Author Topic: Thoughts on Pope Francis?  (Read 2741 times)

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2017, 06:04:20 PM »
Francis like all the post Vatican 2 popes are anti Christ's , anti catholic. Convert to the traditional Catholic faith to save your soul.

Convert to Sedevacantism???
The See has been vacant since Pope Leo I.
what nonsense are you talking about, we haven't had a true pope since 1958
How many true Bishops do you have?
If they haven't made a pope in nearly 60 years and your bishops are dwindling what makes you think there will be one in the future. Do the few bishops that aren't in nursing homes that are sedevacantist believe similarly enough to elect or consecrate a bishop to be pope? Why not follow Michael Bawden, at least they tried.


The seminary flunky whose mom elected him Pope?  That's called trying?
I don't take pope Michael seriously, but I think that is where sedevacantism ends up. Who will elect the next pope, the residents of Rome? They have a few wacky bishops that have questionable lines and a few that are valid but very old. I don't think there is any hope in sedevacantism, even in the less tinfoil hat parts. That is why I didn't go that direction. So I guess what I was trying to say was, if the Church has gone so long without a leader and there is no change in sight, you may as well be following pope Michael.
you seem confused, as if sedevacantism is a religion..it's not...you can say there's no hope in the conciliar church ever turning Catholic...what happens in the future is not for me to say,God will sort it out
So where is the Catholic Church?

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

Further, it should be noted that the Church has defined that heretics are the gates of Hell which Our Lord mentioned in Matthew 16! 
Pope Vigilius, Second Council of Constantinople, 553: “… we bear in mind what was promised about the holy Church and Him who said the gates of Hell will not prevail against it (by these we understand the death-dealing tongues of heretics)…”3 
Pope St. Leo IX, Sept. 2, 1053: “The holy Church built upon a rock, that is Christ, and upon Peter… because by the gates of Hell, that is, by the disputations of heretics which lead the vain to destruction, it would never be overcome.”4 
St. Thomas Aquinas (+1262): “Wisdom may fill the hearts of the faithful, and put to silence the dread folly of heretics, fittingly referred to as the gates of Hell.”5 (Intro. To Catena Aurea.)

Gosh, you guys are even sadder than I imagined.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Quinault

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Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2017, 06:06:52 PM »
I have a great deal of respect for how Pope Francis has chosen to live a more simple life compared to his predecessors.

I have an even greater respect for his public support of breastfeeding.
Why would breastfeeding be an issue?

Most Catholic (and quite a few Orthodox) women I've known are told they must leave the service if they need to breastfeed their child. This is particularly awkward when baby decides during the baptismal service that they need to eat RIGHT FREAKING NOW.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 06:07:29 PM by Quinault »

Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2017, 07:18:47 PM »
Francis like all the post Vatican 2 popes are anti Christ's , anti catholic. Convert to the traditional Catholic faith to save your soul.

Convert to Sedevacantism???

The See has been vacant since Pope Leo I.
what nonsense are you talking about, we haven't had a true pope since 1958

Why are you so confident Pope John XXIII was not a pope?

Why is Pope Pius XII off the hook for you guys? He hired Abp. Bugnini in the first place, mucked up the Holy Week services, suppressed the ancient system of ranking feasts, suppressed most of the octaves, replaced the traditional Mass for the Assumption, tried to replace the Vulgate Psalter, etc.

Why is Pope Pius X off the hook for you guys? He got the modern liturgical ball rolling; he suppressed the ancient Roman order of chanting the psalter, killed the tradition of chanting Psalms 148-150 at Lauds, divorced feast from psalmody by removing festal psalms from most feasts, invented novel rankings for octaves, replaced the traditional suffrages at Lauds and Vespers, etc.
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
   and have become learned in the Scriptures,
and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

(Giwargis Warda, On Compunction of Soul)

Offline servulus

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Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2017, 08:17:41 PM »

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

Further, it should be noted that the Church has defined that heretics are the gates of Hell which Our Lord mentioned in Matthew 16! 
Pope Vigilius, Second Council of Constantinople, 553: “… we bear in mind what was promised about the holy Church and Him who said the gates of Hell will not prevail against it (by these we understand the death-dealing tongues of heretics)…”3 
Pope St. Leo IX, Sept. 2, 1053: “The holy Church built upon a rock, that is Christ, and upon Peter… because by the gates of Hell, that is, by the disputations of heretics which lead the vain to destruction, it would never be overcome.”4 
St. Thomas Aquinas (+1262): “Wisdom may fill the hearts of the faithful, and put to silence the dread folly of heretics, fittingly referred to as the gates of Hell.”5 (Intro. To Catena Aurea.)
When I was a traditional Catholic we clung to that quote by St. Athanasius as well. For me, it seemed that if sedevacantism were true then the Church was an invisible church. How would you know if the gates of hell had prevailed? There is nothing there except the hope that God will somehow intervene and supply a hierarchy.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 08:18:20 PM by servulus »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2017, 08:19:54 PM »
Francis like all the post Vatican 2 popes are anti Christ's , anti catholic. Convert to the traditional Catholic faith to save your soul.

Convert to Sedevacantism???

The See has been vacant since Pope Leo I.
what nonsense are you talking about, we haven't had a true pope since 1958

Why are you so confident Pope John XXIII was not a pope?

Why is Pope Pius XII off the hook for you guys? He hired Abp. Bugnini in the first place, mucked up the Holy Week services, suppressed the ancient system of ranking feasts, suppressed most of the octaves, replaced the traditional Mass for the Assumption, tried to replace the Vulgate Psalter, etc.

Why is Pope Pius X off the hook for you guys? He got the modern liturgical ball rolling; he suppressed the ancient Roman order of chanting the psalter, killed the tradition of chanting Psalms 148-150 at Lauds, divorced feast from psalmody by removing festal psalms from most feasts, invented novel rankings for octaves, replaced the traditional suffrages at Lauds and Vespers, etc.

Probe too deeply in this vein, and the thread might turn into Politics forum material.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2017, 08:39:07 PM »
Francis like all the post Vatican 2 popes are anti Christ's , anti catholic. Convert to the traditional Catholic faith to save your soul.

Convert to Sedevacantism???

The See has been vacant since Pope Leo I.
what nonsense are you talking about, we haven't had a true pope since 1958

Why are you so confident Pope John XXIII was not a pope?

Why is Pope Pius XII off the hook for you guys? He hired Abp. Bugnini in the first place, mucked up the Holy Week services, suppressed the ancient system of ranking feasts, suppressed most of the octaves, replaced the traditional Mass for the Assumption, tried to replace the Vulgate Psalter, etc.

Why is Pope Pius X off the hook for you guys? He got the modern liturgical ball rolling; he suppressed the ancient Roman order of chanting the psalter, killed the tradition of chanting Psalms 148-150 at Lauds, divorced feast from psalmody by removing festal psalms from most feasts, invented novel rankings for octaves, replaced the traditional suffrages at Lauds and Vespers, etc.

I agree.   This is the major problem with the SSPX and the diocesan Latin masses; they are using a liturgy that was already severely damaged.  The changes made by Pope Pius XII are corruptions, unlike those made by Pius X, which could be said to be repair and restoration of Gregorian chant, similiar in some respects to the traditional liturgical approach favored by ROCOR.

I don't think any of these changes by Pius XII were imported back into the WRO liturgy; someone seeking the purest possible Western Rite experience should seek out the Western Rite Orthodox.   

However, we OOs at present aren't in that business.  Although I have heard there was a Western Rite community in Sri Lanka under the IOC, which died off.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2017, 08:51:59 PM »
Francis like all the post Vatican 2 popes are anti Christ's , anti catholic. Convert to the traditional Catholic faith to save your soul.

Convert to Sedevacantism???

The See has been vacant since Pope Leo I.
what nonsense are you talking about, we haven't had a true pope since 1958

Why are you so confident Pope John XXIII was not a pope?

Why is Pope Pius XII off the hook for you guys? He hired Abp. Bugnini in the first place, mucked up the Holy Week services, suppressed the ancient system of ranking feasts, suppressed most of the octaves, replaced the traditional Mass for the Assumption, tried to replace the Vulgate Psalter, etc.

Why is Pope Pius X off the hook for you guys? He got the modern liturgical ball rolling; he suppressed the ancient Roman order of chanting the psalter, killed the tradition of chanting Psalms 148-150 at Lauds, divorced feast from psalmody by removing festal psalms from most feasts, invented novel rankings for octaves, replaced the traditional suffrages at Lauds and Vespers, etc.

I agree.   This is the major problem with the SSPX and the diocesan Latin masses; they are using a liturgy that was already severely damaged.

That's the major problem?

Quote
I don't think any of these changes by Pius XII were imported back into the WRO liturgy; someone seeking the purest possible Western Rite experience should seek out the Western Rite Orthodox.

What's your basis for saying these things?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy