Author Topic: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts  (Read 810 times)

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Offline Luke

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Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« on: March 21, 2017, 01:04:12 AM »
Is it possible to bless icons during the Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts, or is only done on weekends?

Offline LBK

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2017, 01:14:47 AM »
Icons can be blessed outside of the DL, so it's unlikely blessing them during a Presanctified should be a problem.  :)
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 03:13:36 AM »
Why bless icons?
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 06:39:28 AM »
Why bless icons?

+1

This is an all too common and lamentable deviation.
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“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline WPM

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 07:08:07 AM »
Yes, the Priest sanctifies the Eucharistic Gifts and places it in the Sacristy for later use. (Body of Christ)
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 01:16:55 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 01:39:16 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

I think the literal communion wafer used by the priest during consecration prayers is saved from Wednesday until Sunday.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 01:44:45 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

I think the literal communion wafer used by the priest during consecration prayers is saved from Wednesday until Sunday.

What about the figurative wafer?
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Offline WPM

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 01:59:39 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

I think the literal communion wafer used by the priest during consecration prayers is saved from Wednesday until Sunday.

What about the figurative wafer?


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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 02:46:08 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

What on earth?
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 02:54:38 PM »
Pascha basket?
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 03:03:29 PM »
I have been told in a couple of places that placing icons in the sanctuary blesses them through their proximity to the Eucharistic consecration. It's silly but it seems to be a popular idea.
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 03:28:27 PM »
I have been told in a couple of places that placing icons in the sanctuary blesses them through their proximity to the Eucharistic consecration. It's silly but it seems to be a popular idea.

The previous week I asked my priest to bless 2 icons (gifts for 2 couples of my friends getting married); firstly, he took the icons to the sanctuary and they were there for the whole time of Akathist. Then he said a prayer and sprkinkled some holy water on them.

I've heard there are some traditions saying that new icons should be in the alter for the whole day, or even 3 (it works both for Serbia and Poland).
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 03:36:46 PM »
I realize this is almost a ubiquitous practice at this point, but having any kind of special blessing service for icons is a contradiction of the 7th ecumenical council. One of the objections that the iconoclasts raised against veneration of icons was that there was no service for blessing them, so how could they be venerated? The iconodules replied that the icons are blessed already by virtue of the subject depicted and the subject's name inscribed on them. The contemporary services for blessing icons can only be traced as far back as the 17th century I believe.
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“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 03:45:04 PM »
I realize this is almost a ubiquitous practice at this point, but having any kind of special blessing service for icons is a contradiction of the 7th ecumenical council. One of the objections that the iconoclasts raised against veneration of icons was that there was no service for blessing them, so how could they be venerated? The iconodules replied that the icons are blessed already by virtue of the subject depicted and the subject's name inscribed on them. The contemporary services for blessing icons can only be traced as far back as the 17th century I believe.

I think you may want to recalibrate your idea of what "contradiction" means. Redundant to the findings of the council, yes; but redundancy isn't contradiction.
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 03:47:28 PM »
I realize this is almost a ubiquitous practice at this point, but having any kind of special blessing service for icons is a contradiction of the 7th ecumenical council. One of the objections that the iconoclasts raised against veneration of icons was that there was no service for blessing them, so how could they be venerated? The iconodules replied that the icons are blessed already by virtue of the subject depicted and the subject's name inscribed on them. The contemporary services for blessing icons can only be traced as far back as the 17th century I believe.

I think you may want to recalibrate your idea of what "contradiction" means. Redundant to the findings of the council, yes; but redundancy isn't contradiction.

A: Icons need to have a special blessing.
B. No, they don't.

Yeah, that's a contradiction.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 04:03:17 PM »
You don't need those icons.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 04:57:53 PM »
I realize this is almost a ubiquitous practice at this point, but having any kind of special blessing service for icons is a contradiction of the 7th ecumenical council. One of the objections that the iconoclasts raised against veneration of icons was that there was no service for blessing them, so how could they be venerated? The iconodules replied that the icons are blessed already by virtue of the subject depicted and the subject's name inscribed on them. The contemporary services for blessing icons can only be traced as far back as the 17th century I believe.

I think you may want to recalibrate your idea of what "contradiction" means. Redundant to the findings of the council, yes; but redundancy isn't contradiction.

A: Icons need to have a special blessing.
B. No, they don't.

Yeah, that's a contradiction.

Where are you hearing any hierarch say, Your icons have to be blessed?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline WPM

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 05:06:29 PM »
Why does it say "blessing icons" instead of pointing directly to the Eucharist? ...
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 05:27:34 PM »
Why does it say "blessing icons" instead of pointing directly to the Eucharist? ...

You might be a theologian.
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 05:44:36 PM »


What is happening in this thread?

Icons do not "need" to be blessed, as we are advised to treat respectfully even the icons on bulletins, or paper icons, or the little card icons...none of which get blessed.

However, if someone wishes to get them blessed...what harm?  You can have your icons, your prayer books, your crosses, your homes, your cars, etc...blessed...all in a desire of God's Grace and your wellbeing.

It is a non-issue.

...and as for the smart comments...of you don't "need" those icons...well....you don't...but, they help.  You don't need eyes to live, but, they help.
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 05:49:33 PM »
I realize this is almost a ubiquitous practice at this point, but having any kind of special blessing service for icons is a contradiction of the 7th ecumenical council. One of the objections that the iconoclasts raised against veneration of icons was that there was no service for blessing them, so how could they be venerated? The iconodules replied that the icons are blessed already by virtue of the subject depicted and the subject's name inscribed on them. The contemporary services for blessing icons can only be traced as far back as the 17th century I believe.

I think you may want to recalibrate your idea of what "contradiction" means. Redundant to the findings of the council, yes; but redundancy isn't contradiction.

A: Icons need to have a special blessing.
B. No, they don't.

Yeah, that's a contradiction.

Where are you hearing any hierarch say, Your icons have to be blessed?

Hierarchs, I don't know, but I have certainly heard it from priests, monastics, and laymen.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Luke

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 07:41:00 PM »
My priest would not do it during the Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts, so I found another time.

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 08:20:49 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

What on earth?
We have a basket on the narthex, people will place offerings (wine, large candles for the bishop's blessing, etc.), their own diptychs and icons to be blessed. At some point (during the liturgy of preparation, I believe) an acolyte/subdeacon will take it into the altar. This is how we bless icons, how we ask people to be commemorated on the Divine Liturgy, and how we contribute financially to the day's service. Is it weird? :P
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 09:43:37 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

What on earth?
We have a basket on the narthex, people will place offerings (wine, large candles for the bishop's blessing, etc.), their own diptychs and icons to be blessed. At some point (during the liturgy of preparation, I believe) an acolyte/subdeacon will take it into the altar. This is how we bless icons, how we ask people to be commemorated on the Divine Liturgy, and how we contribute financially to the day's service. Is it weird? :P

I've never heard of a basket being set out regularly to collect icons for blessing.  How many are you people buying anyway?  :P 
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2017, 09:44:12 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

What on earth?
We have a basket on the narthex, people will place offerings (wine, large candles for the bishop's blessing, etc.), their own diptychs and icons to be blessed. At some point (during the liturgy of preparation, I believe) an acolyte/subdeacon will take it into the altar. This is how we bless icons, how we ask people to be commemorated on the Divine Liturgy, and how we contribute financially to the day's service. Is it weird? :P

I've never heard of a basket being set out regularly to collect icons for blessing.  How many are you people buying anyway?  :P

Oh they just put their iPhones in after a new download.
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2017, 09:46:59 PM »
I've never heard of a basket being set out regularly to collect icons for blessing.  How many are you people buying anyway?  :P
Oh, it's not only for icons, but also for wine, oil, incense, candles and diptychs. Including which will be used in the ongoing liturgy.

"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2017, 10:04:56 PM »
I like that Catherine. 
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2017, 11:48:28 AM »
I've never heard of a basket being set out regularly to collect icons for blessing.  How many are you people buying anyway?  :P
Oh, it's not only for icons, but also for wine, oil, incense, candles and diptychs. Including which will be used in the ongoing liturgy.



What a nice custom.
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2017, 01:35:04 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

What on earth?
We have a basket on the narthex, people will place offerings (wine, large candles for the bishop's blessing, etc.), their own diptychs and icons to be blessed. At some point (during the liturgy of preparation, I believe) an acolyte/subdeacon will take it into the altar. This is how we bless icons, how we ask people to be commemorated on the Divine Liturgy, and how we contribute financially to the day's service. Is it weird? :P

I've never heard of a basket being set out regularly to collect icons for blessing.  How many are you people buying anyway?  :P

I'm curious if you can tell us anything about OO practices regarding blessing of icons.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2017, 01:48:27 PM »
Are you talking about the placing of icons inside a basket which will be taken into the altar? We had that on our Pre-Sanctified DL.

What on earth?
We have a basket on the narthex, people will place offerings (wine, large candles for the bishop's blessing, etc.), their own diptychs and icons to be blessed. At some point (during the liturgy of preparation, I believe) an acolyte/subdeacon will take it into the altar. This is how we bless icons, how we ask people to be commemorated on the Divine Liturgy, and how we contribute financially to the day's service. Is it weird? :P

I've never heard of a basket being set out regularly to collect icons for blessing.  How many are you people buying anyway?  :P

I'm curious if you can tell us anything about OO practices regarding blessing of icons.

Well, to the best of my knowledge, all of our traditions have a ritual for blessing icons, usually involving a prayer(s) and an anointing of the icon(s). 

Here is one example from my tradition.  I haven't seen it used all that often.  Maybe it is more common in the other traditions.       
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Re: Blessing Icons during Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2017, 07:07:06 AM »
I've never heard of a basket being set out regularly to collect icons for blessing.  How many are you people buying anyway?  :P
Oh, it's not only for icons, but also for wine, oil, incense, candles and diptychs. Including which will be used in the ongoing liturgy.



What a nice custom.

+1
It seems like a kind of offering given to the altar, on the same way it happen in Greece with prosphoras. Now the new rector of my parish (that's also my priest) is trying to introduce the offering of wine by lay people.
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)