Author Topic: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY  (Read 2860 times)

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« on: December 23, 2016, 10:47:23 AM »
Quote
Thanks in part to our bias against non-Chalcedonians, we in the West know tragically little about the ancient Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. When Islam overran nearly the entire continent, Ethiopia did not fall. When European colonization controlled almost all of Africa, Ethiopia alone defeated a European invader (Italy). When our modern maps of Christian persecution reflect Ethiopia as a haven between brutal Somalia and Sudan, Western Christians fail to ask why. The EOTC does not define Jesus’ incarnation with exactly the terminology that many of us prefer, but they have been Africa’s city on a hill (the Ethiopian plateau) since the fourth century AD. Or perhaps they have been so since the days of the Apostle Matthew and the eunuch of Acts chapter 8, Barosh.

http://www.conciliarpost.com/theology-spirituality/church-history/best-conciliar-post-curious-case-ethiopian-orthodoxy/
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 06:35:20 PM »
Is there any other ancient Ethiopian church? Maybe like the Beta Israelites, only "Christian" also? From before St. Frumentius, let's say?
To my shame, I may have been very drunk when I wrote this.

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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 07:09:29 PM »
Thanks, Mor.  The article makes a few mistakes, but overall, it is kind, complimentary, and on point.

Is there any other ancient Ethiopian church? Maybe like the Beta Israelites, only "Christian" also? From before St. Frumentius, let's say?

Christianity definitely existed in Ethiopia well before St. Frumentius.  It came with St. Simeon Bachos, the Disciple of St. Philip, whom the article terms "Barush" for some reason.  A practicing Jew, he came back from his pilgrimage to Jerusalem and preached to his co-religionists in the country, converting many of them.  Christianity became the official religion of state when St. Frumentius converted King Ezana, but neither he nor the Church of Alexandria can take credit for planting the faith in the country.  That said, some scholars contend that he "completed" the faith in Ethiopia, and that the Christianity which existed there before his time was more accurately a form of Messianic Judaism, which accepted Our Lord Jesus Christ as the Messiah, but did not have the fullness of the Holy Mysteries, etc.  Other scholars dispute this claim.  One way or the other, there was no ancient church structure parallel to the EOTC.  What existed before St. Frumentius and what came with him were fully integrated into one body.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 09:12:25 PM »
Verrrrry interesting!
To my shame, I may have been very drunk when I wrote this.

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 10:04:11 PM »
Thanks, Mor.  The article makes a few mistakes, but overall, it is kind, complimentary, and on point.

Is there any other ancient Ethiopian church? Maybe like the Beta Israelites, only "Christian" also? From before St. Frumentius, let's say?

Christianity definitely existed in Ethiopia well before St. Frumentius.  It came with St. Simeon Bachos, the Disciple of St. Philip, whom the article terms "Barush" for some reason.  A practicing Jew, he came back from his pilgrimage to Jerusalem and preached to his co-religionists in the country, converting many of them.  Christianity became the official religion of state when St. Frumentius converted King Ezana, but neither he nor the Church of Alexandria can take credit for planting the faith in the country.  That said, some scholars contend that he "completed" the faith in Ethiopia, and that the Christianity which existed there before his time was more accurately a form of Messianic Judaism, which accepted Our Lord Jesus Christ as the Messiah, but did not have the fullness of the Holy Mysteries, etc.  Other scholars dispute this claim.  One way or the other, there was no ancient church structure parallel to the EOTC.  What existed before St. Frumentius and what came with him were fully integrated into one body.

+1

Yes, thanks for posting this Mor. It's refreshing to see an accurate article about the EOTC. One other correction: while the Ark of the Covenant does play a prominent role, our Divine Liturgy nevertheless revolves around the Holy Eucharist.

Selam
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2016, 09:19:31 PM »
Thanks, Mor.  The article makes a few mistakes, but overall, it is kind, complimentary, and on point.

Is there any other ancient Ethiopian church? Maybe like the Beta Israelites, only "Christian" also? From before St. Frumentius, let's say?

Christianity definitely existed in Ethiopia well before St. Frumentius.  It came with St. Simeon Bachos, the Disciple of St. Philip, whom the article terms "Barush" for some reason.  A practicing Jew, he came back from his pilgrimage to Jerusalem and preached to his co-religionists in the country, converting many of them.  Christianity became the official religion of state when St. Frumentius converted King Ezana, but neither he nor the Church of Alexandria can take credit for planting the faith in the country.  That said, some scholars contend that he "completed" the faith in Ethiopia, and that the Christianity which existed there before his time was more accurately a form of Messianic Judaism, which accepted Our Lord Jesus Christ as the Messiah, but did not have the fullness of the Holy Mysteries, etc.  Other scholars dispute this claim.  One way or the other, there was no ancient church structure parallel to the EOTC.  What existed before St. Frumentius and what came with him were fully integrated into one body.

+1

Yes, thanks for posting this Mor. It's refreshing to see an accurate article about the EOTC. One other correction: while the Ark of the Covenant does play a prominent role, our Divine Liturgy nevertheless revolves around the Holy Eucharist.

Selam

+1

One other minor nitpick: Solomon and Makeda never married.  They just had a dalliance.  He begged her to marry him, but she rebuffed him.  There's a couple of other things too, but I don't want to go nuts here, because I think the author was well-intentioned and not one of those reprehensible tools who tries to make it out as if we're a bunch of weed-smoking cultists under the guise of "curiosity" or because "they think it would be cool".
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2016, 09:25:00 PM »

One other minor nitpick: Solomon and Makeda never married.  They just had a dalliance.  He begged her to marry him, but she rebuffed him.  There's a couple of other things too, but I don't want to go nuts here, because I think the author was well-intentioned and not one of those reprehensible tools who tries to make it out as if we're a bunch of weed-smoking cultists under the guise of "curiosity" or because "they think it would be cool".

You are ETOC also?

Verrrrry interesting.
To my shame, I may have been very drunk when I wrote this.

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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2016, 09:31:10 PM »

One other minor nitpick: Solomon and Makeda never married.  They just had a dalliance.  He begged her to marry him, but she rebuffed him.  There's a couple of other things too, but I don't want to go nuts here, because I think the author was well-intentioned and not one of those reprehensible tools who tries to make it out as if we're a bunch of weed-smoking cultists under the guise of "curiosity" or because "they think it would be cool".

You are ETOC also?

Verrrrry interesting.

I'm Oriental Orthodox.  I can pray the deacon's parts in both the Coptic Liturgy and the Ethiopian Kidase.  I came into Oriental Orthodoxy through the Ethiopian Church, but began praying at a Coptic Church out of convenience some years ago, because I know we are one Church.  Right now, I attend a Coptic Church 3 Sundays out of a month, and an Ethiopian Church about once a month.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2016, 09:54:40 PM »

One other minor nitpick: Solomon and Makeda never married.  They just had a dalliance.  He begged her to marry him, but she rebuffed him.  There's a couple of other things too, but I don't want to go nuts here, because I think the author was well-intentioned and not one of those reprehensible tools who tries to make it out as if we're a bunch of weed-smoking cultists under the guise of "curiosity" or because "they think it would be cool".

You are ETOC also?

Verrrrry interesting.

I'm Oriental Orthodox.  I can pray the deacon's parts in both the Coptic Liturgy and the Ethiopian Kidase.  I came into Oriental Orthodoxy through the Ethiopian Church, but began praying at a Coptic Church out of convenience some years ago, because I know we are one Church.  Right now, I attend a Coptic Church 3 Sundays out of a month, and an Ethiopian Church about once a month.

Yeah, but do you have a Christmas tree, or are you watching "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" this holiday (on a free Starz preview)?

I'm not sure that it needs to be said, however I am watching Star Wars.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 09:57:34 PM by mcarmichael »
To my shame, I may have been very drunk when I wrote this.

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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2016, 10:11:51 PM »

One other minor nitpick: Solomon and Makeda never married.  They just had a dalliance.  He begged her to marry him, but she rebuffed him.  There's a couple of other things too, but I don't want to go nuts here, because I think the author was well-intentioned and not one of those reprehensible tools who tries to make it out as if we're a bunch of weed-smoking cultists under the guise of "curiosity" or because "they think it would be cool".

You are ETOC also?

Verrrrry interesting.

I'm Oriental Orthodox.  I can pray the deacon's parts in both the Coptic Liturgy and the Ethiopian Kidase.  I came into Oriental Orthodoxy through the Ethiopian Church, but began praying at a Coptic Church out of convenience some years ago, because I know we are one Church.  Right now, I attend a Coptic Church 3 Sundays out of a month, and an Ethiopian Church about once a month.

Yeah, but do you have a Christmas tree, or are you watching "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" this holiday (on a free Starz preview)?

I'm not sure that it needs to be said, however I am watching Star Wars.

Are you by any chance from Granbury, Texas?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2016, 10:54:54 PM »

One other minor nitpick: Solomon and Makeda never married.  They just had a dalliance.  He begged her to marry him, but she rebuffed him.  There's a couple of other things too, but I don't want to go nuts here, because I think the author was well-intentioned and not one of those reprehensible tools who tries to make it out as if we're a bunch of weed-smoking cultists under the guise of "curiosity" or because "they think it would be cool".

You are ETOC also?

Verrrrry interesting.

I'm Oriental Orthodox.  I can pray the deacon's parts in both the Coptic Liturgy and the Ethiopian Kidase.  I came into Oriental Orthodoxy through the Ethiopian Church, but began praying at a Coptic Church out of convenience some years ago, because I know we are one Church.  Right now, I attend a Coptic Church 3 Sundays out of a month, and an Ethiopian Church about once a month.

Yeah, but do you have a Christmas tree, or are you watching "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" this holiday (on a free Starz preview)?

I'm not sure that it needs to be said, however I am watching Star Wars.

Are you by any chance from Granbury, Texas?

No, not at all. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, fwiw.
To my shame, I may have been very drunk when I wrote this.

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2016, 11:19:26 PM »

One other minor nitpick: Solomon and Makeda never married.  They just had a dalliance.  He begged her to marry him, but she rebuffed him.  There's a couple of other things too, but I don't want to go nuts here, because I think the author was well-intentioned and not one of those reprehensible tools who tries to make it out as if we're a bunch of weed-smoking cultists under the guise of "curiosity" or because "they think it would be cool".

You are ETOC also?

Verrrrry interesting.

I'm Oriental Orthodox.  I can pray the deacon's parts in both the Coptic Liturgy and the Ethiopian Kidase.  I came into Oriental Orthodoxy through the Ethiopian Church, but began praying at a Coptic Church out of convenience some years ago, because I know we are one Church.  Right now, I attend a Coptic Church 3 Sundays out of a month, and an Ethiopian Church about once a month.

Yeah, but do you have a Christmas tree, or are you watching "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" this holiday (on a free Starz preview)?

I'm not sure that it needs to be said, however I am watching Star Wars.

Are you by any chance from Granbury, Texas?

 ;D
God bless!

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2016, 03:02:59 AM »
I'm actually curious now whether there are or are not any actual textual variations in St. John the Revelator. I think I've heard of one.

What extant copies exist? Who knows?

PS. It says 11 PM EST.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 03:07:02 AM by mcarmichael »
To my shame, I may have been very drunk when I wrote this.

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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2016, 03:08:59 AM »
I forgot that I am on PST.

So, it's actually not that late in California.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2016, 04:23:25 PM »
Are there any Ethiopian Commentators of note, btw?
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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2016, 05:11:38 PM »
Are there any Ethiopian Commentators of note, btw?

It would be especially helpful if they were available in English, to me. I still haven't finished "Saying of the Desert Fathers", so I don't know if any are referenced therein, either.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 05:15:37 PM by mcarmichael »
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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2016, 07:41:39 PM »
Are there any Ethiopian Commentators of note, btw?

It would be especially helpful if they were available in English, to me. I still haven't finished "Saying of the Desert Fathers", so I don't know if any are referenced therein, either.

There is a famous commentary called the Andemta Commentary on the entire Ethiopian canon of Scriptures.  It is a treasure trove.  Only parts of it have been translated into English, and what has is rather expensive.  Good luck running it down!
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2016, 07:43:09 PM »
Are there any Ethiopian Commentators of note, btw?

It would be especially helpful if they were available in English, to me. I still haven't finished "Saying of the Desert Fathers", so I don't know if any are referenced therein, either.

There is a famous commentary called the Andemta Commentary on the entire Ethiopian canon of Scriptures.  It is a treasure trove.  Only parts of it have been translated into English, and what has is rather expensive.  Good luck running it down!

Looking forward to the day the translation is complete!
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2016, 07:48:29 PM »
Are there any Ethiopian Commentators of note, btw?

It would be especially helpful if they were available in English, to me. I still haven't finished "Saying of the Desert Fathers", so I don't know if any are referenced therein, either.

There is a famous commentary called the Andemta Commentary on the entire Ethiopian canon of Scriptures.  It is a treasure trove.  Only parts of it have been translated into English, and what has is rather expensive.  Good luck running it down!

Looking forward to the day the translation is complete!

Amen!
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2016, 10:24:50 PM »

There is a famous commentary called the Andemta Commentary on the entire Ethiopian canon of Scriptures.  It is a treasure trove.  Only parts of it have been translated into English, and what has is rather expensive.  Good luck running it down!

stupid question. looking for a commentary on a commentary... Google is your frienemy. Another joke. I apologize. :)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 10:52:16 PM by mcarmichael »
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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2016, 11:55:08 PM »

There is a famous commentary called the Andemta Commentary on the entire Ethiopian canon of Scriptures.  It is a treasure trove.  Only parts of it have been translated into English, and what has is rather expensive.  Good luck running it down!

stupid question. looking for a commentary on a commentary... Google is your frienemy. Another joke. I apologize. :)

Um, happy to help I guess?  :D
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 11:56:21 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2017, 01:29:24 PM »
I'd always heard that St. Frumentius was the first bishop of Ethiopia, but now I find out that there is a tradition that it was a St. Matthew.

Via OCA (I hope it is not an offense to mention OCA here): https://oca.org/saints/lives/2017/11/16/103313-apostle-and-evangelist-matthew

Also, 305 AD, Antonious? Is that an Ethiopian tradition, or a Coptic one? (sorry)
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Re: Conciliar Post - THE CURIOUS CASE OF ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOXY
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2017, 03:22:08 AM »
Are there any Ethiopian Commentators of note, btw?

It would be especially helpful if they were available in English, to me. I still haven't finished "Saying of the Desert Fathers", so I don't know if any are referenced therein, either.

There is a famous commentary called the Andemta Commentary on the entire Ethiopian canon of Scriptures.  It is a treasure trove.  Only parts of it have been translated into English, and what has is rather expensive.  Good luck running it down!

Looking forward to the day the translation is complete!

Me too! I know that it supposedly has some intriguing answers about the Nephelim, something I've always been very curious about. I wish I could find an English translation of that part. If anyone knows where to find it let me know.

Selam
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