Author Topic: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!  (Read 6234 times)

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Offline wgw

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Churc
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2017, 09:13:09 PM »
AN, I am replying to you on the private fora to avoid derailing this thread.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2017, 09:51:19 PM »
Okay.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Suryoyutho

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2017, 08:00:58 AM »
Bishops ask for forgiveness and the blessing of His Holiness.


Offline Samn!

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2017, 09:07:57 AM »
It's an interesting statement. They only implicitly recant of their schism by saying that that's never what they intended and there is no direct mention of the status of the (ex-?) bishops of Belgium and Jazira and the status of the priest that the latter ordained. Most of the statement is taken up with re-iterating their criticisms of the patriarch's administrative choices and an acceptance of his apology/clarification about venerating the Qur'an.... It seems that mediation has taken place and a resolution was found, but the details aren't clear from this.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2017, 01:22:42 PM »
Glory to God!
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2017, 01:36:19 PM »
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2017, 02:36:43 PM »
Good news!  Does that mean they're reinstated, or are they awaiting a response from His Holiness?
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2017, 03:38:46 PM »
Their letter of "apology" still seems pretty critical of His Holiness to me.   I glorify God that we're on the road to recovery, but I don't think it's kiss and make up time just yet.  Let's see what the Synod and His Holiness have to say.  Lord, have mercy.  :-\
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline dhinuus

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2017, 03:52:50 PM »
.. no direct mention of the status of the (ex-?) bishops of Belgium and Jazira and the status of the priest that the latter ordained.

Mor Eusthathius Matta Roham, who was the  Archbishop of Jezira and the Euphrates; by himself abandoned his flock at the most critical time for the folk and fled to Austria.  The Synod gave him 6 months to return to his Archdiocese and take care of the flock; which he didnot, but chose to stay in the safety offered by Europe. So a new Archbishop was installed for Jezira and the Euphrates.  I am not sure how you can revisit that.

So Mor Eusthathius Matta Roham, is now a general bishop with no diocese assigned.  And no canon allows an archbishop to ordain a priest outside his archdiocese. So anybody an archbishop who has fled his archdiocese ordains within the jurisdiction of another bishop is not a canonically ordained priest.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 03:54:40 PM by dhinuus »
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Offline dhinuus

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2017, 03:58:55 PM »
Let's see what the Synod and His Holiness have to say.  Lord, have mercy.  :-\
H.H also has to be careful how is chooses to express the "Love your enemy" command.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2017, 08:55:13 PM »
The Standing Conference of Oriental Orthodox Churches has issued a strong statement in support of His Holiness here.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Suryoyutho

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2017, 09:54:56 AM »



Offline Suryoyutho

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2017, 09:56:08 AM »
http://prayforthepatriarch.com/

A gift to His Holiness Kumran Rabo Ignatius Aphrem II, Patriarch of Antioch and all the East and Supreme Head of the Universal Syriac Orthodox Church.

With great energy, His Holiness travels around the world, visits His scattered herd, works for His Lord and His church and prays with great spirit, pouring His blessings upon us. As an initiative to repay this in a small yet important way, we want the people to contribute to His Holiness by also praying for Him.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2017, 10:02:35 AM »
http://prayforthepatriarch.com/

A gift to His Holiness Kumran Rabo Ignatius Aphrem II, Patriarch of Antioch and all the East and Supreme Head of the Universal Syriac Orthodox Church.

With great energy, His Holiness travels around the world, visits His scattered herd, works for His Lord and His church and prays with great spirit, pouring His blessings upon us. As an initiative to repay this in a small yet important way, we want the people to contribute to His Holiness by also praying for Him.

Amen.  Lord, have mercy.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline wgw

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2017, 10:22:12 AM »
http://prayforthepatriarch.com/

A gift to His Holiness Kumran Rabo Ignatius Aphrem II, Patriarch of Antioch and all the East and Supreme Head of the Universal Syriac Orthodox Church.

With great energy, His Holiness travels around the world, visits His scattered herd, works for His Lord and His church and prays with great spirit, pouring His blessings upon us. As an initiative to repay this in a small yet important way, we want the people to contribute to His Holiness by also praying for Him.

Amen.  Lord, have mercy.

Indeed.  Kyrie eleison
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline dhinuus

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2017, 12:45:22 AM »


« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 12:46:14 AM by dhinuus »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2017, 03:12:14 PM »
May God give the bishops who were offered a period of time to offer their repentance per item three a heart for true repentance and reconciliation.  May God heal his Church and prevent any lasting schism or the formation of what could only be an illicit and illegitimate parallel administration.  May God also give the suspended bishops a heart for repentance.  Lord, have mercy.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 03:14:49 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline CopticDeacon

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2017, 08:04:26 AM »
Updates?
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2017, 09:38:20 AM »
The four bishops who have not been suspended have until the end of this month to reconcile with His Holiness and the Holy Synod and accept its decisions.  Let us pray that God gives them a heart for repentence and reconciliation.  Amen.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline dhinuus

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2017, 05:08:42 PM »
His Holiness Patriarch Mor Ignatius Aphrem II received His Eminence Mor Severius Malke Mourad (one of the bishops who accused the Patriarch of venerating the Quran), Patriarchal Vicar in Jerusalem, Jordan and the Holy Land, at the Patriarchal Residence in Atchaneh - Lebanon
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2017, 05:18:27 PM »
May God bring about peace and reconciliation in His Holy Church.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2017, 10:21:38 PM »
Is he the only protesting metropolitan who has submitted to the Antioch Patriarchate?

His Holiness Patriarch Mor Ignatius Aphrem II received His Eminence Mor Severius Malke Mourad (one of the bishops who accused the Patriarch of venerating the Quran), Patriarchal Vicar in Jerusalem, Jordan and the Holy Land, at the Patriarchal Residence in Atchaneh - Lebanon

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Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2017, 12:36:52 AM »
From this subject we can talk about an important problem is when and how we as oriental christian become dhimmi.

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2017, 11:49:31 AM »
From this subject we can talk about an important problem is when and how we as oriental christian become dhimmi.

What church are you a part of, Youssef?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2017, 03:09:58 PM »
From this subject we can talk about an important problem is when and how we as oriental christian become dhimmi.

What church are you a part of, Youssef?

Maronite.

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2017, 05:09:32 PM »
From this subject we can talk about an important problem is when and how we as oriental christian become dhimmi.

What church are you a part of, Youssef?

Maronite.

Okay.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2017, 05:56:14 PM »
From this subject we can talk about an important problem is when and how we as oriental christian become dhimmi.

What church are you a part of, Youssef?

Maronite.


Okay.

You are syriac or copt?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 05:57:02 PM by youssef »

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2017, 10:48:58 AM »
From this subject we can talk about an important problem is when and how we as oriental christian become dhimmi.

What church are you a part of, Youssef?

Maronite.


Okay.

You are syriac or copt?

Coptic Orthodox
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline dhinuus

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2017, 05:21:31 PM »
Is he the only protesting metropolitan who has submitted to the Antioch Patriarchate?
As far as I know all of them except the Mor Osthatheos Matta Rohum. (Metropolitan of Jazirah & Euphrates) who abandoned his folks and diocese at the height of the ISIS atrocities has been reconciled to the Patriarchate.  Mor Osthatheos  was given 90 days to return to his diocese and lead his folk;  but he was not ready to leave the safety of Europe; so in his place another Metropolitan was ordained and enthroned for Jazirah and Euphrates.
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Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2017, 07:09:07 AM »
It sounds like he has a somewhat different situation then. Thank God most of them have remained with the Church!

Is he the only protesting metropolitan who has submitted to the Antioch Patriarchate?
As far as I know all of them except the Mor Osthatheos Matta Rohum. (Metropolitan of Jazirah & Euphrates) who abandoned his folks and diocese at the height of the ISIS atrocities has been reconciled to the Patriarchate.  Mor Osthatheos  was given 90 days to return to his diocese and lead his folk;  but he was not ready to leave the safety of Europe; so in his place another Metropolitan was ordained and enthroned for Jazirah and Euphrates.
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Offline juliogb

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2017, 07:52:32 AM »
Well, I don't know Arabic, and Google Translate or whatever FB uses isn't so great, but I get the sense that at least some of it is theological.  For example, there appear to be videos of HH the Patriarch venerating a Quran and speaking well of "the Prophet Muhammad".  Also, I'm led to believe by some sources known to me IRL that at least one of the six bishops in this group was a/the chief rival for the patriarchate in the last election, so there's also that.
The EO Antiochian Metropolitan of Brazil has celebrated the Hijra with Muslims too... Stockholm syndrome maybe? I wonder if they actually represent Arab Orthodox in any sense having that approach. I hope not.


Are you talking about Dom Damaskinos Mansour? Well, I know that the syrian-lebanese community in Brazil is quite united and they overlook the religious issues sometimes, and there is also a friendly relationship between christians in middle east and shia muslims.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2017, 02:51:49 PM »
Well, I don't know Arabic, and Google Translate or whatever FB uses isn't so great, but I get the sense that at least some of it is theological.  For example, there appear to be videos of HH the Patriarch venerating a Quran and speaking well of "the Prophet Muhammad".  Also, I'm led to believe by some sources known to me IRL that at least one of the six bishops in this group was a/the chief rival for the patriarchate in the last election, so there's also that.
The EO Antiochian Metropolitan of Brazil has celebrated the Hijra with Muslims too... Stockholm syndrome maybe? I wonder if they actually represent Arab Orthodox in any sense having that approach. I hope not.


Are you talking about Dom Damaskinos Mansour? Well, I know that the syrian-lebanese community in Brazil is quite united and they overlook the religious issues sometimes, and there is also a friendly relationship between christians in middle east and shia muslims.

The Muslim president of Egypt has attended Coptic Orthodox services.  I don't think that if an Orthodox leader extends an ecumenical gesture to the Muslims many of us live cheek by jowl with that this is necessarily indicative of Stockholm syndrome or any more problematic than participating in an ecumenical prayer service with Evangelicals or Charismatics.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2017, 03:40:52 PM »
The orthodox patriach in Syria in the last easter has invited the mufti of Suria to say a word where he denied that christ on God.

Some lebanese christian are becoming shia. ;D
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 03:41:17 PM by youssef »

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2017, 03:52:02 PM »
Well, I don't know Arabic, and Google Translate or whatever FB uses isn't so great, but I get the sense that at least some of it is theological.  For example, there appear to be videos of HH the Patriarch venerating a Quran and speaking well of "the Prophet Muhammad".  Also, I'm led to believe by some sources known to me IRL that at least one of the six bishops in this group was a/the chief rival for the patriarchate in the last election, so there's also that.
The EO Antiochian Metropolitan of Brazil has celebrated the Hijra with Muslims too... Stockholm syndrome maybe? I wonder if they actually represent Arab Orthodox in any sense having that approach. I hope not.


Are you talking about Dom Damaskinos Mansour? Well, I know that the syrian-lebanese community in Brazil is quite united and they overlook the religious issues sometimes, and there is also a friendly relationship between christians in middle east and shia muslims.

The Muslim president of Egypt has attended Coptic Orthodox services.  I don't think that if an Orthodox leader extends an ecumenical gesture to the Muslims many of us live cheek by jowl with that this is necessarily indicative of Stockholm syndrome or any more problematic than participating in an ecumenical prayer service with Evangelicals or Charismatics.

The problematic is your church position.

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2017, 03:53:23 PM »
Well, I don't know Arabic, and Google Translate or whatever FB uses isn't so great, but I get the sense that at least some of it is theological.  For example, there appear to be videos of HH the Patriarch venerating a Quran and speaking well of "the Prophet Muhammad".  Also, I'm led to believe by some sources known to me IRL that at least one of the six bishops in this group was a/the chief rival for the patriarchate in the last election, so there's also that.
The EO Antiochian Metropolitan of Brazil has celebrated the Hijra with Muslims too... Stockholm syndrome maybe? I wonder if they actually represent Arab Orthodox in any sense having that approach. I hope not.


Are you talking about Dom Damaskinos Mansour? Well, I know that the syrian-lebanese community in Brazil is quite united and they overlook the religious issues sometimes, and there is also a friendly relationship between christians in middle east and shia muslims.

The Muslim president of Egypt has attended Coptic Orthodox services.  I don't think that if an Orthodox leader extends an ecumenical gesture to the Muslims many of us live cheek by jowl with that this is necessarily indicative of Stockholm syndrome or any more problematic than participating in an ecumenical prayer service with Evangelicals or Charismatics.

The problematic is your church position.

What are you talking about?  Clarify your statement.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2017, 04:07:17 PM »
Your church this time had take a clear political statement with sisi, even they would make him prophet. Here is the problem first the church has been against some of here children who are against sisi. But not here the problem the problem is in the future. Even they didn't get real protection

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2017, 04:41:57 PM »
Your church this time had take a clear political statement with sisi, even they would make him prophet. Here is the problem first the church has been against some of here children who are against sisi. But not here the problem the problem is in the future. Even they didn't get real protection

Let me make an attempt at translating what you say here.  I wanted to go backwards to Arabic and back to English:

Your Church now made a clear political stance with Sisi to the point where some members of the Church made him a prophet.  Here is one problem:  your Church has made a stance against some of her members who are against Sisi.  But that's not the main problem.  The main problem is in the future where even Sisi's supporters don't get real protection.

Have I conveyed what you are trying to say?
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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #82 on: September 11, 2017, 04:55:46 PM »
Your church this time had take a clear political statement with sisi, even they would make him prophet. Here is the problem first the church has been against some of here children who are against sisi. But not here the problem the problem is in the future. Even they didn't get real protection

Let me make an attempt at translating what you say here.  I wanted to go backwards to Arabic and back to English:

Your Church now made a clear political stance with Sisi to the point where some members of the Church made him a prophet.  Here is one problem:  your Church has made a stance against some of her members who are against Sisi.  But that's not the main problem.  The main problem is in the future where even Sisi's supporters don't get real protection.

Have I conveyed what you are trying to say?

Just for the last point. The problem in the future when the situation change. The coptic church didn't get protection in the last years despite her position.

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #83 on: September 11, 2017, 05:02:46 PM »
Your church this time had take a clear political statement with sisi, even they would make him prophet. Here is the problem first the church has been against some of here children who are against sisi. But not here the problem the problem is in the future. Even they didn't get real protection

Let me make an attempt at translating what you say here.  I wanted to go backwards to Arabic and back to English:

Your Church now made a clear political stance with Sisi to the point where some members of the Church made him a prophet.  Here is one problem:  your Church has made a stance against some of her members who are against Sisi.  But that's not the main problem.  The main problem is in the future where even Sisi's supporters don't get real protection.

Have I conveyed what you are trying to say?

Just for the last point. The problem in the future when the situation change. The coptic church didn't get protection in the last years despite her position.

If I only correctly understood your last point, then you need to rewrite your point, because I'm still confused.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2017, 05:06:10 PM »
Your Church now made a clear political stance with Sisi to the point where some members of the Church made him a prophet and they didn't get real protection in the last years. Here is one problem:  your Church has made a stance against some of her members who are against Sisi.  But that's not the main problem.  The main problem is in the future when the political situation change.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 05:06:54 PM by youssef »

Offline minasoliman

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #85 on: September 11, 2017, 05:10:14 PM »
ooooooooohhh...so the last part I made a mistake in...

Okay...I got what you're saying now.

Yea, such is life.  The Coptic Church is not new to sad changes, but if I respond in detail to your previous points, I feel we will be delving into political discussions, which is not appropriate in this public forum.

The best I can say is that I truly do believe the Coptic bishops make the best out of a situation for the intentions of protecting the Coptic people from harm, even if the decisions they make seem naive, unnecessary, or wrong at times.  I don't think they're "against" their children anymore that a father is "against" his own son for desiring to make a decision the father thinks is a bad idea and dangerous.  I also don't mind support of a political person, but to raise him to prophethood is another issue I also do not agree with.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 05:11:19 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2017, 05:15:35 PM »
ooooooooohhh...so the last part I made a mistake in...

Okay...I got what you're saying now.

Yea, such is life.  The Coptic Church is not new to sad changes, but if I respond in detail to your previous points, I feel we will be delving into political discussions, which is not appropriate in this public forum.

The best I can say is that I truly do believe the Coptic bishops make the best out of a situation for the intentions of protecting the Coptic people from harm, even if the decisions they make seem naive, unnecessary, or wrong at times.  I don't think they're "against" their children anymore that a father is "against" his own son for desiring to make a decision the father thinks is a bad idea and dangerous.  I also don't mind support of a political person, but to raise him to prophethood is another issue I also do not agree with.

But if you compare the position of Pope Shenouda when he refuse to go with Sadat to israel and the church position now . there is so much difference.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2017, 05:17:57 PM »
This has nothing to do with the original topic, and frankly, I believe the Israel issue has a political side to it to which also I will not discuss here.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #88 on: September 11, 2017, 05:34:24 PM »
This has nothing to do with the original topic, and frankly, I believe the Israel issue has a political side to it to which also I will not discuss here.
I know, but just to see the difference. We cannot talk about this subject without the political side.

Offline youssef

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Re: What's going on in the Syriac Orthodox Church?!
« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2017, 05:53:44 PM »
The difference is that i seePope Shenouda position  a great position and the church position now... Not great.