Author Topic: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family  (Read 1381 times)

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Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« on: May 17, 2017, 02:39:57 AM »
Jordan Peele Teams With Bad Robot for HBO Drama Series

HBO has handed out a straight-to-series order for Lovecraft Country, a drama series from the Get Out writer-director. Based on the 2016 novel of the same name by Matt Ruff, the hourlong show be written by Underground executive producer and writer Misha Green, who will also serve as showrunner...

Lovecraft Country follows 25-year-old Atticus Black, who joins up with his childhood friend Letitia and his Uncle George to embark on a road trip across 1950s Jim Crow America to find his missing father. The journey sets off their fight to survive and overcome both the racist terrors of white America and malevolent spirits...
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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 02:51:31 AM »
Doesn't really sound like a comedy.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 07:09:23 AM »
Doesn't really sound like a comedy.
It's black comedy.

I predict at least one episode will involve New Orleans; and one will take place on a farm near Athens, Georgia.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 07:11:08 AM by Jetavan »
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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 08:29:17 AM »
Blah. Wrong Lovecraft. I was hoping for the Lovecraft with emphasis on Occultism.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 09:28:29 AM »
Blah. Wrong Lovecraft. I was hoping for the Lovecraft with emphasis on Occultism.

I haven't read the book, but the Lovecraft referenced is indeed the Lovecraft. Basically the plot features a combination of Lovecraftian horrors with southern American Jim Crow horrors.

I think this is something to look forward to, for sure. And if this show is successful, the increased exposure of Lovecraftian stuff to the general public might be what we need to see some decent Lovecraft films in our lifetime (e.g. Guillermo del Toro's At the Mountains of Madness)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 09:33:44 AM by Iconodule »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 09:53:45 AM »
Consider rocking one of these, to raise awareness.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 10:24:14 AM »
Doesn't really sound like a comedy.
It's black comedy.

Obviously he's Black. My question is how any of this is funny.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 10:43:04 AM »
Doesn't really sound like a comedy.
It's black comedy.

Obviously he's Black. My question is how any of this is funny.

I don't see any indication that it's supposed to be a comedy. It sounds like primarily horror and that's how the book seems to have been taken. Though there is plenty, plenty of room for dark comedy in the Lovecraft universe and in the Jim Crow south.

Also, how is anything funny?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 10:45:38 AM by Iconodule »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 12:57:59 PM »
Doesn't really sound like a comedy.
It's black comedy.

Obviously he's Black. My question is how any of this is funny.

I don't see any indication that it's supposed to be a comedy. It sounds like primarily horror and that's how the book seems to have been taken. Though there is plenty, plenty of room for dark comedy in the Lovecraft universe and in the Jim Crow south.

Also, how is anything funny?

That's what I'm saying. They're funding Jordan Peele, but apparently not for a comedy.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2017, 03:32:25 PM »
I guess he, like many human beings, is capable of doing more than one thing?

It's the Abrams involvement that is more concerning for me.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2017, 04:38:18 PM »
It's the Abrams involvement that is more concerning for me.
Exactly.
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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2017, 06:11:17 PM »
I guess he, like many human beings, is capable of doing more than one thing?

It's the Abrams involvement that is more concerning for me.

He may be capable of standing on his head and whistling Dixie, but that's not his marketable fame. He's a first-class comedian and comedy writer. Just seems like something's missing.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2017, 04:20:09 PM »
Blah. Wrong Lovecraft. I was hoping for the Lovecraft with emphasis on Occultism.

I haven't read the book, but the Lovecraft referenced is indeed the Lovecraft. Basically the plot features a combination of Lovecraftian horrors with southern American Jim Crow horrors.

Considering that Lovecraft was a racist I can't think of him writing about horrors of racism

Quote
I think this is something to look forward to, for sure. And if this show is successful, the increased exposure of Lovecraftian stuff to the general public might be what we need to see some decent Lovecraft films in our lifetime (e.g. Guillermo del Toro's At the Mountains of Madness)

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Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2017, 05:34:15 PM »
Blah. Wrong Lovecraft. I was hoping for the Lovecraft with emphasis on Occultism.

I haven't read the book, but the Lovecraft referenced is indeed the Lovecraft. Basically the plot features a combination of Lovecraftian horrors with southern American Jim Crow horrors.

I think this is something to look forward to, for sure. And if this show is successful, the increased exposure of Lovecraftian stuff to the general public might be what we need to see some decent Lovecraft films in our lifetime (e.g. Guillermo del Toro's At the Mountains of Madness)

Indeed.  While Maine was the usual setting for Lovecraft, recall in the Call of Cthulu a major part of the story occurred in the bayous surrounding New Orleans.

Lovecraft himself was a nasty racist; he seemed to have a particular terror, a genuine fear, of mixed race people.  This is expressed very blatantly in The Call of Cthulu; another story set in the fictional decaying port of Innsmouth seemed almost entirely an allegorical warning of the dangers lurking if a society failed to maintain, in the author's own words, Lovecraft.

As a man, I think HP Lovecraft was consumed and ultimately destroyed in body and soul by terror.   His fears developed into mental and physical illness; he could not cope with this world and simply died in his 30s.  His writing is brilliant but tragic, both for what it represents and also when one considers the reality of the monsters in his own mind.  We should pray for God to have mercy on him. I really pity him greatly.
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- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2017, 05:41:16 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2017, 05:57:17 PM »
Because the glory of God shines through even his most deformed creatures.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2017, 06:02:57 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?

I am not reading his works, rather, I have read them in the past.   Also, I would note his demons are nor my demons; what terrified him (racial integration, evil aliens with godlike powers, a malevolent universe) does not terrify me.

His writing is an important part of American literature.   I would say its probably less harmful to read than most of what Truman Capote wrote.   Also, consider the murders committed by people who read Catcher in the Rye.

Some horror fiction is probably quite unhealthy; I don't like stories that deal directly with the devil (Satan).  I did not enjoy The Exorcist, Devil's Advocate, Constantine or most other material of that sort.  Satan is too evil to write about directly in allegorical fiction; these works just become too dark for me.   Rather, in literary or dramatic contexts my personal limit are malevolent entities that embody evil attributes without actually being the devil per se.  One exception to this was a second season episode of Doctor Who, in which the Doctor keeps the devil trapped in a black hole; this was just about the only episode of the new Doctor Who series touching on Christian themes that I did not find offensive or annoying.

 It should be noted by the way that Lovecraft's pantheon of evil deities do not contain Satan; rather they are an odd assortment of ancient dark deities, with Cthulu being the worst (although it is not entirely clear that Cthulu is even intelligent on a human level).

~

Some people should avoid reading horror altogether.   My views on fantastic literature are those of CS Lewis.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2017, 06:09:31 PM »
Because the glory of God shines through even his most deformed creatures.

This is a good point; HP Lovecraft was by all accounts a kind man, a decent man in his personal life, haunted by terror and plagued by illness.   His writings are genuinely good, creative and interesting.   They do reflect his spiritual illnesses (existential horror, racism, and so on), which were in turn at least partially of environmental origin (since he wrote in the 1920s and in the 1930s, when racism and racial segregation was heavily promoter by large numbers of well respected people as the solution for a vast array of social problems).  Of course, WWII amd the Holocaust, and subsequent events, including increased awareness of the 1915 Ottoman genocides, made us come to our senses to a greater degree, and while racism still exists, it is at least not the sort of thing one is likely to be taught in school in the Yankee community from which HP Lovecraft hailed.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2017, 06:11:59 PM »
Because the glory of God shines through even his most deformed creatures.

This is a beautiful post by the way.

Do you think there is any remote hope, as I believe St. Gregory of Nyassa hoped, that the glory of God might one day shine through a repentant devil?   Or does that glory shine even now in so far as the evil of the devil points us to the good of God?  (i prefer to avoid that thought on a certain level as there is a risk of Calvinism)
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2017, 06:16:59 PM »
It should be noted by the way that Lovecraft's pantheon of evil deities do not contain Satan; rather they are an odd assortment of ancient dark deities, with Cthulu being the worst (although it is not entirely clear that Cthulu is even intelligent on a human level).

Why should that be noted?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline William T

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2017, 06:45:09 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?
His writing is an important part of American literature.   I would say its probably less harmful to read than most of what Truman Capote wrote.   Also, consider the murders committed by people who read Catcher in the Rye.


I remember during my school days having to read that book, Sartre, and some beatnik writing.  I think I laughed out loud at some of  that 50's cafe "existential" stuff.  I've always found it really really bad...I never had the ear for it.

Anyway, there's no need to justify yourself for liking a piece of fiction by some inquisitor.   If you want to be provocative just say: "I'm an adult and when it comes to artistic sentiment  I'm not a very good philistine, Bolsheviki, or puritan".

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2017, 06:47:12 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?
His writing is an important part of American literature.   I would say its probably less harmful to read than most of what Truman Capote wrote.   Also, consider the murders committed by people who read Catcher in the Rye.


I remember during my school days having to read that book, Sartre, and some beatnik writing.  I think I laughed out loud at some of  that 50's cafe "existential" stuff.  I've always found it really really bad...I never had the ear for it.

Anyway, there's no need to justify yourself for liking a piece of fiction by some inquisitor.   If you want to be provocative just say: "I'm an adult and when it comes to artistic sentiment  I'm not a very good philistine, Bolsheviki, or puritan".

Well said.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline William T

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2017, 06:49:17 PM »
Doesn't really sound like a comedy.
It's black comedy.

Obviously he's Black. My question is how any of this is funny.

I don't see any indication that it's supposed to be a comedy. It sounds like primarily horror and that's how the book seems to have been taken. Though there is plenty, plenty of room for dark comedy in the Lovecraft universe and in the Jim Crow south.

Also, how is anything funny?

I haven't seen the movie he just put out but supposedly it's a blend of horror and dark comedy.  The previews for the movie didn't seem like a comedy to me at all (can't recall the movie name right now, "get out"?) so maybe it's in that vein.  Sounds like an interesting idea from what I'm reading in this thread.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2017, 06:52:45 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?
His writing is an important part of American literature.   I would say its probably less harmful to read than most of what Truman Capote wrote.   Also, consider the murders committed by people who read Catcher in the Rye.


I remember during my school days having to read that book, Sartre, and some beatnik writing.  I think I laughed out loud at some of  that 50's cafe "existential" stuff.  I've always found it really really bad...I never had the ear for it.

Anyway, there's no need to justify yourself for liking a piece of fiction by some inquisitor.   If you want to be provocative just say: "I'm an adult and when it comes to artistic sentiment  I'm not a very good philistine, Bolsheviki, or puritan".

And what about salvation and mental health? You would say you are too adult for those?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline William T

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2017, 07:21:03 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?
His writing is an important part of American literature.   I would say its probably less harmful to read than most of what Truman Capote wrote.   Also, consider the murders committed by people who read Catcher in the Rye.


I remember during my school days having to read that book, Sartre, and some beatnik writing.  I think I laughed out loud at some of  that 50's cafe "existential" stuff.  I've always found it really really bad...I never had the ear for it.

Anyway, there's no need to justify yourself for liking a piece of fiction by some inquisitor.   If you want to be provocative just say: "I'm an adult and when it comes to artistic sentiment  I'm not a very good philistine, Bolsheviki, or puritan".

And what about salvation and mental health? You would say you are too adult for those?

Anointing yourself  " the catcher in the rye" to this stuff would probably be the worst solution to any danger a piece of art may contain.  Life is danger...and boxing someone up may have some "mental health" side effects and dangerous risks as well.  Respecting a peers choices on the internet is probably a better called for virtue than unasked for paternalism.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:25:32 PM by William T »

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2017, 07:29:33 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?
His writing is an important part of American literature.   I would say its probably less harmful to read than most of what Truman Capote wrote.   Also, consider the murders committed by people who read Catcher in the Rye.


I remember during my school days having to read that book, Sartre, and some beatnik writing.  I think I laughed out loud at some of  that 50's cafe "existential" stuff.  I've always found it really really bad...I never had the ear for it.

Anyway, there's no need to justify yourself for liking a piece of fiction by some inquisitor.   If you want to be provocative just say: "I'm an adult and when it comes to artistic sentiment  I'm not a very good philistine, Bolsheviki, or puritan".

And what about salvation and mental health? You would say you are too adult for those?

Anointing yourself  " the catcher in the rye" to this stuff would probably be the worst solution to any danger a piece of art may contain.  Life is danger...and boxing someone up may have some "mental health" side effects and dangerous risks as well.  Respecting a peers choices on the internet is probably a better called for virtue than unasked for paternalism.

Oh the offended morals of the amoral.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline William T

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2017, 07:31:32 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?
His writing is an important part of American literature.   I would say its probably less harmful to read than most of what Truman Capote wrote.   Also, consider the murders committed by people who read Catcher in the Rye.


I remember during my school days having to read that book, Sartre, and some beatnik writing.  I think I laughed out loud at some of  that 50's cafe "existential" stuff.  I've always found it really really bad...I never had the ear for it.

Anyway, there's no need to justify yourself for liking a piece of fiction by some inquisitor.   If you want to be provocative just say: "I'm an adult and when it comes to artistic sentiment  I'm not a very good philistine, Bolsheviki, or puritan".

And what about salvation and mental health? You would say you are too adult for those?

Anointing yourself  " the catcher in the rye" to this stuff would probably be the worst solution to any danger a piece of art may contain.  Life is danger...and boxing someone up may have some "mental health" side effects and dangerous risks as well.  Respecting a peers choices on the internet is probably a better called for virtue than unasked for paternalism.

Oh the offended morals of the amoral.

the offended tastes of an aesthete.

Offline Rohzek

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2017, 07:57:22 PM »
And why are you absorbing his illness by reading his works?
His writing is an important part of American literature.   I would say its probably less harmful to read than most of what Truman Capote wrote.   Also, consider the murders committed by people who read Catcher in the Rye.


I remember during my school days having to read that book, Sartre, and some beatnik writing.  I think I laughed out loud at some of  that 50's cafe "existential" stuff.  I've always found it really really bad...I never had the ear for it.

Anyway, there's no need to justify yourself for liking a piece of fiction by some inquisitor.   If you want to be provocative just say: "I'm an adult and when it comes to artistic sentiment  I'm not a very good philistine, Bolsheviki, or puritan".

And what about salvation and mental health? You would say you are too adult for those?

Anointing yourself  " the catcher in the rye" to this stuff would probably be the worst solution to any danger a piece of art may contain.  Life is danger...and boxing someone up may have some "mental health" side effects and dangerous risks as well.  Respecting a peers choices on the internet is probably a better called for virtue than unasked for paternalism.

Oh the offended morals of the amoral.





« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 08:00:52 PM by Rohzek »
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Online Asteriktos

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2017, 08:17:30 PM »
If someone can't separate good from bad in Lovecraft (or Harry Potter, or...), I fear that things will not go well when they read Scripture. Some passages seem more clear and straightforward:

"God is love" (1 John 4:8)

Others passages probably not as much for such a person:

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

And still others confuse or trouble even some who have been faithful Christians for decades:

"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife." (Deut. 21:10-13)

St. Basil warned of dangers in reading about sinful adventures and vile philosophies, but he also trusted that even young people were able to sift through pagan texts, separating good and bad, and learn from the best stuff in such literature. This reading he recommended even to young people, as a sort of preparation for understanding the deeper things of Scripture. Perhaps you don't find anything worthy or helpful in this or that author or genre, but that doesn't mean that others can't.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 08:19:14 PM by Asteriktos »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2017, 09:02:11 PM »
If someone can't separate good from bad in Lovecraft (or Harry Potter, or...), I fear that things will not go well when they read Scripture. Some passages seem more clear and straightforward:

"God is love" (1 John 4:8)

Others passages probably not as much for such a person:

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

And still others confuse or trouble even some who have been faithful Christians for decades:

"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife." (Deut. 21:10-13)

St. Basil warned of dangers in reading about sinful adventures and vile philosophies, but he also trusted that even young people were able to sift through pagan texts, separating good and bad, and learn from the best stuff in such literature. This reading he recommended even to young people, as a sort of preparation for understanding the deeper things of Scripture. Perhaps you don't find anything worthy or helpful in this or that author or genre, but that doesn't mean that others can't.

What kind of cursed nonsense is this? Is the meaning of the parable unknown to you? Or did Mr. Lovecraft save you?

Assuming the best, and that your post was just fumbling after moral relativism: Do you deny that man suffers from illnesses of the mind or heart? Or only that such illnesses have causes? Or do you just assert that you and your friends enjoy a special immunity?

Sin and madness are contagious. Speaking such a plain fact is a violation of the amoralists' moral code, but health and salvation are on the line (as tho we need justification for ignoring ghouls like them).
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 09:03:56 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2017, 09:17:59 PM »
If someone can't separate good from bad in Lovecraft (or Harry Potter, or...), I fear that things will not go well when they read Scripture. Some passages seem more clear and straightforward:

"God is love" (1 John 4:8)

Others passages probably not as much for such a person:

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

And still others confuse or trouble even some who have been faithful Christians for decades:

"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife." (Deut. 21:10-13)

St. Basil warned of dangers in reading about sinful adventures and vile philosophies, but he also trusted that even young people were able to sift through pagan texts, separating good and bad, and learn from the best stuff in such literature. This reading he recommended even to young people, as a sort of preparation for understanding the deeper things of Scripture. Perhaps you don't find anything worthy or helpful in this or that author or genre, but that doesn't mean that others can't.

Quite so.  Also, if one managed to acquire the myriad illnesses of HP Lovecraft simply by reading his works, such a man would likely have been severely mentally ill.  The work of HP Lovecraft is not that scary, it is brilliantly creative, it is thrilling to read, it spans the genres of horror and science fiction; some stories have happy endings in which evil and sinister plots are stopped through dedicated and humble academics (the Wilbur Whateley story, for example); stylistically the writing is beautiful.

Porter, in mentioning Lovecraft's lamentable racism and his sad, frightened life, I was simply expressing pity for him.  I pray for him.  He had a beautiful mind and did beautiful work.  I love the paintings of Vincent van Gogh, who was extremely unstable, cutting off his ear and ultimately ending his life, never receiving in his lifetime the appreciation due his paintings, which are exquisite and among the most beautiful ever made.  Shall we further destroy the man by not looking at his paintings for fear they might somehow drive us to suicide?  I think many people been rescued from despair by looking at his paintings; he has doubtless saved from his own tragic fate many lives.  Consigning his work to an intellectual fire of intentional aversion would be pointless and arguably disrespectful.  We should instead celebrate the beauty he created, and pray for his salvation.

HP Lovecraft did not kill himself, neither did he create beauty on a par with Van Gogh, but his literary corpus is nonetheless thrilling and exquisite; I greatly enjoyed reading it in years past, and I pray for HP Lovecraft for the same reason I pray for van Gogh.

Everyone is in a state of sin and disease; the Anchorites succeeded in cutting themselves off from the world through isolation, but there are very few hermits in the Church, and that is a special ministry.  For those of us in the world we should recognize our own faults and not shun others, or their creative output, for fear of acquiring their faults, except perhaps in very specific cases of psychological vulnerability (there are some stories that describe family traumas I could not read; I expect the widow of someone killed in a plane crash would not be able to enjoy an inspiring air disaster film such as The High and the Mighty).   This is my view.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2017, 09:34:28 PM »
If someone can't separate good from bad in Lovecraft (or Harry Potter, or...), I fear that things will not go well when they read Scripture. Some passages seem more clear and straightforward:

"God is love" (1 John 4:8)

Others passages probably not as much for such a person:

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

And still others confuse or trouble even some who have been faithful Christians for decades:

"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife." (Deut. 21:10-13)

St. Basil warned of dangers in reading about sinful adventures and vile philosophies, but he also trusted that even young people were able to sift through pagan texts, separating good and bad, and learn from the best stuff in such literature. This reading he recommended even to young people, as a sort of preparation for understanding the deeper things of Scripture. Perhaps you don't find anything worthy or helpful in this or that author or genre, but that doesn't mean that others can't.

What kind of cursed nonsense is this? Is the meaning of the parable unknown to you? Or did Mr. Lovecraft save you?

Assuming the best, and that your post was just fumbling after moral relativism: Do you deny that man suffers from illnesses of the mind or heart? Or only that such illnesses have causes? Or do you just assert that you and your friends enjoy a special immunity?

Sin and madness are contagious. Speaking such a plain fact is a violation of the amoralists' moral code, but health and salvation are on the line (as tho we need justification for ignoring ghouls like them).

How can you be so incarnationally constipated?
Quote
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2017, 04:19:39 AM »
Or did Mr. Lovecraft save you?

Yes. St. Lovecraft, pray for us.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2017, 12:33:13 PM »
Or did Mr. Lovecraft save you?

Yes. St. Lovecraft, pray for us.

It's St Howard of Providence, Wonderworker and Equal to the Apostles.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Rhinosaur

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Re: Racism, Lovecraft, Abrams, and Family
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2017, 03:27:17 PM »
There's a comic out there called Providence which takes place in the 1910s and deals with racism at that time mixed with the Lovecraft mythos.

Also, the most evil Lovecraft monster is Nyarlathotep.  The other deities are largely dispassionate, but he enjoys tormenting humans