Topic: Retraction of all bad things said about Harry Potter

[Sethrak]

Sexual tension ~ I guess I missed that ~ and Dobby's nose ~ Spider, you saw sexual something with Dobby's nose ```

[Arachne]

Sexual tension ~ I guess I missed that ~ and Dobby's nose ~ Spider, you saw sexual something with Dobby's nose ```

Sorry, I don't read gibberish.

[Sethrak]

Not a problem ```

[Rubricnigel]

There are sexual themes in Harry Potter?

Sexual tension is noticeable to children

What sexual tension are we talking about? Romeo and Juliet? The Bible? It seems strange to have a blanket ban on it.

Why act like it wasnt geared towards adolescents, and how does Hollywood relate to people at that age?
Dont act like there wasnt sexual tension.

I never said it needs to be banned did I?

Adolescents are familiar with sexual tension in their lives, why is it problematic when it's fictional adolescents in books? We're talking about the source material here, not the movies.

By the way, here's an interesting little piece about how the significance of the kissing scenes in the books can shift in the movies.

I forgot what you push here for a minute. Im not surprised to see you arguing sexual situations are ok fo kids.
Whats next?

[Rubricnigel]

Not a problem ```

I understood you sethrak

[RaphaCam]

Kids may notice sexual tension, but they'll read it otherwise because they experience analogous situations.

[Dominika]

By the way, here's an interesting little piece about how the significance of the kissing scenes in the books can shift in the movies.

That's a very good analysis. The kisses in Harry Potter are not sex ephasis, but of characters and circumstances.
Plus, there are no detail descriptions, that you can see in many, many books for adolscents.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

There was a time when reading was viewed as a vapid and morally unproductive activity, similar to how we view television today. Reading for its own sake is not necessarily a virtue. What matters is what we read, why we read, and how we read. Nothing wrong with reading for entertainment and pleasure, but in doing so we must be spiritually cautious. I have ranted against Harry Potter on this forum, probably unnecessarily so. I haven't read the books and don't plan to. Most people here are probably spiritually mature enough and discerning enough to read the books without being negatively influenced by them. My concern is with children who have no sound spiritual and parental guidance to enable them to read these books for fun without being corrupted by the unorthodox ideas contained within. I think we are very naïve if we think that anything and everything that's intended "just for fun" is spiritually and morally innocuous. Just my two cents on it.

Selam

[Rubricnigel]

There was a time when reading was viewed as a vapid and morally unproductive activity, similar to how we view television today. Reading for its own sake is not necessarily a virtue. What matters is what we read, why we read, and how we read. Nothing wrong with reading for entertainment and pleasure, but in doing so we must be spiritually cautious. I have ranted against Harry Potter on this forum, probably unnecessarily so. I haven't read the books and don't plan to. Most people here are probably spiritually mature enough and discerning enough to read the books without being negatively influenced by them. My concern is with children who have no sound spiritual and parental guidance to enable them to read these books for fun without being corrupted by the unorthodox ideas contained within. I think we are very naïve if we think that anything and everything that's intended "just for fun" is spiritually and morally innocuous. Just my two cents on it.

Selam

I agree.
Often we forget how impressionable children are, violent video games, sexual situations, adult themes, demonic or outright satanic elements are everywhere.

[biro]

We view television as vapid and unproductive?

Ms. Rowling is an Anglican. My grandmother, may she rest in peace, said the books' only message was, use your imagination.

Spells don't exist. The books couldn't hurt a kid if they wanted to.

As the old saying goes, no good girl was ever ruined by a book.

[Volnutt]

We view television as vapid and unproductive?

Ms. Rowling is an Anglican. My grandmother, may she rest in peace, said the books' only message was, use your imagination.

Spells don't exist. The books couldn't hurt a kid if they wanted to.

As the old saying goes, no good girl was ever ruined by a book.

I think they're using "gateway drug" logic. That the fake spells in Harry Potter will lead kids to investigate actual Wicca.

And tbf it's not impossible for that to happen, but I just don't know why they don't expand the argument to all kinds of classical things that we give a pass to for kids (Shakespeare, for example). Heck, there was a time when school children read Homer and Plato but people don't seem to have expected that to lead to experimenting with homosexuality and Zeus-worship.

[Mor Ephrem]

Spells don't exist.

I realize you are probably eager to defend something you enjoy, but I wish you wouldn’t go overboard as you often tend to do.

Spells, and all manner of other diabolical things, exist and the demons are only too happy to be invited thereby to wreak havoc on people’s lives.

[Rubricnigel]

Spells don't exist.

I realize you are probably eager to defend something you enjoy, but I wish you wouldn’t go overboard as you often tend to do.

Spells, and all manner of other diabolical things, exist and the demons are only too happy to be invited thereby to wreak havoc on people’s lives.

Is one believes in God, one most believe in the Devil as well.

Most people refuse  to acknowledge that evil reigns

[Arachne]

The pagan community in general doesn't credit Harry Potter for swelling their ranks. Some have read it, some haven't. Some enjoyed it, some didn't. A lot find its themes too Christian, and the reactions from churches and parents rather amusing.

Ultimately, what the series influenced mostly was kids' reading habits, by getting tweens into 800-page books.

[Justin Kolodziej]

Today Harry Potter, tomorrow War and Peace 

[Eamonomae]

The pagan community in general doesn't credit Harry Potter for swelling their ranks. Some have read it, some haven't. Some enjoyed it, some didn't. A lot find its themes too Christian, and the reactions from churches and parents rather amusing.

Proof? How would you know?

I mean, having studied the Caucasus Emitrate, it was clear from looking at archives of their propaganda site that they were boasting of the fact that the Quran inspired young Chechens to take up Jihad. It doesn't mean that the majority of those who read the Quran will become Islamic Jihadists, but it's a massive claim to say that the Caucasus Emirate doesn't boast of using the Quran to draw up militant fighters.

[Volnutt]

The pagan community in general doesn't credit Harry Potter for swelling their ranks. Some have read it, some haven't. Some enjoyed it, some didn't. A lot find its themes too Christian, and the reactions from churches and parents rather amusing.

Proof? How would you know?

I mean, having studied the Caucasus Emitrate, it was clear from looking at archives of their propaganda site that they were boasting of the fact that the Quran inspired young Chechens to take up Jihad. It doesn't mean that the majority of those who read the Quran will become Islamic Jihadists, but it's a massive claim to say that the Caucasus Emirate doesn't boast of using the Quran to draw up militant fighters.

That's... a strange comparison to draw for a number of reasons. I'm not sure the logic holds.

Anyway, Arachne knows a lot of Neopagans and Wiccans. I trust her reasonably well to know something about what they think.

[Eamonomae]

That's... a strange comparison to draw for a number of reasons. I'm not sure the logic holds.

Could you elaborate?

Anyway, Arachne knows a lot of Neopagans and Wiccans. I trust her reasonably well to know something about what they think.

If she is knowledgeable, then she can give evidence.

[Arachne]

That's... a strange comparison to draw for a number of reasons. I'm not sure the logic holds.

Could you elaborate?

Anyway, Arachne knows a lot of Neopagans and Wiccans. I trust her reasonably well to know something about what they think.

If she is knowledgeable, then she can give evidence.

I already have: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,52597.msg972669.html#msg972669

Here's also something more recent: https://www.llewellyn.com/journal/article/1345

But if you expect me to somehow display two decades' worth of interactions with pagans to your satisfaction, lol, not happening. Don't take my word for anything, go do your own research. Go out and find yourself a single pagan who became so because of Harry Potter.

[Eamonomae]

Thank you. I appreciate that you responded.

[Volnutt]

That's... a strange comparison to draw for a number of reasons. I'm not sure the logic holds.

Could you elaborate?

Well, like you said the Caucasus Emirate is a single group with a searchable archive. It's a pretty easy claim to confirm or not. Whereas with pagans it would be proving a negative to say that nobody anywhere ever became pagan because of Harry Potter. All you can do is say whether it's likely or not given general trends, and it doesn't seem like it.

Plus, joining a single specific terrorist organization seems like a more binary action than looking into paganism, but I could be wrong.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

The Rapture doesn't exist, so I guess one could argue that therefore reading the "Left Behind" series is spiritually innocuous. However, I would argue that those books are indeed spiritually detrimental to many who read them.

Selam

[Tannhouser]

I always found it odd where the Narnia series was held so highly, especially as an allegory to the Christian life. Even when we read non-believers entering Narnia heaven.

Yet HP series is clearly a work of fiction, but deemed rotten to read.

I get it. Young minds are malleable, and we should be watchful for any foothold.

[Agabus]

Go out and find yourself a single pagan who became so because of Harry Potter.

The pagans I've known have laughed at the suggestion, including one who is being baptized into Thelema. Nothing in HP resembles the ritual in Crowley's magick, in Wicca, in Norse paganism or anything from the East.

[Arachne]

Go out and find yourself a single pagan who became so because of Harry Potter.

The pagans I've known have laughed at the suggestion, including one who is being baptized into Thelema. Nothing in HP resembles the ritual in Crowley's magick, in Wicca, in Norse paganism or anything from the East.

That's what my own pagan acquaintances have said as well, for years, but who's listening? Some of them even grumble that the underlying message is too Christian for their liking (not that they bar their kids from reading it, regardless).

[Ainnir]

Go out and find yourself a single pagan who became so because of Harry Potter.

The pagans I've known have laughed at the suggestion, including one who is being baptized into Thelema. Nothing in HP resembles the ritual in Crowley's magick, in Wicca, in Norse paganism or anything from the East.

That's what my own pagan acquaintances have said as well, for years, but who's listening? Some of them even grumble that the underlying message is too Christian for their liking (not that they bar their kids from reading it, regardless).

Poor Harry can’t get a break.

[Katechon]

Harry Potter is garbage literature used to initiate people into the occult.
With my generation growing up with this and for example Yu-Gi-Oh (you know, the card game back in the day where you conjure demonic entities and in whose TV adaption people got banned into hell by losing a match etc) it rather succeeded in this.

[hecma925]

Harry Potter is garbage literature used to initiate people into the occult.
With my generation growing up with this and for example Yu-Gi-Oh (you know, the card game back in the day where you conjure demonic entities and in whose TV adaption people got banned into hell by losing a match etc) it rather succeeded in this.

How many people do you know that got into occult practices by the influence of Harry Potter and Yugioh?

[Katechon]

Harry Potter is garbage literature used to initiate people into the occult.
With my generation growing up with this and for example Yu-Gi-Oh (you know, the card game back in the day where you conjure demonic entities and in whose TV adaption people got banned into hell by losing a match etc) it rather succeeded in this.

How many people do you know that got into occult practices by the influence of Harry Potter and Yugioh?

Well, that is only the next step. But do you know Wicca? And do you know the gnostic-satanic Goa techno culture spreading throughout Europe?
These are further initiatory experiences.

[Arachne]

But do you know Wicca?

Yes. So?

And do you know the gnostic-satanic Goa techno culture spreading throughout Europe?

No. Please enlighten us.

[Sethrak]

<>

[hecma925]

But do you know Wicca?

Yes. So?

And do you know the gnostic-satanic Goa techno culture spreading throughout Europe?

No. Please enlighten us.

+1

[SolEX01]

Harry Potter is garbage literature used to initiate people into the occult.
With my generation growing up with this and for example Yu-Gi-Oh (you know, the card game back in the day where you conjure demonic entities and in whose TV adaption people got banned into hell by losing a match etc) it rather succeeded in this.

I used to think the same way until I sat down and read the first book.  After reading all 7 books, I concluded that Harry Potter is more James Bond and King Arthur than the occult.  It's not a sin to have an imagination, as long as it isn't lust.

[Sethrak]

https://fcm.org/should-a-christian-do-magic/

view of magic and the Bible ```

[hecma925]

https://fcm.org/should-a-christian-do-magic/

view of magic and the Bible ```

I don't think reading Harry Potter is "doing magic" in any sense of the word.  I haven't read the books because it's not a genre that interests me, but I have no spiritual qualms reading fiction.

[Sethrak]

We've read them all ```

[hecma925]

We've read them all ```

Are you a family of ~~~Armenian~~~ witches now?

[Eamonomae]

We've read them all ```

Are you a family of ~~~Armenian~~~ witches now?

I personally am made of wood and weigh as much as a duck. Does that make me a witch?

[Arachne]

We've read them all ```

Are you a family of ~~~Armenian~~~ witches now?

I personally am made of wood and weigh as much as a duck. Does that make me a witch?

It definitely makes you good kindling.

[Sethrak]

Hi hecma, no but I've made wands ~ nice ones, I have a couple under the laptop holding it above the table for better air flow ~ the Harry Potter movies were fun, enjoyed them ~ I watched the first one the other night ~ the whole thing is a battle between good and evil ~ with a little junk thrown in ~ the girl who wrote it wove much into the plot ~ she did well ```

Much can be done with the Lord that would be considered: "Witchcraft" by some ~ most things thought wrong and sinful if done with and by God ~ including speaking to those who have died ~ Saints or your parents when praying ```

[CooperDog]

Hi hecma, no but I've made wands ~ nice ones, I have a couple under the laptop holding it above the table for better air flow ~ the Harry Potter movies were fun, enjoyed them ~ I watched the first one the other night ~ the whole thing is a battle between good and evil ~ with a little junk thrown in ~ the girl who wrote it wove much into the plot ~ she did well ```

Much can be done with the Lord that would be considered: "Witchcraft" by some ~ most things thought wrong and sinful if done with and by God ~ including speaking to those who have died ~ Saints or your parents when praying ```

Ive seen analysis where they feew parallels between Potter and Jesus.

[Alpha60]

Spells don't exist.

I realize you are probably eager to defend something you enjoy, but I wish you wouldn’t go overboard as you often tend to do.

Spells, and all manner of other diabolical things, exist and the demons are only too happy to be invited thereby to wreak havoc on people’s lives.

Indeed so.  This is my main criticism of Harry Potter on a moral level compared to other fantasy, for example the works of CS Lewis, is that in general I dislike fantasy in which a witch, wizard or warlock who casts spells, with a wand or otherwise, is depicted in a positive light.  This is particularly the case with juvenile novels.  They invite dangerous youthful explorations of the occult; the child who gets a rush from Harry Potter and desires the ability to have magical powers (in the sense of casting spells, vs. illusioneering, which in contrast I think is a healthy performing art talent for children to engage in), is just a Google search away from texts describing dangerous occult practices.

Nor is JK Rowlings a model of Christian piety.  There are other much better works of fantasy much more suitable for Christian youth.  Harry Potter might be suitable for adults and older teenagers with a correct moral disposition, but even then, there is better literary material, and there are better films.  For example, all of the great animated features produced by Walt Disney before his premature repose, and a few of those produced by his successors, particularly during the early years of the Eisner era.

In the past I have joked about having a domestic church with full services from the horologion, assigning the children to the different liturgical functions; obviously I would not actually do that (except perhaps on one occasion if there was enthusiasm among boys for serving in the altar, that they might safely learn how to do things), but I am entirely serious when I say I would caution against the premature reading of Harry Potter and encourage the reading of other, older, better entertainment.

When it comes to children, I think that they should be baptised and raised in the Orthodox faith, encouraged to pursue their natural interests, rewarded for academic, intellectual, athletic and creative accomplishments proportionate to their properly assesed individual ability, not be subjected to corporal punishment, not be burdened with homework but instead complete at school their school work, not be pent up but rather welcomed and encouraged to play outdoors on beautiful days in the spring and summer, well nourished, properly and safely exercised, ensured interaction with peers and playmates, innoculated against diseases, taught decent manners, given the fullest parental love without passive aggression or emotional manipulation, not be granted a tablet device prematurely, nor be given other things potentially harmful, for example, Harry Potter books or certain forms of countercultural music.

[Asteriktos]

Why not rail against the talking animals or mythical creatures in C.S. Lewis and Disney productions, which could lead innocent kids to read about pagan and other mythologies and thereby become ensnared in diabolical beliefs? And for that matter I think it putting it kindly to say that the storytelling of the Chronicles of Narnia is lackluster and uneven (I just re-trudged through them this summer)  Could it be that C.S. Lewis and Walt Disney just happen to be people whose work you like? Don't we all recommend things in that way?

[Arachne]

Why not rail against the talking animals or mythical creatures in C.S. Lewis and Disney productions, which could lead innocent kids to read about pagan and other mythologies and thereby become ensnared in diabolical beliefs? And for that matter I think it putting it kindly to say that the storytelling of the Chronicles of Narnia is lackluster and uneven (I just re-trudged through them this summer)  Could it be that C.S. Lewis and Walt Disney just happen to be people whose work you like? Don't we all recommend things in that way?

Going through actual folk tales, from any culture, would leave the Disney fan crew traumatised.

[Alpha60]

Why not rail against the talking animals or mythical creatures in C.S. Lewis and Disney productions, which could lead innocent kids to read about pagan and other mythologies and thereby become ensnared in diabolical beliefs? And for that matter I think it putting it kindly to say that the storytelling of the Chronicles of Narnia is lackluster and uneven (I just re-trudged through them this summer)  Could it be that C.S. Lewis and Walt Disney just happen to be people whose work you like? Don't we all recommend things in that way?

No, because only a few of the Disney animated films I enjoy, and as far as CS Lewis is concerned, while I like his Space Trilogy, particularly Perelandra and the dystopian conclusion That Hideous Strength, with its vivid and charming description of the beautiful, tiny Bracton University located in what it emerges is the actual Heart of England, an adjacent walled-off wood, in the town of Edgestowe, which alas gets vaporized, I have always since my youth found the Chronicles of Narnia to be remarkably dull.  Only the very first few pages dealing with the wardrobe and the mysterious lamppost were interesting; once the children reach the other side, we find ourselves in Oz sans a tornado.  In fact, less than Oz, since Emerald City is my kind of town (aside from the poisonous sleep-inducing poppy fields; if I were appointed Lord Mayor I would seek Western subsidies in return for burning them, and use the money to replace the multicolored horse-drawn streetcars with a modern rapid transit system, and develop suburbs in the former poppy fields).

And in general, the alternative concern you raise is also negated by Arachne, in that the Disney films are quite a bit brightened up compared to the fairy tales they are based on.  The Brothers Grimm, the various Nordic sagas, the Thousand and One Nights, and so on, are both substantially frightening and sufficiently long, in some cases dramatically so, as to keep away younger and more naive children.  And in general wizards and warlocks and witches are depicted as evil or fraudulent, in L. Frank Baum, for example; the classic film adaptation of the Wizard of Oz manages to depict them as both, in that you have diabolical, yet incompetent, witches, and a fraudulent wizard who is actually an illusionist using smoke and mirrors and a giant projection system.