Author Topic: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic  (Read 22598 times)

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Offline Anthony1986

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My name is Anthony. I was born in Taiwan from a non Christian family. My parent and my younger sister are not Christian.
I am currently studying dentistry in Madrid, Spain.

Before I begin my degree in Madrid I had been living in Untied States and Canada for many years.

When I was living in Minnesota, USA I was baptized in Lutheran church (ELCA) at the age of 17. When I moved to Canada the Lutheran church is very far away from the place I lived. In that time I didn't know much about the difference between ELCA and Roman Catholic church. So I received my confirmation in RC.
However, after a few months I encountered some verbal and spiritual abuses in RC. It caused me a lot of pain. 

In the year of 2006 I discovered the Eastern Orthodoxy. First time I was in Orthodox church I felt home. In Orthodoxy church I experience God's super natural love that Catholic and Protestant church don't have. However, because I have received confirmation in RC before. According to RC, a Catholic who left the Catholic church and become Orthodox Christian that is mean refuse to summit to the Pope. Which is a mortal sin, and can go to hell for that.

So I decided to go to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church. However, I find out it is very difficult to follow the Eastern spirituality and still be in full communion with Rome. I found out UGCC is very Latinized. Therefore I continue to travel East and attended the Orthodox church more frequent.

Finally in January 2012, I received Chrismation in Eastern Orthodox Church and became Orthodox Christian, in Waterloo Ontario, Canada.

However, I don't know why, recently I begin to fear of death and final judgement. Few months ago, I watch a lot of youtube videos from the traditional Latin Rite Catholic, like SSPX and  sedevacantist videos. I begin to fear of final damnation. Recently some of my friends who are Spanish who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy most of them reverted back to Catholicism. Some joint the SSPX chapel.

According to Roman Catholic church, a Roman Catholic become Orthodox Christian is schism and can result of final damnation. So few weeks ago, I contacted the SSPX priest in Madrid, and I had been asked to do the professional of faith, including accepted all the Dogma of council of Trent and Vatican I like papal infallibility,indulgence....They ask me to sign the paper and there were two witness there.

However, after I returned to Roman Catholic church it did not reduce my fear of final damnation. Even made my situation worst. I am more stressful and anxious. I find out there is a great significant difference between Roman Catholic dogma and Eastern Orthodoxy. However, people keep telling me there are no difference between Orthodox theology and Catholic theology.

I plan to follow all the Eastern Theology and spirituality but attending the SSPX chapel in order to been in communion with Rome. But I think it is kind of crazy.

My chrismation sponsor back in Canada suggested me to find an Orthodox priest to work on my problem. Otherwise he said I might become atheist one day. 
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2017, 05:44:43 AM »
Sorry English is not my first language so there are lot of grammar mistake.

I know best idea is to find an Orthodox priest to work on my problem. However I am being very anxious.

I know both Catholic and Orthodox church teach that private revelation and apparition are not require to believe.

However, I am curious the apparition like Fatima and  Lourdes prove RC might be the true church?

If RC is wrong church how can we explain the revelation by certain Catholic Saints like St Faustina, Padre Pio...

All the RC private revelation about Hell sacred me a lot.... I don't want to be burn in hell.

According to some traditional Catholic priest only 1% of world population can be saved and go to heaven. Most of people are damned.   
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 06:15:41 AM »
According to SSPX priest I should only attend the traditional Latin Mass. If there are no Traditional Latin Mass stay home to read the Sunday Mass missal.
But I think it is impossible for me. After 2-3 years I am moving back to Taiwan once I finish my degree. There is only the traditional Latin Mass once a month in Taiwan.

And I think some of the SSPX positions are too extreme.


I have many doubts about some Catholic dogma, especially Papacy. However, fear of final damnation I forced  my self to accept Papal supremacy and papal infallibility.

However, are those dogma really what apostles teach?

During the Council of Florence Pope Eugene IV only people in communion with Rome can be saved. However, there are so many post-schism Saints from the Orthodox Church like St. Seraphim of Sarvo. Some of the Orthodox saints were against the union with Rome like St. Mark of Ephesus.

Some of the Orthodox Saints are former Roman or Eastern Rite Catholic St. Alexis Toth, St. Maxim Sandovich, St. Procopius of Ustyug and St. Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague .

According to Rome refused to submitted to Pope is a mortal sin. Then why there are so many post-schism Orthodox Saints and Orthodox Saints who are former Roman or Eastern Rite Catholic?
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Online Vanhyo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2017, 06:42:15 AM »
Quote
However, I don't know why, recently I begin to fear of death and final judgement. Few months ago, I watch a lot of youtube videos from the traditional Latin Rite Catholic, like SSPX and  sedevacantist videos. I begin to fear of final damnation. Recently some of my friends who are Spanish who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy most of them reverted back to Catholicism. Some joint the SSPX chapel

You have to be extremely careful when you watch videos with sedevacantist and sspx, they are people filled with diabolical prelest, and can commune these energies to you just by listening to them.

I have personally experienced demonic attacks by watching vaticancatholic on youtube.

You should talk to you orthodox priest and ask for advice on whhat you need to do.
Quote
I had been asked to do the professional of faith, including accepted all the Dogma of council of Trent and Vatican I like papal infallibility,indulgence
If you enter in communion with these (mistaken folks) you will never have heavenly peace, but gnash your teeth and live in fear.


--Edited to take polemic level from "extreme" to "less extreme." Per the forum rules, only light polemics are allowed in this forum.

--Agabus, section moderator

« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 11:10:47 AM by Agabus »

Offline youssef

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2017, 07:20:33 AM »
Don't care so much about eternal damnation. Remenber that we don't believe because we want to go to heaven or because we fear of fire.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2017, 07:42:24 AM »
According to SSPX priest I should only attend the traditional Latin Mass. If there are no Traditional Latin Mass stay home to read the Sunday Mass missal.
But I think it is impossible for me. After 2-3 years I am moving back to Taiwan once I finish my degree. There is only the traditional Latin Mass once a month in Taiwan.

And I think some of the SSPX positions are too extreme.


I have many doubts about some Catholic dogma, especially Papacy. However, fear of final damnation I forced  my self to accept Papal supremacy and papal infallibility.

However, are those dogma really what apostles teach?

During the Council of Florence Pope Eugene IV only people in communion with Rome can be saved. However, there are so many post-schism Saints from the Orthodox Church like St. Seraphim of Sarvo. Some of the Orthodox saints were against the union with Rome like St. Mark of Ephesus.

Some of the Orthodox Saints are former Roman or Eastern Rite Catholic St. Alexis Toth, St. Maxim Sandovich, St. Procopius of Ustyug and St. Gorazd (Pavlik) of Prague .

According to Rome refused to submitted to Pope is a mortal sin. Then why there are so many post-schism Orthodox Saints and Orthodox Saints who are former Roman or Eastern Rite Catholic?

The SSPX is a somewhat extremist organization, with undesirable ties to anti-Semitism, and an inconsistent theology.  I would avoid them.

The Orthodox Church is focused on love; we adhere vigorously to our tradition, but we do so in a loving manner, because we love it.

The SSPX strikes me as being about fear and hatred, of the Catholic hierarchy, of non-Latin Rite Catholics, and so on.

What is more, it is unneccesary for Catholics to attend it; the encyclical Summorum Pontificum promulgated by Pope Benedict XVI reinstated universal access to the Tridentine Mass.  Since diocesan Latin masses are available, there is no point for a Catholic seeking the Latin mass to do so schismatically.

I believe it was St. Clement of Rome who wrote that schism is worse than heresy, which is why the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are in a dialogue with the hope of eventually restoring communion; when this restoration happens, I expect that the Orthodox among other things would require the RCC to abandon certain innovations in doctrine and liturgical practice which contradict the Orthodox faith.  (One gets the impression this might well be possible, because the RCC appears to want to restore communion with us more than we desire communion with them, the sticking point right now revolving around the Papacy).
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 08:00:39 AM »
Don't care so much about eternal damnation. Remenber that we don't believe because we want to go to heaven or because we fear of fire.
+1
I mean, we want to go to heaven, because we want to be with God.  But you're right; it shouldn't be about seeking reward or avoiding punishment.

OP you sound frustrated and confused, but you also sound like you're asking good questions.  I might caution you that seemingly everyone claims they are "Right" and that people will go to hell if they disagree.  Do you read Scripture and pray regularly?  This might be a good place to start, while you begin sorting through your questions.  It might be difficult, but try to practice patience and peace as you sort, too.  :)
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 08:05:16 AM »
Calm down. That would be my first advice. I don't think God wants you to feel miserable. You've gone quite a long way in just a few years. Sit down, breath, and think slowly where you feel most at peace. I believe the EO church is the Catholic Church but others can't make the decision for you.
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline youssef

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 08:28:07 AM »
Also i really think after reading your post, that you should start from the begining, do you really believe in God and that Jesus is the son of God.
Because you were baptized in a lutherean church, i had participate lately in some evangelism meeting, the pastor does really know how to do psychological influence, after he finish you will fell touched by his word, and after every meeting you have more then 10 person who want to baptised and some of them did come for the first time. Maybe some of your fear still come from some evangelicalism idea.

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2017, 08:34:40 AM »
Thank you everyone.

I only begin to pray twice a day morning and evening recently. However, I don't read scripture daily.

I know I should find the Orthodox priest to have a conversion to solve my problem as soon as possible.

However, what else should I do?

I should stop attending the Mass in SSPX chapel immediately?

Also read the church fathers writings and philokalia?

And pray as hard as possible? Fasting more? Do the penance more? 

I think my fear of God since when I was little kid. When I was 9 years old in Taiwan, I was in the summer camp run by  Presbyterian church. The camp leaders told the children that all the non- believers who refuse to accept Jesus Christ will go to hell. Or the Buddhist, Hindu...will end up in hell.
I was very scared when I was a little kid. 
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2017, 08:41:11 AM »
Personally I feel more comfortable and feel more peace in Orthodox church.

When I have conversation with Orthodox priests,the Orthodox priests are so calm and humble. They have a lot of patience.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2017, 08:50:55 AM »
I think it is very scary. Just by watching some SSPX, Sedevacantist and Michael Voris videos made me very scared.

And the first thing pop into my mind is to contact SSPX priest to talk to.

Is it really from God?
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2017, 09:02:32 AM »
Making the scariest, most threatening propaganda is not a mark of the true church (Leaving aside the other problems with the RCC and sedavacantism). Stop watching those videos and focus on Orthodox prayers and spirituality.
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2017, 11:25:07 AM »
I think my fear of God since when I was little kid. When I was 9 years old in Taiwan, I was in the summer camp run by  Presbyterian church. The camp leaders told the children that all the non- believers who refuse to accept Jesus Christ will go to hell. Or the Buddhist, Hindu...will end up in hell.
I was very scared when I was a little kid.

Try to unlearn that; it may color the rest of your journey and it doesn't sound like you need the extra complication.  There are some childhood church issues that I'm trying to unlearn as well; I know it's difficult.

Definitely read Scripture daily, and try to find and memorize some verses about God's love and mercy and repeat them (or just pray "Lord have mercy") whenever that fear starts creeping in.  It will be hard for you to think clearly if you are marinating in fear.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2017, 02:31:30 PM »
Hold on a minute. Are you saying that basically all of this confusion is caused by YouTube videos? If they make you doubt, the solution is easy: Don't watch them. If it doesn't get any better, throw away the device you use to watch them. Also you don't need to go to SSPX masses if you feel uncomfortable. If you are more of a trad Catholic and prefer the old mass you will know that there are alternatives.
The main thing is: Don't leave the true church because of a few stupid videos.
Sanctus Deus, Sanctus fortis, Sanctus immortalis, miserere nobis.

Online Vanhyo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2017, 02:41:23 PM »
Quote
My chrismation sponsor back in Canada suggested me to find an Orthodox priest to work on my problem. Otherwise he said I might become atheist one day.
Your friend gave you an excellent advice, till you find one, read books with the lives & teachings of orthodox saints to strengthen your faith.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:41:38 PM by Vanhyo »

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2017, 04:23:29 PM »
Hold on a minute. Are you saying that basically all of this confusion is caused by YouTube videos? If they make you doubt, the solution is easy: Don't watch them. If it doesn't get any better, throw away the device you use to watch them. Also you don't need to go to SSPX masses if you feel uncomfortable. If you are more of a trad Catholic and prefer the old mass you will know that there are alternatives.
The main thing is: Don't leave the true church because of a few stupid videos.

I think my problem is I have been "Sunday Christian" for past few months. Only practice my Christian faith on Sunday. So just some stupid videos from youtube destroyed my faith and lead me into confusion.

However it is really scary. The first thing pop into my mind is to contact the SSPX priest not the Orthodox priests or the Catholic priests from Archdiocese of Madrid.

I don't think it is from God.

Right now no more stupid videos. No more SSPX, sedevacantist, Miachel Voris this type of crazy videos.


O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2017, 06:42:39 PM »
Personally I feel more comfortable and feel more peace in Orthodox church.

When I have conversation with Orthodox priests,the Orthodox priests are so calm and humble. They have a lot of patience.

I think it is very scary. Just by watching some SSPX, Sedevacantist and Michael Voris videos made me very scared.

And the first thing pop into my mind is to contact SSPX priest to talk to.

Is it really from God?


There is your answer.  Sacred scripture says God is Love.   If reading SSPX agitprop makes you nervour or upset, and you feel at peace in Orthodoxy, the choice should be obvious. 

I don't understand why you are still even wrestling with this question.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alkis

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2017, 06:55:42 PM »
Thank you everyone.

I only begin to pray twice a day morning and evening recently. However, I don't read scripture daily.

I know I should find the Orthodox priest to have a conversion to solve my problem as soon as possible.

However, what else should I do?

I should stop attending the Mass in SSPX chapel immediately?

Also read the church fathers writings and philokalia?

And pray as hard as possible? Fasting more? Do the penance more? 

I think my fear of God since when I was little kid. When I was 9 years old in Taiwan, I was in the summer camp run by  Presbyterian church. The camp leaders told the children that all the non- believers who refuse to accept Jesus Christ will go to hell. Or the Buddhist, Hindu...will end up in hell.
I was very scared when I was a little kid.

Pray 3 times per day, read as much as you can the holy scriptures, fast when there are fasts, read the works of the Fathers (yes Philokalia would be a great idea)... And don't fear about eternal damnation. Just start your sanctification... It is not a mortal sin to refuse the Pope. :p Return to home.
For You keep my lamp burning; Lord my God You illumine my darkness. (Psalm 17:29)

Offline recent convert

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2017, 07:00:35 PM »
I would also
 Arefully  read Romans 2. It is clearly evident that God will judge the hearts of all individuals. There is no syncretism here it is just the love of God and  He will save those He knows are worthy. Just pray for others and God will do the rest.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2017, 07:06:44 PM »
I would also
 Arefully  read Romans 2. It is clearly evident that God will judge the hearts of all individuals. There is no syncretism here it is just the love of God and  He will save those He knows are worthy. Just pray for others and God will do the rest.

Indeed so.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2017, 02:40:42 AM »
Hold on a minute. Are you saying that basically all of this confusion is caused by YouTube videos? If they make you doubt, the solution is easy: Don't watch them. If it doesn't get any better, throw away the device you use to watch them. Also you don't need to go to SSPX masses if you feel uncomfortable. If you are more of a trad Catholic and prefer the old mass you will know that there are alternatives.
The main thing is: Don't leave the true church because of a few stupid videos.

I think my problem is I have been "Sunday Christian" for past few months. Only practice my Christian faith on Sunday. So just some stupid videos from youtube destroyed my faith and lead me into confusion.

However it is really scary. The first thing pop into my mind is to contact the SSPX priest not the Orthodox priests or the Catholic priests from Archdiocese of Madrid.

I don't think it is from God.

Right now no more stupid videos. No more SSPX, sedevacantist, Miachel Voris this type of crazy videos.

The Institute of Christ the King is in Madrid:
http://latinmassdir.org/location/iglesia-del-tercer-monasterio-de-la-visitacion-madrid/
Why not go there?
Sanctus Deus, Sanctus fortis, Sanctus immortalis, miserere nobis.

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2017, 02:42:06 AM »
Personally I feel more comfortable and feel more peace in Orthodox church.

When I have conversation with Orthodox priests,the Orthodox priests are so calm and humble. They have a lot of patience.

I think it is very scary. Just by watching some SSPX, Sedevacantist and Michael Voris videos made me very scared.

And the first thing pop into my mind is to contact SSPX priest to talk to.

Is it really from God?


There is your answer.  Sacred scripture says God is Love.   If reading SSPX agitprop makes you nervour or upset, and you feel at peace in Orthodoxy, the choice should be obvious. 

I don't understand why you are still even wrestling with this question.

It is not quite that easy, obviously. The mere fact that he is having doubts does not indicate that Orthodoxy is right (for him).
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 02:43:17 AM by Lepanto »
Sanctus Deus, Sanctus fortis, Sanctus immortalis, miserere nobis.

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2017, 02:50:48 AM »
Hold on a minute. Are you saying that basically all of this confusion is caused by YouTube videos? If they make you doubt, the solution is easy: Don't watch them. If it doesn't get any better, throw away the device you use to watch them. Also you don't need to go to SSPX masses if you feel uncomfortable. If you are more of a trad Catholic and prefer the old mass you will know that there are alternatives.
The main thing is: Don't leave the true church because of a few stupid videos.

I think my problem is I have been "Sunday Christian" for past few months. Only practice my Christian faith on Sunday. So just some stupid videos from youtube destroyed my faith and lead me into confusion.

However it is really scary. The first thing pop into my mind is to contact the SSPX priest not the Orthodox priests or the Catholic priests from Archdiocese of Madrid.

I don't think it is from God.

Right now no more stupid videos. No more SSPX, sedevacantist, Miachel Voris this type of crazy videos.

The Institute of Christ the King is in Madrid:
http://latinmassdir.org/location/iglesia-del-tercer-monasterio-de-la-visitacion-madrid/
Why not go there?

They change location now. Last Sunday I went to that Monastery the nun told me that the Latin Mass had stop long time ago. So last Sunday I have to go to Novos Ordo Mass. However, my friend gave me the update information about the Latin Mass in Madrid. So this Sunday I might go to the Latin Mass.

The difficult thing is some of my Spanish friends go to SSPX. It is difficult to tell them I am not comfortable with SSPX. But I will try to tell them. 
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2017, 02:53:41 AM »
Personally I feel more comfortable and feel more peace in Orthodox church.

When I have conversation with Orthodox priests,the Orthodox priests are so calm and humble. They have a lot of patience.

I think it is very scary. Just by watching some SSPX, Sedevacantist and Michael Voris videos made me very scared.

And the first thing pop into my mind is to contact SSPX priest to talk to.

Is it really from God?


There is your answer.  Sacred scripture says God is Love.   If reading SSPX agitprop makes you nervour or upset, and you feel at peace in Orthodoxy, the choice should be obvious. 

I don't understand why you are still even wrestling with this question.

It is not quite that easy, obviously. The mere fact that he is having doubts does not indicate that Orthodoxy is right (for him).

The thing is so many Catholic apologists make the very strong claim about the papacy. Sometime they use a very aggressive tone. It is easy to believe papacy after watching those Catholic apologists video.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2017, 03:07:59 AM »
The question I have is if RC is wrong. Then only EO and OO left for use to choice.

Then which one is the right church EO or OO???

Also, if RC is wrong, EO and OO are right, then why there are more RC parishes in this planet? Why RC spread so fast?

Every where you go there are RC parishes. In my native country Taiwan there are only two Eastern Orthodox parishes, however there are more RC parishes in Taiwan than EO.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2017, 03:27:24 AM »
In 2-3 years I will finish my study in Madrid. Then I will move back to Taiwan.

The Novos Ordo RC parish just about 10 minutes drive from my parents' house. The Orthodox parishes are two hours away by train.

If based on practical reason I should be RC.

However, I don't believe I should choice my faith based on convenience.

I don't think I can follow the Orthodox spirituality and theology and go to Novos Ordo Mass on Sunday.

I don't think in the future when I have children I can teach my kids Orthodox spirituality and theology but at the same time push them to accept all the RC dogma.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline youssef

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2017, 03:28:56 AM »
The question I have is if RC is wrong. Then only EO and OO left for use to choice.

Then which one is the right church EO or OO???

Also, if RC is wrong, EO and OO are right, then why there are more RC parishes in this planet? Why RC spread so fast?

Every where you go there are RC parishes. In my native country Taiwan there are only two Eastern Orthodox parishes, however there are more RC parishes in Taiwan than EO.

You have more non christian then christian so the number had nothing to do.
For me you should stop from the begining, you are so much confuse. Try to rejoice where you feel confortable till you find peace.

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2017, 04:07:29 AM »
If I just follow my heart, I will say that the Eastern Orthodoxy should be the place for me.

However, if based on psychological factors, I think I will be RC.

Maybe I don't know enough church history and theology. I am so easy to be convinced by the RC apologists.

However, instead of listen to those apologists or reading the articles online. I think best idea is for me to study theology and church history seriously. In order to find out which one is the real apostolic church created by Christ.


   
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2017, 05:24:57 AM »
However, instead of listen to those apologists or reading the articles online. I think best idea is for me to study theology and church history seriously. In order to find out which one is the real apostolic church created by Christ.
Yes!
And remember "audiatur et altera pars", i.e. do not listen exclusively to Orthodox/Catholic apologists.
I do not really know anything about Taiwan, but if you are planning to live there and the Orthodox parish is two hours of driving away, the distance is something to be considered.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 05:25:20 AM by Lepanto »
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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2017, 06:50:40 AM »
Quote
The thing is so many Catholic apologists make the very strong claim about the papacy. Sometime they use a very aggressive tone. It is easy to believe papacy after watching those Catholic apologists video.
You mean quoting forged documents like pseudo isodere and isolated sentences from church fathers out of context ?

People who are new to christianity can be easili decieved by these wolves, i know many stories of divine wrath where God repudiates the latin heretics, in faviour of the orthodox church.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 06:51:20 AM by Vanhyo »

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2017, 07:22:15 AM »
Quote
The thing is so many Catholic apologists make the very strong claim about the papacy. Sometime they use a very aggressive tone. It is easy to believe papacy after watching those Catholic apologists video.
You mean quoting forged documents like pseudo isodere and isolated sentences from church fathers out of context ?

People who are new to christianity can be easili decieved by these wolves, i know many stories of divine wrath where God repudiates the latin heretics, in faviour of the orthodox church.
Why are you so angry? I can imagine that this kind of fanaticism is the exact thing that the OP may have observed in those Sedi videos.
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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2017, 07:30:36 AM »
Quote
The thing is so many Catholic apologists make the very strong claim about the papacy. Sometime they use a very aggressive tone. It is easy to believe papacy after watching those Catholic apologists video.
You mean quoting forged documents like pseudo isodere and isolated sentences from church fathers out of context ?

People who are new to christianity can be easili decieved by these wolves, i know many stories of divine wrath where God repudiates the latin heretics, in faviour of the orthodox church.

I read some articles from Catholic Answers, they provide many quotes from the Church Fathers to prove the papacy. That is why I am very confuse.
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline LBK

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2017, 08:04:30 AM »

I read some articles from Catholic Answers, they provide many quotes from the Church Fathers to prove the papacy. That is why I am very confuse.

Anthony, I can understand your confusion, but there's a simple answer.  :)

Christ appointed not one apostle, but twelve, and later another seventy. Christ gave the authority to bind and loose to all the Apostles, not just to only one. The Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost on all the disciples, not just on St Peter. And it was St Paul who corrected St Peter at the first Council at Jerusalem, where St James, the brother of the Lord, was in charge.

So to say St Peter is the boss of all the others is simply wrong.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2017, 08:14:17 AM »

I read some articles from Catholic Answers, they provide many quotes from the Church Fathers to prove the papacy. That is why I am very confuse.

Anthony, I can understand your confusion, but there's a simple answer.  :)

Christ appointed not one apostle, but twelve, and later another seventy. Christ gave the authority to bind and loose to all the Apostles, not just to only one. The Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost on all the disciples, not just on St Peter. And it was St Paul who corrected St Peter at the first Council at Jerusalem, where St James, the brother of the Lord, was in charge.

So to say St Peter is the boss of all the others is simply wrong.

Ok I see.
Some of my RC friends they argue that Orthodox church does not have central authority. Every bishops have a voice so there are some confusion in Orthodox church.
Also, so many RCs said that Eastern Orthodox Church does not have a Pope so there are no additional councils after Seven Ecumenical Council.
RCs said  there are so many canonical territory problem because there is no Pope in Eastern Orthodox Church.

What are the responses from Orthodox Christians?
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2017, 08:26:06 AM »
Many Roman Catholics that that the Roman Catholic Church has doctrine development. That the Holy Spirit is guiding the Roman Catholic Church to move forward. Some said because lack of central authority in Eastern Orthodox Church, so there is no doctrine development in Eastern Orthodox Church.

Also, many RCs said that Eastern Orthodox Church always compromise to secular authorities like Byzantine Empire, Soviet Union, and communist governments in Eastern Europe.

Any responses from Orthodox Christians?
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2017, 08:42:26 AM »
So to say St Peter is the boss of all the others is simply wrong.
Indeed, nowhere in scripture was Peter the boss nor was the pope of Rome the boss in the history of the first millennium.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2017, 08:42:40 AM »
Check your sources. Almost none of the Papal quotes are genuine, or are provided a genuine interpretation. I've read and re-read Steven Ray's book, among other books and lists of Papal quotes, and they're almost always distorted in some way.

Many Roman Catholics that that the Roman Catholic Church has doctrine development. That the Holy Spirit is guiding the Roman Catholic Church to move forward. Some said because lack of central authority in Eastern Orthodox Church, so there is no doctrine development in Eastern Orthodox Church.

Also, many RCs said that Eastern Orthodox Church always compromise to secular authorities like Byzantine Empire, Soviet Union, and communist governments in Eastern Europe.

Any responses from Orthodox Christians?

Doctrinal development is a bad thing, not a good thing. It sullies the tradition and purity of the faith. The Church is the guardian of tradition, not the main lead developer of tradition.
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2017, 08:44:56 AM »
That the Holy Spirit is guiding the Roman Catholic Church to move forward.
Orthodox claim that Holy Spirit is guiding the Church in order to preserve trhe true faith and disover it more deeply. If you move forward, there is a change you fall into a heresy.

Some said because lack of central authority in Eastern Orthodox Church, so there is no doctrine development in Eastern Orthodox Church.
The Central Authory in the Orthodox Church is Jesus Christ himself. Who or what can be a better authority?

Also, many RCs said that Eastern Orthodox Church always compromise to secular authorities like Byzantine Empire, Soviet Union, and communist governments in Eastern Europe.
Byzantien Empire - in some way yes. But, since I consider that the whole Orthodox Church is EOs plus OOs, the second one can say something different.
Soviet Union, communist governments - sometiems in parts of Poland with little Orthodox population people confuse Orthodoxy with communism (sic!).
Personally, I think that communism was something create specially in order to destroy or weak Orthodoxy. For me there is no a coincidence that firstly communism "attacked" countries with Orthodox majority and huge Orthodox minority.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2017, 08:47:21 AM »
Hold on a minute. Are you saying that basically all of this confusion is caused by YouTube videos? If they make you doubt, the solution is easy: Don't watch them. If it doesn't get any better, throw away the device you use to watch them. Also you don't need to go to SSPX masses if you feel uncomfortable. If you are more of a trad Catholic and prefer the old mass you will know that there are alternatives.
The main thing is: Don't leave the true church because of a few stupid videos.

He's not leaving the true Church, he's leaving Rome.
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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2017, 08:47:46 AM »
I think my problem is I have been "Sunday Christian" for past few months. Only practice my Christian faith on Sunday. So just some stupid videos from youtube destroyed my faith and lead me into confusion.

However it is really scary. The first thing pop into my mind is to contact the SSPX priest not the Orthodox priests or the Catholic priests from Archdiocese of Madrid.

I don't think it is from God.

Right now no more stupid videos. No more SSPX, sedevacantist, Miachel Voris this type of crazy videos.
St. Ignatius of Loyola left the Churches his masterpiece, the "Discernment of Spirits".  You can tell where a feeling or a thought come from by its fruits.  If the fruit is of peace or joy, then the source is from the Good Spirit; if the fruit is of restlessness or sadness, then the source is from the evil spirit.  Also, never make a change of life or of plans when restless or sad.
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Online Vanhyo

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2017, 08:48:47 AM »
Quote
Why are you so angry? I can imagine that this kind of fanaticism is the exact thing that the OP may have observed in those Sedi videos
Angry and a fanatic ? No..lol.

Given the nature of this discussion we (me and you)are to be at odds however.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 08:50:23 AM by Vanhyo »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2017, 08:50:17 AM »
The question I have is if RC is wrong. Then only EO and OO left for use to choice.

Then which one is the right church EO or OO???

Also, if RC is wrong, EO and OO are right, then why there are more RC parishes in this planet? Why RC spread so fast?

Every where you go there are RC parishes. In my native country Taiwan there are only two Eastern Orthodox parishes, however there are more RC parishes in Taiwan than EO.

The same way Sunni Islam spread, the violence of the State and of the sword. EO vs OO is a extremely complicated issue, I've given up trying to make sense of it. I sort of think what Mina Soliman said is helpful, just be Orthodox don't worry about which clique you join.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2017, 08:53:56 AM »

I read some articles from Catholic Answers, they provide many quotes from the Church Fathers to prove the papacy. That is why I am very confuse.

Anthony, I can understand your confusion, but there's a simple answer.  :)

Christ appointed not one apostle, but twelve, and later another seventy. Christ gave the authority to bind and loose to all the Apostles, not just to only one. The Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost on all the disciples, not just on St Peter. And it was St Paul who corrected St Peter at the first Council at Jerusalem, where St James, the brother of the Lord, was in charge.

So to say St Peter is the boss of all the others is simply wrong.

Ok I see.
Some of my RC friends they argue that Orthodox church does not have central authority. Every bishops have a voice so there are some confusion in Orthodox church.
Also, so many RCs said that Eastern Orthodox Church does not have a Pope so there are no additional councils after Seven Ecumenical Council.
RCs said  there are so many canonical territory problem because there is no Pope in Eastern Orthodox Church.

What are the responses from Orthodox Christians?

We have nine Ecumenical Councils. Two are just not 'officially' councils. Ecumenical merely means "imperial", councils sanctioned by the imperial authority, having nothing to do with the Pope. But again, all of this stems from an assumption that we need, or Jesus wanted, a central authority. I think that's basically absent from history. There was no central authority within Christianity for the first millennium. The authority par excellence was the Church itself, through Her Holy Tradition. Not a specific or single Bishop.
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Re: Where should I go now? Eastern Orthodoxy or SSPX Latin Catholic
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2017, 09:00:54 AM »
Also, many RCs said that Eastern Orthodox Church always compromise to secular authorities like Byzantine Empire, Soviet Union, and communist governments in Eastern Europe.
The Roman Church added the Filioque to the Creed because Charlemagne wanted to be the sole Roman emperor and wanted to impugn the other Roman emperor in Constantinople by accusing him of heresy for failing to say the Creed with the Filioque.  And though popes resisted Charlemagne more or less successfully, the Germanic Holy Roman emperors continued putting pressure on popes until Pope Benedict V officially added the Filioque to the Creed.


And then we had the cases of the Roman Church siding with Franco in Spain, Mussolini in Italy, the military dictatorships in Latin America, etc.

(Do not take this discussion of politics further. If you want to do so, do so here. --Agabus)

Perhaps such choices, as poor as they seem from the 21st century, might have seemed the least bad at the time, for both the Roman and the Orthodox Churches.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 02:28:03 PM by Agabus »
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