Author Topic: About baptism or chrismation for converts  (Read 1516 times)

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2017, 12:17:56 PM »
Thirded....


and if it makes you feel even MORE secure, there are folks who are now priests who were received into the Church via chrismation.

Or having priestly vestments put on them by a bishop.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2017, 12:35:01 PM »
Thirded....


and if it makes you feel even MORE secure, there are folks who are now priests who were received into the Church via chrismation.

Or having priestly vestments put on them by a bishop.



heheh well that too...
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Offline Agabus

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2017, 12:40:17 PM »
Thirded....


and if it makes you feel even MORE secure, there are folks who are now priests who were received into the Church via chrismation.
I am certain there are... It's was just that in my case it was not because the church I was baptized in was heretical, but rather because it was and is in apostasy, because it actively denies many of the fundamentals in the christian faith. For example, as I said, there are many priests in this church that even denies sin and the virgin birth, and even says that God is a metaphor. I mean... This is, it seems to me, actually worse than to be an Arian or a Nestorian or something... Because many in this church really denies God... And well, the other issues I mentioned as well... But I guess you are right. I need to trust the priest.
Obviously it wasn't ideal, but if you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the grace of that baptism was still bestowed by God, not by the hands at the font.

The other thing to remember is that baptism and chrismation are incomplete without the other. For many converts, such as myself or you, the distance in time between the two acts may have been longer than for those who were fortunate enough to be born into the church or to have first met Christ there, but because baptism and chrismation are part and parcel, by being chrismated in the Church you were de facto baptized into the Church. It doesn't matter that the water from the first act was in the wrong location; you finished where you were supposed to.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 12:41:31 PM by Agabus »
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Offline beebert

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2017, 12:42:59 PM »
Thirded....


and if it makes you feel even MORE secure, there are folks who are now priests who were received into the Church via chrismation.
I am certain there are... It's was just that in my case it was not because the church I was baptized in was heretical, but rather because it was and is in apostasy, because it actively denies many of the fundamentals in the christian faith. For example, as I said, there are many priests in this church that even denies sin and the virgin birth, and even says that God is a metaphor. I mean... This is, it seems to me, actually worse than to be an Arian or a Nestorian or something... Because many in this church really denies God... And well, the other issues I mentioned as well... But I guess you are right. I need to trust the priest.
Obviously it wasn't ideal, but if you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the grace of that baptism was still bestowed by God, not by the hands at the font.

The other thing to remember is that baptism and chrismation are incomplete without the other. For many converts, such as myself or you, the distance in time between the two acts may have been longer than for those who were fortunate enough to be born into the church or to have first met Christ there, but because baptism and chrismation are part and parcel, by being chrismated in the Church you were de facto baptized into the Church. It doesn't matter that the water from the first act was in the wrong location; you finished where you were supposed to.
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Offline AlioshaKaramazov

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2017, 02:31:51 PM »
Not to mention a few saints.

Can you give some examples please?

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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2017, 04:14:25 PM »
Not to mention a few saints.

Can you give some examples please?

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Elizabeth_the_New_Martyr

and her sister was received the same way.  At the very least, Alexandra is a Passion Bearer, still canonized.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2017, 11:51:14 PM »
Obviously it wasn't ideal, but if you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the grace of that baptism was still bestowed by God, not by the hands at the font.

So true! I wonder of the modern Western cult of personality makes this concept somewhat foreign to us. Consider those Orthodox who have taken the elements of the Eucharist from the hands of priests whom scandal later revealed to have been awful men. Were those faithful Orthodox then not partaking of the Body and Blood? God forbid. The reverence and trust due the mysteria is toward God, not toward any men.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 11:52:13 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline irishpilgrim

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2017, 02:23:02 AM »
I am unaware of any "mass conversion" scheme by the late Metr. Philip of blessed memory. I was unbaptized & formerly nominal , estranged, Protestant and had to be baptiz d. I also did not receive any brownie points for my father's family background of being Syrian Orthodox.

recent convert,

Congratulations on your reception by Holy Orthodox Baptism. Perhaps the prayers of your Syrian Orthodox ancestors provided the brownie points that secured your return by Holy Baptism and, hopefully by ritual Orthodox Holy Chrismation. Background on anticipated earlier, and concurrent "mass conversions" via the defunct Antiochian Evangelical Orthodox Mission is discussed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Orthodox_Church. The anticipated next wave is discussed at http://www.antiochian.org/content/will-we-be-ready-coming-evangelical-collapse.

Hopefully the rejuvenating, amazingly blessed traditional patristic Orthodox gender, marriage and family ministry of Antiochian Orthodox priest, Father Josiah Trenham, will motivate all other English speaking Orthodox Jurisdictions to restore our Orthodox Holy Fathers' teaching and practice of Apostolic/Scriptural patriarchal gender, marriage and family theology and life, instead of the failed current demonic, family destroying, divorce producing Freudian/feminist psychological recent innovations. This solid family supporting theology should produce a true foundation for mass internal and external conversions by all legitimate Holy Orthodox jurisdictions.

 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 02:26:16 AM by irishpilgrim »

Offline Fr. George

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Re: About baptism or chrismation for converts
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2017, 09:55:06 AM »
Hopefully the rejuvenating, amazingly blessed traditional patristic Orthodox gender, marriage and family ministry of Antiochian Orthodox priest, Father Josiah Trenham, will motivate all other English speaking Orthodox Jurisdictions to restore our Orthodox Holy Fathers' teaching and practice of Apostolic/Scriptural patriarchal gender, marriage and family theology and life, instead of the failed current demonic, family destroying, divorce producing Freudian/feminist psychological recent innovations. This solid family supporting theology should produce a true foundation for mass internal and external conversions by all legitimate Holy Orthodox jurisdictions.

Be careful what you wish for - remember, St. Paul says "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body,[d] of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”[e] This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church." (Eph 5:25-32)

This statement becomes more meaningful, IMO, this week, when we get the images of "Apostolic/Scriptural patriarchal gender, marriage, and family theology and life."  The husband/father is called to be:


It's a fearful thing to be married in the Orthodox Church, hear the Epistle, and stare at a Crucifix (whether it's behind the Holy Table or elsewhere in the Church).
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