Author Topic: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon  (Read 1200 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jackson02

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 203
  • Lord have mercy on me a sinner
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOC-A
Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« on: May 24, 2017, 05:02:46 PM »
I'm new to Oriental Orthodoxy and would like to know, why the OO reject the council of Chalcedon?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 05:05:16 PM by Jackson02 »
IC XC
NI KA

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • Take comfort in the warmth of the Jacuzzi of Oriental Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Protospatharios
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,102
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: East
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 05:09:32 PM »
Oh boy...
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,999
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 06:44:57 PM »
We seriously need a FAQ section for OOs.

Hmmmmmm...trying to see how to answer this one without stepping on toes...

Our Church took a particular theological principle that we felt was violated by this council.  We still stand by this principle today, but we understand that a whole lot of the problems at that time, according to discussions throughout the centuries and more recently in the 1960s, were more political and semantics than they were dogmatic.  Nevertheless, we stressed the principle of oneness in Christ, but to say "one nature" does not mean the integrity of either the humanity or the divinity is lost.  "One nature" was the preferred theological language of St. Cyril of Alexandria, and it was this emphasis that also stressed the importance of our oneness and deification in Christ.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Brigidsboy

  • Section Moderator
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 467
  • Faith: Armenian Apostolic
  • Jurisdiction: Holy See of Cilicia
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 07:37:35 PM »
+100
"I don't think I've ever eaten anything Armenian I didn't like.  I even drink my non-Armenian coffee out of a St Nersess Seminary coffee mug because it is better that way." --Mor Ephrem

Offline Ainnir

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,203
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 09:30:41 PM »
We seriously need a FAQ section for OOs.

Yes, that would be useful.  :)  Likely a lot of work, though.
"Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that."  ~me

Taking a hiatus.  Pray for me, a sinner.

Offline mcarmichael

  • Novice
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,610
  • No cocaine.
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2017, 10:09:37 PM »

Hmmmmmm...trying to see how to answer this one without stepping on toes...


You've already said too much. Lol
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline mcarmichael

  • Novice
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,610
  • No cocaine.
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2017, 10:12:19 PM »
They do though, kinda.
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline Tonedawg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 225
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2017, 01:29:53 AM »
What Mina said!
But at the time, we understood it to be Nestorianizing! But most of these issues we fixed in the past, we should focus on the present now, both families have a lot in common and agreed on a lot of the same terminology that was so divisive in the past.   
“How needful the human being is of service of the spirit, in an age where materialism, atheism, apostasy and deviant intellectual trends prevail. How needful people are to see Christ in our lives and to smell His sweet fragrance in us." St. Kyrillos (Cyril) VI

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,470
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2017, 01:42:55 PM »
What Mina said!
But at the time, we understood it to be Nestorianizing! But most of these issues we fixed in the past, we should focus on the present now, both families have a lot in common and agreed on a lot of the same terminology that was so divisive in the past.
Tonedawg,
One of my hopes is for reconciliation between EOs and OOs, so I like alot of what you are saying. And I agree that our communities have a lot in common. So I would like to talk more with you about what you wrote.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 01:43:41 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,127
  • Trolling Babylon 24/7, without apology!
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
  • Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2017, 01:59:52 PM »
St. Cyril's Christological definition is accepted by EO's and OO's. That's good enough for me.


Selam
"Whether it’s the guillotine, the hangman’s noose, or reciprocal endeavors of militaristic horror, radical evil will never be recompensed with radical punishment. The only answer, the only remedy, and the only truly effective response to radical evil is radical love."
+ Gebre Menfes Kidus +
http://bookstore.authorhouse.com/Products/SKU-000984270/Rebel-Song.aspx

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,553
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2017, 02:20:38 PM »
I'm new to Oriental Orthodoxy and would like to know, why the OO reject the council of Chalcedon?

1. The Tome of Leo
2. The exoneration of Ibas the heresiarch
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline MrRightReverend2u

  • Corporation Sole, Georgia Statute of 1758
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • now it is permitted to overstand the mysteries
    • Universal Orthodox
  • Faith: Apostolic Succession Archbisho
  • Jurisdiction: Georgia & Jamaica
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 09:19:43 PM »
The Oriental Orthodox adopted the confounded Nicene Creed first published by the Council of Calcedon AD 451 by osmosis from the enemy (tares). Any Oriental Orthodox who denies this confounded Creed is excommunicated. Anyone who denies this confounded Creed adopted by the Council of Calcedon AD 451 is NOT considered to be Orthodox, Catholic or Anglican. All of the fallen Church's Bishops and Priests demand adherence to this confounded Creed that we suffer today.  The Sacrament of Baptism is overthrown too by the antianointed priesthood. In Revelation, And she, being with child, cried, travailing in birth and in pain to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered to devour her child as soon as it was born. xii. 2-4.
Mr. Right Reverend Gregory Karl Davis

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • Take comfort in the warmth of the Jacuzzi of Oriental Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Protospatharios
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,102
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: East
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 09:30:36 PM »
The Oriental Orthodox adopted the confounded Nicene Creed first published by the Council of Calcedon AD 451 by osmosis from the enemy (tares). Any Oriental Orthodox who denies this confounded Creed is excommunicated. Anyone who denies this confounded Creed adopted by the Council of Calcedon AD 451 is NOT considered to be Orthodox, Catholic or Anglican. All of the fallen Church's Bishops and Priests demand adherence to this confounded Creed that we suffer today.  The Sacrament of Baptism is overthrown too by the antianointed priesthood. In Revelation, And she, being with child, cried, travailing in birth and in pain to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered to devour her child as soon as it was born. xii. 2-4.

Oh, dear...
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,999
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 09:30:57 PM »
What in the name of 451 am I reading?
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,553
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 09:41:53 PM »
What in the name of 451 am I reading?

Indeed.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 36,119
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2017, 09:51:33 PM »
What in the name of 451 am I reading?

He hath smoketh too much pot.

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,470
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2017, 10:16:57 PM »

Mr. Right Reverend Gregory Karl Davis

Welcome to the forum. Can I please ask, who are the people standing in the background? Church members? Hip Hop dancers?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 10:19:03 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • Take comfort in the warmth of the Jacuzzi of Oriental Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Protospatharios
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,102
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: East
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2017, 10:25:32 PM »

Mr. Right Reverend Gregory Karl Davis

Welcome to the forum. Can I please ask, who are the people standing in the background? Church members? Hip Hop dancers?

"OMG how is this even my life right now?"
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,553
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2017, 10:29:11 PM »
Indeed, brother.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 36,119
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2017, 10:32:58 PM »

Mr. Right Reverend Gregory Karl Davis

Welcome to the forum. Can I please ask, who are the people standing in the background? Church members? Hip Hop dancers?

See this image on his facebook...

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,553
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2017, 10:38:31 PM »
Ah, a rally in support of recreational marijuana use.  Lovely, is it not?

Excuse me while I go to the lavatory to lose breakfast, lunch and dinner in one high-powered projectile vomit; I feel like Linda Blair crossed with an RPG launcher about now.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 10:42:57 PM by Alpha60 »
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,999
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2017, 10:58:57 PM »

Mr. Right Reverend Gregory Karl Davis

Welcome to the forum. Can I please ask, who are the people standing in the background? Church members? Hip Hop dancers?

See this image on his facebook...

Yo! You that balm of Gilead...that’s some gooooood ... stuff
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Father Peter

  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,075
    • Coptic Orthodox Church - Patriarchal Diocese
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Diocese
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2017, 08:05:04 AM »
My ministry and blog - http://www.stgeorgeministry.com

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,878
  • Excelsior
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2017, 11:38:55 AM »
The Oriental Orthodox adopted the confounded Nicene Creed first published by the Council of Calcedon AD 451 by osmosis from the enemy (tares). Any Oriental Orthodox who denies this confounded Creed is excommunicated. Anyone who denies this confounded Creed adopted by the Council of Calcedon AD 451 is NOT considered to be Orthodox, Catholic or Anglican. All of the fallen Church's Bishops and Priests demand adherence to this confounded Creed that we suffer today.  The Sacrament of Baptism is overthrown too by the antianointed priesthood. In Revelation, And she, being with child, cried, travailing in birth and in pain to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered to devour her child as soon as it was born. xii. 2-4.


...Anglican?
My only weakness is, well, never mind

Offline Father Peter

  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,075
    • Coptic Orthodox Church - Patriarchal Diocese
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Diocese
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2017, 12:18:51 PM »
Rosicrucian, self ordained "bishop".
My ministry and blog - http://www.stgeorgeministry.com

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,470
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2017, 01:33:35 PM »
Rosicrucian, self ordained "bishop".
Rosicrucianism is a school of occultism and esotericism.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 01:34:12 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Father Peter

  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,075
    • Coptic Orthodox Church - Patriarchal Diocese
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Diocese
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2017, 01:52:04 PM »
Of course.
My ministry and blog - http://www.stgeorgeministry.com

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,332
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2017, 01:54:31 PM »
I somehow doubt even the Rosicrucians would lay claim to this chap. And they try to lay claim to everybody. If one is to believe their historical narrative, every remotely interesting person in history was a Rosicrucian.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 01:54:58 PM by Iconodule »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,553
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2017, 02:26:21 PM »
I somehow doubt even the Rosicrucians would lay claim to this chap. And they try to lay claim to everybody. If one is to believe their historical narrative, every remotely interesting person in history was a Rosicrucian.

Indeed, its almost as implausible as the historical narrative of Freemasonry, that they somehow preserved both the ancient ritual of the guilds of professional stonemasons who built the great cathedrals and the Temple of Solomon, and hid and sheltered a substantial number of Knights Templar in their lodgee when the latter order was somewhat violently suppressed.  The huge disparity between Freemasonry and the dress, appearance and ritual of its members, and the equally elaborate attire of the Worshipful Company of Masons from the City of London, who, other than giving out awards for excellence in craftsmanship and their participation in the Lord Mayors Show and othernpretentious ceremonies of the City, look nothing like Freemasonry, seems to discredit that idea.

There was some relationship between the Rosicrucians and Freemasons, involving the Scottish Rite and an occult fascination with alchemy, but today they are unrelated; the former still retains a modicum of dignity, whereas the latter is numbered among the Theosophists and other associations of spiritist cranks.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 02:26:34 PM by Alpha60 »
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,332
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2017, 02:30:19 PM »
There are lots of different Rosicrucian organizations now, so it's hard to generalize too much about them. Some of them still require Masonic affiliation. This link might whet your appetite for useless knowledge: http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rosi_grp.html
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Father Peter

  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,075
    • Coptic Orthodox Church - Patriarchal Diocese
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Diocese
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2017, 04:19:28 PM »
I want nothing to do with anyone associated with Theosophy, the Occult, Roscrucianism, Masonry and all other forms of Gnosticism.
My ministry and blog - http://www.stgeorgeministry.com

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,470
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2017, 04:53:21 PM »
I want nothing to do with anyone associated with Theosophy, the Occult, Roscrucianism, Masonry and all other forms of Gnosticism.
IMO, the ones in bold are especially oriented around medieval magic, like the demonology and legends that grew up around King Solomon. Hence the pentagram's use in Masonry. Alot of Freemasons are not aware of that.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 04:54:34 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,332
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2017, 04:59:28 PM »
It seems to me highly unlikely that Freemasonry was originally intended to be an occult/ hermetic fraternity. Its purposes were pretty mundane. At some point some members developed rather romantic ideas and wanted to recast the organization not only as a hermetic fraternity but as something going back to ancient times.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,470
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2017, 05:06:13 PM »
It seems to me highly unlikely that Freemasonry was originally intended to be an occult/ hermetic fraternity. Its purposes were pretty mundane. At some point some members developed rather romantic ideas and wanted to recast the organization not only as a hermetic fraternity but as something going back to ancient times.
I think there is truth in what you are saying.

The connection to the actual Temple of Solomon and the pyramid builders sounds too far fetched to me.

But I can imagine some heritage handed down from Rosslyn chapel in Scotland or from some castle builders or Templar remnants across the 14th to 18th centuries.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,332
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2017, 06:18:46 PM »
You could imagine that, but I would hope you're not gullible enough to actually believe it.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,470
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2017, 08:03:08 PM »
Quote
The connection to the actual Temple of Solomon and the pyramid builders sounds too far fetched to me.

But I can imagine some heritage handed down from Rosslyn chapel in Scotland or from some castle builders or Templar remnants across the 14th to 18th centuries.

You could imagine that, but I would hope you're not gullible enough to actually believe it.

I'll move it to another thread:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,51405.msg1486147.html#msg1486147
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,553
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2017, 04:37:40 PM »
There are lots of different Rosicrucian organizations now, so it's hard to generalize too much about them. Some of them still require Masonic affiliation. This link might whet your appetite for useless knowledge: http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rosi_grp.html

Yummy.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,553
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2017, 04:38:06 PM »
It seems to me highly unlikely that Freemasonry was originally intended to be an occult/ hermetic fraternity. Its purposes were pretty mundane. At some point some members developed rather romantic ideas and wanted to recast the organization not only as a hermetic fraternity but as something going back to ancient times.

I agree.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,553
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Why don't the OO accept Chalcedon
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2017, 04:41:28 PM »
I want nothing to do with anyone associated with Theosophy, the Occult, Roscrucianism, Masonry and all other forms of Gnosticism.

Indeed; its all very dangerous.  Metropolitan Kallistos Ware got as close as one can safely get in the book The Orthodox Way when he included some quotations of Gnostic texts among a series of non-Orthodox quotations he would mix with Orthodox quotations in each chapter to prove the Orthodox point; other non-Orthodox quotes included Soren Kierkegaard, St. John of the Cross (Roman Catholic), and I think, GK Chesterton and Maimonides.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.