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Author Topic: First Things 2002  (Read 1661 times) Average Rating: 0
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Robert
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« on: February 24, 2003, 12:24:42 PM »

Hi,

I think Hypo-Ortho mentioned this on a previous thread, so I figured I'd start a new one on it.


http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0210/opinion/uzzell.html

Perusing through the First Things archive for 2002, I came across this interesting article on Russia and
Catholicism. Interesting points are made, especially in regards to Orthodoxy and the West. Since most of us board members reside in America, and are Orthodox, what are your feelings toward the writer's remark that westerners can never be Orthodox. How do the Moscow Patriarchate clergy feel towards the Orthodox Church in America? Please input your thoughts on these matters.

Bobby

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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2003, 12:38:52 PM »

Heiromonk James (Western Rite Orthodox) made a reply to the magazine in the letters to the editor to explain such things. One can read it here.
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2003, 12:42:04 PM »

The article has been in my site's headlines for some time. (The headlines will be long-term, BTW: for on-the-spot news, go to the blog.) IMO this is definitely the working understanding of Eastern Orthodox churches with the exception of the Antiochians in America. My guess is if MP clergy in Russia think of the OCA at all they think of it as an enclave for American descendents of their Slavic country cousins from Poland/Slovakia/what is now Ukraine, which of course 60+% of it is.
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Hypo-Ortho
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2003, 01:00:14 PM »

Bobby<<How do the Moscow Patriarchate clergy feel towards the Orthodox Church in America?>>

I don't know how the lower clergy of the MP feel about the OCA, but at the hierarchal level, relations could not be better.  The OCA "Representation Church" (of St. Catherine the Great-Martyr) in Moscow has seen both official and unofficial, less formal, visits by His Holiness, Patriarch Alexy II, other MP hierarchs, as well as by ordinary MP clergy.  And when MP hierarchs visit the USA now, the OCA rolls out the red carpet for them, so the warm feeling toward the MP is reciprocated by the OCA, at the official level at least, AFAIK.

Hypo-Ortho

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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2003, 01:10:35 PM »

Quote
I don't know how the lower clergy of the MP feel about the OCA, but at the hierarchal level, relations could not be better.  The OCA "Representation Church" (of St. Catherine the Great-Martyr) in Moscow has seen both official and unofficial, less formal, visits by His Holiness, Patriarch Alexy II, other MP hierarchs, as well as by ordinary MP clergy.  And when MP hierarchs visit the USA now, the OCA rolls out the red carpet for them, so the warm feeling toward the MP is reciprocated by the OCA, at the official level at least, AFAIK.

That's good. Not surprising considering the symbiotic relationship between the two, and in fact those Orthodox churches that don't recognize the OCA as independent (autocephalous) see it as the US metropolia of the MP. In a way the OCA as such is the MP's creation. During Cold War d+¬tente, the American metropolia of Russian Orthodoxy (de facto independent since the 1920s and voted for in 1946, when it broke from nominal ROCOR supervision) reconciled with the Russian Church and the latter granted it independence, in 1970. Parts of the agreement, AFAIK, are: 1. There are to be no new MP congregations established in America. (I don't think anybody thought the Iron Curtain would disintegrate and Russian immigration would fill US MP churches.) 2. Congregations that, during the conflict, chose to be in the MP are to remain so. 3. Locally, in SCOBA, the MP is represented by its daughter, the OCA.
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Hypo-Ortho
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2003, 01:36:33 PM »

Serge<<Parts of the agreement, AFAIK, are: 1. There are to be no new MP congregations established in America. (I don't think anybody thought the Iron Curtain would disintegrate and Russian immigration would fill US MP churches.) 2. Congregations that, during the conflict, chose to be in the MP are to remain so. 3. Locally, in SCOBA, the MP is represented by its daughter, the OCA.>>

AFAIK, Serge, the agreement also provides that current MP parishes in the USA may choose to join the OCA without penalty or objection by the MP, if they so wish.  You are correct that the agreement provides that no new MP parishes are to be established here.

This may provide a conundrum in the future if the ROCOR ever reunites with its mother, the MP, i.e., no new MP parishes here.  Would these ROCOR parishes and dioceses reunited with the MP be required to go under the OCA then?

As far as the MP being represented on SCOBA by the autocephalous OCA, that may be so.  But officially, the MP is respresented to the OCA by St. Nicholas RO Cathedral in Manhattan, which the MP has designated as its official "Representation Church" to the OCA.  

The MP has also requested of the OCA that it be allowed to have a "Representation Church" in Toronto.  I've never heard how that panned out.

Hypo-Ortho
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