Author Topic: Deaconesses in OO  (Read 1047 times)

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Offline Jackson02

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Deaconesses in OO
« on: May 24, 2017, 04:41:02 PM »
I heard that HH Pope Tawadros II appointed a deaconess, is this true and are deaconesses allowed in OO?
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 04:43:35 PM »
There are deaconesses, yes.  There aren't so many, and what they are and what they do varies depending on the particular OO Church in question, but they certainly exist. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 07:03:33 PM »
At present, female deacons in the Coptic Church have very little liturgical function.  They're usually consecrated servants for social services.  In the convents, they might have a larger liturgical role.

In the Armenian Church, if I'm not mistaken, they might have a liturgical role in a regular parish, if there are any.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 07:04:35 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline Aram

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 10:27:05 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 10:41:56 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.
That's sad... why?
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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2017, 03:20:04 PM »
Found this accidentaly:



A doll presenting Armenian deaconess
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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2017, 03:21:38 PM »
Found this accidentaly:



A doll presenting Armenian deaconess

Oh wow you can actually purchase it! I know what my daughters are getting for Christmas. ;)
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2017, 05:18:28 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.

I would advise the poster to search on thos fprum for all the other discussions on this topic.

This is a video of an Armenian Orthodox deaconess chanting the Gospel at Ortakoy Holy Mother of God Armenian Church, Istanbul, May 2016
https://www.facebook.com/ortakoymeryemanakilisesi/videos/vb.814716448597803/1033845960018183/?type=2&theater


Also one of the articles previoulsy posted mentioned that an Armenian deaconess travelled to the USA a few years ago.

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2017, 06:53:58 PM »
Youssef, I would note that having women in the choir is not the same as having deaconesses.  Pope Shenouda did apparenrly consecrate several, and more have been consecrated, for social work in Egypt, some of whom I think are connected with monasteries and others of whom are involved in the operation of the large number of Coptic orphanages (required due to the evil Islamic law, present in the Egyptian civil code, that forbids adoption; as a result the Coptic church has to operate orphanages instead of the foster parenting and adoption that has become the norm in the US, Europe and elsewhere, due to Islamic cruelty).

The Coptic Church is definitely in the minority among Orthodox churches in that the choir of psaltis and readers lacks women.   This is not an element of the Oriental Orthodox faith but rather an aspect of Coptic Orthodox liturgical tradition, one which I am comfortable with and see no reason to change (just as I see no reason to remove the female choirs from Syriac and Armenian churches).  It's just an aspect of the Coptic liturgical rite.   At a Coptic convent however, one would likely see the Psaltis and Readers offices being held by the women.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2017, 10:04:23 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.

I would advise the poster to search on thos fprum for all the other discussions on this topic.

This is a video of an Armenian Orthodox deaconess chanting the Gospel at Ortakoy Holy Mother of God Armenian Church, Istanbul, May 2016
https://www.facebook.com/ortakoymeryemanakilisesi/videos/vb.814716448597803/1033845960018183/?type=2&theater


Also one of the articles previoulsy posted mentioned that an Armenian deaconess travelled to the USA a few years ago.

The link isn't working.  Could you post another?  And more info about the deaconess' journey to the US please?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Aram

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2017, 11:47:06 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.

I would advise the poster to search on thos fprum for all the other discussions on this topic.

This is a video of an Armenian Orthodox deaconess chanting the Gospel at Ortakoy Holy Mother of God Armenian Church, Istanbul, May 2016
https://www.facebook.com/ortakoymeryemanakilisesi/videos/vb.814716448597803/1033845960018183/?type=2&theater


Also one of the articles previoulsy posted mentioned that an Armenian deaconess travelled to the USA a few years ago.
I'm Armenian. I know they exist. But as I said, they're exceedingly rare, and what you've posted doesn't change or contradict anything I wrote. It's not like there are deaconesses being ordained on a regular basis, for normal parish life--they're rare, and limited to very particular communities and situations. Cool video, though.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2017, 04:34:06 AM »
Are deaconesses in the Orthodox Churches ordained in one of the major orders or, despite the name, into a minor order, like reader or porter?
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2017, 04:53:28 AM »
Are deaconesses in the Orthodox Churches ordained in one of the major orders or, despite the name, into a minor order, like reader or porter?

In the Eastern Orthodox Church (not the OO) the ordination of a deaconess is a major order. 
English translation of Ordination Service for Deaconess in Eastern Orthodox Church

https://web.archive.org/web/20160311134142/http://www.anastasis.org.uk/woman_deacon.htm

Ordination Service for Deaconess in Georgian Orthodox Church
https://catholicapedia.net/Documents/Revue-de-l.Orient-chretien/19-1914_revue-de-l.orient-ch_paris.pdf

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2017, 04:09:58 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.

I would advise the poster to search on thos fprum for all the other discussions on this topic.

This is a video of an Armenian Orthodox deaconess chanting the Gospel at Ortakoy Holy Mother of God Armenian Church, Istanbul, May 2016
https://www.facebook.com/ortakoymeryemanakilisesi/videos/vb.814716448597803/1033845960018183/?type=2&theater


Also one of the articles previoulsy posted mentioned that an Armenian deaconess travelled to the USA a few years ago.

The link isn't working.  Could you post another?  And more info about the deaconess' journey to the US please?

IreneOlinyk could you please post another link to this video and the accompanying article?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 04:10:28 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2017, 04:40:57 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.

I would advise the poster to search on thos fprum for all the other discussions on this topic.

This is a video of an Armenian Orthodox deaconess chanting the Gospel at Ortakoy Holy Mother of God Armenian Church, Istanbul, May 2016
https://www.facebook.com/ortakoymeryemanakilisesi/videos/vb.814716448597803/1033845960018183/?type=2&theater


Also one of the articles previoulsy posted mentioned that an Armenian deaconess travelled to the USA a few years ago.

The link isn't working.  Could you post another?  And more info about the deaconess' journey to the US please?

IreneOlinyk could you please post another link to this video and the accompanying article?

The link worked for me Antonious.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2017, 05:48:57 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.

I would advise the poster to search on thos fprum for all the other discussions on this topic.

This is a video of an Armenian Orthodox deaconess chanting the Gospel at Ortakoy Holy Mother of God Armenian Church, Istanbul, May 2016
https://www.facebook.com/ortakoymeryemanakilisesi/videos/vb.814716448597803/1033845960018183/?type=2&theater


Also one of the articles previoulsy posted mentioned that an Armenian deaconess travelled to the USA a few years ago.

The link isn't working.  Could you post another?  And more info about the deaconess' journey to the US please?

IreneOlinyk could you please post another link to this video and the accompanying article?

The link worked for me Antonious.

For me it says: "Sorry, this content isn't available right now...The link you followed may have expired, or the page may only be visible to an audience you're not in."
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 06:35:08 PM »
Huh. It works for me too. "Archdeaconess Hripsime" -- fantastic!
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2017, 07:03:37 PM »
What is the name of the Facebook page so I can search for it?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2017, 07:06:33 PM »
Long explanation of the Armenian deaconess, a relatively rare and exceptional office that is virtually non-existent today.

http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/

In other words, the Armenian Church is not in the general practice of ordaining deaconesses, particularly since female monasticism is also virtually non-existent today.

I would advise the poster to search on thos fprum for all the other discussions on this topic.

This is a video of an Armenian Orthodox deaconess chanting the Gospel at Ortakoy Holy Mother of God Armenian Church, Istanbul, May 2016
https://www.facebook.com/ortakoymeryemanakilisesi/videos/vb.814716448597803/1033845960018183/?type=2&theater


Also one of the articles previoulsy posted mentioned that an Armenian deaconess travelled to the USA a few years ago.

The link isn't working.  Could you post another?  And more info about the deaconess' journey to the US please?

IreneOlinyk could you please post another link to this video and the accompanying article?

The link worked for me Antonious.

For me it says: "Sorry, this content isn't available right now...The link you followed may have expired, or the page may only be visible to an audience you're not in."

I am guessing it was unavailable and your browser may be working off of the cache file. I confirmed that it also works in firefox private browsing which may work if you want to keep your cache.

I suggest trying this page: https://www.facebook.com/pg/ortakoymeryemanakilisesi/videos/?ref=page_internal
and clicking on the May 31 2016 video. I cannot imagine this not getting around the problem.
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2017, 07:20:19 PM »
ps - I do not have a facebook account, so usually I cannot view the content of a facebook page.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2017, 07:48:19 PM »
Thank you, Opus!  It worked.  :)
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2017, 07:51:54 PM »
Huh. It works for me too. "Archdeaconess Hripsime" -- fantastic!

Is that the name of the deaconess in the video?  Or the one who visited the US?

And does anyone know where I can read about that please?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2017, 07:53:56 PM »
Found this accidentaly:



A doll presenting Armenian deaconess

I need this. Immediately.
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 01:42:36 PM »
Huh. It works for me too. "Archdeaconess Hripsime" -- fantastic!

Is that the name of the deaconess in the video?  Or the one who visited the US?

And does anyone know where I can read about that please?

Archdeaconess Hripsime is the name of the deaconess in the video.  I do  not understand why the link is not working for you. 
I will look through my files and find the article you asked for.

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2017, 02:11:16 PM »
Huh. It works for me too. "Archdeaconess Hripsime" -- fantastic!

Is that the name of the deaconess in the video?  Or the one who visited the US?

And does anyone know where I can read about that please?

Archdeaconess Hripsime is the name of the deaconess in the video.  I do  not understand why the link is not working for you. 
I will look through my files and find the article you asked for.

Thank you for your help.  :)
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 06:13:00 PM »
Antonius, here is the quote about the Armenian Orthodox deaconess who visited the USA.

“Ervine writes of Sasunian: ‘In 1986, Deacon Hripsime Sasunian visited the Western Diocese of America, where she served the liturgy in a different parish of the Diocese on each Sunday of her visit. "


Also: 
“In 1984, Archbishop Vatche Hovsepian, Primate of the Western Diocese, ordained Seta Simonian Atamian acolyte at the holy altar of St. Andrew Armenian Church, in Cupertino, Calif. In 2002, Archbishop Gisak Mouradian, Primate of Argentina, ordained Maria Ozkul to the diaconate."

http://www.armenianweekly.com/2013/07/06/a-nearly-forgotten-history-women-deacons-in-the-armenian-church/print/


See also:
Ervine, Roberta R. “The Armenian Church’s Women Deacons.” St. Nerses Theological Review (New Rochelle) 12 (2007).
Oghlukian, Fr. Abel. The Deaconess In The Armenian Church – A Brief Survey. New Rochelle, NY: St. Nerses Armenian Seminary, 1994.

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Re: Deaconesses in OO
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2017, 06:21:25 PM »
Thank you so much, Irene!  :)
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.