Author Topic: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.  (Read 3423 times)

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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #90 on: August 22, 2017, 01:38:38 PM »
Katherine Kelaidis is an Orthodox Christian. Her writing is not irreproachable but she is sincerely addressing a major problem facing Orthodoxy. I could hardly call it a hit piece- if anything, it leaves some of the worst details out.

As I have also posted elsewhere, this guy is an Orthodox priest:



So, being a registered Orthodox Christian doesn't really give credence as to whether or not they are sincere about their faith, follow the dogmas of the faith, show love to other people, or promote heterodoxy.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 01:39:54 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #91 on: August 22, 2017, 01:39:43 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 01:41:14 PM by Iconodule »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #92 on: August 22, 2017, 01:43:21 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.

Working hard to embody the "self-loathing Orthodox" of a recently-posted article, I see.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #93 on: August 22, 2017, 01:45:55 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.

Working hard to embody the "self-loathing Orthodox" of a recently-posted article, I see.

Does that make you an Orthodox Likudnik?
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2017, 01:48:32 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.

Okay, fine - Sergius I of Constantinople and Pope Honorius were part of the Orthodox Church, as was Eutyches, Nestorius, Pope Nicholas I, Pope Leo IX, etc.
Does being a member of the Orthodox Church prevent individual people from writing criticisms which are heretical in their content, even to the point of maliciousness and depravity?
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #95 on: August 22, 2017, 01:50:19 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.

Okay, fine - Sergius I of Constantinople and Pope Honorius were part of the Orthodox Church, as was Eutyches, Nestorius, Pope Nicholas I, Pope Leo IX, etc.
Does being a member of the Orthodox Church prevent individual people from writing criticisms which are heretical in their content, even to the point of maliciousness and depravity?

Not what I said, but keep piling on the strawmen. You haven't even entered the Church yet and here you are smiting apostates. Good for you! (And that, me boy, is an ad hominem).
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #96 on: August 22, 2017, 01:55:23 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.

So we shouldn't debate about anything and accept the fact that there exists pure relativism, especially as it pertains to fundamental morals and faith like how there is "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" and how homosexual relationships were condemned three times in the New Testament alone, let alone the entire history of the Church?

May I remind you that faith is a very serious thing we should discuss and not leave up in the air, which is why, in order to find truth, I've listened to you and Porter who are wiser than I am in even such issues as Westernized iconography?

But if this article is condemning "homophobia" in the sense of believing that stating same-sex relationships are morally unacceptable is equivalent to hatred, shouldn't we make sure to anathematize this article personally?
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #97 on: August 22, 2017, 01:56:48 PM »
Why are you berating inquirers and telling them they're unwelcome in the Church, just because you're frustrated with how an internet argument is turning out for you? You've crossed a line.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #98 on: August 22, 2017, 01:57:28 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.

So we shouldn't debate about anything and accept the fact that there exists pure relativism, especially as it pertains to fundamental morals and faith like how there is "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" and how homosexual relationships were condemned three times in the New Testament alone, let alone the entire history of the Church?

Yeah, that's exactly what I said! How wise you are.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #99 on: August 22, 2017, 02:02:32 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.

Okay, fine - Sergius I of Constantinople and Pope Honorius were part of the Orthodox Church, as was Eutyches, Nestorius, Pope Nicholas I, Pope Leo IX, etc.
Does being a member of the Orthodox Church prevent individual people from writing criticisms which are heretical in their content, even to the point of maliciousness and depravity?

Not what I said, but keep piling on the strawmen. You haven't even entered the Church yet and here you are smiting apostates. Good for you! (And that, me boy, is an ad hominem).

Am I smiting them? No, I am not. I am simply stating they were members of the Orthodox Church, and they were condemned for heresy.

Although I admit that the word "heresy" has too much of a Crusader-like connotation, according to Encyclopedia Britannica, "Heresy is a theological doctrine or system rejected as false by ecclesiastical authority."

I am saying that about those people, and they believed such doctrines. I'm saying literally nothing less, and nothing more, and using history that simply being a member of a religious organization doesn't give someone authority to change dogma, especially in the context of Christianity.

And, I am ignorant, with only my Roman Catholic experiences and similarities to be used with my education. I am willing to change my opinions to conform to sound, logical, and valid Orthodox dogma - and if I'm incorrect, please demonstrate it to me via logic or Orthodox dogma, not name calling. After talking with Porter about iconography, my ideas are more in line with his.

And although maybe I made my argument too complex, I wanted to demonstrate where I was coming from. Maybe I'm being a sophist in my analysis of the article, but you have not demonstrated it either.

And calling me a novice, therefore not valid, is as ad-hominem as you can get, as pointed out by the literal definition of the word - you are attacking my characteristics, not the substance of the argument itself.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:05:56 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #100 on: August 22, 2017, 02:03:33 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.


So we shouldn't debate about anything and accept the fact that there exists pure relativism, especially as it pertains to fundamental morals and faith like how there is "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" and how homosexual relationships were condemned three times in the New Testament alone, let alone the entire history of the Church?

Yeah, that's exactly what I said! How wise you are.

No....if you read the entirety of my argument, it is what the author of the article is implying, said article which you are greatly supporting.

Quote from the article:
"The best answer I can posit: anti-Semitism and homophobia.......
But the simple fact is that the institutional Church has been casual in challenging the most egregious public statements made by some of its more visible adherents, clergy and laity alike.
When high-profile, decidedly mainstream Orthodox converts like Rod Dreher promote the idea that modern society has become so corrupt that Christians should separate themselves from society completely and cites gay marriage as his “case-in-point,” what message does it send to other, less-refined discontents?"

And I never claimed to be wise.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:10:48 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #101 on: August 22, 2017, 02:16:59 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.


So we shouldn't debate about anything and accept the fact that there exists pure relativism, especially as it pertains to fundamental morals and faith like how there is "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" and how homosexual relationships were condemned three times in the New Testament alone, let alone the entire history of the Church?

Yeah, that's exactly what I said! How wise you are.

No....if you read the entirety of my argument, it is what the author of the article is implying, said article which you are greatly supporting.

Quote from the article:
"The best answer I can posit: anti-Semitism and homophobia.......
But the simple fact is that the institutional Church has been casual in challenging the most egregious public statements made by some of its more visible adherents, clergy and laity alike.
When high-profile, decidedly mainstream Orthodox converts like Rod Dreher promote the idea that modern society has become so corrupt that Christians should separate themselves from society completely and cites gay marriage as his “case-in-point,” what message does it send to other, less-refined discontents?"

And I never claimed to be wise.

Suggesting that Rod Dreher is a representative of mainstream Orthodoxy, and gives a radical interpretation of either asceticism or isolationism as an example of Rod Dreher (from her perspective), deductively states that mainstream Orthodoxy is radical and needs to be changed.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:23:25 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #102 on: August 22, 2017, 02:23:00 PM »
Since you imply that Matthew Heimbach is the infallible Pope of Orthodoxdom, this is suggestive that you are the author of of the Dred-Scott decision and, deductively, proves that you are Joseph Goebbels' brain in a jar. 
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #103 on: August 22, 2017, 02:23:36 PM »
Well, he actually isn't a priest. But he is one example of what Kelaidis is talking about. But if you want to come into our church and play the takfiri game, please take it elsewhere.


So we shouldn't debate about anything and accept the fact that there exists pure relativism, especially as it pertains to fundamental morals and faith like how there is "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" and how homosexual relationships were condemned three times in the New Testament alone, let alone the entire history of the Church?

Yeah, that's exactly what I said! How wise you are.

No....if you read the entirety of my argument, it is what the author of the article is implying, said article which you are greatly supporting.

Quote from the article:
"The best answer I can posit: anti-Semitism and homophobia.......
But the simple fact is that the institutional Church has been casual in challenging the most egregious public statements made by some of its more visible adherents, clergy and laity alike.
When high-profile, decidedly mainstream Orthodox converts like Rod Dreher promote the idea that modern society has become so corrupt that Christians should separate themselves from society completely and cites gay marriage as his “case-in-point,” what message does it send to other, less-refined discontents?"

And I never claimed to be wise.

Suggesting that Rod Dreher is a representative of mainstream Orthodoxy, and gives a radical interpretation of either asceticism or isolationism as an example, deductively states that mainstream Orthodoxy is radical and needs to be changed.

Right on.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #104 on: August 22, 2017, 02:24:31 PM »
Since you imply that Matthew Heimbach is the infallible Pope of Orthodoxdom, this is suggestive that you are the author of of the Dred-Scott decision and, deductively, proves that you are Joseph Goebbels' brain in a jar.

It's unfortunate that your tactics aren't really working or convincing in this instance  ;)
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #105 on: August 22, 2017, 04:08:38 PM »
Just to end this conversation, it would appropriate to state that I fully accept Galatians 3:28, and I hold no prejudice against anyone of their race - and I am in no way defending the extreme nationalistic wings, but am bitterly attacking the article in its logic.

I can see what she was trying to do looking back at it, as I've met people who are looking forward to Russia invading Turkey and reestablishing Constantinople, but to imply that conservative Orthodox values are the root of this radicalism is incorrect.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 04:13:37 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Offline recent convert

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #106 on: August 22, 2017, 06:54:20 PM »
I don't have the time or inclination to continue a point by point argument, especially with someone so inclined to misinterpret and distort. Does anyone else here, on reading the Katherine Kelaidis article, see it as arguing that the entire Orthodox Church supports white nationalism?

Talk about distorting and not arguing in good faith. Who has time for your posts when they stoop to this level?

Wrong again, PO'd:

This article uses the latter, accusing the entire Orthodox Church of supporting Nationalism and White Supremacy,

Back to your hole now.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2017, 01:17:57 PM »
Speaking of non-binary....

"California Governor Jerry Brown signed a landmark legislation Sunday, known as the Gender Recognition Act, which officially recognizes a non-binary gender option on California state-issued IDs, driver’s licenses, and birth certificates.

Senate Bill 179 will make it an easier process for individuals who want to change their gender on legal documents. The law states that a person would no longer require a sworn statement from a physician, approving the gender transition, for the legal document to reflect a different gender, the Los Angeles Times reports. It will also create a new process for people under the age of 18 to apply for a gender change on their birth certificates. The law is set to go into effect in 2019."
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2017, 01:27:32 PM »
Doesn't WA already do this?

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #109 on: October 17, 2017, 01:59:18 PM »
Doesn't WA already do this?
I believe Washington's health department has proposed a non-binary option on birth certificates, but approval is not expected until 2018.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon.
« Reply #110 on: October 17, 2017, 02:17:44 PM »
Ahh, ok, thanks.