Author Topic: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies  (Read 869 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RandomGalOnTheNet

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • St. Theodota, pray for me!
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« on: June 30, 2017, 05:44:29 PM »
I know that you aren't supposed to be cremated, but what happens if your line of work involves the risk of being blown to smithereens, burning to ashes or being otherwise unrecoverable?  I'm thinking astronauts, deep sea oil rig workers, and such.  Would you still get an orthodox funeral? Would it be suggested that you find another line of work?

Offline Porter ODoran

  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • Monahos.net: "Lawful Evil"; OC.net: "Chaotic Evil"
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2017, 05:50:11 PM »
Oh, we believe in the resurrection of the body. We just don't flaunt that grace by willfully destroying our loved one's remains.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline RaphaCam

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,030
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2017, 06:15:42 PM »
In some parts of the world, such as Japan, cremation is the norm, burials being either extremely expensive or outright banned. I recall reading about stances from the Japanese Orthodox Church against this practice, but this doesn't mean they'll refuse to commemorate their dead.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 06:16:43 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Section Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,262
  • Faith: The Angelus
  • Jurisdiction: Whichever one you think is wrong
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2017, 06:27:00 PM »
This reminds me of a situation in which years and years after 9/11, someone found a vial of blood in storage that belonged to a first responder whose body was never recovered from the WTC. With just that vial of blood, the family had an RC funeral — for which a body is required — in 2016.

I know it's not Orthodox, but curious nonetheless.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 06:27:23 PM by Agabus »
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline IXOYE

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,708
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2017, 07:43:59 PM »
Yes, one would get an Orthodox funeral in such instances.

Offline Theophania

  • Ecumenical Dissipation Association *OF* America
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,812
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2017, 08:56:26 PM »
This reminds me of a situation in which years and years after 9/11, someone found a vial of blood in storage that belonged to a first responder whose body was never recovered from the WTC. With just that vial of blood, the family had an RC funeral — for which a body is required — in 2016.

I know it's not Orthodox, but curious nonetheless.

I find this incredibly poignant.

That person was loved, had hopes and dreams and fears, and the only thing left of them on this earth was a vial of blood.
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,030
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2017, 11:49:04 PM »
This reminds me of a situation in which years and years after 9/11, someone found a vial of blood in storage that belonged to a first responder whose body was never recovered from the WTC. With just that vial of blood, the family had an RC funeral — for which a body is required — in 2016.

I know it's not Orthodox, but curious nonetheless.

I find this incredibly poignant.

That person was loved, had hopes and dreams and fears, and the only thing left of them on this earth was a vial of blood.
I find it beautiful, like they were waiting so long to find something from their loved one and this happened.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 11:54:37 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 18,407
  • You're my guardian angel hiding in the woods
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2017, 02:09:38 AM »
It doesn't take much for someone to be commemorated.  Some ink on a piece of paper for the priest to read.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Alpha60

  • A thing of routers, hubs and switches, and dreary web GUIs
  • Technical Director
  • Protokentarchos
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,368
  • OCNet Systems and Network Operations
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2017, 11:52:28 AM »
Consider this: the body of our most glorious lady, the Theotokos, is completely "unrecoverable" in the sense that it already was "recovered" by God into Heaven, where she lives (by the way, does this mean that technically she has also been resurrected, and is therefore in a separate category in that respect from the reposed saints, or would resurrection in her case refer to the reanimation and translation of her glorified body to the New Earth?

We don't cremate because it is a nasty practice that is associated with Paganism (specifically Roman and also Hinduism and Buddhism by and large).   However, this should not be extrapolated as meaning that we regard an intact body as a prerequisite for resurrection.   St. Ignatius of Antioch was devoured entirely by lions.

To their credit, Orthodox Jews and Muslims show a similiar respect to the body as Orthodox Christians.

I am deeply saddened by the "when I'm gone, I won't need it any more" crypto-Gnostic argument I have even heard from my own relatives. 

~

Cremation has always revolted me.  I was horrified to discover the Episcopal Church I attended during my "transitional phase" after feeling aliented from the UMC, before taking the plunge into Orthodoxy, had a Columbarium installed.

The only crematory procedure that strikes me as possibly providing proper honor to the holy bodies of the deceased is the procedure wherein the bome fragments, which are carbon, are converted into a diamond.  It seems to me this could be a viable approach to honoring the remains of persons who are forcibly cremated by the laws of certain countries, like Japan, or due to infectious disease.  In other words, if the government forces a cremation and gives the family the "cremains," I think the Orthodox church should consider the process of converting them into a diamomd, in order to keep them unified (as opposed to the horrible practice of scattering the ashes), and as a means of protesting against cremation in general.  This would provide a relic which could be kissed and venerated; cremains, by virtue of having been pulverized in a special machine called a cremulator, cannot be kissed or venerated.

The cremulator is, by the way, the worst part of cremation.  The burning of the body is itself sickeninf in every respecr, but, Basically, at the end, they use a rake to remove the skeleton from the furnace, and then transfer these into a machine called a cremulator which crushes the bones into the fine grey poweder we call "the ashes."  But the are not ashes, but pulverized bones.

There is a new European process of "chemical cremation" that involves dissolving the body with salt and basically flushing it down the sewer, which is even more horrible.

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,030
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Funerals and unrecoverable bodies
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2017, 01:30:14 PM »
Consider this: the body of our most glorious lady, the Theotokos, is completely "unrecoverable" in the sense that it already was "recovered" by God into Heaven, where she lives (by the way, does this mean that technically she has also been resurrected, and is therefore in a separate category in that respect from the reposed saints, or would resurrection in her case refer to the reanimation and translation of her glorified body to the New Earth?
Not only technically, and there's nothing to be reanimated.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth