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Author Topic: New Orleans Backlash. Your Orthodox thoughts please.  (Read 3122 times) Average Rating: 0
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Truth_or_Bust
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« on: September 03, 2005, 12:36:21 PM »

Greetings,
The sad tragedy in New Orleans is effecting us all.  One item that is getting quite a bit of airplay
 is the recent claim made by rapper Kayne West that "George Bush did not respond because he does
not like black people" or something to that effect.  Indeed, many blacks are blaming 'white america'
in general.  Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said, "If they had been White, middle-class Americans, they would
have had the ability to push the right levers to make things happen quicker." U.S. Rep. Elijah Cummings proclaimed
 "poverty, age and skin color" are deciding who lives and dies.

Foreign reporters out of Britian and Australia reported that they suffered racist threats while stuck
in New Orleans.  We all know about the armed gangs shooting at rescue vehicles and helecopters.

Here's the question.  What is the Orthodox way of handling yourself if one happens to be white and
is faced with racial threats from blacks who feel white america is the reason help did not come as quickly
as it should have?   I travel in the city often, sometimes with my family.  Do Orthodox believe in self defense
or would such an attack on me and my family be viewed as an chance to 'offer my other cheek' after I am
slapped? 

This is a serious question and I am not looking to debate who's right or wrong on 'the race issue'.
How does one handle the back lash from extremists who view the New Orleans incident as being
the fault of the "white middle class"?

Respectfully submitted,
Truth or Bust
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 12:43:24 PM »

This is a serious question and I am not looking to debate who's right or wrong on 'the race issue'.
How does one handle the back lash from extremists who view the New Orleans incident as being
the fault of the "white middle class"?

[/quote

I think the Orthodox position would be to consider the possibility that we "white middle class" Americans do have some fault for what happened in New Orleans.  We live in a 'broken' world and we should be at least aware of the inequities in our society.  We should never assume that our place in society is due to our merit. 

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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 12:58:17 PM »

If you ask me, I think Bush is definately not anti-black people.  He has had two black people as part of his advisors or whatever they are called.  The two people are Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell.  He also has a Hispanic ( I think?) as part of his party advisors (again, not sure of the right term).  These people are crying racism because they either want the attention of ACLU (I think that is the right group I'm thinking of), or because they are so desperate, they don't know what else to blame it on.  But when you truly think about it, I wouldn't call Bush racist.  The hurricane has just been so devastating that America wasn't prepared.  We never thought something like this would happen to us.  And guess what, big surprise, it did.  I don't blame Bush solely for the fact we aren't prepared enough.  It's partially his fault, but also the fault of all the other presidents too, for not setting up a program to help deal with massive disasters.  But I try not to point fingers at the president, because the presidents had just as good a knowledge as I do about whether something like this would happen. 
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 01:25:22 PM »

Quote
Do Orthodox believe in self defense
or would such an attack on me and my family be viewed as an chance to offer my other cheek after I am
slapped? 
Personally it would depend upon what kind of firepower I had!  The question was asked and that's my answer.  Orthodox in the old countries have been fighting for survival as in todays Kosovo and Bosnia and were not hesitant about using weapons if it came to that.  A soldier can use his weapon to keep himself alive!  Every police officer has the legal right to use deadly force for his own self protection and to prevent grievous body harm to another!  Every Orthodox has the moral right to defend himself and his family even if deadly force is necessary!  I speak as a soldier, policeman and an Orthodox!
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2005, 01:30:24 PM »

Personally it would depend upon what kind of firepower I had! The question was asked and that's my answer. Orthodox in the old countries have been fighting for survival as in todays Kosovo and Bosnia and were not hesitant about using weapons if it came to that. A soldier can use his weapon to keep himself alive! Every police officer has the legal right to use deadly force for his own self protection and to prevent grievous body harm to another! Every Orthodox has the moral right to defend himself and his family even if deadly force is necessary! I speak as a soldier, policeman and an Orthodox!

What he says!
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2005, 01:44:18 PM »

The hurricane has just been so devastating that America wasn't prepared.  We never thought something like this would happen to us.  And guess what, big surprise, it did.   

One of the biggest lies of the last few days have been the claims that we never expected a disaster of this magnitude.  See the following article:

Washing Away

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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2005, 03:05:32 PM »

Jennifer,

Quote
One of the biggest lies of the last few days have been the claims that we never expected a disaster of this magnitude.  See the following article:

And this...

Iraq War Splurge Hits Home at 230 kph

This was not a surprise at all, yet for obvious reasons there is an interest in portraying it this way.

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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2005, 03:46:29 PM »



This is a serious question and I am not looking to debate who's right or wrong on 'the race issue'.
How does one handle the back lash from extremists who view the New Orleans incident as being
the fault of the "white middle class"?

Respectfully submitted,
Truth or Bust


I can't make a connection between the "white middle class" and these animals murdering, raping women at gunpoint, looting plasma TVs, and marching in armed gangs. Is it a question of poverty? Of class division? Look at the response after the Tsunami.

But some view the response to those disasters more favorably than the lawless aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. "I am absolutely disgusted. After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering," said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, as he watched a cricket match in Colombo, Sri Lanka. "Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is." -reuters

The white middle class has nothing to do with the response of these people. A "racist" America has nothing to do with a slow response to giving aid in New Orleans. I've even heard some speculation that there was talk of a possible terrorist connection to a dam being destroyed in New Orleans. Because of this, the Federal government was reluctant to send in hordes of people who may just have been slaughtered by a second, larger attack. Who knows though.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 03:47:11 PM by Bogoliubtsy » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2005, 07:56:53 PM »

I can't make a connection between the "white middle class" and these animals murdering, raping women at gunpoint, looting plasma TVs, and marching in armed gangs.

Reflect on this- why can't you make the connection? Is the difference between "white middle class" and "these animals" merely incidental or is it the result of systemic problems? Is the difference between Indonesian society's local response to the tsunami and American society's local response to the crisis merely the result of incidental factors or systemic ones?
I would say the problem is systemic, for example:
Quote
At midday Friday, the National Guard's evacuation of the Superdome was interrupted briefly when buses rolled up so some 700 guests and workers from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the line.
"How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?" said Howard Blue, 22.
The 700 had been trapped in the hotel next to the Superdome. Mayor C. Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police and other officials.
National Guard Capt. John Pollard called the decision to move the Hyatt people to the head of the line "very poor."  Source.
These sorts of inequalities cannot be sustained without the fabric of a society (which claims "equality" as a constitutional right) falling apart.
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2005, 08:00:00 PM »

Jennifer,

And this...

Iraq War Splurge Hits Home at 230 kph

This was not a surprise at all, yet for obvious reasons there is an interest in portraying it this way.



Interesting.ÂÂ  All I will say is this: I won't judge any of the presidents or other leaders for this.ÂÂ  I'm not in their shoes, and I don't know what they tried to do, or what they didn't even consider.  Pointing fingers at a president won't solve the problem that we now have.  ÂÂ  
« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 08:00:34 PM by drewmeister2 » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2005, 10:33:29 PM »

Reflect on this- why can't you make the connection? Is the difference between "white middle class" and "these animals" merely incidental or is it the result of systemic problems? Is the difference between Indonesian society's local response to the tsunami and American society's local response to the crisis merely the result of incidental factors or systemic ones?
I would say the problem is systemic, for example:These sorts of inequalities cannot be sustained without the fabric of a society (which claims "equality" as a constitutional right) falling apart.

I think it's partially genetic, partially a reflection of group evolutionary strategy, and partially the result of class inequalities.  You want to talk about inequalities- how about the caste system which Sri Lanka has been subjected to for countless years. This system of inequality far exceeds anything America has been able to create. Why not the same response there?
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2005, 10:44:06 PM »

Why not the same response there?

Because Sri Lanka has never claimed in it's Constitution that all it's citizens have equal rights.

Nor is Sri Lanka the richest country in the world nor is the disparity between rich and poor as marked there as it is in "the Two Americas".
« Last Edit: September 04, 2005, 03:26:52 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2005, 01:39:36 AM »

There is a lot more to the problem of blacks in American than meets the eye.  The so called leaders of the black civil rights movement, have unfortunately been quite horrible at their - emphasing victimhood, entitlement and inciting racial tension.  The famous quote from Cry, the Beloved Country comes to mind, "My greatest is fear is that when they (the whites) are turned to loving, they will find that we (the blacks) are still turned to hating." (and that was from memory so the exact wording might be slightly off)  Most blacks are so indoctrinated that none of their problems are their own fault but the direct cause of the white man that most simply cannot take responsibility for their actions.  There have been other ethnic groups are quite a disadvantage in American society (Chineese, Japaneese, Irish etc) that have assimilated and prospered.  But none of them played the victim role waiting for reperations for their oppression.  My own family (on my Dad's side) came to America after WWII having lost almost the whole family and all of their possesions (they had a very nice farm in Poland - not wealthy but definetly not poor either).  My Grandfather could have whined how the Nazi's robbed him of a childhood, took all his possesions, almost executed him twice etc. or how because of the Soviet occupation he had to choose between exile or execution, instead he joined the American Army.  He was gratefull to be alive when he came here opposed to thinking that the world owed him something because of his hardships.  He worked all his life, and now is happily retired.  The difference between the the two situations is staggering.  Or else compare the plight of the Japanese vs. Blacks and their current position in society.  Then there are the problems that blacks that do break out of their problem laden culture face - they are often shunned by other blacks as "Uncle Tom's" as sell-outs to the whites.  So the problem is much more complex than simply this being a case of white oppresion of blacks. 
 Please do not use phrases like "most blacks." A better thing to say would be "based on my personal experience, most blacks I have met..."
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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2005, 01:00:10 AM »

Most blacks are so indoctrinated that none of their problems are their own fault but the direct cause of the white man that most simply cannot take responsibility for their actions.   

"Most blacks..."  Do you know "most blacks?"  How can you say with any certain that "most blacks" are anything?  This is blatantly racist. 


 Hasty generalizations are not necessarily racist.
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2005, 01:41:08 AM »

I would be willing to bet I have dealt with more people inside the black community than many.  I have also had to deal with many blacks trying to escape the balck community and have felt the backlash (bieng successful is treason to some apparently).  Most of what I said was drawn from a close friend of mine who happens to be black, though. 

But rather than focusing on me being a racist (I'm not a racist either), what did I say that is not generally true.  But on examining the charge of racism - My stated desire in the post was that blacks should intergrate and become sucessfull members of society like other ethnic groups.  But certain powers that be would loose a big chunk of their voteing block if blacks were taken out of their projects and the welfare checks stopped because they become functioning members of society.   
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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2005, 12:14:26 PM »

I would be willing to bet I have dealt with more people inside the black community than many.  I have also had to deal with many blacks trying to escape the balck community and have felt the backlash (bieng successful is treason to some apparently).  Most of what I said was drawn from a close friend of mine who happens to be black, though. 

But rather than focusing on me being a racist (I'm not a racist either), what did I say that is not generally true.  But on examining the charge of racism - My stated desire in the post was that blacks should intergrate and become sucessfull members of society like other ethnic groups.  But certain powers that be would loose a big chunk of their voteing block if blacks were taken out of their projects and the welfare checks stopped because they become functioning members of society.   

I don't know if you're a racist but your post was racist because it's racist to claim to speak for "most blacks."  What is most depressing here is that you can't see why your post was objectionable. 

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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2005, 12:47:25 PM »

I don't know if you're a racist but your post was racist because it's racist to claim to speak for "most blacks."ÂÂ  What is most depressing here is that you can't see why your post was objectionable.ÂÂ  

I think it is more ignorance and naivete, due to age issues, than racism.
 This was a totally irrelvant and superflous post.
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2005, 02:37:54 PM »

Quote
I don't know if you're a racist but your post was racist because it's racist to claim to speak for "most blacks."ÂÂ  What is most depressing here is that you can't see why your post was objectionable.ÂÂ  


Since you seem to be a 'women of facts' Jennifer wouldn't an out of wedlock birthrate approaching 75% in the black community be "most blacks.".... Roll Eyes Yea, that's definitely not a problem and anyone who mentions so must be a racist. The problem we have today is politically correct people like you who think they have the moral highground which gives them the power to throw around such slogans as 'racist' whenever they feel like. I totally agree with everything Silouan has said in he previous post and have seen the same things he mentions. The problem in the black community has nothing to do with their skin color, but the current culture which in my view is quite destructive. Let me also make another distinction between older generation blacks and this current generation where there is a huge gap in values and beliefs. Younger blacks for some reason seem to be degenerating more into idolizing the 'thuggish' lifestyle from everything to rap music to the way they act & dress. I don't understand this at all, especially everything the older generation went through with the civil rights movement. We now see backwards progress as a whole in the black community even though they have the freedoms that were fought for just a generation ago. I read an article not so long ago where it was talking about how older blacks now fear younger blacks in their neighborhoods. This is quite telling and should be an indication that something is wrong in a community that has those kind of problems going on. Take a look at some of the people also that call themselves 'leaders' of the black community. Who the hell would want someone like Jesse Highjack-son or Al Sharpton going around trying to represent them? Those guys are nothing but opportunist and shake down artist who have perfected the art of 'victimhood.' The NAACP, which at one time was a great organization in fighting for civil rights has also in some ways adopted the same 'victimhood' mentality which is apparant with how many of it's leaders conduct themselves. In my opinion, the majority of the problems with black youth are the messages they hear in rap music which glorifies acting criminal and treating women like they are nothing but a piece of meat. I can see why people who are actually good responsible leaders in the black community like Bill Cosby go on tirades about these idiots that are ruining their communities and everything the previous generations have fought for. Of course Mr. Cosby was labeled an 'Uncle Tom" by the usual suspects , but to those with common sense he's right on the target.
 Jesse Highjackson? Give me a break.
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2005, 04:45:55 PM »

I have given my observations from working in a job considered quite undesirable for the last two years (Grocery - time spent cashiering, recieving and night stocking) in which the majority of my coworkers have been "minorites" among them, blacks.  So yes some of my observations are thus purely subjective.

But...

Black community leaders by their own recorded words do incited a spirit victimhood and entitlement.  Politically they incite the feeling that it it the government's responsibility to help them.  They do not promote the concept of personal responsibility.

Other ethnic groups have also faced racial discrimination just as fiercely as balcks and are now highly productive members of society.  Victimhood was not the means to acheiving that. 

I will discuss those two points, as they can be objectively (more so than other points on the topic at least) researched.  But I will not enter into another discussion of my personal life, which none of you know anything about other than a date of birth. 
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2005, 01:03:14 AM »

"Most blacks..."  Do you know "most blacks?"  How can you say with any certain that "most blacks" are anything?  This is blatantly racist. 



Racist?!?!  It's not racist at all and you know it.  This is just a reactionary response to something you disagree with that you didn't take the time to think about before you typed it.  He may have made a hasty generalization, but there was nothing racist about it.
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2005, 02:44:21 AM »

this sounds bigoted but i am not too worried about that. insult me i care not.
all this race business in the hurricane issues as caused and promoted by blacks only.
blacks whine allot.
 i personally distrust them all as a race and have had many many problems from them and i am not the type to make trouble or vocalize my opinions about racial matters to people especially to blacks cause they are so prone to making a stink about anything . as a general rule of mine i avoid them as a matter of self protection, even the rich and educated ones have a chip on their shoulders.  i did them no wrong so why do they treat me poorly?  i don't know why , i just know to keep them at a distance.  they have harassed me in school, they ripped my family off in business and they are generally rude,sex crazed, amoral and very low class. the stereo types about blacks are usually 95% true is the sad part. blacks are the biggest racists there are in America. take a look at the FBI crime statistics and you will see a racial trend with crime and blacks.
all i said does it sound racist and uncaring? this is due to being around them and living in the south.  my wife is in law enforcement and she tells me things that would make think that most of them are no good. all i say is true! i will not back down about it eather. i was in the military and the blacks have more class and worked harder then most of the whites in my opinion. so some of them are good and decent people . why are most of them so bad? why. i have seen them be decent and normal. but were talking about a tiny percent of them.
 that is what ticks me off; i hold the blacks to the standard of the blacks i knew in the army! they can not tow the line!

call me a racist but i will completely disagree. blacks at times agree with me but they usually were military brats or former military or degreed with at least 4 years under their belts. i am highly opinionated about blacks and a perhaps a bit bigoted but i am not racist. i have no problem with any other races or even ethnic groups. i think blacks just have a very bad attitude about whites and life. they blame whites for all their ills, bill Cosby is a genius he says it all about blacks.
blacks clean up your act!
 we don't need this junk on our site. This is a religious site open to all races.

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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2005, 02:56:35 AM »

Since you seem to be a 'women of facts' Jennifer wouldn't an out of wedlock birthrate approaching 75% in the black community be "most blacks.".... Roll Eyes Yea, that's definitely not a problem and anyone who mentions so must be a racist. The problem we have today is politically correct people like you who think they have the moral highground which gives them the power to throw around such slogans as 'racist' whenever they feel like. I totally agree with everything Silouan has said in he previous post and have seen the same things he mentions. The problem in the black community has nothing to do with their skin color, but the current culture which in my view is quite destructive. Let me also make another distinction between older generation blacks and this current generation where there is a huge gap in values and beliefs. Younger blacks for some reason seem to be degenerating more into idolizing the 'thuggish' lifestyle from everything to rap music to the way they act & dress. I don't understand this at all, especially everything the older generation went through with the civil rights movement. We now see backwards progress as a whole in the black community even though they have the freedoms that were fought for just a generation ago. I read an article not so long ago where it was talking about how older blacks now fear younger blacks in their neighborhoods. This is quite telling and should be an indication that something is wrong in a community that has those kind of problems going on. Take a look at some of the people also that call themselves 'leaders' of the black community. Who the hell would want someone like Jesse Highjack-son or Al Sharpton going around trying to represent them? Those guys are nothing but opportunist and shake down artist who have perfected the art of 'victimhood.' The NAACP, which at one time was a great organization in fighting for civil rights has also in some ways adopted the same 'victimhood' mentality which is apparant with how many of it's leaders conduct themselves. In my opinion, the majority of the problems with black youth are the messages they hear in rap music which glorifies acting criminal and treating women like they are nothing but a piece of meat. I can see why people who are actually good responsible leaders in the black community like Bill Cosby go on tirades about these idiots that are ruining their communities and everything the previous generations have fought for. Of course Mr. Cosby was labeled an 'Uncle Tom" by the usual suspects , but to those with common sense he's right on the target.

i like what you said NACHO!
 i dispise the whole PC movement it is called soft communism. they used the same methods on the russians. the whole PC movement is run and promoted by liberal marxist communist collage professors in the collages. PC is a from of cencorship and is red as blood. the liberals and PC people are the most ignorent self loathing anti-white racists ever! PC and liberal whites hate being white skinned so they blame their own people for the blacks failings.
affermative action is anti-white racism, it says blacks can not get a job without it handed to them, by laws the dicriminate against whites. affermative action proves blacks can not do anything without help. affermative action is a crutch for blacks.  why hire a black that is less qualified then a white ? that is so hatefull against whites. all the people that are white and cry racism and are so venomously anti-racist are just self loathing and have serious mental issues.
the only racial problem in america is racist blacks and their white puppeteers that hate themselves.
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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2005, 03:44:42 AM »

The crux of what I am saying is that blacks (and other groups as well) need to take personal responsibility for themselves and not rely on the government to save them because we all know that the government won't.  The most the government will due is spend a little money to not make promises look empty and enough for politicians to keep fooling blacks into voting for them.  If promoting personaly responsibility is racsim, them I guess I am a racist. 

Thus far no one has even tried (except Keble in his second response to me) to adress a word of what I have said.  Instead I have been met with ad hominem attacks from Keble,  TomS and Jennifer (and as usual no moderators have stepped in to stop these).  So I ask honestly, what is it about my age that fascinates you all?  Before my identity under the name Silouan was widely known, I was never treated like this. 

And to one of the three who at least gave me the dignity of a real response:

Quote
It is decidedly odd that Orthodox should attempt to write of race in the south without any reference to historical context. I note by way of contrast that, to a Westerner, the chaos of the Balkans seems to exist entirely as the consequence of historical context.

I would disagree about the importance of historical context.  It is present to be sure, but it is greatly exacerbated by unscrupulous leaders to serve their own ends.  Either creating a false "us and them" mentality or greatly augmenting an existing one is how a great many hae gotten and remained in power....  but it is the political frenzy they create that drives the racism.  i.e I can saftely travel through Germany now, whereas 65 years ago that would not have been the safest thing for a Pole to do - same historical context, differnt political climate (if I am understanding correctly what you meant by historical context). 

Since you did bring up the Balkans I'll end with a quote from Patriarch Pavle that applies to this more than anything else: "If we live as people of God, there will be room for all nations in the Balkans and in the world. If we liken ourselves to Cain who killed his brother Abel, then the entire earth will be too small even for two people. The Lord Jesus Christ teaches us to be always children of God and love one another."
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StephenG
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« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2005, 05:56:15 AM »

British evacuees from a New Orleans hotel spoke of police guarding their hotel 9-5 and then withdrawing overnight repeatedly. Staff and guests had to mount patrols in order to protect themselves.

Nice to know that office hours apply to law and order?

As others have posted there is an uncomfortable contrast between the behaviour of peoples in the Far East faced with disaster and this event. But even so, there were folks why risking much continued to act as Good Samaritans. Including the 15 year old boy who took a school bus and drove relatives and friends out of New Orleans picking up others on the way. If he, a non-driver, could do why could not the Mayor or other authorities organise such an exercise?
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« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2005, 09:40:35 AM »

Quote
Nacho said:  Younger blacks for some reason seem to be degenerating more into idolizing the 'thuggish' lifestyle from everything to rap music to the way they act & dress.

We would have to ask ourselves who would benefit from the results of this "marketing campaign"?
You have rightly identified a serious threat that is destroying the social fiber of America.  The "Thug life"
is a package that is being heavily marketed to all youth.  It's not just for blacks anymore, even though it was developed from their culture.

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bripat22
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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2005, 11:04:02 AM »


 i personally distrust them all as a race and have had many many problems from them and i am not the type to make trouble or vocalize my opinions about racial matters to people especially to blacks cause they are so prone to making a stink about anything .

 Well..... that is pretty much a definition of a racist.  How can you call yourself a Christian and and Orthodox Christian and believe such things?HuhHuh?? Angry
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For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like!-

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« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2005, 11:11:52 AM »

Well..... that is pretty much a definition of a racist.ÂÂ  How can you call yourself a Christian and and Orthodox Christian and believe such things?HuhHuh?? Angry

Yeah. Sounds like the Holy Fathers talking about the Jews!ÂÂ  How unchristian!ÂÂ  Tongue

If his posts stay - you leave. Yeah, that will solve the problem (sheesh)
 The Holy Fathers were not anti Semitic. Read the work on John Chrysostom and the Jews to see why.
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StephenG
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« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2005, 11:22:11 AM »

Is the term 'racist' appropriate in terms of this forum or the subject of the thread? I question this not as a swipe but as a question. Hatred, bigotry, prejudice and such I can relate to being less attractive aspects of (fallen) human nature but 'racist', 'racism' and all the other 'isms' are social constructs and ones of recent origin at that. Their origins often lie with those who beliefs and values at best from value systems outside Orthodox Christianity and at worst actually hostile to our Faith.

One poster on another forum actually wanted answers on were all the billions of fax monies had gone and could not see why he should dip in his pocket.

Two Christian responses came to my mind immediately, the sermon about the Good Samaritan and Our Lord's response to a question set to catch Him out. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's........". Our taxes are our duty as citizens and giving alms and/or help to others is our brotherly/sisterly response to our neighbour; regardless of their race, ethnicity, class, political affliiation, age or whatever. The parable of the Good Samaritan was hard for Jews to hear and a lesson to us.

Analysing and assessing the blameworthyness or the 'work ethic' of the peoples of the coastal states is neither here no there surely for the Christian, only the need now of his or her neighbour. As citizens no doubt there will be questions but the priority must be our neighbour. Even the poorest of countries and countries not known for their friendliness to the United States, the West or, indeed, Christianity have offered help, money or other aid. Are we to be shamed as Christians on account of some belief that the victims are somehow not to be helped because it is their own fault. As I remember not even the authorities prepared for a Force 4 event.
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« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2005, 11:25:30 AM »

One poster on another forum actually wanted answers on were all the billions of fax monies had gone and could not see why he should dip in his pocket.

Exactly. It came out after the 9/11 attacks that relief organizations had received more money than they could use. The Red Cross admitted to stashing this extra money away for a future need. Well, here it is.
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« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2005, 11:34:33 AM »

Making reference to the looting and killing going on in New Orleans is not racist. Its the truth, and the truth hurts sometimes.

Sure there are some whites looting for profit, but the fact is that New orleans is a predominantly black city. To call bush a racist is very ignorant. Bush isnt the one putting 5 bullets in someones head and tying his body down with bricks, Bush isnt the one shooting at helicopters trying to evacuate survivors. Lets just call a spade a spade and admit that its groups of young black males seeking profit by looting during this catastrophe.  Whether white or black, those looters, criminals, murderers taking advantage of New Orleans during this crisis are disgusting human beings that should be shot on sight during their actions.
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« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2005, 12:09:32 PM »

 Huh Not to add my worthless two cents to this hopeless thread but got to say exactly what I am thinking - thank God the reverend Jesse Jackson and the reverend Al Sharpton are NOT ORTHODOX!ÂÂ  We would really be in trouble!!!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 12:10:54 PM by bergschlawiner » Logged
TomS
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« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2005, 12:39:36 PM »

Yeah. Sounds like the Holy Fathers talking about the Jews!ÂÂ  How unchristian!ÂÂ  Tongue

If his posts stay - you leave. Yeah, that will solve the problem (sheesh)
 The Holy Fathers were not anti Semitic. Read the work on John Chrysostom and the Jews to see why.

Oh right! The "new and improved" history. Must tow the correct line!
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« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2005, 12:42:23 PM »

Oh right! The "new and improved" history. Must tow the correct line!

Tom, if you are a truth seeker as you often state then you will not dismiss an academic book such as the one I suggested you read without giving it any thought.  That book is not a party line book. You've never even leafed through the book and probably don't even know what I am talking about Tom. Look, I have let you post pretty much anything you want over the past 3 years but could you please just be a little more respectful? Thanks.

Anastasios
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