to daze opposition on behalf of the Vicar of Christ are a thousand-year-old tradition and shouldn't surprise anyone.
Obviously, there is a lot of difference between (public) revelation and the magisterium. This has nothing to do with sophistry. Really, don't try to hook into each and every statement, even if there is nothing much to criticize.

If the assertion is untrue, and it affects the Church and believers, then it is hardly "nothing much." Fascinating that you yourself can specifically see the conflict is between revelation and the Pope, yet you can't see that as a problem.
Fascinating how you can turn my "difference between revelation and magisterium" into a "conflict between revelation and the pope". There's no such conflict.
Sanctus Deus, Sanctus fortis, Sanctus immortalis, miserere nobis.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #228 on: July 14, 2017, 03:25:19 PM »
Then there's no need for such a dogma.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #229 on: July 14, 2017, 06:58:49 PM »
Would you like a Church to pray for you hundreds of years? read here http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,71921.new.html#new
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Offline WPM

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #230 on: July 14, 2017, 07:18:28 PM »
Mainly because of following Christ all these years.
For questions about the history of the Lutheran faith see the Book of Concord available from Pastor's office.

Formula of Concord 1577

A restatement of some teachings in the Augsburg Confession over which Lutherans had become divided. The Solid Declaration is the unabridged version. The Epitome is an abridged version intended for congregations to study. Over 8,100 pastors and theologians signed it, as well as over 50 government leaders.



WELS/ELCA/LCMS Church Pastor's Word

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #231 on: July 15, 2017, 05:40:05 AM »
Quote
As someone else said above, it was seen in other places in Western Europe, not just in that one town.

In any case, your reasoning is not good.  Natural phenomena like solar eclipses are not "visible from the whole world (or half the planet)", yet they are "real events"
My reasoning is: If the sun was really dancing, coming closer to earth and moving around all the while emitting very strange lights it should be visible and confirmed by atleast by half the planet, not by limited people in few limited places.

So i remain highly suspicious.

But i tell you what, if Russian Orthodox Church converts to the pope, this will change my mind to more optimistic approach but till then, i am highly suspicious of this.


Offline pasadi97

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #232 on: July 15, 2017, 09:05:06 AM »
Also in scriptrure says that the gates of the Hell will not overcome the Church so we need to find the Church started in JERUSALEM by Apostles, where is it today because it exists see because gates of hell did not overcome it.

So who can trace from Apostles Church , Catholics or Orthodox.

I let a cathoilic present the history of his Church but as an orthodox this is the History of my Church: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Orthodox_Patriarch_of_Jerusalem

As you see it was started in jerusalem by the 12 Apostles until today, it is the Church that gates of Hell could not overcome it.

I want to see the same from catholics but it is impossible.

There you are with biblical church, eastern orthodoxy that gates of hell could not overcome it.

Be aware thAt Bible said if you make a hole for somebody else you may fall into it. That is if you are misleading somebody you may be mislead in the end by somebody else so you may end in the wrong church that instead of life offers death and you may be in trouble.

Did gates of hell overcome Catholic Church?
Well the most important position, the master of money belongs to a non christian.



St Mary appeared in Egypt too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgForYvEbNQ Does it mean Egypt orthodox Church is the true one?

No, miracles happen in different religions that pray to God.

Every time God is asked what is the true Church the answer is invariably Eastern orthodox Church.

I believe and trust in God. If other people trust in somebody else is their business.

Orthodox and Catholics asked GOD to be told which Church is true by making the true Church Holy water crisp . Orthodox Holy water was made crisp, Catholic HolY Water was made foul.

That is enough to me.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 09:08:18 AM by pasadi97 »
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Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #233 on: July 15, 2017, 10:29:40 AM »
Quote
As someone else said above, it was seen in other places in Western Europe, not just in that one town.

In any case, your reasoning is not good.  Natural phenomena like solar eclipses are not "visible from the whole world (or half the planet)", yet they are "real events"
My reasoning is: If the sun was really dancing, coming closer to earth and moving around all the while emitting very strange lights it should be visible and confirmed by atleast by half the planet, not by limited people in few limited places.

So i remain highly suspicious.

But i tell you what, if Russian Orthodox Church converts to the pope, this will change my mind to more optimistic approach but till then, i am highly suspicious of this.



Some Tradition Catholics believe that if the Pope consecrates Russia to Immaculate Heart of Mary, Russia will accept Catholicism. That is mean the  Patriarch of Moscow will submit to Pope of Rome.
However, according to Sister Lucia of Fatima, the Russia’s prophecy was fulfilled.
But many traditional Catholics do not believe that.
They blame Russia for all the problems in the West, like homosexual, destruction of family, abortion, and  Pornography...
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #234 on: July 15, 2017, 11:46:17 AM »
Quote
As someone else said above, it was seen in other places in Western Europe, not just in that one town.

In any case, your reasoning is not good.  Natural phenomena like solar eclipses are not "visible from the whole world (or half the planet)", yet they are "real events"
My reasoning is: If the sun was really dancing, coming closer to earth and moving around all the while emitting very strange lights it should be visible and confirmed by atleast by half the planet, not by limited people in few limited places.

So i remain highly suspicious.

But i tell you what, if Russian Orthodox Church converts to the pope, this will change my mind to more optimistic approach but till then, i am highly suspicious of this.

I'm not trying to convince you of Fatima.  I'm pointing out that your reasoning is flawed. 
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #235 on: July 15, 2017, 11:47:03 AM »
Also in scriptrure says that the gates of the Hell will not overcome the Church so we need to find the Church started in JERUSALEM by Apostles, where is it today because it exists see because gates of hell did not overcome it.

So who can trace from Apostles Church , Catholics or Orthodox.

I let a cathoilic present the history of his Church but as an orthodox this is the History of my Church: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Orthodox_Patriarch_of_Jerusalem

As you see it was started in jerusalem by the 12 Apostles until today, it is the Church that gates of Hell could not overcome it.

I want to see the same from catholics but it is impossible.

There you are with biblical church, eastern orthodoxy that gates of hell could not overcome it.

Be aware thAt Bible said if you make a hole for somebody else you may fall into it. That is if you are misleading somebody you may be mislead in the end by somebody else so you may end in the wrong church that instead of life offers death and you may be in trouble.

Did gates of hell overcome Catholic Church?
Well the most important position, the master of money belongs to a non christian.



St Mary appeared in Egypt too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgForYvEbNQ Does it mean Egypt orthodox Church is the true one?

No, miracles happen in different religions that pray to God.

Every time God is asked what is the true Church the answer is invariably Eastern orthodox Church.

I believe and trust in God. If other people trust in somebody else is their business.

Orthodox and Catholics asked GOD to be told which Church is true by making the true Church Holy water crisp . Orthodox Holy water was made crisp, Catholic HolY Water was made foul.

That is enough to me.

Saints Holy Water and Youtube videos, have mercy on us!
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #236 on: July 15, 2017, 11:48:27 AM »
Quote
As someone else said above, it was seen in other places in Western Europe, not just in that one town.

In any case, your reasoning is not good.  Natural phenomena like solar eclipses are not "visible from the whole world (or half the planet)", yet they are "real events"
My reasoning is: If the sun was really dancing, coming closer to earth and moving around all the while emitting very strange lights it should be visible and confirmed by atleast by half the planet, not by limited people in few limited places.

So i remain highly suspicious.

But i tell you what, if Russian Orthodox Church converts to the pope, this will change my mind to more optimistic approach but till then, i am highly suspicious of this.



Some Tradition Catholics believe that if the Pope consecrates Russia to Immaculate Heart of Mary, Russia will accept Catholicism. That is mean the  Patriarch of Moscow will submit to Pope of Rome.
However, according to Sister Lucia of Fatima, the Russia’s prophecy was fulfilled.
But many traditional Catholics do not believe that.
They blame Russia for all the problems in the West, like homosexual, destruction of family, abortion, and  Pornography...
Anthony you should not listen to anyone who doesn't believe in the miracles of Fatima, or who reject the Catholic faith of St Francis of Assisi and St Thomas Aquinas  etc, there are a lot of lost souls here, for now stay at the sspx unless your priest starts talking favourably of Vatican 2 or starts talking liberal...if they ever make an agreement with Rome then you can no longer attend them either...convert to the traditional Catholic faith to save your soul

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #237 on: July 15, 2017, 11:56:56 AM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #238 on: July 15, 2017, 12:04:26 PM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.
..just because some people who profess to be traditional catholics start talking nonsense and liberal,or want to have an agreement with apostate Rome..doesn't equate to traditional Catholicism being in error or prove the faith to be wrong or fallen to the NWO...don't confuse the people to the true faith...not sure if that was what you were alluding to

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #239 on: July 15, 2017, 12:15:02 PM »
Quote
Anthony you should not listen to anyone who doesn't believe in the miracles of Fatima, or who reject the Catholic faith
Quote
St Thomas Aquinas
You mean the guy who in his "theology" demoted the Lord, the Holy Spirit to the grace of the Father and the Son and then began to philosophize that grace is created ?

Quote
St Francis of Assisi
On the prelest of francis of asisi see this

francis of asisi acted very much in the spirit of the times, like a rockstar guru, a substitution for Christ, the vatican II popes act in likewise manner, not like true patriarchs but like rockstar-gurus, promoting the utopian earthly kingdom of the antichrist.

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #240 on: July 15, 2017, 12:22:24 PM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.
..just because some people who profess to be traditional catholics start talking nonsense and liberal,or want to have an agreement with apostate Rome..doesn't equate to traditional Catholicism being in error or prove the faith to be wrong or fallen to the NWO...don't confuse the people to the true faith...not sure if that was what you were alluding to

Hmm... if you're ever in the Pittsburgh area, look up Mr. Belvedere, who I believe is still working for Bob Eucker, he really knows more about this stuff than I do.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #241 on: July 15, 2017, 12:26:15 PM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.
..just because some people who profess to be traditional catholics start talking nonsense and liberal,or want to have an agreement with apostate Rome..doesn't equate to traditional Catholicism being in error or prove the faith to be wrong or fallen to the NWO...don't confuse the people to the true faith...not sure if that was what you were alluding to

Hmm... if you're ever in the Pittsburgh area, look up Mr. Belvedere, who I believe is still working for Bob Eucker, he really knows more about this stuff than I do.
I'm telling you to be saved you must convert to the Catholic faith, don't concern yourself with a Zuckerberg or this lost soul here who insulted St Francis of Assisi ....put more effort towards your salvation son...I don't want you to burn 

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #242 on: July 15, 2017, 12:28:48 PM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.
..just because some people who profess to be traditional catholics start talking nonsense and liberal,or want to have an agreement with apostate Rome..doesn't equate to traditional Catholicism being in error or prove the faith to be wrong or fallen to the NWO...don't confuse the people to the true faith...not sure if that was what you were alluding to

Hmm... if you're ever in the Pittsburgh area, look up Mr. Belvedere, who I believe is still working for Bob Eucker, he really knows more about this stuff than I do.
I'm telling you to be saved you must convert to the Catholic faith, don't concern yourself with a Zuckerberg or this lost soul here who insulted St Francis of Assisi ....put more effort towards your salvation son...I don't want you to burn

This is a great act. Entertaining persona. To bad it's a little blasphemous.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #243 on: July 15, 2017, 12:47:04 PM »
Orthodox and Catholics asked GOD to be told which Church is true by making the true Church Holy water crisp . Orthodox Holy water was made crisp, Catholic HolY Water was made foul.

That is enough to me.

If God and sevdevacantist and pope disagree I trust God therefore I believe Orthodoxy is true.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #244 on: July 15, 2017, 12:49:51 PM »
sedevacantist needs to ask God not people which Church is true.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #245 on: July 15, 2017, 12:53:58 PM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.
..just because some people who profess to be traditional catholics start talking nonsense and liberal,or want to have an agreement with apostate Rome..doesn't equate to traditional Catholicism being in error or prove the faith to be wrong or fallen to the NWO...don't confuse the people to the true faith...not sure if that was what you were alluding to

Hmm... if you're ever in the Pittsburgh area, look up Mr. Belvedere, who I believe is still working for Bob Eucker, he really knows more about this stuff than I do.
I'm telling you to be saved you must convert to the Catholic faith, don't concern yourself with a Zuckerberg or this lost soul here who insulted St Francis of Assisi ....put more effort towards your salvation son...I don't want you to burn

This is a great act. Entertaining persona. To bad it's a little blasphemous.
blasphemous because I want to save souls? I spoke to an orthodox priest the other day,talked about divorce, he said the bible states you can divorce for adultery...I said no,you can separate for adultery but can not remarry unless your spouse dies....just 1 example of how the orthodox are wrong and the Catholic correct....anybody here feel free to give me scripture that you think supports the orthodox view

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #246 on: July 15, 2017, 12:57:16 PM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.
..just because some people who profess to be traditional catholics start talking nonsense and liberal,or want to have an agreement with apostate Rome..doesn't equate to traditional Catholicism being in error or prove the faith to be wrong or fallen to the NWO...don't confuse the people to the true faith...not sure if that was what you were alluding to

Hmm... if you're ever in the Pittsburgh area, look up Mr. Belvedere, who I believe is still working for Bob Eucker, he really knows more about this stuff than I do.
I'm telling you to be saved you must convert to the Catholic faith, don't concern yourself with a Zuckerberg or this lost soul here who insulted St Francis of Assisi ....put more effort towards your salvation son...I don't want you to burn

This is a great act. Entertaining persona. To bad it's a little blasphemous.
blasphemous because I want to save souls? I spoke to an orthodox priest the other day,talked about divorce, he said the bible states you can divorce for adultery...I said no,you can separate for adultery but can not remarry unless your spouse dies....just 1 example of how the orthodox are wrong and the Catholic correct....anybody here feel free to give me scripture that you think supports the orthodox view

Again, this is entertaining. However, playing you are God is going to come to an abrupt halt once you face Him who is really God. Better you submit now.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #247 on: July 15, 2017, 01:11:11 PM »
Quote
I spoke to an orthodox priest the other day,talked about divorce, he said the bible states you can divorce for adultery...I said no,you can separate for adultery but can not remarry unless your spouse dies....just 1 example of how the orthodox are wrong and the Catholic correct....anybody here feel free to give me scripture that you think supports the orthodox view
Well, you are correct on this, a pharisaic type of correct.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 01:11:40 PM by Vanhyo »

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #248 on: July 15, 2017, 01:13:34 PM »
anybody here feel free to give me scripture that you think supports the orthodox view

"Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matt. 18:18)

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #249 on: July 15, 2017, 01:14:20 PM »
The problem is that sedevacantists will not be able to tell you when and how the seat will be taken again. It's a dead-end street without perspective. Nothing short of the second coming could help their case. They know that - that is why millennialism and generally panic mode is so commonly found.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 01:16:03 PM by Lepanto »
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Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #250 on: July 15, 2017, 01:16:07 PM »
The problem is that sedevacantists will not be able to tell you when and how the seat will be taken again. It's a dead-end street without perspective. Nothing short of the second coming will help their case. They know that - that is why millennialism and generally panic mode is so commonly found.

The position of Sedevacantists doesn't make sense for me either.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #251 on: July 15, 2017, 01:35:13 PM »
But i tell you what, if Russian Orthodox Church converts to the pope, this will change my mind to more optimistic approach but till then, i am highly suspicious of this.

First there was papal infallibility, then conciliar infallibility, and then Biblical infallibility.  But now we have Russianfallibility! 
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #252 on: July 16, 2017, 12:50:37 AM »
Anthony you should not listen to anyone who doesn't believe in the miracles of Fatima, or who reject the Catholic faith of St Francis of Assisi and St Thomas Aquinas  etc
Fatima was a private revelation, so no Catholic has to believe it.  And why would you reject those who embrace the faith of St. Gregory the Great, St. Benedict or St. Augustine, like St. Francis of Assisi and St. Thomas Aquinas did?
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #253 on: July 16, 2017, 12:53:47 AM »
The miracles of Fatima aren't even persuading the Portuguese and French, how could they persuade us? I've never understood this logic.
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Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #254 on: July 16, 2017, 07:06:22 AM »
So what is the individual Orthodox Christians opinions?

About the miracle of sun , it is impossible that 70,000 people got hilarious...

However, In Fatima apparition, the Mother of God did not act like the Theotokos in scripture at all...

I know even RC said it is not dogma, not require to believe....However, I am very curious is Fatima apparition from God?

 
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #255 on: July 16, 2017, 08:05:27 AM »
Its the little white communion wafer the priest says while holding it over the cup.
For questions about the history of the Lutheran faith see the Book of Concord available from Pastor's office.

Formula of Concord 1577

A restatement of some teachings in the Augsburg Confession over which Lutherans had become divided. The Solid Declaration is the unabridged version. The Epitome is an abridged version intended for congregations to study. Over 8,100 pastors and theologians signed it, as well as over 50 government leaders.



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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #256 on: July 16, 2017, 12:01:39 PM »
So what is the individual Orthodox Christians opinions?

About the miracle of sun , it is impossible that 70,000 people got hilarious...

However, In Fatima apparition, the Mother of God did not act like the Theotokos in scripture at all...

I know even RC said it is not dogma, not require to believe....However, I am very curious is Fatima apparition from God?

 

No idea.
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Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #257 on: July 16, 2017, 02:48:43 PM »
anybody here feel free to give me scripture that you think supports the orthodox view

"Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matt. 18:18)
you are not making sense,I'm asking for scripture that supports the remarrying as is done in the orthodox church...

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #258 on: July 16, 2017, 02:50:48 PM »
The miracles of Fatima aren't even persuading the Portuguese and French, how could they persuade us? I've never understood this logic.
don't understand what you are babbling about, obviously there's a difference between 1917 people of Portugal (many were persuaded) to people of today (mostly modernists ) too busy looking at their I phone...have you done any research on this?

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #259 on: July 16, 2017, 02:52:36 PM »
The problem is that sedevacantists will not be able to tell you when and how the seat will be taken again. It's a dead-end street without perspective. Nothing short of the second coming will help their case. They know that - that is why millennialism and generally panic mode is so commonly found.

The position of Sedevacantists doesn't make sense for me either.
if it doesn't make sense it's because you haven't looked into it in depth...the opposite of the sede position is to believe Francis is Catholic (he's not) ,that he's not a heretic (he is) ..the teaching of the Church is a heretic can not be a true pope.

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #260 on: July 16, 2017, 02:54:32 PM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.
..just because some people who profess to be traditional catholics start talking nonsense and liberal,or want to have an agreement with apostate Rome..doesn't equate to traditional Catholicism being in error or prove the faith to be wrong or fallen to the NWO...don't confuse the people to the true faith...not sure if that was what you were alluding to

Hmm... if you're ever in the Pittsburgh area, look up Mr. Belvedere, who I believe is still working for Bob Eucker, he really knows more about this stuff than I do.
I'm telling you to be saved you must convert to the Catholic faith, don't concern yourself with a Zuckerberg or this lost soul here who insulted St Francis of Assisi ....put more effort towards your salvation son...I don't want you to burn

This is a great act. Entertaining persona. To bad it's a little blasphemous.
blasphemous because I want to save souls? I spoke to an orthodox priest the other day,talked about divorce, he said the bible states you can divorce for adultery...I said no,you can separate for adultery but can not remarry unless your spouse dies....just 1 example of how the orthodox are wrong and the Catholic correct....anybody here feel free to give me scripture that you think supports the orthodox view

Again, this is entertaining. However, playing you are God is going to come to an abrupt halt once you face Him who is really God. Better you submit now.
now I am playing God? are you ok? trying to save souls is playing God...stating I believe God has revealed to us the true faith is blasphemous?...stop being ridiculous

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #261 on: July 16, 2017, 03:01:28 PM »
Quote
..the teaching of the Church is a heretic can not be a true pope.
The pre vatican II Rome teaches:
- Rome will always preach the correct faith
- that you have to be in communion with the pope in order to call yourself catholic
- the general idea of papal infallibility is that he cannot fail preaching correct so you should always be looking at Rome for a guide.

if it doesn't make sense it's because you haven't looked into it in depth...the opposite of the sede position is to believe Francis is Catholic (he's not)
Hate you be a combo breaker but there hasn't been an Orthodox Pope since 1054, this is when they broke the canons of the Church and were officially kicked out.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 03:01:51 PM by Vanhyo »

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #262 on: July 16, 2017, 03:32:39 PM »
Quote
..the teaching of the Church is a heretic can not be a true pope.
The pre vatican II Rome teaches:
- Rome will always preach the correct faith
- that you have to be in communion with the pope in order to call yourself catholic
- the general idea of papal infallibility is that he cannot fail preaching correct so you should always be looking at Rome for a guide.

if it doesn't make sense it's because you haven't looked into it in depth...the opposite of the sede position is to believe Francis is Catholic (he's not)
Hate you be a combo breaker but there hasn't been an Orthodox Pope since 1054, this is when they broke the canons of the Church and were officially kicked out.
not sure why I should bother debating with you on this subject as you are not even a catholic

St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306:  "Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church

and obviously 1054 is when the east broke off from the true Church, it's never too late to convert

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #263 on: July 16, 2017, 03:37:01 PM »
Quote
St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306:  "Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church
Can you give me an example of how do you know when a pope is explicitly a heretic ?

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #264 on: July 16, 2017, 05:50:13 PM »
Quote
St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306:  "Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church
Can you give me an example of how do you know when a pope is explicitly a heretic ?

The Catholic Church teaches that there is only one true religion and the rest are false. The Catholic Church teaches that pagan religions (such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Voodooism, etc.), which worship various “gods,” actually worship demons, since all the gods of the heathen are the devils.


Psalms 95:5- “For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils…”

1 Cor. 10:20- “But the things which the heathens sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God. And I would not that you should be made partakers with devils.”

St. Paul says that when the pagans worship their gods they are worshipping devils, and he doesn’t want you to be in communion with devils. The Vatican II sect, however, endorses these false religions which commit idolatry and worship devils. This is unspeakably evil; it is a total rejection of the teaching of the Gospel and the Catholic Church, and it is condemned as apostasy by Pope Pius XI in Mortalium Animos.




At the notorious interfaith “ecumenical prayer gatherings” – the most well-known occurring at Assisi in 1986 and 2002 – religious leaders from all the major false religions were invited to pray alongside John Paul II at a “Catholic” church




Each religion was invited to offer its own prayer for peace – blasphemous prayers, for instance, as the Hindu prayer said: “Peace be on all gods.” But their gods are devils, as we saw above, so peace was being prayed for all the devils (who created these false religions) at the Vatican-sponsored World Day of Prayer for Peace. The Vatican II religion wants you to be in communion with devils.




Most heresy and apostasy is manifested by deed, not word. People manifest their heresy and apostasy by attending the synagogue or by worshipping at the mosque or by joining the Protestants in their worship at their churches.


St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Pt. I-II, Q. 103., A. 4: “All ceremonies are professions of faith, in which the interior worship of God consists. Now man can make profession of his inward faith, by deeds as well as by words: and in either profession, if he make a false declSo, when John Paul II and now Benedict XVI (with high-ranking members of the Vatican II sect) attend the mosque, the Buddhist Temple, the Lutheran temple and the synagogue they are manifesting their apostasy by their deed. They are manifesting by their deed that they accept these false religions, and that these people don’t need to become Catholic for salvation. When Benedict XVI entered the synagogue and took active part in a Jewish worship service on August 19, 2005, he was manifesting his apostasy (his acceptance of the false Jewish religion) by his deed. That is why St. Thomas Aquinas taught that if anyone were to worship at the tomb of Mohammed he would be an apostate. Such an action alone would show that he does not have the Catholic Faith, and that he accepts the false Islamic religion.aration, he sins mortally.”

St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Pt. II, Q. 12, A. 1, Obj. 2: “… if anyone were to… worship at the tomb of Mahomet, he would be deemed an apostate.”






The “Orthodox” Schismatics reject the Papacy, Papal Infallibility and approximately the last 13 dogmatic councils of the Catholic Church. But the Vatican II teaches that the Eastern “Orthodox” don’t need to believe in the Papacy and accept the Catholic Faith for salvation. The Vatican II sect issued the official Balamand Statement with the Orthodox (see below), which declared that they have no obligation to convert to the Catholic Faith for salvation. John Paul II approved of this agreement and taught the same many times.




Vatican II Sect’s Balamand Statement with the “Orthodox,” #’s 14-15, 1993: “According to the words of Pope John Paul II, the ecumenical endeavor of the sister Churches of East and West, grounded in dialogue and prayer, is the search for perfect and total communion which is neither absorption nor fusion but a meeting in truth and love (cf. Slavorum Apostoli, 27).15. While the inviolable freedom of persons and their obligation to follow the requirements of their conscience remain secure, in the search for re-establishing unity there is no question of conversion of people from one Church to the other in order to ensure their salvation.”



This statement just boldly declared that schismatics don’t need to accept the Catholic Faith! And below we see John Paul II sitting on equal level chairs with the schismatic Patriarch Teoctist. This action is meant to indicate that the schismatic position, according to which all bishops are equal in the Church and the Bishop of Rome doesn’t possess universal jurisdiction, is accepted by John Paul II. Below we also see John Paul II signing the common declaration of faith with Teoctist, in which they both denounced trying to convert each other. This couldn’t be more formally heretical or schismatical. It is a total rejection of the dogmatic teaching of Vatican I on the necessity to accept the Papacy for salvation, and a bold rejection of the dogma Outside the Church There is No Salvation. (Benedict XVI teaches the same as the Balamand Statement and John Paul II, as one can see in the Heresies of Benedict XVI file above.)




Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #265 on: July 16, 2017, 06:54:29 PM »
St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306:  "Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church
What a saint said, even one who was declared a Doctor or even is considered a Father of the Church, is not necessarily dogmatic, unless a pope says so.  Indeed, Pastor Eternus states that no one can judge the pope, including about whether he's a heretic or not.  This is the kind of circular reasoning that truly bothers me.


PS: changed "on the contrary" to "indeed".
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 07:05:09 PM by Sharbel »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #266 on: July 16, 2017, 06:56:07 PM »
St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306:  "Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church
What a saint said, even one who was declared a Doctor or even is considered a Father of the Church, is not necessarily dogmatic, unless a pope says so.  On the contrary, Pastor Eternus states that no one can judge the pope, including about whether he's a heretic or not.  This is the kind of circular reasoning that truly bothers me.

And the "ipso facto" is circular reasoning as well.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #267 on: July 16, 2017, 07:21:15 PM »
Yeah well I think Hammerin Smith and Jones N. Mann have proved pretty conclusively that trad cathoholicism has already fallen prey to the NWO elites.
..just because some people who profess to be traditional catholics start talking nonsense and liberal,or want to have an agreement with apostate Rome..doesn't equate to traditional Catholicism being in error or prove the faith to be wrong or fallen to the NWO...don't confuse the people to the true faith...not sure if that was what you were alluding to

Hmm... if you're ever in the Pittsburgh area, look up Mr. Belvedere, who I believe is still working for Bob Eucker, he really knows more about this stuff than I do.
I'm telling you to be saved you must convert to the Catholic faith, don't concern yourself with a Zuckerberg or this lost soul here who insulted St Francis of Assisi ....put more effort towards your salvation son...I don't want you to burn

This is a great act. Entertaining persona. To bad it's a little blasphemous.
blasphemous because I want to save souls? I spoke to an orthodox priest the other day,talked about divorce, he said the bible states you can divorce for adultery...I said no,you can separate for adultery but can not remarry unless your spouse dies....just 1 example of how the orthodox are wrong and the Catholic correct....anybody here feel free to give me scripture that you think supports the orthodox view

Orthodox have the Catholic faith, Papists don't. Especially Papists who aren't even in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #268 on: July 16, 2017, 07:24:46 PM »
The miracles of Fatima aren't even persuading the Portuguese and French, how could they persuade us? I've never understood this logic.
don't understand what you are babbling about, obviously there's a difference between 1917 people of Portugal (many were persuaded) to people of today (mostly modernists ) too busy looking at their I phone...have you done any research on this?

LOL So, we're supposed to be persuaded of a miracle that took place in 1917 as well? You don't think these things through very well.
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Offline Sharbel

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