Author Topic: Jerusalem Patriarchate Sacked Palestinian Archbishop, Froze Salaries of Clergy  (Read 8468 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Quote from: Mideast Monitor
Jerusalem’s Greek Orthodox Church sacks Palestinian archbishop

Patriarch Theophilos III of the Greek Orthodox Church in Jerusalem has sacked Archbishop of Sebastia Attalla Hanna, a statement issued by the office of the Archbishop said yesterday.

“Patriarch Theophilos and his Holy Gathering decided today to stop the salary of Archbishop Attalla Hanna,” the statement said, noting that Hanna is the only Palestinian archbishop in the Greek Orthodox Church....

Meanwhile, the statement noted that the salaries of other Arab clergymen were “arbitrarily stopped” by the Patriarchate of the Greek Orthodox in Jerusalem.

In addition, the statement said that the Orthodox Church took several other “punitive” measures against Arab clergymen such as moving Archimandrite Christophoros from his monastery in Jordan to Jerusalem....

This is going too far, the Greeks are destroying the mission of the Church in Palestine by these measures. It's no longer just ideal that they start to be reformed, it's becoming a necessity. We'll start losing people to the Roman and Protestant Churches, and maybe even to Islam. This is not a good sign for Middle Eastern Christians.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 11:37:29 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,081
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
This is terrifying... What do they even want by doing that?! Lord have mercy!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 12:10:19 AM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Online ICXCNIKA

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,488
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Crimean Orthodox Church-MP
The Patriarchate of Antioch should minister to the Palestinians since the Greeks in the JP obviously don't want to.
Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.—Oscar Wilde

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,322
  • It a bird, it a plane, no it's Orthogringo!
  • Faith: Orthogringo
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 12:33:32 AM by seekeroftruth777 »

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

Going back to Protestantism? Have a safe journey!
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline rakovsky

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,367
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

I think the Antiochians are not in communion with the JP hierarchs over the Qatar dispute. So you can jon Antiochians church in America if you really feel that strongly.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline rakovsky

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,367
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
It says his salary is stopped, but not that he is deposed or removed from his see or offices, right?
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline scamandrius

  • A man of many, many turns
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,377
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: DOWAMA of AANA
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

Going back to Protestantism? Have a safe journey!

I'm in communion with you Mike and as unpleasant as I find you, I haven't left.  SOT77 didn't say anything about going back to Protestantism.  Do you just assume that any objection to the action of Orthodox hierarchs means becoming Protestant?
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline rakovsky

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,367
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Yes, maybe they feel like they have separate interests from their flock and have gotten into church politics and international politics. IF their flock is largely Arab and the hierarchs are largely Greek, how else to explain this salary news?
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,322
  • It a bird, it a plane, no it's Orthogringo!
  • Faith: Orthogringo
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

Going back to Protestantism? Have a safe journey!

Look Mike, you jumping to conclusions again? I know you don't care for the salvation of my soul, and wish for me to leave Orthodoxy,  I just meant I'll probably go under Antioch, I need to pray, on this, I love my Greek Church, and I doubt most even know this is going on in Occupied Palestine. I need to pray and think about it. Never said I'm going back to Protestantism, I'd rather lose all beliefs before going back there. You should be more kind Mike, it seems Oc.Net has a "hate newcomers" hater like attitude. glad in my local area, that I wasn't treated like this at my Greek Church.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 11:05:01 AM by seekeroftruth777 »

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

Going back to Protestantism? Have a safe journey!

Look Mike, you jumping to conclusions again? I know you don't care for the salvation of my soul, and wish for me to leave Orthodoxy, I just meant I'll probably go under Antioch or something, I need to pray, and think about it. Never said I'm going back to Protestantism, I'd rather lose all beliefs before going back there.

stop begaving like attention looking drama princess, then.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,322
  • It a bird, it a plane, no it's Orthogringo!
  • Faith: Orthogringo
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

Going back to Protestantism? Have a safe journey!

Look Mike, you jumping to conclusions again? I know you don't care for the salvation of my soul, and wish for me to leave Orthodoxy, I just meant I'll probably go under Antioch or something, I need to pray, and think about it. Never said I'm going back to Protestantism, I'd rather lose all beliefs before going back there.

stop begaving like attention looking drama princess, then.

I'm not begging for attention, projecting much, with your anger all the time? This is about the Arabs being second class citizens in their own Church, not you, or I, you stupid jerk.

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

Going back to Protestantism? Have a safe journey!

Look Mike, you jumping to conclusions again? I know you don't care for the salvation of my soul, and wish for me to leave Orthodoxy, I just meant I'll probably go under Antioch or something, I need to pray, and think about it. Never said I'm going back to Protestantism, I'd rather lose all beliefs before going back there.

stop begaving like attention looking drama princess, then.

I'm not begging for attention, projecting much, with your anger all the time? This is about the Arabs being second class citizens in their own Church, not you, or I, you stupid jerk.

IIRC it was not the first time you "threatened" to leave the Church because you read something all this forum. Instead of keeping writing that drmatic response no one considers real either do it or stop writing about it.

Mike, please calm down. The fact somebody is worried about other Orthodox people and have its own spiritual struggles does not mean that this person immediately abandons the Church. Such attitude as you present in this thread is not helpful. Moreover, such polemics are not allowed in the Christian News section.

Dominika, section moderator
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 04:37:58 PM by Dominika »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline rakovsky

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,367
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
If the bishops of a church and the hierarch as a group want to do something harmful to the church, like close 90 percent of the churches on a pretext, then unless they teach a heresy, what can be done to stop them?
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Luke

  • Formerly Gamliel
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,611
  • Ευλογημένη Σαρακοστή
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Why did Patriarch Theophilos III do that?

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline William T

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,545
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.

I've been thinking you ought be governed by some ex American Baptist convert.


Anyway, this article doesn't do much to inform people of anything.  It's poorly written.  Just by this article alone I could interpret it that Palestinians simply want their own ethnic leader.

Offline William T

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,545
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

political grandstanding is a poor method or expression for anything.   Jumping from whichever patriarchate suits your taste at the moment is not what life is all about.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 01:28:49 PM by William T »

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.

I've been thinking you ought be governed by some ex American Baptist convert.

English, please.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline William T

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,545
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.

I've been thinking you ought be governed by some ex American Baptist convert.

English, please.

In my mind, I came to this conclusion: I am growing more convinced an american baptist ought follow you around and bark orders at you, and you ought follow them.

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.

I've been thinking you ought be governed by some ex American Baptist convert.

English, please.

In my mind, I came to this conclusion: I am growing more convinced an american baptist ought follow you around and bark orders at you, and you ought follow them.

My reasoning is that as the Church of  Jerusalem operates on the  teritory of 3 countries, two of which are hostile to each other it is wise to  have  leadership  from the third party so that they do not antagonize the situation further.

And what is your reasoning?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline William T

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,545
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.

I've been thinking you ought be governed by some ex American Baptist convert.

English, please.

In my mind, I came to this conclusion: I am growing more convinced an american baptist ought follow you around and bark orders at you, and you ought follow them.

My reasoning is that as the Church of  Jerusalem operates on the  teritory of 3 countries, two of which are hostile to each other it is wise to  have  leadership  from the third party so that they do not antagonize the situation further.

And what is your reasoning?

Thank you.  That's fine reasoning.  I was just bored and typed up a roundabout example off the top of my head to try and figure out what you were thinking.  Your statement was not obvious to me.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 01:59:41 PM by William T »

Offline rakovsky

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,367
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.

I've been thinking you ought be governed by some ex American Baptist convert.

English, please.

In my mind, I came to this conclusion: I am growing more convinced an american baptist ought follow you around and bark orders at you, and you ought follow them.

My reasoning is that as the Church of  Jerusalem operates on the  teritory of 3 countries, two of which are hostile to each other it is wise to  have  leadership  from the third party so that they do not antagonize the situation further.
Actually, I think that would not be bad if it was an actual third party, like Argentinians.

The problem is that the Greeks making up the hierarchy may not actually be a neutral third party, one reason being that they are closely connected to the Phanar, which is under Turkey. It means that they could tend to follow the lead of Turkey and the phanar. And Turkey is a close ally of one if those three countries you referred to. Isalmisry writes abut this kind of problem sometimes. So this can help explain why the Greek hierarchy might, because of international entanglements, work to the disadvantage of their Arab flock, say, by removing salaries of Arab bishops.

I can give more case specific examples if you are interested.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 03:36:46 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,322
  • It a bird, it a plane, no it's Orthogringo!
  • Faith: Orthogringo
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
This is a bridge too far, Idk if I can remain in a Greek Church in good conscious, if this is going on by the Greek Heirarchs to our Arab brothers, and sisters. what the point to doing this? The Muslim will gain converts by saying that they preserve Arab culture to the Palestinian Orthodox Christians, while saying that the Greeks are hostile to it. Lord have mercy! I love the Greeks in my local Church, but being in communion with heirarchs like this is unsettling  :(

Going back to Protestantism? Have a safe journey!

Look Mike, you jumping to conclusions again? I know you don't care for the salvation of my soul, and wish for me to leave Orthodoxy, I just meant I'll probably go under Antioch or something, I need to pray, and think about it. Never said I'm going back to Protestantism, I'd rather lose all beliefs before going back there.

stop begaving like attention looking drama princess, then.

I'm not begging for attention, projecting much, with your anger all the time? This is about the Arabs being second class citizens in their own Church, not you, or I, you stupid jerk.

IIRC it was not the first time you "threatened" to leave the Church because you read something all this forum. Instead of keeping writing that drmatic response no one considers real either do it or stop writing about it.

Look I didn't say I'm leaving the Orthodox Church, maybe you don't understand English in your Country, I said I feel nervous being in communion with a jurisdiction that treat our Arab brothers, and sisters as second class citizens in their own Church, do you understand that Mike?

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Look I didn't say I'm leaving the Orthodox Church, maybe you don't understand English in your Country, I said I feel nervous being in communion with a jurisdiction that treat our Arab brothers, and sisters as second class citizens in their own Church, do you understand that Mike?

The Greek Orthodox Church, which you want to leave (which is not mentioned in the text, neither you are a member of so it's kinda hard for  me to follow your "logic") is in communion with all local Churches. Leaving the communion with it is equal to leaving the Orthodox Church. so, as I  already wrote, bon voyage!  But at first you need to join it to leave it later.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 03:59:51 PM by mike »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
While I can understand being displeased with the manner in which the Greek Orthodox Church is dealing with this situation; I can't follow the logic of leaving a parish in the USA that is connected only via jurisdiction. I attended an Antiochian parish for almost a decade. I started attending another Antiochian parish that was less than ideal after we moved, and have now started attending third Antiochian parish that our family loves. By your logic I should have shunned all Antiochian parishes because of the unpleasant experience I had with the second one I attended.

Your choice to attend or not attend a parish in the US has zero impact upon how the Greek Church treats Palestinians in Jerusalem. The church itself is an institution that cares very little for PR issues like parish members leaving in "protest."

I wonder, does this effect Fr. Av Aleksandr? I think I recall that he was a priest in Isreal that worked extensively with Palestinians. I am no longer on Facebook, so I haven't checked up on him lately.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 04:03:56 PM by Quinault »

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • Global Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Patriarchate/POC
Look I didn't say I'm leaving the Orthodox Church, maybe you don't understand English in your Country, I said I feel nervous being in communion with a jurisdiction that treat our Arab brothers, and sisters as second class citizens in their own Church, do you understand that Mike?

The Greek Orthodox Church, which you want to leave (which is not mentioned in the text, neither you are a member of so it's kinda hard for  me to follow your "logic") is in communion with all local Churches. Leaving the communion with it is equal to leaving the Orthodox Church. so, as I  already wrote, bon voyage!  But at first you need to join it to leave it later.

Well, Romanians used to not have communion with the Jerusalem Patriarchate, now it's a problem of Antioch, so - does it mean these local Churches left Orthodoxy for Protestantism, Paganism or whatever?
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,322
  • It a bird, it a plane, no it's Orthogringo!
  • Faith: Orthogringo
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
While I can understand being displeased with the manner in which the Greek Orthodox Church is dealing with this situation; I can't follow the logic of leaving a parish in the USA that is connected only via jurisdiction. I attended an Antiochian parish for almost a decade. I started attending another Antiochian parish that was less than ideal after we moved, and have now started attending third Antiochian parish that our family loves. By your logic I should have shunned all Antiochian parishes because of the unpleasant experience I had with the second one I attended.

Your choice to attend or not attend a parish in the US has zero impact upon how the Greek Church treats Palestinians in Jerusalem. The church itself is an institution that cares very little for PR issues like parish members leaving in "protest."

I wonder, does this effect Fr. Av Aleksandr? I think I recall that he was a priest in Isreal that worked extensively with Palestinians. I am no longer on Facebook, so I haven't checked up on him lately.

OK this makes much more sense, unlike Mike who accuses people like a rude jerk. The fact I'm concerned about a situation where Orthodox Arabs are treated as second class, doesn't equal leaving the Church. Is Mike always a angry rude disrespectful jerk to people?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 04:49:38 PM by seekeroftruth777 »

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
I started posting on OCnet in late 2007, not too long afterward mike started posting. Believe it or not; he was actually fairly reasonable and kind at some point. If you know someone is going to jump all over you for breathing; just ignore them. You aren't obligated to interact back/forth. It isn't nearly as amusing to attack someone when they are ignoring you. As I recall I drive him bonkers too, so don't take it personally. ;D
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 05:36:06 PM by Quinault »

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,322
  • It a bird, it a plane, no it's Orthogringo!
  • Faith: Orthogringo
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
I started posting on OCnet in late 2007, not too long afterward mike started posting. Believe it or not; he was actually fairly reasonable and kind at some point. If you know someone is going to jump all over you for breathing; just ignore them. You aren't obligated to interact back/forth. It isn't nearly as amusing to attack someone when they are ignoring you. As I recall I drive him bonkers too, so don't take it personally. ;D

Good advice, so I'm going to ask what the other side, if there any to this story, it seems over the years there tensions between the Palestinian faithful, and Greek heirarchs. It would be fair to hear the Greek side.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.

I actually wouldn't mind it, if and this is an IF, they actually pastored to the people who were under them. In that case, I wouldn't care if all of our hierarchs were Hellenes.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
I started posting on OCnet in late 2007, not too long afterward mike started posting. Believe it or not; he was actually fairly reasonable and kind at some point. If you know someone is going to jump all over you for breathing; just ignore them. You aren't obligated to interact back/forth. It isn't nearly as amusing to attack someone when they are ignoring you. As I recall I drive him bonkers too, so don't take it personally. ;D

Good advice, so I'm going to ask what the other side, if there any to this story, it seems over the years there tensions between the Palestinian faithful, and Greek heirarchs. It would be fair to hear the Greek side.

I suspect that the issues are rather complex and lengthy. It would be interesting to hear some theories on the justification for these actions on their part. Yet, we also don't know how accurate the article in question is. So I would advise reserving judgement until we know more. In any case prayer is a good idea.

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Additionally, this is the Christian News area, so polemics and debate might be best served elsewhere on this topic.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Leaving the Constantinopolitan GOARCH for Antioch has nothing to do with the Church of Jerusalem jurisdictionally, except that they are both "Greek" Orthodox Churches, as opposed to "Slavic", "Romanian", "Georgian" or "Japanese". And I frankly don't find that to be a good enough reason to change jurisdictions. I'd do so over something like organs in the Divine Liturgy.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • Global Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Patriarchate/POC
Thinking about it, I am less and less convinced that hellenocentrism at the Church of Jerusalem is  exclusively  a bad thing.

I actually wouldn't mind it, if and this is an IF, they actually pastored to the people who were under them. In that case, I wouldn't care if all of our hierarchs were Hellenes.

Yeah; the good example is the Albanian Church - its head is Greek, and he actually has revived this Church after harsh communist period; but he also allowed to ordinate Albanian bishops, so it's a bit different case.
I think the Alexandrian Patriarchate is also a good example, at least in its missionary efforts in Africa, but it's also in good relations with Copts and with Orthodox Arab Egyptians too.
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline Opus118

  • Site Supporter
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,798
What is the precise situation or events that led to the freezing of salaries?

With the exception of the middleeastmonitor memo and its repetitions, I found nothing else on this matter.

It appears that some people here know what is going on and are capable of passing judgement. Hopefully they will provide the sources.
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,455
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline Samn!

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 839
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchaat van Erps-Kwerps
It says his salary is stopped, but not that he is deposed or removed from his see or offices, right?

This is because he doesn't have a see, really. All bishops in the Patriarchate of Jerusalem are basically titular and there are no diocesan structures. Met Atallah has also never been a member of the Holy Synod of Jerusalem, which includes some of the bishops as well as some monks, all chosen by the patriarch. Which is to say, the Patriarchate of Jerusalem is not at all structured like an Orthodox church.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,831
  • I am the Provisional Supreme Church Authority
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Leaving the Constantinopolitan GOARCH for Antioch has nothing to do with the Church of Jerusalem jurisdictionally, except that they are both "Greek" Orthodox Churches, as opposed to "Slavic", "Romanian", "Georgian" or "Japanese". And I frankly don't find that to be a good enough reason to change jurisdictions. I'd do so over something like organs in the Divine Liturgy.

lol

Offline Opus118

  • Site Supporter
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,798
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,455
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
If the Jerusalem Patriarchate is anything like an American HR department, then dirt (proven or not) from a year or two ago is definitely not too old to use against a troublesome employee.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 07:21:23 PM by Iconodule »
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hoplitarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,046
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.

Before you all decide to attack each other:

1) You do not know all the facts, so, stop jumping to conclusions which only hurt the Church and her faithful
2) No matter your jurisdiction/calendar, you are in the midst of the Nativity Fast....cool your engines.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Section Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,271
  • Faith: The Angelus
  • Jurisdiction: Whichever one you think is wrong
Leaving the Constantinopolitan GOARCH for Antioch has nothing to do with the Church of Jerusalem jurisdictionally, except that they are both "Greek" Orthodox Churches, as opposed to "Slavic", "Romanian", "Georgian" or "Japanese".

I was going to point this out if someone else didn't.

And even if you did leave GOARCH for Antioch because Antioch isn't at present in communion with the JP, they are still in communion with everyone else who is still in communion with the JP. So it's not a real workaround, which I think is mike's point.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,081
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
I think the Alexandrian Patriarchate is also a good example, at least in its missionary efforts in Africa, but it's also in good relations with Copts and with Orthodox Arab Egyptians too.
Alexandria even has a couple of black bishops. Also, given the revival of the Albanian Church from scratch, I imagine choosing a Greek bishop may have been a matter of necessity?
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline tcolon90

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Faith: The Way
  • Jurisdiction: + Michael - Diocese NY & NJ
Look I didn't say I'm leaving the Orthodox Church, maybe you don't understand English in your Country, I said I feel nervous being in communion with a jurisdiction that treat our Arab brothers, and sisters as second class citizens in their own Church, do you understand that Mike?

The Greek Orthodox Church, which you want to leave (which is not mentioned in the text, neither you are a member of so it's kinda hard for  me to follow your "logic") is in communion with all local Churches. Leaving the communion with it is equal to leaving the Orthodox Church. so, as I  already wrote, bon voyage!  But at first you need to join it to leave it later.
There are several canonized saints who have locally broken communion with canonical churches as a protest against that churches actions, while still recognizing that church as canonical. It's a symbolic gesture and in if other churches follow suit then sometimes actions follow. Maybe instead of PMSing over people's responses you can pull them to the side, ask them to clarify their position, and explain to them why you believe  that your position is the correct one. It's more productive and edifying but it appears your  arrogance takes priority over people's souls. St. Paul's parishioners did lots of horrible things,  and he still lovingly corrected them. Unless you think your approach is better, in which case your arrogance is a hurdle too deep to overcome.
"For where the body is, the eagles will gather."