Author Topic: Catholic annulments  (Read 5627 times)

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Offline JoeS2

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Re: Catholic annulments
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2017, 01:43:11 PM »
Speaking solely as an Orthodox Christian, one person's annulment is another person's divorce.  No insult intended but if one were to read all the stories about annulments especially the more famous celebrities it makes on wonder a bit about the sincerity of what annulment is all about.  One personal experience is my close neighbor who was married for more than 10 years and BOTH were deeply in love at least in the beginning years.  But after 3 kids she decided that the marriage wasn't working, of which reasons I am not privy to, but here we have children now who were conceived in a once loving marriage now find themselves in a 'bastard' state of affairs.  I'm convinced that this is just another ploy on the part of the Vatican to ease one or the other out of a bad, sensitive situation.  Declaring there was never a marriage places a cloud of despair over any offspring that may result from these marriages.
The man is now married to another Catholic who is also the result of an annulment.......crazy world...And has been blessed by their priest.

For what seems the 100th time: an annulment is a declaration that a sacramental marraige never took place due to a defect in form or intent.  It is not a statement that a legal marriage never took place and does not mean the kid are bastards.

So the RC is admitting that it's sacraments are invalid? If a marriage is blessed by the church than it is valid. End of story.
The RC always admitted the possibility that a sacrament can be invalid, so does the OC.  If you celebrate the Liturgy with bread made from barley flour instead of wheat, knowingly or unknowingly, that  is invalid matter and no consecration can take place no matter how many times you pray over it.  likewise a marriage where one of the people is suffering from an impediment than the marriage is invalid.  annulment exists is the OC too.  For example, and this is probably going to be a problem in the future, a couple gets married one had gender reassignment and conceals this from the priest and he later finds out.  Guess who is having their marriage annulled even in the OC?  Now, most Catholic annulments are not this extreme.  The most common being defects of consent, and I understand the problem of annulling a marriage 20 years later based on one person claiming they didn't understand what they were getting into.  Which is why I am in favor of the allowing divorced and remarried Catholics, at least those abandoned by their spouse, to receive Communion.

"...one of the people is suffering from an impediment than the marriage is invalid."
Well, what about a case of where neither party has any indication of an impediment and fully understand their circumstances but years later get divorced?

Offline Quinault

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Re: Catholic annulments
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2017, 08:39:23 PM »
I am the OP from years ago. I have lost touch with the person in my OP scenario, (or more honestly; I have cut off contact for a variety of reasons) so I have no idea if she was able to recieve an annulment or not.

My opinion; annulments should be a one-off deal with only a few very rare exceptions. I don't think the marriage of the aforementioned woman should be annuled. Divorce is another matter altogether, but it isn't an ecclesiastical one. Her then husband even converted to Catholocism in order to have their marriage blessed per her wishes. The accusation that he didn't fulfill his vows doesn't exactly hold water when you make it whilst living with (and sharing a bed with) another man. Both parties didn't exactly fulfill their vows. My understanding is that an annulment is in essence saying that the marriage shouldn't have taken place and the error was an unforeseen one. If you recieve an annulment because one person doesn't fufill their vows, it seems to declare that the person granted the annulment actually did fufill their vows and I can't say that is true for either party in my OP scenario. The issue should be whether each party entered into marriage intending to fufill their vows rather than retroactively judging who actually did so.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 08:40:10 PM by Quinault »

Offline tcolon90

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Re: Catholic annulments
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2017, 08:56:31 PM »
I am the OP from years ago. I have lost touch with the person in my OP scenario, (or more honestly; I have cut off contact for a variety of reasons) so I have no idea if she was able to recieve an annulment or not.

My opinion; annulments should be a one-off deal with only a few very rare exceptions. I don't think the marriage of the aforementioned woman should be annuled. Divorce is another matter altogether, but it isn't an ecclesiastical one. Her then husband even converted to Catholocism in order to have their marriage blessed per her wishes. The accusation that he didn't fulfill his vows doesn't exactly hold water when you make it whilst living with (and sharing a bed with) another man. Both parties didn't exactly fulfill their vows. My understanding is that an annulment is in essence saying that the marriage shouldn't have taken place and the error was an unforeseen one. If you recieve an annulment because one person doesn't fufill their vows, it seems to declare that the person granted the annulment actually did fufill their vows and I can't say that is true for either party in my OP scenario. The issue should be whether each party entered into marriage intending to fufill their vows rather than retroactively judging who actually did so.

This my gripe also. When a marriage fails, the romam church seems to think that its due to a technical flaw because in their mind it cannot fail. But what they fail to grasp is that humans can fail evdn when God doesnt. Even if the marriage was performed perfectly, and even if the parties fully intended to keep their vows, the marriage can still fail. The marriage IS valid and did happen and you cannot say that it didnt. The Roman church can say that it will not divorce or anull them in this case, but on a pastoral level it knows that those arent practical options, so more often than not it will make excuses for anullment because it created an impossible situation where they cannot be seperayed but cannot be together either.

In such cases, divorce is the honest response. Both anullment and divorce would be sinful, but one is dishonest while the other leads to repentance and healing.
"For where the body is, the eagles will gather."

Offline Quinault

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Re: Catholic annulments
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2017, 09:01:46 PM »
If divorce was granted strictly based upon who fufilled their marriage vows alone, everyone would be divorced. I've been married two decades; I can honestly say that no, I haven't completely adhered to and honored my vows every single day. I am not a perfect wife, fortunately my husband loves me anyway. :D

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Catholic annulments
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2017, 09:55:19 AM »
I always thought that not allowing divorce was a major argument in favor of the Catholic church. It is one of the typical points brought up sooner or later. However, considering how this is currently handled, it doesn't seem to make any difference at all.