Author Topic: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic  (Read 22778 times)

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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #405 on: July 31, 2017, 09:03:04 PM »
Perhaps there is a pope in an underwater city somewhere.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #406 on: July 31, 2017, 09:25:34 PM »
Hey Sharbel,
as a Maronite Catholic, how do you feel about the Bishops of the Maronite Church changing the Maronite Liturgy to conform to modern day Novus Ordo practices?
i.e., communion in the hand, the priest facing the people, more modern music, etc.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 09:26:03 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #407 on: July 31, 2017, 09:34:29 PM »
Hey Sharbel,
as a Maronite Catholic, how do you feel about the Bishops of the Maronite Church changing the Maronite Liturgy to conform to modern day Novus Ordo practices?
i.e., communion in the hand, the priest facing the people, more modern music, etc.
How can it be so, when the Precious Body is intincted into the Precious Blood for communion?  I don't know about that.  Patriarch Beshara Rai, talking to priests in the US a few months ago, stressed our liturgical traditions.  At least our priest was very glad at his views on the Divine Liturgy, though he pointed out that the priests of Lebanese origin were much less so.  ???

Our priest dreads facing the people, but that's only on Sundays because of the shape of the altar steps.  During the week, in the chapel, he faces East.

We do have most hymns from our tradition, some we sing in Syriac Aramaic or Arabic, but every now and then a dreadful hymn pops up, regrettably.
Sanctus Deus
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Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #408 on: July 31, 2017, 09:51:58 PM »
@sedevacantis
Quote
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 13), June 29, 1896: “You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.”
how is this helping you ?

Quote
Francis does not teach that the faith of Rome (the Catholic faith) is to be held.  He teaches the opposite.  He has explicitly rejected converting atheists, Jews, schismatics and others many times
You see ? You do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.

Do you not see the absurdity of your position ?
no what is absurd is to believe that Francis is a Catholic, what is equally absurd is to deny the papacy, the fact of the matter is there is an anti pope in Rome, look into the arian crisis
How many generations did the Catholic Church go without a hierarchy during the Arian crisis?
St. Athanasius:

"Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, theyare the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

Luke 18:8- “But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he

find, think you, faith on earth?”

In the Gospel, Our Lord Jesus Christ informs us th

at in the last days the true Faith would hardly

be found on the earth. He tells us that “in the holy place” itself there will be “the abomination of

desolation” (Mt. 24:15), and a deception so profound

that, if it were possible, even the elect would

be deceived (Mt. 24:24).

Matthew 24:15- “

When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which

was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place

: he that readeth let

him understand.”

Matthew 24:24-25- “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show

great signs and wonders,

insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect

. Behold I

have told it to you, beforehand.”


2 Thess. 2:3-5- “Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come

a revolt

[apostasy] first, and the man of sin be reve

aled, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and

is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped,

so that he sitteth in the

temple of God

, shewing himself as if he were God. Remember you not, that when I was

yet with you, I told you these things?”

In 1903, Pope St. Pius X thought that he might

be seeing the beginning of the evils which will

fully come to pass in the last days.

Pope St. Pius X,

E Supremi

(# 5), Oct. 4, 1903: “...

there is good reason to fear lest this

great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils

which are reserved for the last days; and that there may already be in the world the

‘Son of Perdition’ of whom the Apostle speaks

(2 Thess. 2:3).”

1

The New Testament tells us that this deception will happen in the very heart of the Church’s

physical structures,

in “the Temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4) and “in the holy place” (Mt. 24:15).

It will arise because people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

In 2 Thessalonians 2, St. Paul speaks of the last days being characterized by a great apostasy that

will be the worst ever – even worse than wa

s experienced in the Arian crisis in the 4

th

century, in

which an authentically Catholic priest was hardly to be found.

Fr. William Jurgens: “At one point in the Church’s history, only a few years before

Gregory’s [Nazianz] present preaching (A.D. 380),

perhaps the number of Catholic

bishops in possession of sees, as opposed to Arian bishops in possession of sees, was

no greater than something between 1% and 3% of the total.

Had doctrine been

determined by popularity, today we should al

l be deniers of Christ and opponents of the

Spirit.”

2

Fr. William Jurgens: “

In the time of the Emperor Valens (4

th

century), Basil was

virtually the only orthodox Bishop in all the East who succeeded in retaining charge of

his see

... If it has no other importance for mode

rn man, a knowledge of the history of

Arianism should demonstrate at least that the Catholic Church takes no account of

popularity and numbers in shaping and mainta

ining doctrine: else, we should long since

have had to abandon Basil and Hilary and At

hanasius and Liberius and Ossius and call

ourselves after Arius.”

3

St. Gregory Nazianz (+380),

Against the Arians

: “Where are they who revile us for our

poverty and pride themselves in their riches?

They who define the Church by numbers

and scorn the little flock?”

4

If the Arian crisis – just a prelude to the Great

Apostasy – was this extensive, how extensive will

the Great Apostasy foretold by Our Lord and Saint Paul be?

Prophecy of St. Nicholas of Fluh (1417-1487): “The Church will be punished because the

majority of her members, high and

low, will become so perverted.

The Church will sink

deeper and deeper until she will at last seem to be extinguished, and the succession of

Peter and the other Apostles to have expired

. But, after this, she will be victoriously

exalted in the sight of all doubters.”

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #409 on: July 31, 2017, 09:56:58 PM »
Perhaps there is a pope in an underwater city somewhere.
Nope. It's all very simple. His name is Francis, he is the bishop of Rome and from Argentina. You all know him from the media. Unfortunately, he no longer calls himself Patriarch of the West.
Search no longer, no need for sedis or underwater cities.
The vicar of Christ exists on Earth, it's all obvious.
It's not that simple, Francis is an apostate heretic from hell, do I need to post all the non catholic things he does and teaches?
No. Who are you to judge that? What kind of authority do you have? None, I would bet. Your position is a dead end, and you know it. But really, come back! If you prefer the forma extraordinaria, fine, I am with you. No need to pursue this nonsense.
The Catholic Church teaches that only those who are baptized and profess the true faith can be considered members of the Catholic Church (see Mystici Corporis of Pius XII).  Since Francis definitely does not profess the true faith,but a false faith, he cannot be considered a member of the Catholic Church or the pope. , Pope Leo XIII teaches the following:


 Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 13), June 29, 1896: “You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.”

Francis does not teach that the faith of Rome (the Catholic faith) is to be held.  He teaches the opposite.  He has explicitly rejected converting atheists, Jews, schismatics and others many times

He therefore teaches that non-Catholics do not need to hold the faith of Rome.  According to Catholic teaching, he is not to be considered a Catholic.  It’s that simple.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 23), June 29, 1943: “For not every offense, although it may be a grave evil, is such as by its very own nature [suapte natura] to sever a man from the Body of the Church [ab Ecclesiae Corpore], as does schism or heresy or apostasy.”

Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9), June 29, 1896:

I think that a significant amount of media distortion has really hurt Pope Francis, and although he is too liberal, and certainly he is incorrect as it pertains to the whole Amoris Laetitia issue, as well as some of the things he has said, a lot of the perception of him from the media is invalid - for example, the fact that he taught that atheists can get to heaven is absolutely bogus and comes from eye-candy media titles from what I can tell.

I really think the mainstream media - and unfortunately the majority of Cradle Roman Catholics who don't care about their beliefs whatsoever - have this perception that Catholics beliefs and morals are subject to cultural change based on whatever the Pope says - but rarely do they understand the unreformability of Catholic dogma and morals which is even used in John Paul II's Catechism of the Catholic Church.
It is something that I am glad the Orthodox Church understands - that morals and beliefs cannot be changed.

It really causes me to cringe when I read an article which states "Catholics no longer have to believe in Limbo!", or "Catholics are no longer required to believe Luther was a heretic!", or "Catholics no longer have to believe in indulgences!", etc.

With that being said, I think it is really daring to suggest that there is no Pope right now, simply because he publicly teaches ideas that are contrary to the Catholic Church.

Do I need to remind you that Pope John XXII publicly taught that the Beatific Vision was nonsense, and he was rebuked and corrected by his Cardinals? It doesn't mean that the seat has been empty during those periods of time!

As Pope Pius IX said when asked what would happen if a Pope taught heresy, and he said "Well, you just don't follow them!"

Popes are seldom infallible according to the Catholic Church, and you should read Vatican I very carefully.
Although I do have my suspicions regarding the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI, I myself can't really be the judge of whether or not the Pope is actually the Pope.

As Saint John Chrysostom said, "Is it Tradition? Ask no more."
you wrote "As Pope Pius IX said when asked what would happen if a Pope taught heresy, and he said "Well, you just don't follow them!"
I would be interested to get the exact quote

Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church…” St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Catholic Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306 :  The Catholic Teaching that a heretic cannot be a valid pope and loses the papal office automatically

as for Borgolio here's so much I wouldn't know where to start
Francis’ Heresies on the Jews

Jews reject that Jesus Christ is God, but Jesus Christ says in John 8:24: “For if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sin.”

The Catholic Church infallibly teaches that you must believe in Jesus Christ and have the Catholic faith for salvation.  It teaches that it’s a mortal sin to observe or practice Judaism.  But Francis endorses the false religion of Judaism and prays in Jewish synagogues:

    Francis, Conversations With Jorge Bergoglio, p. 208: “Not long ago I was in a synagogue taking part in a ceremony.  I prayed a lot and, while praying, I heard a phrase from one of the books of wisdom that had slipped my mind: ‘Lord, may I bear mockery in silence.’  It gave me much peace and joy.” Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 188: “The Church officially recognizes that the People of Israel continue to be the Chosen People.  Nowhere does it say: ‘You lost the game, now it is our turn.’  It is a recognition of the People of Israel.”

This clearly means that Francis holds that people who reject Jesus Christ are the chosen people in God’s sight.  This is a blasphemy against God.

    Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 37: “There also exists the ministerial intercession of a rabbi or a priest who prays or asks for the health of another and it is granted.  What gives credibility to a person who is healing according to the law of God is simplicity, humility and the absence of a spectacle.”

So Francis believes that Jewish rabbis have a true spiritual ministry of intercession “according to the law of God”.

    Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 220:  Francis speaks to Jewish Rabbi Skorka: “I did not forget how you invited me twice to pray and to speak in the synagogue, and I invited you to speak to my seminarians about values.”

In the cathedral in Buenos Aires, Argentina on April 15, 1998 Francis held an interreligious service to honor deceased Jews.  During this meeting, Francis said to the Jews:

    “… we are all brothers, because we have the seal of God in our hearts.”

Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #410 on: July 31, 2017, 10:19:55 PM »
@sedevacantis
Quote
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 13), June 29, 1896: “You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.”
how is this helping you ?

Quote
Francis does not teach that the faith of Rome (the Catholic faith) is to be held.  He teaches the opposite.  He has explicitly rejected converting atheists, Jews, schismatics and others many times
You see ? You do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.

Do you not see the absurdity of your position ?
no what is absurd is to believe that Francis is a Catholic, what is equally absurd is to deny the papacy, the fact of the matter is there is an anti pope in Rome, look into the arian crisis
How many generations did the Catholic Church go without a hierarchy during the Arian crisis?
St. Athanasius:

"Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, theyare the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

Luke 18:8- “But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he

find, think you, faith on earth?”

In the Gospel, Our Lord Jesus Christ informs us th

at in the last days the true Faith would hardly

be found on the earth. He tells us that “in the holy place” itself there will be “the abomination of

desolation” (Mt. 24:15), and a deception so profound

that, if it were possible, even the elect would

be deceived (Mt. 24:24).

Matthew 24:15- “

When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which

was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place

: he that readeth let

him understand.”

Matthew 24:24-25- “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show

great signs and wonders,

insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect

. Behold I

have told it to you, beforehand.”


2 Thess. 2:3-5- “Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come

a revolt

[apostasy] first, and the man of sin be reve

aled, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and

is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped,

so that he sitteth in the

temple of God

, shewing himself as if he were God. Remember you not, that when I was

yet with you, I told you these things?”

In 1903, Pope St. Pius X thought that he might

be seeing the beginning of the evils which will

fully come to pass in the last days.

Pope St. Pius X,

E Supremi

(# 5), Oct. 4, 1903: “...

there is good reason to fear lest this

great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils

which are reserved for the last days; and that there may already be in the world the

‘Son of Perdition’ of whom the Apostle speaks

(2 Thess. 2:3).”

1

The New Testament tells us that this deception will happen in the very heart of the Church’s

physical structures,

in “the Temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4) and “in the holy place” (Mt. 24:15).

It will arise because people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

In 2 Thessalonians 2, St. Paul speaks of the last days being characterized by a great apostasy that

will be the worst ever – even worse than wa

s experienced in the Arian crisis in the 4

th

century, in

which an authentically Catholic priest was hardly to be found.

Fr. William Jurgens: “At one point in the Church’s history, only a few years before

Gregory’s [Nazianz] present preaching (A.D. 380),

perhaps the number of Catholic

bishops in possession of sees, as opposed to Arian bishops in possession of sees, was

no greater than something between 1% and 3% of the total.

Had doctrine been

determined by popularity, today we should al

l be deniers of Christ and opponents of the

Spirit.”

2

Fr. William Jurgens: “

In the time of the Emperor Valens (4

th

century), Basil was

virtually the only orthodox Bishop in all the East who succeeded in retaining charge of

his see

... If it has no other importance for mode

rn man, a knowledge of the history of

Arianism should demonstrate at least that the Catholic Church takes no account of

popularity and numbers in shaping and mainta

ining doctrine: else, we should long since

have had to abandon Basil and Hilary and At

hanasius and Liberius and Ossius and call

ourselves after Arius.”

3

St. Gregory Nazianz (+380),

Against the Arians

: “Where are they who revile us for our

poverty and pride themselves in their riches?

They who define the Church by numbers

and scorn the little flock?”

4

If the Arian crisis – just a prelude to the Great

Apostasy – was this extensive, how extensive will

the Great Apostasy foretold by Our Lord and Saint Paul be?

Prophecy of St. Nicholas of Fluh (1417-1487): “The Church will be punished because the

majority of her members, high and

low, will become so perverted.

The Church will sink

deeper and deeper until she will at last seem to be extinguished, and the succession of

Peter and the other Apostles to have expired

. But, after this, she will be victoriously

exalted in the sight of all doubters.”
The St Athanasius quote is misused by many. The SSPX uses it to defend their position too. I've heard that schismatic Orthodox groups use it as well. You quote scripture to back up your unique interpretation like a protestant would, not convincing. I'm not so much scorning your numbers as I am pointing out that your church doesn't exist. It's not that you have a small hierarchy or priesthood. It is just not there. Do you have even 1 bishop that rejects the new mass and Vatican II?  You don't even have 1%. Zero is not small numbers, it's non existent. Where are your 1 to 3 percent now? Do you honestly believe that if you were the only true Catholic on earth right now that the Catholic church would still have not defected?
You shouldn't put your trust in prophecies, you're not required by the Catholic Church to believe in them. Why should we?

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #411 on: July 31, 2017, 10:46:04 PM »
@sedevacantis
Quote
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 13), June 29, 1896: “You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.”
how is this helping you ?

Quote
Francis does not teach that the faith of Rome (the Catholic faith) is to be held.  He teaches the opposite.  He has explicitly rejected converting atheists, Jews, schismatics and others many times
You see ? You do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.

Do you not see the absurdity of your position ?
no what is absurd is to believe that Francis is a Catholic, what is equally absurd is to deny the papacy, the fact of the matter is there is an anti pope in Rome, look into the arian crisis
How many generations did the Catholic Church go without a hierarchy during the Arian crisis?
St. Athanasius:

"Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, theyare the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

Luke 18:8- “But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he

find, think you, faith on earth?”

In the Gospel, Our Lord Jesus Christ informs us th

at in the last days the true Faith would hardly

be found on the earth. He tells us that “in the holy place” itself there will be “the abomination of

desolation” (Mt. 24:15), and a deception so profound

that, if it were possible, even the elect would

be deceived (Mt. 24:24).

Matthew 24:15- “

When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which

was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place

: he that readeth let

him understand.”

Matthew 24:24-25- “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show

great signs and wonders,

insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect

. Behold I

have told it to you, beforehand.”


2 Thess. 2:3-5- “Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come

a revolt

[apostasy] first, and the man of sin be reve

aled, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and

is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped,

so that he sitteth in the

temple of God

, shewing himself as if he were God. Remember you not, that when I was

yet with you, I told you these things?”

In 1903, Pope St. Pius X thought that he might

be seeing the beginning of the evils which will

fully come to pass in the last days.

Pope St. Pius X,

E Supremi

(# 5), Oct. 4, 1903: “...

there is good reason to fear lest this

great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils

which are reserved for the last days; and that there may already be in the world the

‘Son of Perdition’ of whom the Apostle speaks

(2 Thess. 2:3).”

1

The New Testament tells us that this deception will happen in the very heart of the Church’s

physical structures,

in “the Temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4) and “in the holy place” (Mt. 24:15).

It will arise because people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

In 2 Thessalonians 2, St. Paul speaks of the last days being characterized by a great apostasy that

will be the worst ever – even worse than wa

s experienced in the Arian crisis in the 4

th

century, in

which an authentically Catholic priest was hardly to be found.

Fr. William Jurgens: “At one point in the Church’s history, only a few years before

Gregory’s [Nazianz] present preaching (A.D. 380),

perhaps the number of Catholic

bishops in possession of sees, as opposed to Arian bishops in possession of sees, was

no greater than something between 1% and 3% of the total.

Had doctrine been

determined by popularity, today we should al

l be deniers of Christ and opponents of the

Spirit.”

2

Fr. William Jurgens: “

In the time of the Emperor Valens (4

th

century), Basil was

virtually the only orthodox Bishop in all the East who succeeded in retaining charge of

his see

... If it has no other importance for mode

rn man, a knowledge of the history of

Arianism should demonstrate at least that the Catholic Church takes no account of

popularity and numbers in shaping and mainta

ining doctrine: else, we should long since

have had to abandon Basil and Hilary and At

hanasius and Liberius and Ossius and call

ourselves after Arius.”

3

St. Gregory Nazianz (+380),

Against the Arians

: “Where are they who revile us for our

poverty and pride themselves in their riches?

They who define the Church by numbers

and scorn the little flock?”

4

If the Arian crisis – just a prelude to the Great

Apostasy – was this extensive, how extensive will

the Great Apostasy foretold by Our Lord and Saint Paul be?

Prophecy of St. Nicholas of Fluh (1417-1487): “The Church will be punished because the

majority of her members, high and

low, will become so perverted.

The Church will sink

deeper and deeper until she will at last seem to be extinguished, and the succession of

Peter and the other Apostles to have expired

. But, after this, she will be victoriously

exalted in the sight of all doubters.”
The St Athanasius quote is misused by many. The SSPX uses it to defend their position too. I've heard that schismatic Orthodox groups use it as well. You quote scripture to back up your unique interpretation like a protestant would, not convincing. I'm not so much scorning your numbers as I am pointing out that your church doesn't exist. It's not that you have a small hierarchy or priesthood. It is just not there. Do you have even 1 bishop that rejects the new mass and Vatican II?  You don't even have 1%. Zero is not small numbers, it's non existent. Where are your 1 to 3 percent now? Do you honestly believe that if you were the only true Catholic on earth right now that the Catholic church would still have not defected?
You shouldn't put your trust in prophecies, you're not required by the Catholic Church to believe in them. Why should we?
you don't know what you are talking about, Arch Bishop Lefebvre consecrated 4 bishops decades ago, I'm not forcing you to believe in prophecies, we have the bible..is that not convincing enough? do some research

Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #412 on: August 01, 2017, 12:01:51 AM »
I have a lot of respect for Abp. Lefebvre. I even used his name for one of my sons middle name. The bishops he consecrated are not regular bishops, they perform the function of a bishop but they have no see. They aren't bishops in the regular sense. Even if this were not the case and they were part of the hierarchy, they are not sedevacantists.
I've met Bishop Fellay, he's a very kind man. Even he allows priests ordained in the new rite to come into the sspx without conditional ordination.
They recognize Pope Francis as the Pope of Rome. I don't know how they could be considered part of the hierarchy without somehow forming a new church as a result. They have been clear this is not their intention. Even their churches are called chapels for this reason, with a few exceptions.

Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #413 on: August 01, 2017, 12:24:23 AM »
Sedevacantist,
I looked this up to show what I mean.
Quote
In the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of St. Pius X, nothing done applies to be called "schismatic." Though, yes, the act was disobedient (through force of events), no act conferring any "apostolic mission" was ever performed.

It is from the second to last paragraph in section G of "A canonical study of the 1988 consecrations" here's the link. http://sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1988-consecrations-3

No apostolic mission would mean no apostolic succession. That is why they can only operate with supplied jurisdiction due to the crisis.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #414 on: August 01, 2017, 02:35:21 AM »
I always chuckle when Catholics quote St. Gregory the Theologian on ecclesiological matters :laugh:

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #415 on: August 01, 2017, 12:26:16 PM »
I have a lot of respect for Abp. Lefebvre. I even used his name for one of my sons middle name. The bishops he consecrated are not regular bishops, they perform the function of a bishop but they have no see. They aren't bishops in the regular sense. Even if this were not the case and they were part of the hierarchy, they are not sedevacantists.
I've met Bishop Fellay, he's a very kind man. Even he allows priests ordained in the new rite to come into the sspx without conditional ordination.
They recognize Pope Francis as the Pope of Rome. I don't know how they could be considered part of the hierarchy without somehow forming a new church as a result. They have been clear this is not their intention. Even their churches are called chapels for this reason, with a few exceptions.
I'm well aware they are not sedevacantists, the point is there are traditional Catholic bishops, CMRI for example ...that hold on to the traditional Catholic faith ...doesn't mean they are perfect..Fellay I don't trust

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #416 on: August 01, 2017, 12:59:29 PM »
Perhaps there is a pope in an underwater city somewhere.
Nope. It's all very simple. His name is Francis, he is the bishop of Rome and from Argentina. You all know him from the media. Unfortunately, he no longer calls himself Patriarch of the West.
Search no longer, no need for sedis or underwater cities.
The vicar of Christ exists on Earth, it's all obvious.
It's not that simple, Francis is an apostate heretic from hell, do I need to post all the non catholic things he does and teaches?
No. Who are you to judge that? What kind of authority do you have? None, I would bet. Your position is a dead end, and you know it. But really, come back! If you prefer the forma extraordinaria, fine, I am with you. No need to pursue this nonsense.
The Catholic Church teaches that only those who are baptized and profess the true faith can be considered members of the Catholic Church (see Mystici Corporis of Pius XII).  Since Francis definitely does not profess the true faith,but a false faith, he cannot be considered a member of the Catholic Church or the pope. , Pope Leo XIII teaches the following:


 Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 13), June 29, 1896: “You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.”

Francis does not teach that the faith of Rome (the Catholic faith) is to be held.  He teaches the opposite.  He has explicitly rejected converting atheists, Jews, schismatics and others many times

He therefore teaches that non-Catholics do not need to hold the faith of Rome.  According to Catholic teaching, he is not to be considered a Catholic.  It’s that simple.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 23), June 29, 1943: “For not every offense, although it may be a grave evil, is such as by its very own nature [suapte natura] to sever a man from the Body of the Church [ab Ecclesiae Corpore], as does schism or heresy or apostasy.”

Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9), June 29, 1896:

I think that a significant amount of media distortion has really hurt Pope Francis, and although he is too liberal, and certainly he is incorrect as it pertains to the whole Amoris Laetitia issue, as well as some of the things he has said, a lot of the perception of him from the media is invalid - for example, the fact that he taught that atheists can get to heaven is absolutely bogus and comes from eye-candy media titles from what I can tell.

I really think the mainstream media - and unfortunately the majority of Cradle Roman Catholics who don't care about their beliefs whatsoever - have this perception that Catholics beliefs and morals are subject to cultural change based on whatever the Pope says - but rarely do they understand the unreformability of Catholic dogma and morals which is even used in John Paul II's Catechism of the Catholic Church.
It is something that I am glad the Orthodox Church understands - that morals and beliefs cannot be changed.

It really causes me to cringe when I read an article which states "Catholics no longer have to believe in Limbo!", or "Catholics are no longer required to believe Luther was a heretic!", or "Catholics no longer have to believe in indulgences!", etc.

With that being said, I think it is really daring to suggest that there is no Pope right now, simply because he publicly teaches ideas that are contrary to the Catholic Church.

Do I need to remind you that Pope John XXII publicly taught that the Beatific Vision was nonsense, and he was rebuked and corrected by his Cardinals? It doesn't mean that the seat has been empty during those periods of time!

As Pope Pius IX said when asked what would happen if a Pope taught heresy, and he said "Well, you just don't follow them!"

Popes are seldom infallible according to the Catholic Church, and you should read Vatican I very carefully.
Although I do have my suspicions regarding the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI, I myself can't really be the judge of whether or not the Pope is actually the Pope.

As Saint John Chrysostom said, "Is it Tradition? Ask no more."
you wrote "As Pope Pius IX said when asked what would happen if a Pope taught heresy, and he said "Well, you just don't follow them!"
I would be interested to get the exact quote

Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church…” St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Catholic Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306 :  The Catholic Teaching that a heretic cannot be a valid pope and loses the papal office automatically

as for Borgolio here's so much I wouldn't know where to start
Francis’ Heresies on the Jews

Jews reject that Jesus Christ is God, but Jesus Christ says in John 8:24: “For if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sin.”

The Catholic Church infallibly teaches that you must believe in Jesus Christ and have the Catholic faith for salvation.  It teaches that it’s a mortal sin to observe or practice Judaism.  But Francis endorses the false religion of Judaism and prays in Jewish synagogues:

    Francis, Conversations With Jorge Bergoglio, p. 208: “Not long ago I was in a synagogue taking part in a ceremony.  I prayed a lot and, while praying, I heard a phrase from one of the books of wisdom that had slipped my mind: ‘Lord, may I bear mockery in silence.’  It gave me much peace and joy.” Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 188: “The Church officially recognizes that the People of Israel continue to be the Chosen People.  Nowhere does it say: ‘You lost the game, now it is our turn.’  It is a recognition of the People of Israel.”

This clearly means that Francis holds that people who reject Jesus Christ are the chosen people in God’s sight.  This is a blasphemy against God.

    Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 37: “There also exists the ministerial intercession of a rabbi or a priest who prays or asks for the health of another and it is granted.  What gives credibility to a person who is healing according to the law of God is simplicity, humility and the absence of a spectacle.”

So Francis believes that Jewish rabbis have a true spiritual ministry of intercession “according to the law of God”.

    Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 220:  Francis speaks to Jewish Rabbi Skorka: “I did not forget how you invited me twice to pray and to speak in the synagogue, and I invited you to speak to my seminarians about values.”

In the cathedral in Buenos Aires, Argentina on April 15, 1998 Francis held an interreligious service to honor deceased Jews.  During this meeting, Francis said to the Jews:

    “… we are all brothers, because we have the seal of God in our hearts.”

According to Roman Church Law, it is up to the Bishops to judge if the Pope is an ipso facto heretic...it doesn't give people the right to break communion with the Pope whenever they feel he is deviating from the faith.
https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/2917-can-the-church-judge-a-heretical-pope

As for your statements about the Jews, I recommend you read Romans 11. I also wonder why God would ignore the prayers of people outside the Roman Catholic Church... How would people be able to convert?

I heard the original quote from Father Hesse when I was looking into the SSPX. I respectfully think he was wrong, despite his brilliance.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 01:08:15 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #417 on: August 01, 2017, 03:29:00 PM »
Perhaps there is a pope in an underwater city somewhere.
Nope. It's all very simple. His name is Francis, he is the bishop of Rome and from Argentina. You all know him from the media. Unfortunately, he no longer calls himself Patriarch of the West.
Search no longer, no need for sedis or underwater cities.
The vicar of Christ exists on Earth, it's all obvious.
It's not that simple, Francis is an apostate heretic from hell, do I need to post all the non catholic things he does and teaches?
No. Who are you to judge that? What kind of authority do you have? None, I would bet. Your position is a dead end, and you know it. But really, come back! If you prefer the forma extraordinaria, fine, I am with you. No need to pursue this nonsense.
The Catholic Church teaches that only those who are baptized and profess the true faith can be considered members of the Catholic Church (see Mystici Corporis of Pius XII).  Since Francis definitely does not profess the true faith,but a false faith, he cannot be considered a member of the Catholic Church or the pope. , Pope Leo XIII teaches the following:


 Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 13), June 29, 1896: “You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.”

Francis does not teach that the faith of Rome (the Catholic faith) is to be held.  He teaches the opposite.  He has explicitly rejected converting atheists, Jews, schismatics and others many times

He therefore teaches that non-Catholics do not need to hold the faith of Rome.  According to Catholic teaching, he is not to be considered a Catholic.  It’s that simple.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 23), June 29, 1943: “For not every offense, although it may be a grave evil, is such as by its very own nature [suapte natura] to sever a man from the Body of the Church [ab Ecclesiae Corpore], as does schism or heresy or apostasy.”

Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9), June 29, 1896:

I think that a significant amount of media distortion has really hurt Pope Francis, and although he is too liberal, and certainly he is incorrect as it pertains to the whole Amoris Laetitia issue, as well as some of the things he has said, a lot of the perception of him from the media is invalid - for example, the fact that he taught that atheists can get to heaven is absolutely bogus and comes from eye-candy media titles from what I can tell.

I really think the mainstream media - and unfortunately the majority of Cradle Roman Catholics who don't care about their beliefs whatsoever - have this perception that Catholics beliefs and morals are subject to cultural change based on whatever the Pope says - but rarely do they understand the unreformability of Catholic dogma and morals which is even used in John Paul II's Catechism of the Catholic Church.
It is something that I am glad the Orthodox Church understands - that morals and beliefs cannot be changed.

It really causes me to cringe when I read an article which states "Catholics no longer have to believe in Limbo!", or "Catholics are no longer required to believe Luther was a heretic!", or "Catholics no longer have to believe in indulgences!", etc.

With that being said, I think it is really daring to suggest that there is no Pope right now, simply because he publicly teaches ideas that are contrary to the Catholic Church.

Do I need to remind you that Pope John XXII publicly taught that the Beatific Vision was nonsense, and he was rebuked and corrected by his Cardinals? It doesn't mean that the seat has been empty during those periods of time!

As Pope Pius IX said when asked what would happen if a Pope taught heresy, and he said "Well, you just don't follow them!"

Popes are seldom infallible according to the Catholic Church, and you should read Vatican I very carefully.
Although I do have my suspicions regarding the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI, I myself can't really be the judge of whether or not the Pope is actually the Pope.

As Saint John Chrysostom said, "Is it Tradition? Ask no more."
you wrote "As Pope Pius IX said when asked what would happen if a Pope taught heresy, and he said "Well, you just don't follow them!"
I would be interested to get the exact quote

Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church…” St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Catholic Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306 :  The Catholic Teaching that a heretic cannot be a valid pope and loses the papal office automatically

as for Borgolio here's so much I wouldn't know where to start
Francis’ Heresies on the Jews

Jews reject that Jesus Christ is God, but Jesus Christ says in John 8:24: “For if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sin.”

The Catholic Church infallibly teaches that you must believe in Jesus Christ and have the Catholic faith for salvation.  It teaches that it’s a mortal sin to observe or practice Judaism.  But Francis endorses the false religion of Judaism and prays in Jewish synagogues:

    Francis, Conversations With Jorge Bergoglio, p. 208: “Not long ago I was in a synagogue taking part in a ceremony.  I prayed a lot and, while praying, I heard a phrase from one of the books of wisdom that had slipped my mind: ‘Lord, may I bear mockery in silence.’  It gave me much peace and joy.” Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 188: “The Church officially recognizes that the People of Israel continue to be the Chosen People.  Nowhere does it say: ‘You lost the game, now it is our turn.’  It is a recognition of the People of Israel.”

This clearly means that Francis holds that people who reject Jesus Christ are the chosen people in God’s sight.  This is a blasphemy against God.

    Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 37: “There also exists the ministerial intercession of a rabbi or a priest who prays or asks for the health of another and it is granted.  What gives credibility to a person who is healing according to the law of God is simplicity, humility and the absence of a spectacle.”

So Francis believes that Jewish rabbis have a true spiritual ministry of intercession “according to the law of God”.

    Francis, On Heaven and Earth, p. 220:  Francis speaks to Jewish Rabbi Skorka: “I did not forget how you invited me twice to pray and to speak in the synagogue, and I invited you to speak to my seminarians about values.”

In the cathedral in Buenos Aires, Argentina on April 15, 1998 Francis held an interreligious service to honor deceased Jews.  During this meeting, Francis said to the Jews:

    “… we are all brothers, because we have the seal of God in our hearts.”

According to Roman Church Law, it is up to the Bishops to judge if the Pope is an ipso facto heretic...it doesn't give people the right to break communion with the Pope whenever they feel he is deviating from the faith.
https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/2917-can-the-church-judge-a-heretical-pope

As for your statements about the Jews, I recommend you read Romans 11. I also wonder why God would ignore the prayers of people outside the Roman Catholic Church... How would people be able to convert?

I heard the original quote from Father Hesse when I was looking into the SSPX. I respectfully think he was wrong, despite his brilliance.
Siscoe is easily refuted,not sure I want to get into it here. Romans 11? I suggest you read the magisterium of the Church which condemns praying with Christ killing jews, do I have to get you those quotes?

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #418 on: August 01, 2017, 04:49:45 PM »
Siscoe is easily refuted,not sure I want to get into it here. Romans 11? I suggest you read the magisterium of the Church which condemns praying with Christ killing jews, do I have to get you those quotes?

Yeah, those Jews are the cause of all the worlds problems, and only the Jews are responsibility for killing Christ, and not the Romans or Pontius Pilate.
Besides the fact that Christ was a Jew, the Virgin Mary was a Jew, and in fact all of the Apostles were Jewish.

I mean, do you seriously believe that all Jewish people have the guilt of killing Jesus Christ because of their ethnicity? Seriously?

Leave your antisemitism away from Christian talks please, and I love how you completely ignored the Bible to show how your position was right.

It seems you have a bad case of prelest which I would analyze if I were you.

P.S. : the Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox Church has condemned attending Jewish liturgy and prayer services, as well as partaking in the works of the Mosaic Law - it hasn't condemned praying for the deceased of those who died outside the Church, on the contrary, as well as visiting a Synagogue when it isn't in prayer services.

After all, did not Saint Paul visit a Pagan temple?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 04:53:01 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #419 on: August 01, 2017, 04:55:48 PM »
Hey Sharbel,
as a Maronite Catholic, how do you feel about the Bishops of the Maronite Church changing the Maronite Liturgy to conform to modern day Novus Ordo practices?
i.e., communion in the hand, the priest facing the people, more modern music, etc.
How can it be so, when the Precious Body is intincted into the Precious Blood for communion?  I don't know about that.  Patriarch Beshara Rai, talking to priests in the US a few months ago, stressed our liturgical traditions.  At least our priest was very glad at his views on the Divine Liturgy, though he pointed out that the priests of Lebanese origin were much less so.  ???

Our priest dreads facing the people, but that's only on Sundays because of the shape of the altar steps.  During the week, in the chapel, he faces East.

We do have most hymns from our tradition, some we sing in Syriac Aramaic or Arabic, but every now and then a dreadful hymn pops up, regrettably.

I attended with my family a Maronite liturgy for Pascha in Cleveland (as I was more convinced of the Catholic position at that point in time, but I am still not sure which position is right), and although it was prettier than a typical Novus Ordo Roman Mass, I found it weird that the priest was facing the people during the Mass for example - and I found that other American Maronite liturgies elsewhere have really been modernized unfortunately.
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Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #420 on: August 01, 2017, 05:01:20 PM »
Sedevacantist,
I agree that the recent popes are out of line with Rome's past teachings. I came to a point where I had to decide. Either I had to accept sedevacantism or accept that the Roman Catholic church was not the divine institution it claimed to be. I'm not a fan of any of the popes from during or after V2. I don't think there is a more corrupt church than the mainstream RC church. They seem to behind every wrong cause.
Sedevacantism to me in it's current state seemed to me to mean that the church defected. It may have been a better option decades ago. In another hundred years this position will be even less believable.
The Church cannot defect. So either Jesus was refering to another church or Catholicism was wrong in it's previous papal claims. Catholicism doesn't allow for the church to be wrong in these matters so I left.

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #421 on: August 01, 2017, 05:06:01 PM »
Siscoe is easily refuted,not sure I want to get into it here. Romans 11? I suggest you read the magisterium of the Church which condemns praying with Christ killing jews, do I have to get you those quotes?

Yeah, those Jews are the cause of all the worlds problems, and only the Jews are responsibility for killing Christ, and not the Romans or Pontius Pilate.
Besides the fact that Christ was a Jew, the Virgin Mary was a Jew, and in fact all of the Apostles were Jewish.

I mean, do you seriously believe that all Jewish people have the guilt of killing Jesus Christ because of their ethnicity? Seriously?

Leave your antisemitism away from Christian talks please, and I love how you completely ignored the Bible to show how your position was right.

It seems you have a bad case of prelest which I would analyze if I were you.

P.S. : the Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox Church has condemned attending Jewish liturgy and prayer services, as well as partaking in the works of the Mosaic Law - it hasn't condemned praying for the deceased of those who died outside the Church, on the contrary, as well as visiting a Synagogue when it isn't in prayer services.

After all, did not Saint Paul visit a Pagan temple?
Judaism now is a different religion than Jesus and Mary were. He wasn't talking about ethnicity. He was talking about prayer. Jew has more than one meaning. Are we sure that Mary was the same ethinicity as modern Jews?

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #422 on: August 01, 2017, 08:05:33 PM »
Sedevacantist,
I agree that the recent popes are out of line with Rome's past teachings. I came to a point where I had to decide. Either I had to accept sedevacantism or accept that the Roman Catholic church was not the divine institution it claimed to be. I'm not a fan of any of the popes from during or after V2. I don't think there is a more corrupt church than the mainstream RC church. They seem to behind every wrong cause.
Sedevacantism to me in it's current state seemed to me to mean that the church defected. It may have been a better option decades ago. In another hundred years this position will be even less believable.
The Church cannot defect. So either Jesus was refering to another church or Catholicism was wrong in it's previous papal claims. Catholicism doesn't allow for the church to be wrong in these matters so I left.
brother Servulus, I don' believe the true Church can defect..have you looked into the life of Padre Pio? was he part of the Church of Christ

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #423 on: August 02, 2017, 01:31:51 AM »
Siscoe is easily refuted,not sure I want to get into it here. Romans 11? I suggest you read the magisterium of the Church which condemns praying with Christ killing jews, do I have to get you those quotes?

Yeah, those Jews are the cause of all the worlds problems, and only the Jews are responsibility for killing Christ, and not the Romans or Pontius Pilate.
Besides the fact that Christ was a Jew, the Virgin Mary was a Jew, and in fact all of the Apostles were Jewish.

I mean, do you seriously believe that all Jewish people have the guilt of killing Jesus Christ because of their ethnicity? Seriously?

Leave your antisemitism away from Christian talks please, and I love how you completely ignored the Bible to show how your position was right.

It seems you have a bad case of prelest which I would analyze if I were you.

P.S. : the Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox Church has condemned attending Jewish liturgy and prayer services, as well as partaking in the works of the Mosaic Law - it hasn't condemned praying for the deceased of those who died outside the Church, on the contrary, as well as visiting a Synagogue when it isn't in prayer services.

After all, did not Saint Paul visit a Pagan temple?
Judaism now is a different religion than Jesus and Mary were. He wasn't talking about ethnicity. He was talking about prayer. Jew has more than one meaning. Are we sure that Mary was the same ethinicity as modern Jews?

He stated that Pope Francis has prayed with those "Christ-killing Jews."
Even if we clearly disconnect contemporary Israelis / Jewish people from the Biblical Israelites / Jews, he himself is drawing a connection between the two that seems rooted in antisemitism.

I find it astonishing that he is drawing the connection - either religiously or ethnically - between the Pharisees that killed Jesus and contemporary Jews.
Should we assume that all atheists are secretly supporters of the Soviet Union's persecution of Christians?
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Offline servulus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #424 on: August 02, 2017, 01:41:50 AM »
I see. Regardless of whether they are the same religion or ethinicity now they aren't Christ killers. He shouldn't use that terminology. I agree that a pope shouldn't participate in prayer services with them or any other non christian religion. What happened in Assisi was unfortunate.

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #425 on: August 02, 2017, 12:28:03 PM »
Siscoe is easily refuted,not sure I want to get into it here. Romans 11? I suggest you read the magisterium of the Church which condemns praying with Christ killing jews, do I have to get you those quotes?

Yeah, those Jews are the cause of all the worlds problems, and only the Jews are responsibility for killing Christ, and not the Romans or Pontius Pilate.
Besides the fact that Christ was a Jew, the Virgin Mary was a Jew, and in fact all of the Apostles were Jewish.

I mean, do you seriously believe that all Jewish people have the guilt of killing Jesus Christ because of their ethnicity? Seriously?

Leave your antisemitism away from Christian talks please, and I love how you completely ignored the Bible to show how your position was right.

It seems you have a bad case of prelest which I would analyze if I were you.

P.S. : the Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox Church has condemned attending Jewish liturgy and prayer services, as well as partaking in the works of the Mosaic Law - it hasn't condemned praying for the deceased of those who died outside the Church, on the contrary, as well as visiting a Synagogue when it isn't in prayer services.

After all, did not Saint Paul visit a Pagan temple?
Judaism now is a different religion than Jesus and Mary were. He wasn't talking about ethnicity. He was talking about prayer. Jew has more than one meaning. Are we sure that Mary was the same ethinicity as modern Jews?

He stated that Pope Francis has prayed with those "Christ-killing Jews."
Even if we clearly disconnect contemporary Israelis / Jewish people from the Biblical Israelites / Jews, he himself is drawing a connection between the two that seems rooted in antisemitism.

I find it astonishing that he is drawing the connection - either religiously or ethnically - between the Pharisees that killed Jesus and contemporary Jews.
Should we assume that all atheists are secretly supporters of the Soviet Union's persecution of Christians?

I find it astonishing how you suggest the Romans as also responsible for the death of Christ, have you actually read the bible?

In this passage of the New Testament, where the entire
people was assembled, Saint Peter upbraids the Jews for
having killed Christ.
In addition we find in the “Acts of the Apostles” (Chapter V)
a passage where not only Saint Peter, but also the remaining
Apostles, categorically accuse the Council of Elders of Israel,
which was summoned by the priests, of the death of Christ:
“29. Then Peter and the other Apostles answered and said,
‘We ought to obey God rather than men. 30. The God of our
fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.’

We have thus here a common evidence of the Apostles,
which accused the Jews and not the Romans, of having killed
Christ.

Saint Paul, in his First Epistle to the Thessalonians (Chapter
II), says with reference to the Jews:
“15. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own
prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God,
and are contrary to all men.”62
In this verse Saint Paul describes the Jews in convincing
manner as “contrary to all men.” This is a truth that can be
doubted by no one who has thoroughly studied the mode of
thought and the illegal activities of the Jewish people.

However, it is very probable that, if Paul had lived today, he
would have been condemned as an enemy of the Jews, since he
publicly announced a truth that may never be announced to
any one, owing to the Jews and their accomplices within the
clergy. When, on his side, the protomartyr Saint Stephen
turned to the Jews of the Synagogue of the Freedmen, the
Cyreneans, the Alexandrians and then to those of Cilicia and
Asia, i.e. to Jews from different parts of the world, he said to
them in the presence of the high priest, the spiritual leader of
Israel:
“51. Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye
do always resist the Holy Ghost; as your fathers did, so do ye.
52. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?
and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of
the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and
murderers!”63
The evidence of Saint Stephen thus agrees with that of the
Apostles and with that of Saint Paul, when he regards the Jews
in general, i.e. both those of Jerusalem and the remaining parts
of Judaea, as well as those who live in other parts of the world,
as a people responsible for deicide. All this is recorded in Holy
Scripture, where one does not find a single verse that accuses
the Romans of the murder.

In the Gospel of John, Chapter VIII, the Apostle relates that
Jesus, in a verbal dispute with some Jews, said to them (Verse
37):
“I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill Me,
because My word hath no place in you.”

What's also astonishing is you are not aware that the jews long after Christ were still enemies of the Church, you would surely call St Cyril an anti-Semite

In order to obtain knowledge of the conduct of Saint Cyril
towards the Jews, let us refer to the words of the Jewish
historian Graetz, which repeat faithfully the feelings of Jews
towards the Fathers and Saints of the Church:
“During the rulership of Theodosius in the East and
Honorius in the West, the Bishop of Alexandria, Cyril, who was
remarkable for his quarrelsomeness, his violence and his
impetuosity, tolerated the bad treatment of the Jews and
expelled them from the city. He aroused the Christian rabble
and incited them against the Jews. His excessive fanaticism
called his attention to the synagogues, of which he seized
possession in the name of Christianity. He drove the Jewish
inhabitants half-naked out of the city, which had previously
served them as home. Without his being able to be hindered,
Cyril gave their property free for plundering by the mob, as
indeed the latter always thirsts for enrichment.’’41
In its turn, the “Jewish-Castilian Encyclopaedia” already
quoted states under the word Cyril in this reference:
“Cyril (Saint) of Alexandria, Patriarch (376-444). Was
practically the master of Alexandria, from whence he drove out
the non-Christian populace. In the year 415 he commanded the
expulsion of the Jews, in spite of the protests of the Imperial
Prefect, Orestes.”

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #426 on: August 14, 2017, 09:17:28 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #427 on: August 14, 2017, 09:22:49 PM »
Because the fear of hell that imposed by RC nun and layman on me, I accidentally joined SSPX, and became more anxious. I failed so many subjects because of SSPX.

I am really angry at RC.

Should I blame on RC and SSPX for failure of subjects and delayed of my studies?

Most of RCs I know they are not my real friends. They don't care about my current situation.
Only my Orthodox friends care about me and give me comfort.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 09:23:58 PM by Anthony1986 »
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #428 on: August 14, 2017, 10:27:27 PM »
You definitely should not blame the Roman Church for the distortions inflicted on you by Roman Catholics.  They were fallen persons who were probably themselves wronged by other Roman Catholics to hold their distorted views.  Forgive them, forgive the Roman Church, let go of them, so that your new found love may not be tainted by bitterness.
Sanctus Deus
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Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #429 on: August 14, 2017, 10:32:35 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #430 on: August 14, 2017, 10:33:35 PM »
You definitely should not blame the Roman Church for the distortions inflicted on you by Roman Catholics.  They were fallen persons who were probably themselves wronged by other Roman Catholics to hold their distorted views.  Forgive them, forgive the Roman Church, let go of them, so that your new found love may not be tainted by bitterness.

Thanks Sharbel. Happy feast of Dormition of the Mother of God.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #431 on: August 14, 2017, 10:42:12 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Where is your "true Catholic Church"??? The RC after Vatican II? or Your "Catholic Church" that does not have valid Pope and bishops?
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #432 on: August 14, 2017, 10:48:06 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Where is your "true Catholic Church"??? The RC after Vatican II? or Your "Catholic Church" that does not have valid Pope and bishops?
Vatican 2 is not Catholic, how many times do I have to repeat myself..we are in the end times...The True Church of Christ does not have a true current pope today, the seat is vacant..it's happened in the past, why can't you accept that?

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #433 on: August 14, 2017, 11:08:14 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #434 on: August 15, 2017, 12:34:52 AM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.
not I but the Church of Christ...Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #435 on: August 15, 2017, 12:36:17 AM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.
not I but the Church of Christ...Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved.

What that means is, By so saying you accuse yourself.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #436 on: August 15, 2017, 09:31:08 AM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.
not I but the Church of Christ...Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208:

“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved.

What that means is, By so saying you accuse yourself.
it means you're in trouble

Offline CarolS

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #437 on: August 15, 2017, 10:03:37 AM »
Anthony, I pray that you find peace and a place where you can work out your salvation.
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #438 on: August 15, 2017, 07:57:56 PM »
Anthony, I pray that you find peace and a place where you can work out your salvation.

Thank you.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #439 on: August 15, 2017, 11:41:49 PM »
not I but the Church of Christ...Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208...
Do you grok the irony and contradiction of your quoting popes, when you do not believe that there's any pope currently?  For, if a Roman Catholic needs to be united with a pope, either you ceased to be a Roman Catholic or the Roman Catholic Church can persist even without a pope, making him unnecessary.
Sanctus Deus
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ
Άγιος ο Θεός

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #440 on: August 15, 2017, 11:52:21 PM »
not I but the Church of Christ...Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208...
Do you grok the irony and contradiction of your quoting popes, when you do not believe that there's any pope currently?  For, if a Roman Catholic needs to be united with a pope, either you ceased to be a Roman Catholic or the Roman Catholic Church can persist even without a pope, making him unnecessary.
you clearly can't grasp the plain truth that the Church is in a crisis, are you even aware that the bible predicts this?
there's no irony and no contradiction..just your  laziness to do some basic research

 In the Gospel, Our Lord Jesus Christ informs us th
at in the last days the true Faith would hardly
be found on the earth.  He tells us that “in the holy place” itself there will be “the abomination of
desolation” (Mt. 24:15), and a deception so profound
 that, if it were possible, even the elect would
be deceived (Mt. 24:24).   
Matthew 24:15- “
When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which
was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place
: he that readeth let
him understand.”
Matthew 24:24-25- “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show
great signs and wonders,
insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect
.  Behold I
have told it to you, beforehand.”

 Thess. 2:3-5- “Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come
a revolt
[apostasy] first, and the man of sin be reve
aled, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and
is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped,
so that he sitteth in the
temple of God
, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was
yet with you, I told you these things?”
In 1903, Pope St. Pius X thought that he might
be seeing the beginning of the evils which will
fully come to pass in the last days.
Pope St. Pius X,
E Supremi
 (# 5), Oct. 4, 1903: “...
there is good reason to fear lest this
great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils
which are reserved for the last days; and that there may already be in the world the
‘Son of Perdition’ of whom the Apostle speaks
 (2 Thess. 2:3).”
1
The New Testament tells us that this deception will happen in the very heart of the Church’s
physical structures,
in “the Temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4) and “in the holy place” (Mt. 24:15). 
It will arise because people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #441 on: August 16, 2017, 12:03:45 AM »
not I but the Church of Christ...Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208...
Do you grok the irony and contradiction of your quoting popes, when you do not believe that there's any pope currently?  For, if a Roman Catholic needs to be united with a pope, either you ceased to be a Roman Catholic or the Roman Catholic Church can persist even without a pope, making him unnecessary.
you clearly can't grasp the plain truth that the Church is in a crisis, are you even aware that the bible predicts this?
there's no irony and no contradiction..just your  laziness to do some basic research

 In the Gospel, Our Lord Jesus Christ informs us th
at in the last days the true Faith would hardly
be found on the earth.  He tells us that “in the holy place” itself there will be “the abomination of
desolation” (Mt. 24:15), and a deception so profound
 that, if it were possible, even the elect would
be deceived (Mt. 24:24).   
Matthew 24:15- “
When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which
was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place
: he that readeth let
him understand.”
Matthew 24:24-25- “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show
great signs and wonders,
insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect
.  Behold I
have told it to you, beforehand.”

 Thess. 2:3-5- “Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come
a revolt
[apostasy] first, and the man of sin be reve
aled, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and
is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped,
so that he sitteth in the
temple of God
, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was
yet with you, I told you these things?”
In 1903, Pope St. Pius X thought that he might
be seeing the beginning of the evils which will
fully come to pass in the last days.
Pope St. Pius X,
E Supremi
 (# 5), Oct. 4, 1903: “...
there is good reason to fear lest this
great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils
which are reserved for the last days; and that there may already be in the world the
‘Son of Perdition’ of whom the Apostle speaks
 (2 Thess. 2:3).”
1
The New Testament tells us that this deception will happen in the very heart of the Church’s
physical structures,
in “the Temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4) and “in the holy place” (Mt. 24:15). 
It will arise because people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

Well you've made yourself sound like more of a kook than ever, but you're still not doing the pspacy's claims any favors, especially as its magisterium has no knowledge of this happening that would be extremely critical for Catholic Christians to understand.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #442 on: August 16, 2017, 12:12:43 AM »
not I but the Church of Christ...Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208...
Do you grok the irony and contradiction of your quoting popes, when you do not believe that there's any pope currently?  For, if a Roman Catholic needs to be united with a pope, either you ceased to be a Roman Catholic or the Roman Catholic Church can persist even without a pope, making him unnecessary.
you clearly can't grasp the plain truth that the Church is in a crisis, are you even aware that the bible predicts this?
there's no irony and no contradiction..just your  laziness to do some basic research

 In the Gospel, Our Lord Jesus Christ informs us th
at in the last days the true Faith would hardly
be found on the earth.  He tells us that “in the holy place” itself there will be “the abomination of
desolation” (Mt. 24:15), and a deception so profound
 that, if it were possible, even the elect would
be deceived (Mt. 24:24).   
Matthew 24:15- “
When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which
was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place
: he that readeth let
him understand.”
Matthew 24:24-25- “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show
great signs and wonders,
insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect
.  Behold I
have told it to you, beforehand.”

 Thess. 2:3-5- “Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come
a revolt
[apostasy] first, and the man of sin be reve
aled, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and
is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped,
so that he sitteth in the
temple of God
, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was
yet with you, I told you these things?”
In 1903, Pope St. Pius X thought that he might
be seeing the beginning of the evils which will
fully come to pass in the last days.
Pope St. Pius X,
E Supremi
 (# 5), Oct. 4, 1903: “...
there is good reason to fear lest this
great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils
which are reserved for the last days; and that there may already be in the world the
‘Son of Perdition’ of whom the Apostle speaks
 (2 Thess. 2:3).”
1
The New Testament tells us that this deception will happen in the very heart of the Church’s
physical structures,
in “the Temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4) and “in the holy place” (Mt. 24:15). 
It will arise because people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

Well you've made yourself sound like more of a kook than ever, but you're still not doing the pspacy's claims any favors, especially as its magisterium has no knowledge of this happening that would be extremely critical for Catholic Christians to understand.
you can't refute anything I post so you resort to ad hominem attacks..typical ..I used to do that when I was losing debates too..then I turned 9 and decided to act more mature..there always hope for you...I think

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #443 on: August 16, 2017, 12:17:54 AM »
Blah, blah, blah, more of the same pablum, ad nauseam...
You never squared off your sect without a pope and the need of there being a pope as head of the Church.  Evidently you are incapable of realizing anything about yourself or your heretical beliefs.

I rest my case.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 12:18:33 AM by Sharbel »
Sanctus Deus
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ
Άγιος ο Θεός

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #444 on: August 17, 2017, 12:33:35 AM »
Blah, blah, blah, more of the same pablum, ad nauseam...
You never squared off your sect without a pope and the need of there being a pope as head of the Church.  Evidently you are incapable of realizing anything about yourself or your heretical beliefs.

I rest my case.

the only case you have made is that you don't have a clue..leave the catholic apologetics to people like me who care about the truth..read the below and learn something..start taking your salvation seriously...evidently you are incapable of realizing the truth

St. Athanasius:"

Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they

are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."


St. Francis De Sales (17th

century), Doctor of the Church,

The Catholic Controversy, pp.

305-306: "

Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls

ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church..."

There is not one teaching of the Catholic Church th

at can be quoted which is contrary to the fact

that there is presently a counterfeit sect which ha

s reduced the true Catholic Church to a remnant

in the days of the Great Apostasy, which is presided over by antipopes who have falsely posed as popes. Those who assert that the Vatican II sect

is the Catholic Church assert that the Catholic

Church officially endorses false religions and fals

e doctrines. This is impossible and would mean

that the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Catholic Church.

The Church has existed for years without a pope, and does so every time a pope dies.

The Church has experienced a papal interregnum (i

.e. period without a pope) over 200 different

times in Church history. The longest papal

interregnum (before the Vatican II apostasy) was

between Pope St. Marcellinus (296-304) and Pope St.

Marcellus (308-309). It lasted for more than

three and a half years.

36

Further, theologians teach that the Church can exist

for even decades

without a pope.


The great schism of the West suggests to me a reflection which I take the liberty of

expressing here.

If this schism had not occurred, the hypothesis of such a thing

happening would appear to many chimerical [absurd]. They would say it could not

be; God would not permit the Church to come into so unhappy a situation

. Heresies

might spring up and spread and last painfully long, through the fault and to the

perdition of their authors and abettors, to the great distress too of the faithful, increased

by actual persecution in many places where the heretics were dominant.

But that the

true Church should remain between thirty and forty years without a thoroughly

ascertained Head, and representative of Christ on earth, this would not be

.

Yet it has

been

;

and we have no guarantee that it will not be again

, though we may fervently

hope otherwise. What I would infer is, that

we must not be too ready to pronounce on

what God may permit. We know with absolute certainty that He will fulfill His

promises

... We may also trust that He will do a great deal more than what He has bound

Himself by His promises. We may look forw

ard with cheering probability to exemption

for the future from some of the trouble and misfortunes that have befallen in the past.

But we, or our successors in the future generations of Christians, shall perhaps see

stranger evils than have yet been experienced

, even before the immediate approach of

that great winding up of all things on earth

that will precede the day of judgment. I am

not setting up for a prophet, nor pretending

to see unhappy wonders, of which I have no

knowledge whatever.

All I mean to convey is that contingencies regarding the Church,

not excluded by the Divine promises, cannot be regarded as practically impossible,

just because they would be terrible and distressing in a very high degree

.”

38

This is an excellent point. Fr. O’Reilly explains that if the Great Western Schism had never

occurred, Catholics would say that such a situ

ation (three competing claimants to the Papacy

with no thoroughly ascertained head for decades)

is impossible – just like those today who say

the sedevacantist “thesis” is impossible, even though the facts prove that it is true.

Offline michaelus

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #445 on: August 17, 2017, 12:38:24 AM »
Blah, blah, blah, more of the same pablum, ad nauseam...
You never squared off your sect without a pope and the need of there being a pope as head of the Church.  Evidently you are incapable of realizing anything about yourself or your heretical beliefs.

I rest my case.

the only case you have made is that you don't have a clue..leave the catholic apologetics to people like me who care about the truth..read the below and learn something..start taking your salvation seriously...evidently you are incapable of realizing the truth
You can't make an argument by blatantly dumping quotes copied from Most Holy Family Monastery.
"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, 'You are mad; you are not like us.'" - St. Anthony The Great

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #446 on: August 17, 2017, 12:47:46 AM »
Never seen spam quite like it, as tho a bot written by a Dominican had a seizure.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline sedevacantist

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #447 on: August 17, 2017, 07:56:23 AM »
Blah, blah, blah, more of the same pablum, ad nauseam...
You never squared off your sect without a pope and the need of there being a pope as head of the Church.  Evidently you are incapable of realizing anything about yourself or your heretical beliefs.

I rest my case.

the only case you have made is that you don't have a clue..leave the catholic apologetics to people like me who care about the truth..read the below and learn something..start taking your salvation seriously...evidently you are incapable of realizing the truth
You can't make an argument by blatantly dumping quotes copied from Most Holy Family Monastery.
says who?, you sound like the other genius who said I can't post from St Thomas..listen, either the info is true or it's not..if not just prove it false..when I quoted St Thomas the response was the quotes are forgeries..lol

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #448 on: August 17, 2017, 12:52:51 PM »
I feel strong bitterness toward Roman Catholic Church now. I am very angry that RC nun and layman imposed the fear of eternal damnation to force me to obey the RC.

I received lot of verbal abuse when I was RC.

When I was studying in University in Canada, I was very involved in Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Young adult group. I spent all my time for RC and Byzantine Catholic back in my university years. Because of that I almost failed university. I spend 6 years in university to complete my bachelor of science degree. However, I did not receive any spiritual healing and blessing. Right now I consider that it was wasting my time.
 RC took away my youth year and wasting so much of my time. Because of that I am over 30 years old now I still don't have job, car, house, wife and children. I am still doing the other degree.
you should fear for your salvation like the bible says, there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church

Thou sayest.

 :laugh:
I'm done.

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #449 on: August 17, 2017, 12:58:08 PM »
Blah, blah, blah, more of the same pablum, ad nauseam...
You never squared off your sect without a pope and the need of there being a pope as head of the Church.  Evidently you are incapable of realizing anything about yourself or your heretical beliefs.

I rest my case.

the only case you have made is that you don't have a clue..leave the catholic apologetics to people like me who care about the truth..read the below and learn something..start taking your salvation seriously...evidently you are incapable of realizing the truth
You can't make an argument by blatantly dumping quotes copied from Most Holy Family Monastery.
says who?, you sound like the other genius who said I can't post from St Thomas..listen, either the info is true or it's not..if not just prove it false..when I quoted St Thomas the response was the quotes are forgeries..lol

Thanks, I'm glad you were able to argue against me with logical debate rather than a usage of ad hominem attacks  ::)

Christ never said, "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. If not, call him an idiot to win the argument."
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:00:48 PM by LivenotoneviL »
I'm done.