Author Topic: Baptized Greek Orthodox-- Attending "Harvest Bible Chapel" for 2 months.  (Read 1445 times)

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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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I am born and raised as a Greek Orthodox christian at the Church of All Saints in Joliet Illinois, Father Stephen Bithos is the current Priest.

I have written many times before about this subject at these forums, you can see my recent posts herehttp://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=4507, mostly dealing with this issue which is my current situation, as well as my opinion for the last 20 or so years.

You need to read through those arguments first. However, I will try to summarize my opinion.

The last time I was here was mostly about something the Pope had said in the news a couple months ago.

I love what the current Pope has said and done in this evil world. He is a sinner too, according to Romans 3:12, there is no one who does good here on earth, Jesus asked us to try to love one another as ourselves.
And to Love our enemies too, so if the Catholic says to give you his shirt, give him your 3 carat diamond ring too.

Need I say more? Do you understand that I love God more than my Mother and the Greek Orthodox people. Catholics and Protestants are all equally under sin.
I love Mexico, and Canada, since I live in Chicago area, they are my neighbors too.

Your judgment is not what concerns me.

Forgive me if I am disrespectful, but it was intended for God's glory only, not mine or yours.

******edit********

What are your thoughts?

Am I condemned for going to a Protestant church similar to Moody?

What requirements do you have in your heart, that only God can see?

« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 02:03:54 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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I don't see the problem, as long as you don't adopt their ideology.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”- St. Ambrose of Milan

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Offline rakovsky

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What do you think about attending an Orthodox Church?
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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I realize that you're trying to be provocative here, but really, having read a number of your posts on similar subjects over the years, your problem seems to be that you've willfully conflated the idea that all human beings are sinful and in need of God's mercy and grace with the idea that no church can say it is the true Church.  You think that all Christians are a part of the Church, and so it really doesn't matter where you pray, how you pray, or what you believe about God.

I am born and raised as a Greek Orthodox christian at the Church of All Saints in Joliet Illinois, Father Stephen Bithos is the current Priest.

Is he your Father of Confession?  Do you have a Father of Confession?

I have written many times before about this subject at these forums, you can see my recent posts herehttp://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=4507, mostly dealing with this issue which is my current situation, as well as my opinion for the last 20 or so years.

I know.

You need to read through those arguments first.

I have.  Or at least enough of them to know where you stand on this issue, and that you will not truly consider opinions which contradict your own, unfairly condemning them as unloving and uncharitable.

However, I will try to summarize my opinion.

The last time I was here was mostly about something the Pope had said in the news a couple months ago.

I love what the current Pope has said and done in this evil world. He is a sinner too, according to Romans 3:12, there is no one who does good here on earth, Jesus asked us to try to love one another as ourselves.
And to Love our enemies too, so if the Catholic says to give you his shirt, give him your 3 carat diamond ring too.

Giving a robber your material goods doesn't equate to abandoning Orthodoxy for a heterodox church or a flawed ecclesiology which maintains that all Christians are part of one Church.

Need I say more? Do you understand that I love God more than my Mother and the Greek Orthodox people.

You seem to be creating a false dichotomy here in which in order to prove your love for God you have to abandon and revile His Church in favor of institutions He did not establish.

Catholics and Protestants are all equally under sin.

That doesn't mean they're all part of one Church.

I love Mexico, and Canada, since I live in Chicago area, they are my neighbors too.

And yet they are different political entities than the United States of which you are apparently a citizen.  You cannot go to Mexico or Canada and exercise the rights of a citizen in either place.

Your judgment is not what concerns me.

Then why do you invite it?  To revel in feeling rejected by those whom you wrongly consider to be unloving, judgmental, benighted and filled with rancor?

Forgive me if I am disrespectful, but it was intended for God's glory only, not mine or yours.

How is your posting this here glorifying God?

What are your thoughts?

Am I condemned for going to a Protestant church similar to Moody?

Have you asked Father Stephen Bithos?

What requirements do you have in your heart, that only God can see?

To be obedient to God and the Church He established.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 03:36:38 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
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Offline rakovsky

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I love Mexico, and Canada, since I live in Chicago area, they are my neighbors too.


The Chicago area has very many Orthodox Churches.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline recent convert

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One point of concern, I would think, would be to abstain from whatever  concept of holy communion they might observe.
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Offline Opus118

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I am born and raised as a Greek Orthodox christian at the Church of All Saints in Joliet Illinois, Father Stephen Bithos is the current Priest.

I have written many times before about this subject at these forums, you can see my recent posts herehttp://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=4507, mostly dealing with this issue which is my current situation, as well as my opinion for the last 20 or so years.

You need to read through those arguments first. However, I will try to summarize my opinion.

The last time I was here was mostly about something the Pope had said in the news a couple months ago.

I love what the current Pope has said and done in this evil world. He is a sinner too, according to Romans 3:12, there is no one who does good here on earth, Jesus asked us to try to love one another as ourselves.
And to Love our enemies too, so if the Catholic says to give you his shirt, give him your 3 carat diamond ring too.

Need I say more? Do you understand that I love God more than my Mother and the Greek Orthodox people. Catholics and Protestants are all equally under sin.
I love Mexico, and Canada, since I live in Chicago area, they are my neighbors too.

Your judgment is not what concerns me.

Forgive me if I am disrespectful, but it was intended for God's glory only, not mine or yours.

******edit********

What are your thoughts?

Am I condemned for going to a Protestant church similar to Moody?

What requirements do you have in your heart, that only God can see?

I seem to recall agreeing with you over the years and perhaps with you more than anyone else here.

I think I share in some/many of the things you have in your heart (if I recall correctly) but I have limits. I identify as Orthodox. It is part of me. I would not commune in another church. I would go to a Roman Catholic church if an Orthodox church was not available. From what I read here Protestant churches are just bizarre and I am going to get that Orthodoxy & Heterodoxy book to see if I can make any sense out of it.

Hope this helps.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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I seem to recall agreeing with you over the years and perhaps with you more than anyone else here.

Birds of a feather...

Selam
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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I don't see the problem, as long as you don't adopt their ideology.

Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.

Maybe you should clarify what Ideology you do not accept.
And if you never went to the place you cannot know what that is in the first place.
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Offline rakovsky

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 07:09:39 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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What do you think about attending an Orthodox Church?

I already answered that. If you have eyes Jesus said then you can see.

I said that any Church that professes Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he rose on the third day to heaven, to pay for our sins.
And they read the Bible and teach what it says. And they Love God. And they love their neighbor as themselves.

Why would I not attend an Orthodox Church.

To make it simple, I said I attend any Church that does those things as Jesus taught in the Bible. Jesus did not write the mass we celebrate in the Greek Orthodox church. I love the Greek Orthodox church.

What I do not like is whoever thinks his church is better than someone else, because of canon and the Mass, and other doctrinal issues that are what Jesus spoke against his own Temple priests doing 2000 years ago.

Brood of Vipers is what he called them, maybe you should realize that you are no better.
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?


There is one a mile(2km) away. I am estranged because I have been mistreated by the current priest.
I also feel there is no love there. Evil has taken hold.

They chased me away, just as Christ own church did when he went back to his own hometown.

Mark 6
1Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.

“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,a Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

4Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6He was amazed at their lack of faith.
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
(Edit)
I am not a prophet.
But that does not mean that I have not been wronged by said priest.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 07:34:42 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible.

Really?  They seem like a generic "non-denominational" (which is really a denomination) Evangelical Protestant mega-church to me.

https://www.harvestbiblechapel.org/

To make it simple, I said I attend any Church that does those things as Jesus taught in the Bible. Jesus did not write the mass we celebrate in the Greek Orthodox church. I love the Greek Orthodox church.

What is the Divine Liturgy to you?

What I do not like is whoever thinks his church is better than someone else, because of canon and the Mass, and other doctrinal issues that are what Jesus spoke against his own Temple priests doing 2000 years ago.

What does doctrine meant to you?  On their "What We Believe" page, Harvest Bible Chapel states their doctrinal beliefs to the exclusion of certain beliefs held by other sects which also meet your criteria as Bible-believing, God-loving, neighbor-loving Christians.  For example, they set themselves apart from the Charismatics as follows:

Quote
Charismatic Movement

Harvest Bible Chapel is a non-charismatic, conservative, evangelical fellowship that welcomes all who know Jesus Christ as their Savior and all who are seeking Him. Those who claim to possess the gift of tongues and other sign gifts are welcome to worship and fellowship with us if they are willing to be a source of unity rather than division within our church body. We believe that the Christian life is supernatural and that the Lord continues to perform miracles. We also believe that current displays of the gift of tongues distract from the main task of the local church, which is to glorify God through the fulfillment of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20).

Current displays of the gift of tongues:
•Give unwarranted prominence to the gift, which is described in the New Testament as being only one of many spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12).
•Emphasize speaking in tongues as the primary manifestation of the Spirit’s work in a person’s life, while minimizing the Spirit’s work in producing a holy life (2 Corinthians 3:17-18; 2 Timothy 1:9), and a life that displays the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22).
•Often suggest that speaking in tongues is a required proof of being Spirit-filled or of possessing salvation in Christ, even though the Scriptures do not teach this.

Harvest Bible Chapel seeks to prevent the propagation of doctrines that would cause divisions within an individual church. Therefore, members of and adherents of Harvest Bible Chapel are not to propagate the teachings and emphases of the current charismatic movement. Although we do not control personal, individual interactions with the Lord, the expression of tongues and other sign gifts are not to be overtly expressed at meetings that are under the organization and authority of Harvest Bible Chapel.

http://www.harvestbiblechapel.org/what-we-believe/what-we-believe-about/

Brood of Vipers is what he called them, maybe you should realize that you are no better.

Are "non-denominational" Evangelical Protestants better?  Are they a brood of vipers because they hold to a certain set of doctrinal beliefs that they hold to be superior to other belief systems?
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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I am born and raised as a Greek Orthodox christian at the Church of All Saints in Joliet Illinois, Father Stephen Bithos is the current Priest.

I have written many times before about this subject at these forums, you can see my recent posts herehttp://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=4507, mostly dealing with this issue which is my current situation, as well as my opinion for the last 20 or so years.

You need to read through those arguments first. However, I will try to summarize my opinion.

The last time I was here was mostly about something the Pope had said in the news a couple months ago.

I love what the current Pope has said and done in this evil world. He is a sinner too, according to Romans 3:12, there is no one who does good here on earth, Jesus asked us to try to love one another as ourselves.
And to Love our enemies too, so if the Catholic says to give you his shirt, give him your 3 carat diamond ring too.

Need I say more? Do you understand that I love God more than my Mother and the Greek Orthodox people. Catholics and Protestants are all equally under sin.
I love Mexico, and Canada, since I live in Chicago area, they are my neighbors too.

Your judgment is not what concerns me.

Forgive me if I am disrespectful, but it was intended for God's glory only, not mine or yours.

******edit********

What are your thoughts?

Am I condemned for going to a Protestant church similar to Moody?

What requirements do you have in your heart, that only God can see?

I seem to recall agreeing with you over the years and perhaps with you more than anyone else here.

I think I share in some/many of the things you have in your heart (if I recall correctly) but I have limits. I identify as Orthodox. It is part of me. I would not commune in another church. I would go to a Roman Catholic church if an Orthodox church was not available. From what I read here Protestant churches are just bizarre and I am going to get that Orthodoxy & Heterodoxy book to see if I can make any sense out of it.

Hope this helps.

Yes, you are loved.
I have often thought about you.
I did not remember your name.
Forgive me.

Your mistake is that you are being misled by what you read here.
There is nothing wrong with the Orthodox Church where you are attending.

There is also nothing Bizarre about Protestant Churches that I have attended over the years.
Please try and experience something for yourself before you follow what you read here.

I am so glad that you spoke to me because I often thought of your kind words.

I love you. God Bless you.
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible.

Really?  They seem like a generic "non-denominational" (which is really a denomination) Evangelical Protestant mega-church to me.

https://www.harvestbiblechapel.org/

To make it simple, I said I attend any Church that does those things as Jesus taught in the Bible. Jesus did not write the mass we celebrate in the Greek Orthodox church. I love the Greek Orthodox church.

What is the Divine Liturgy to you?

What I do not like is whoever thinks his church is better than someone else, because of canon and the Mass, and other doctrinal issues that are what Jesus spoke against his own Temple priests doing 2000 years ago.

What does doctrine meant to you?  On their "What We Believe" page, Harvest Bible Chapel states their doctrinal beliefs to the exclusion of certain beliefs held by other sects which also meet your criteria as Bible-believing, God-loving, neighbor-loving Christians.  For example, they set themselves apart from the Charismatics as follows:

Quote
Charismatic Movement

Harvest Bible Chapel is a non-charismatic, conservative, evangelical fellowship that welcomes all who know Jesus Christ as their Savior and all who are seeking Him. Those who claim to possess the gift of tongues and other sign gifts are welcome to worship and fellowship with us if they are willing to be a source of unity rather than division within our church body. We believe that the Christian life is supernatural and that the Lord continues to perform miracles. We also believe that current displays of the gift of tongues distract from the main task of the local church, which is to glorify God through the fulfillment of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20).

Current displays of the gift of tongues:
•Give unwarranted prominence to the gift, which is described in the New Testament as being only one of many spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12).
•Emphasize speaking in tongues as the primary manifestation of the Spirit’s work in a person’s life, while minimizing the Spirit’s work in producing a holy life (2 Corinthians 3:17-18; 2 Timothy 1:9), and a life that displays the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22).
•Often suggest that speaking in tongues is a required proof of being Spirit-filled or of possessing salvation in Christ, even though the Scriptures do not teach this.

Harvest Bible Chapel seeks to prevent the propagation of doctrines that would cause divisions within an individual church. Therefore, members of and adherents of Harvest Bible Chapel are not to propagate the teachings and emphases of the current charismatic movement. Although we do not control personal, individual interactions with the Lord, the expression of tongues and other sign gifts are not to be overtly expressed at meetings that are under the organization and authority of Harvest Bible Chapel.

http://www.harvestbiblechapel.org/what-we-believe/what-we-believe-about/

Brood of Vipers is what he called them, maybe you should realize that you are no better.

Are "non-denominational" Evangelical Protestants better?  Are they a brood of vipers because they hold to a certain set of doctrinal beliefs that they hold to be superior to other belief systems?

I have told Protestants and Catholics who also claim as you do to be the true or best Church exactly the same I am saying here.
I never said that the Church I am going to is better that the Orthodox or Catholic.

What Divine Liturgy can you quote from you Bible.

We read the Bible and the Pastor explains in a way that we can understand. Just as Jesus instructed the Disciples to do.



I said we all love Jesus Christ.
Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestants, Disciples in Christ. Equally.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 07:56:27 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?


There is one a mile(2km) away. I am estranged because I have been mistreated by the current priest.
I also feel there is no love there. Evil has taken hold.

They chased me away, just as Christ own church did when he went back to his own hometown.

Mark 6
1Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.

“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,a Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

4Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6He was amazed at their lack of faith.

(Edit)
I am not a prophet.
But that does not mean that I have not been wronged by said priest.

In the Biblical passage you are quoting, Our Lord was rejected by the people of the synagogue in His hometown because they were amazed by His teaching and the miracles He was working.  Why do you feel you were rejected at this church?
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Offline rakovsky

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?


There is one a mile(2km) away. I am estranged because I have been mistreated by the current priest.
I am sorry to hear about your bad experience.

I found 22 Orthodox churches in the City of Chicago.
http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/directories/parishes?parish=&clergy=&city=chicago&state=19&searchType=parish

If you put in your zipcode into the search, you maybe able to find others close to you.

If you found some within decent driving distance, would you go?

God Bless.



« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:14:43 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?


There is one a mile(2km) away. I am estranged because I have been mistreated by the current priest.
I am sorry to hear about your bad experience.

I found 22 Orthodox churches in the City of Chicago.
http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/directories/parishes?parish=&clergy=&city=chicago&state=19&searchType=parish

If you put in your zipcode into the search, you maybe able to find others close to you.

If you found some within decent driving distance, would you go?

You miss the point entirely. Read Bishop Ware advice on why. Or better yet just have a blessed day.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:07:23 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?


There is one a mile(2km) away. I am estranged because I have been mistreated by the current priest.
I also feel there is no love there. Evil has taken hold.

They chased me away, just as Christ own church did when he went back to his own hometown.

Mark 6
1Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.

“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,a Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

4Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6He was amazed at their lack of faith.

(Edit)
I am not a prophet.
But that does not mean that I have not been wronged by said priest.

In the Biblical passage you are quoting, Our Lord was rejected by the people of the synagogue in His hometown because they were amazed by His teaching and the miracles He was working.  Why do you feel you were rejected at this church?

The priest was wrong.

 He will find out when he goes to Judgement that he believed the wrong side about personal matters that he fully knows about. This treatment has been occurring for many years, he is incompetent. He does not remember and has a disability. I pray for him and do not want to make trouble for him, but God will let him know for me.

And many other reasons, I love him and told him that 2 months ago.

But I also attempted to see him 2 weeks ago, and he had his lackey send me away.

He also wanted to build a new Church and was rebuffed by the Bishop, whom I have a great respect for and love very much.

It is also about the politics of the community.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:20:05 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Offline rakovsky

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Reply #17 on: Today at 07:58:01 PM »

Read Bishop Ware, and do not insult my faith with your prejudice Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am confused. Were you directing that at me in your original message because I showed you how to find other Orthodox churches close to you?

« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:19:50 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Reply #17 on: Today at 07:58:01 PM »

Read Bishop Ware, and do not insult my faith with your prejudice Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am confused. Were you directing that at me in your original message because I showed you how to find other Orthodox churches close to you?

I already erased that, but since you ask, it is because you are like a plodding oxen, who reads but does not understand.

I love all Christians. Including you. But I do not need you to be saved. You are not God. You act like I need to find your Church, or else.

That is what I am against.

By any Christian.
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Offline rakovsky

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Reply #17 on: Today at 07:58:01 PM »

Read Bishop Ware, and do not insult my faith with your prejudice Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You act like I need to find your Church, or else.

Were you directing that at me in your original message because I showed you how to find other Orthodox churches close to you?
it is because you are like a plodding oxen, who reads but does not understand.
So you were calling me "Satan" because I showed you how to find a different Orthodox Church near you because you had trouble with your last priest.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:32:54 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Lack of love is why I avoid this place.

Please do not expect me to understand your lacking love for your enemy, let alone your fellow Christians.

All that I have said is to love others.

You all want to quote doctrine, not God's Word.

That is why you fail. I fail too.

I am the worst sinner, see my name?
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Reply #17 on: Today at 07:58:01 PM »

Read Bishop Ware, and do not insult my faith with your prejudice Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You all want to quote doctrine, not God's Word.
Right now I am just quoting you.

I asked if you would go to Orthodox Church, you answered that you had trouble with your last priest, so I showed you a directory to find more churches.

How does that make me "Satan"?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:36:01 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Reply #17 on: Today at 07:58:01 PM »

Read Bishop Ware, and do not insult my faith with your prejudice Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You act like I need to find your Church, or else.

Were you directing that at me in your original message because I showed you how to find other Orthodox churches close to you?
it is because you are like a plodding oxen, who reads but does not understand.
So you were calling me "Satan" because I showed you how to find a different Orthodox Church near you because you had trouble with your last priest.

No.
I called you Satan because you are prejudiced towards other Churches. You ignore what I said about why, so I again see evil coming out of your mouth.

EDIT

This thread is about PREJUDICE! by all Christians who think their Church is better than their neighbors. God is in charge here, and only He can overcome Satan. The Bible never said those things about finding the one and only.
Jesus said to go out and preach the good news to Jew and Gentile.

I never asked about finding your Church.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:42:44 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Offline rakovsky

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I called you Satan because you are prejudiced towards other Churches. You ignore what I said about why, so I again see evil coming out of your mouth.
You called me Satan in answer to this message that I wrote:
I am sorry to hear about your bad experience.

I found 22 Orthodox churches in the City of Chicago.
http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/directories/parishes?parish=&clergy=&city=chicago&state=19&searchType=parish

If you put in your zipcode into the search, you maybe able to find others close to you.

If you found some within decent driving distance, would you go?
Please explain what part of the passage above makes me "Satan"?
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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I called you Satan because you are prejudiced towards other Churches. You ignore what I said about why, so I again see evil coming out of your mouth.
You called me Satan in answer to this message that I wrote:
I am sorry to hear about your bad experience.

I found 22 Orthodox churches in the City of Chicago.
http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/directories/parishes?parish=&clergy=&city=chicago&state=19&searchType=parish

If you put in your zipcode into the search, you maybe able to find others close to you.

If you found some within decent driving distance, would you go?
Please explain what part of the passage above makes me "Satan"?

Answer me this, are you prejudiced against Protestant and Catholic Churches?
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Offline NicholasMyra

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Answer me this, are you prejudiced against Protestant and Catholic Churches?
They teach things that hurt people like the inner life and intentionality, purposefulness etc
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:49:32 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as 'Animal politicus.' So at least I am a human person.

Vote for a Ministry section on OC.net

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Answer me this, are you prejudiced against Protestant and Catholic Churches?
They teach things that hurt people like the inner life and intentionality, purposefulness etc

Really?

Are you sure?

Because they never taught those things to me.

I am well versed in what the Bible said, please show me where those words come up.

They are teaching the book of Daniel this month where I am attending.
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From what I gather, you're no different to any other protestant who thinks that they can interpret the bible better than the church has. The church is what gave you the bible, so before you accuse it of anything consider the fact that maybe you aren't above the church that Christ established, and the fact that you think you're well versed in the Bible changes nothing as long as you choose your own interpretation because it makes you happy or whatever garbage you believe you can achieve by picking and choosing from the writings of the apostles. Furthermore, you are mistaken in thinking that all churches are Christian. For close to 2 millennia Protestantism didn't exist, it's a recent invention, and as you say today's world is evil, I suggest you consider what has brought that evil.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 09:05:00 PM by gbesh »

Offline rakovsky

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I called you Satan because you are prejudiced towards other Churches. You ignore what I said about why, so I again see evil coming out of your mouth.
You called me Satan in answer to this message that I wrote:
I am sorry to hear about your bad experience.

I found 22 Orthodox churches in the City of Chicago.
http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/directories/parishes?parish=&clergy=&city=chicago&state=19&searchType=parish

If you put in your zipcode into the search, you maybe able to find others close to you.

If you found some within decent driving distance, would you go?
Please explain what part of the passage above makes me "Satan"?

Answer me this, are you prejudiced against Protestant and Catholic Churches?
If you need to ask, it means that what I wrote to you doesn't give you a good idea of the answer.

If you don't have a good idea, then how is it right for you to accuse me of being "Satan" for showing you a Church Directory?


If you go to a Lutheran Forum and say you had to leave your Lutheran parish, it's normal for someone to show you how to get to a better one.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 09:25:09 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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I have told Protestants and Catholics who also claim as you do to be the true or best Church exactly the same I am saying here.

What do I claim?  For the most part, I have asked you questions that you, for the most part, have not answered.  Have you told the folks at Harvest Bible Chapel that their church is not the true church and that the Catholic and Orthodox churches are just as valid in your point of view?  What do you think their response would be if you had the courage of your convictions to do so?

I never said that the Church I am going to is better that the Orthodox or Catholic.

Is that what the pastor of Harvest Bible Chapel believes as well?  That his church is no more doctrinally correct than the Roman Catholic or Orthodox Church?

What Divine Liturgy can you quote from you Bible.

Ephesians 5:19 is the oldest description of the Divine Liturgy on record.

We read the Bible and the Pastor explains in a way that we can understand. Just as Jesus instructed the Disciples to do.

Is that all that He instructed them to do?

I said we all love Jesus Christ.

Then why don't you want to be in the Church He established?
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?


There is one a mile(2km) away. I am estranged because I have been mistreated by the current priest.
I also feel there is no love there. Evil has taken hold.

They chased me away, just as Christ own church did when he went back to his own hometown.

Mark 6
1Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.

“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,a Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

4Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6He was amazed at their lack of faith.

(Edit)
I am not a prophet.
But that does not mean that I have not been wronged by said priest.

In the Biblical passage you are quoting, Our Lord was rejected by the people of the synagogue in His hometown because they were amazed by His teaching and the miracles He was working.  Why do you feel you were rejected at this church?

The priest was wrong.

 He will find out when he goes to Judgement that he believed the wrong side about personal matters that he fully knows about. This treatment has been occurring for many years, he is incompetent. He does not remember and has a disability. I pray for him and do not want to make trouble for him, but God will let him know for me.

And many other reasons, I love him and told him that 2 months ago.

But I also attempted to see him 2 weeks ago, and he had his lackey send me away.

He also wanted to build a new Church and was rebuffed by the Bishop, whom I have a great respect for and love very much.

It is also about the politics of the community.

This all sounds like personal issues you have with an individual who happens to be a priest.  It doesn't in any way speak to your beliefs concerning Orthodoxy, heterodoxy, or ecclesiology.

Lack of love is why I avoid this place.

Please do not expect me to understand your lacking love for your enemy, let alone your fellow Christians.

All that I have said is to love others.

You all want to quote doctrine, not God's Word.

That is why you fail. I fail too.

I am the worst sinner, see my name?

You call another man "Satan" for giving you directions to church and then presume to accuse others of lacking love?  Your actions here speak louder than your platitudes about considering yourself the worst of sinners.  Real humble.  Real Christian.  You're teaching us all the virtues of your new belief system in spades.  Thank you.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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This thread is about PREJUDICE!

That was your intent from the moment you started it, right?
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Offline Opus118

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I seem to recall agreeing with you over the years and perhaps with you more than anyone else here.

Birds of a feather...

Selam

I do not understand this comment. He has participated in a lot of conversations that were not specifically related to the recent (it goes back years and I do not have the time to see if parts do relate in some way).

What I do see quite often is the appearance that OCnet is a FoxNews/MSNBC-like channel where gotcha moments and ratings are more important than calmly and caringly trying to understand the basis of their opinion and gently state why you think they erred with specificity.  Rather than using detailed and dispassionate reasoning/arguments to see your point of view and bring someone back into the teaching of the Church, the person in question is ridiculed and rebuffed leading the person in question  to being further alienated. Charity is important. This is one reason why it is important.
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Offline rakovsky

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Dear Opus,
I agree with
calmly and caringly trying to understand the basis of their opinion and gently state why you think they erred with specificity. 
using detailed and dispassionate reasoning/arguments to see your point of view
He is saying that I am "Satan" for giving him a directory of local Orthodox churches.
Please say what you think the best way to engage with this.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline rakovsky

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Quote
Congregational Government is From Satan?

“Congregational Government is From Satan” was the title of an inflammatory blog post by James MacDonald, founder and lead elder of Harvest Bible Chapel.
...
Mr. MacDonald’s first point of why our form of church government is from the devil was because “congregational meetings are forums for division”.  While this may be a true point, it is essentially a moot point.  The devil can use any situation to divide, whether it be a committee meeting, business meeting, or church picnic.  The trick James did here was to contrast  divisive congregational business meetings with a supposed non-divisive elder board.  This implies that elder boards are not divisive, but is this an accurate claim? ... MacDonald made a public apology as well and, though it remains to be seen if anyone has really changed, he did issue a follow up blog post on April 16, 2015 entitled “Elder Rule Church Government is From Satan Too.”
What About Love?
MacDonald’s original outburst against congregationalism is echoed in our church by some today.   They argue from the same false premise, that it is used by Satan to divide.
http://churchfight.com/elder-rule-failure-harvest-bible-chapel
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 10:46:11 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline rakovsky

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From the founder of Harvest Bible Church that is based on a system of "elders":
Quote
James MacDonald Harvest Bible Chapel Excommunication

'We believe that the Bible that the authority of the church is vested in the elders.  And that when the elders speak collectively in agreement, they speak for God to our church.'

'publicizing viewpoints rejected by the elder majority for any reason is Satanic to the core'
Video:
https://archive.org/details/JamesMacDonaldHarvastBibleChapel


« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 11:00:53 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline TheTrisagion

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Here is my perspective regarding of what faith community you decide to align with. St. Paul stated that the Church is the Pillar of Truth. If we are to believe that Truth is objective, that means there is one Truth and everything that does not align with that Truth is, by definition, false.

The question I pose to you is: Is Harvest Bible Chapel the Church that St. Paul references? If it is, and you have a solid basis for that belief, then you should go there and you should forsake all other faith communities that falsely proclaim to have the Truth. If you don't have a basis for believing that it is the Church that St. Paul is referencing, then you should go seek the Church that St. Paul references. You should align yourself with the Church that St. Paul speak of regardless if someone in it is unkind, or mean, or unloving to you. Truth is Truth, and emotions and feelings should not be used as a means to look for an alternate "truth".

In regards to this thread, I suspect you realize that Harvest Bible Chapel is not the Church or you wouldn't feel the need to come here and defend yourself preemptively to a bunch of strangers that you know have bound themselves to another faith community. It seems like you are working rather hard to convince yourself of something that you know is not true and think that by coming here, you can hopefully get a few people to agree with you and thereby assuage your conscience.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 11:30:08 PM by TheTrisagion »
God bless!

Offline Porter ODoran

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What are your thoughts?

It's really very simple. What you want, you pursue. For reasons opaque to those of us who don't know you, you want what this Harvest Bible Chapel offers, and so you have found rhetorical ways by which to get it. (Further, what you want in an ultimate way may yet be buried in your mind and this Chapel would then prove to have been a step on the way to getting that ultimate want.)

Quote
Am I condemned for going to a Protestant church similar to Moody?

Obviously. You are partaking in the dismemberment of Christ's body. "The schismatic ... condemns himself" (my paraphrase of St. Paul). The myriad sectarians themselves are who are responsible for the fragmentation of Christendom, both historically and continuing today. Therefore, for someone with ostensible concern for the wholeness of God's people, you have certainly found an ironic way to express it.

Quote
What requirements do you have in your heart, that only God can see?

Only God and I, I'll assume you mean, since if only God then how could I inform you? I have the requirements natural to all of humankind whom God alone loves -- to become part of a genuine whole, to find a genuine head, to transcend the thousand petty thumps that fragment and deceive us from the Evil One and find impassible peace. Harvest Bible Chapel is so far from addressing these needs of mine and my fellow humans that I doubt its pastor-performers are so much as aware of them.
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Offline Opus118

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Dear Opus,
I agree with
calmly and caringly trying to understand the basis of their opinion and gently state why you think they erred with specificity. 
using detailed and dispassionate reasoning/arguments to see your point of view
He is saying that I am "Satan" for giving him a directory of local Orthodox churches.
Please say what you think the best way to engage with this.

Dear Rakovsky

I do not know. This situation was already poisoned, thus the "Satan" thing. I was hoping to start from the very beginning that started all of this. It depends on if Sinful Hypocrite is willing to start all over again. I think his heart is/was in the right place to a large degree. Asteriktos drifts in and out of belief, yet I find his humility an example that is instructive and what I strive to follow. He makes this forum worthwhile.
"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying

Offline rakovsky

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I like you.

I like you too Rakovsky.
"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying

Offline Rohzek

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?


There is one a mile(2km) away. I am estranged because I have been mistreated by the current priest.
I also feel there is no love there. Evil has taken hold.

Then there is only one rational solution to this problem. You must walk into the church during services. Enter under the apse where your priest is, and challenge him to a duel. The rules of the duel need not be deadly. Instead, I would opt for butt slamming. The first one to get knocked out from the altar loses and must go into perpetual exile. If you eat enough carbs before the match, you'll definitely win.
"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline minasoliman

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Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.


Dear S.Hypo.

Hello!
Maybe I ask if you would go to an Orthodox church if there is one near you?


There is one a mile(2km) away. I am estranged because I have been mistreated by the current priest.
I am sorry to hear about your bad experience.

I found 22 Orthodox churches in the City of Chicago.
http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/directories/parishes?parish=&clergy=&city=chicago&state=19&searchType=parish

If you put in your zipcode into the search, you maybe able to find others close to you.

If you found some within decent driving distance, would you go?

You miss the point entirely. Read Bishop Ware advice on why. Or better yet just have a blessed day.

I think Rakovsky is on point, and you are way out of line.

And what did Bishop Ware advise exactly?  Because from my vantage point, and I can cite two books by this bishop that can imply to you that you're in the wrong place and that you should click on the links Rakovsky gratiously provided for you so that you find a priest who doesn't mistreat you.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 03:39:39 AM by minasoliman »
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If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Quote
Congregational Government is From Satan?

“Congregational Government is From Satan” was the title of an inflammatory blog post by James MacDonald, founder and lead elder of Harvest Bible Chapel.
...
Mr. MacDonald’s first point of why our form of church government is from the devil was because “congregational meetings are forums for division”.  While this may be a true point, it is essentially a moot point.  The devil can use any situation to divide, whether it be a committee meeting, business meeting, or church picnic.  The trick James did here was to contrast  divisive congregational business meetings with a supposed non-divisive elder board.  This implies that elder boards are not divisive, but is this an accurate claim? ... MacDonald made a public apology as well and, though it remains to be seen if anyone has really changed, he did issue a follow up blog post on April 16, 2015 entitled “Elder Rule Church Government is From Satan Too.”
What About Love?
MacDonald’s original outburst against congregationalism is echoed in our church by some today.   They argue from the same false premise, that it is used by Satan to divide.
http://churchfight.com/elder-rule-failure-harvest-bible-chapel

From the founder of Harvest Bible Church that is based on a system of "elders":
Quote
James MacDonald Harvest Bible Chapel Excommunication

'We believe that the Bible that the authority of the church is vested in the elders.  And that when the elders speak collectively in agreement, they speak for God to our church.'

'publicizing viewpoints rejected by the elder majority for any reason is Satanic to the core'
Video:
https://archive.org/details/JamesMacDonaldHarvastBibleChapel

This all sounds like the sort of judgment Sinful Hypocrite thinks he perceives among the Orthodox and yet he is (willfully?) blind to it as it pertains to Harvest Bible Chapel.  I wonder why?
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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This situation was already poisoned, thus the "Satan" thing

And where precisely do you think the thread became poisoned? From what I can tell, it was poisoned from the outset.  The first post was deliberately challenging and provocative.  I agree with the assessments of Porter O'Doran and TheTrisagion on this score.  As the latter states most succinctly, the OP has come here to defend himself preemptively to a bunch of strangers whom he knows have bound themselves to another faith tradition and community.  One might say, with a bit of a chip on his shoulder, especially given his history of being deliberately provocative on this very subject in the past.  He has a bee in his bonnet about the Orthodox Church's claim of being the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.  He thinks it is judgmental, pharisaical, and wrong, and he condemns in the harshest pseudo-Biblical terms anyone who attempts to uphold the Orthodox position on this matter, even when, like rakovsky, they are being kind and inoffensive.

I don't see how you can say:

I think his heart is/was in the right place to a large degree.

Especially when his very first reply in the post after the OP, to xO4Cx's very inoffensive reply, was so defensive and borderline harsh.

I don't see the problem, as long as you don't adopt their ideology.

Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.

Maybe you should clarify what Ideology you do not accept.
And if you never went to the place you cannot know what that is in the first place.

It is patently obvious that Sinful Hypocrite arrived ready for battle with the exclusivist Orthodox Pharisees that he has created in his mind, whether they actually exist or not.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 09:37:41 AM by Antonious Nikolas »
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Offline Opus118

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This situation was already poisoned, thus the "Satan" thing

And where precisely do you think the thread became poisoned? From what I can tell, it was poisoned from the outset.  The first post was deliberately challenging and provocative.  I agree with the assessments of Porter O'Doran and TheTrisagion on this score.  As the latter states most succinctly, the OP has come here to defend himself preemptively to a bunch of strangers whom he knows have bound themselves to another faith tradition and community.  One might say, with a bit of a chip on his shoulder, especially given his history of being deliberately provocative on this very subject in the past.  He has a bee in his bonnet about the Orthodox Church's claim of being the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.  He thinks it is judgmental, pharisaical, and wrong, and he condemns in the harshest pseudo-Biblical terms anyone who attempts to uphold the Orthodox position on this matter, even when, like rakovsky, they are being kind and inoffensive.

I don't see how you can say:

I think his heart is/was in the right place to a large degree.

Especially when his very first reply in the post after the OP, to xO4Cx's very inoffensive reply, was so defensive and borderline harsh.

I don't see the problem, as long as you don't adopt their ideology.

Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.

Maybe you should clarify what Ideology you do not accept.
And if you never went to the place you cannot know what that is in the first place.

It is patently obvious that Sinful Hypocrite arrived ready for battle with the exclusivist Orthodox Pharisees that he has created in his mind, whether they actually exist or not.

I am sorry AN, I wasn't clear. I am not referring to this thread. This thread is the result, not the cause. I did not participate in the prior thread(s), I did not see how I could change things so late in the game.

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Offline rakovsky

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Protestantism has some appeal to some people, and I can see why. With Protestantism, you can make up your own version of Christianity and don't have to worry about bishops or other Christians telling you that you are wrong. You can start your own "denomination" (sect) and as far as Protestantism goes, your new denomination is wholly legitimate.

So if you want everyone to talk in tongues every Sunday, or you want to ban all religious pictures, or you don't like Divine Liturgy because it is boring for you and you want to have worship without it, then you can start your own denomination and do those things.

Maybe something similar going on here.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 10:00:27 AM by rakovsky »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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This situation was already poisoned, thus the "Satan" thing

And where precisely do you think the thread became poisoned? From what I can tell, it was poisoned from the outset.  The first post was deliberately challenging and provocative.  I agree with the assessments of Porter O'Doran and TheTrisagion on this score.  As the latter states most succinctly, the OP has come here to defend himself preemptively to a bunch of strangers whom he knows have bound themselves to another faith tradition and community.  One might say, with a bit of a chip on his shoulder, especially given his history of being deliberately provocative on this very subject in the past.  He has a bee in his bonnet about the Orthodox Church's claim of being the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.  He thinks it is judgmental, pharisaical, and wrong, and he condemns in the harshest pseudo-Biblical terms anyone who attempts to uphold the Orthodox position on this matter, even when, like rakovsky, they are being kind and inoffensive.

I don't see how you can say:

I think his heart is/was in the right place to a large degree.

Especially when his very first reply in the post after the OP, to xO4Cx's very inoffensive reply, was so defensive and borderline harsh.

I don't see the problem, as long as you don't adopt their ideology.

Their ideology is the same as what Jesus taught in the Bible. You are mistaken if you think there is something wrong with what the Bible teaches. Otherwise you just do not understand and I forgive you.

Maybe you should clarify what Ideology you do not accept.
And if you never went to the place you cannot know what that is in the first place.

It is patently obvious that Sinful Hypocrite arrived ready for battle with the exclusivist Orthodox Pharisees that he has created in his mind, whether they actually exist or not.

I am sorry AN, I wasn't clear. I am not referring to this thread. This thread is the result, not the cause. I did not participate in the prior thread(s), I did not see how I could change things so late in the game.

I understand now.  Thank you for clarifying, Opus.  :)

I am still not sure I agree that oc.net is a poisonous environment for people who have legitimate questions and concerns about the Orthodox Faith or the Orthodox stance on certain matters.  I do think that when people come onto the forum and attempt to challenge the Orthodox perspective - especially in a provocative fashion - they should not be surprised when we fail to fall at their feet and proclaim them a prophet who has awakened us from our Pharisaical stupor.  "How could we have been so blind?!?  The Fathers were mistaken!!!  All Christians are one Church after all!!!"  Yeah, sure.  ::)

I must confess that I find self-styled internet prophets - whatever their particular cause might be, even if it's one I agree with - to be irksome; most especially when they employ flowery, pseudo-Biblical language, like they want us to think they are some dreadlocked hermit who ambled down from their usual seclusion on the top of Mount Sanctimonious to bless us with their rarified wisdom when in reality they are usually a suburban fat guy with Netflix membership, a Tommy Bahama shirt with pit stains, a TGI Friday's discount card, and a penchant for Michelob Ultra and Sports Center.  I think that such Macy's Thanksgiving Day balloons will benefit from a good deflating as often as they bloviate across our boards.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 10:36:30 AM by Antonious Nikolas »
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