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Author Topic: Sharia Law defeated in Ontario  (Read 1565 times) Average Rating: 0
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SouthSerb99
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« on: September 12, 2005, 10:20:54 AM »

Islamic fundamentalist were attempting at introducing Sharia Law in familial arbitrations.  Premiere of Ontario said it would not be allowed (but at the same time banned all other forms of religious arbitration).

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1126478107546&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2005, 11:05:01 AM »

I am left unsure how to respond. Glad initially that our Ontarian cousins will be spared the 'blessing' of Sharia arbitration but wondering what effect the ruling might have on Orthodox Christians in the province? Difficult I suppose for the Premier, if you say no to one consistency and fairness say that you have treat everyone else accordingly.

A bit of me is resentful of the question ever arising. There is precious little real freedom for Christians of any hue in Muslim countries, and yet people - often with strong emotional and family ties to the those same countries, expect to enjoy every freedom and more here in the West. And many of those who most want these things are none too complimentary or grateful for the liberties they already have. A bit of me wants to say if you don't like it here and how we do things then pack up and leave.
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SouthSerb99
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2005, 11:12:03 AM »

I am left unsure how to respond. Glad initially that our Ontarian cousins will be spared the 'blessing' of Sharia arbitration but wondering what effect the ruling might have on Orthodox Christians in the province? Difficult I suppose for the Premier, if you say no to one consistency and fairness say that you have treat everyone else accordingly.

A bit of me is resentful of the question ever arising. There is precious little real freedom for Christians of any hue in Muslim countries, and yet people - often with strong emotional and family ties to the those same countries, expect to enjoy every freedom and more here in the West. And many of those who most want these things are none too complimentary or grateful for the liberties they already have. A bit of me wants to say if you don't like it here and how we do things then pack up and leave.

I felt the same way.  On the one hand, political correctness dictates that "what's good for the goose is good for the gander", on the other hand, I guess I'm a little disappointed that everyone is afraid to distinguish between reality and political correctness.

Last time I checked, Orthodox Christians were not advocating the gang rape of a women after her brother "looked" at another women improperly.  Sharia law is a tad bit extreme, wouldn't ya say?

Quote
Mukhtaran, 31, first came to prominence in 2002, after she was gang-raped in Punjab province on the orders of a village court, which sanctioned the assault as punishment for an illicit sexual affair supposedly committed by her 12-year-old brother, an allegation that turned out to be false. Such punishment of family members, particularly women and other vulnerable people, is not uncommon in rural Pakistan.  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/29/MNGCCDGGCI1.DTL
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2005, 11:54:39 AM »

Last time I checked, Orthodox Christians were not advocating the gang rape of a women after her brother "looked" at another women improperly.  Sharia law is a tad bit extreme, wouldn't ya say?
I agree. Most other religions (Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc...) do not support and advocate the kind of barbaric violence islam does.
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2005, 02:33:49 PM »

I have had friends and worked people who are Muslim. I also know that Christians and Muslims can and have lived amicably together. However the radicalism of some Jihadists is truly worrying if not frightening. They come but some seem to want the majority to adapt while they cling or even retreat into something not even seen in their homelands.

And in the spirit of being plain, I have no problem with variety in dress. indeed to see someone modestly dressed is actually refreshing but to be confronted with a pair of eyes peering from beneath a hijab and over a veil is disconcerting if not downright uncomfortable. Even the strictest nuns do not go so far.

Respect for all is one thing, because all are ultimately God's children whether they own it or not, but 'political correctness' is a socio-political construct of Marxist origins and, I believe, a nonsense. They swallow a camel but struggle with a gnat (to borrow).

Still what I and other sensible folk think counts for little with either the political 'elite' or indeed the academic 'elite'.

And thus ends my ramblings on this topic.
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2005, 06:10:21 PM »

I also know that Christians and Muslims can and have lived amicably together.
Until Muslims have the majority, and take power!
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2005, 09:54:46 PM »

I have had friends and worked people who are Muslim. I also know that Christians and Muslims can and have lived amicably together. However the radicalism of some Jihadists is truly worrying if not frightening. They come but some seem to want the majority to adapt while they cling or even retreat into something not even seen in their homelands.

And in the spirit of being plain, I have no problem with variety in dress. indeed to see someone modestly dressed is actually refreshing but to be confronted with a pair of eyes peering from beneath a hijab and over a veil is disconcerting if not downright uncomfortable. Even the strictest nuns do not go so far.

Respect for all is one thing, because all are ultimately God's children whether they own it or not, but 'political correctness' is a socio-political construct of Marxist origins and, I believe, a nonsense. They swallow a camel but struggle with a gnat (to borrow).

Still what I and other sensible folk think counts for little with either the political 'elite' or indeed the academic 'elite'.

And thus ends my ramblings on this topic.

The problem arises when a Muslim population of a particular country becomes the majority.  This will obviously have dramatic results in the way laws are written and relationships with the other minorities.

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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2005, 10:01:26 PM »

While I am not a supporter of Islam obviously I must say that historically in North India, where Muslims were in power until last century and where they are in many areas the majority, Muslims coexisted peacefully with other religious groups.  I had much more positive experiences in India with Muslims than I did with Hindus btw.  The current fanatical brand of Islam seems to be an outgrowth of Saudi Wahabi missionaries funding the madrasas in the poor Central Asian and South Asian nations.  In Iran, I read that Christians are pretty much left alone--they can even sell alcohol to other Christians.  If fanatical Wahabists took over, sure, I would agree that everyone else is in trouble.  But not if the more common and numerous moderate Muslims took over.  At any rate, I hope that Muslims of any stripe never take over anyone again though!

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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2005, 10:03:31 PM »

BTW, if Sharia law were ever implemented it would not be applicable to non-Muslims.  However, restrictive dhimmi status would be implemented such as what occurred under the Turks if Muslims took over.

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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2005, 09:21:55 AM »

The apprehension I have is that regardless of the historical relationships, today the radicalism of the Jihadists is such that minorities may not be able to live in anything approaching an acceptable relationship with Islam in many instances.

It pains me to write this, as in the past i have often felt more comfortable with some believing Muslims than secular Westerners or indeed some 'Christians', the latter for whom their belief was highly influenced by countless heresies ancient and modern, Hinduism, Zen and a 'spirituality of the 'pick and mix' variety. Some appeared only the accept the underlying philosophy, as they perceived it, of Christianity but not the Virgin Birth, nor the Resurrection nor many of the other miraculous events recorded in the New Testament, and as for fasting - you had to be joking.

(Indeed like at least one Western writer Islam strikes me as having some practices in common with early and Eastern Christianity but alien to modern Catholicism and to protestantism.

Now, I wonder which one is quite literally the 'enemy' within.

As for following the dictum 'My enemies enemy is my friend', no thank you. The West fell for that one with those struggling against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and lately by NATOs support of the Albanian narco-terrorists. Zionism? Look at its history. There is no comfort here for Orthodox Christians. Some American protestants may go down this path but I really would like askance at such allies of convenience.
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2005, 11:08:19 AM »

Costello tells firebrand clerics to get out of Australia
Samantha Maiden
August 23, 2005

PETER Costello is urging radical Muslim clerics to leave Australia if they do not share the nation's values ahead of today's national terrorism summit organised by the Prime Minister.

As Muslim leaders gather in Canberra to discuss the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, the Treasurer has warned Australia cannot afford to be ambivalent about the teachings of extremists.

John Howard has urged Islamic leaders to take a greater role inrejecting violence but he has been more restrained than the Treasurer.

"If you don't like those values, then don't come here. Australia is not for you," Mr Costello said yesterday. "This is the way I look at it: Australia is a secular society, with parliamentary law, part of the Western tradition of individual rights."

In an interview with The Australian, Mr Costello said migrants needed to understand and respect the "core values" of democracy, a secular society and the equality of women.




And he warned that Australia needed to be clear that the nation's core values would not change.

"If you are looking for a country that practises theocracy, sharia law -- which is anti-Western -- there are those countries in the world ... you will be happy there. But you won't be happy in Australia."

But he stopped short of supporting the deportation of radical Muslim leaders, in the wake of similar debates in Britain and France.

Mr Howard said in Sydney that he would be reminding the Islamic leaders at the summit that "our common values as Australians transcend any other allegiances or commitments".

He said Muslim leaders had a "particular responsibility" to make clear that Islam totally rejected violence and terrorism and that he wanted them to take ownership of the process of dealing with extremists' views.

"The purpose of this meeting is to underline to the leadership of the Muslim community that it has responsibilities," Mr Howard said.

He refused to budge on suggestions he should include extremists in the summit and said they would flood the media with extreme remarks.

"It would undermine the good work of the leaders of 99 per cent of the Muslim community in Australia who are trying to do the right thing, are trying to work with their fellow Australians and don't want prominence given to extremists," he said.

Kim Beazley and Labor foreign affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd said it was important to speak as widely as possible but said the Government would be receiving sensible advice on who should be included.

"I want to see the determination that we're going to uphold respect for Australian values -- Australian values of tolerance, Australian values of ensuring that we respect another person's rights, both in religious terms and their own dignity -- and to make sure that this notion of respect is included in the curriculum of all schools," Mr Beazley said.

Mr Costello also threw his support behind Australia maintaining a strong skilled migration policy. "Immigration overall helps our country in a security sense and an economic sense. I think there is an acceptance of immigration, more so than 10 years ago. I would like to see a strong immigration policy. I am not putting numbers on it."

Earlier this month, the Treasurer said the notion that terrorists secured a reward in the afterlife for waging jihad against Westerners was "repulsive".

Yesterday he said: "I have seen people that say they believe in sharia law and theocracy. If that's their view, don't come to this country. This one is not for you. I don't think we can afford to be ambivalent about this point to young people or anyone else."

Foreign Minister Alexander Downer also compared fundamentalist Muslims to Nazis as he defended the decision not to invite radical clerics to today's summit.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16352370%255E2702,00.html

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