Author Topic: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity  (Read 7174 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,481
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 09:05:40 AM »
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline benjohn146

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 476
    • Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church, Belleville, Ontario, Canada
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 10:35:55 AM »
What else to expect from the organization that splintered from Christianity almost a 1000 years ago. I am surprised that Cardinal Humbert doesn't get the same honors!  :P
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline Diego

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,441
  • Faith: Lutheran LCMS
  • Jurisdiction: Nebraska District
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 12:03:15 PM »


Is that a Jack Chick panel? The Dude is nuts crazy, Man!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 12:04:32 PM by Diego »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 12:46:29 PM »
Not surprising. The Roman Church signed a declaration of joint faith with Lutheranism regarding Sola Fide that contradicted their own Council of Trent.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Diego

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,441
  • Faith: Lutheran LCMS
  • Jurisdiction: Nebraska District
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2016, 01:12:24 PM »
Keep in mind that all the so-called Lutheran-Roman Cathoilc "dialogue" garbage is being carried on by the Lutheran World Federation. They are nearly all Quatenus Churches. MOST Quia Churches, such as my own, will have NOTHING to do with that garbage.

This ecumenical garbage is for the birds. LCMS and her sister Churches, of which there are 35 including ourselves, want nothing to do with it. This whole nonsense about "lets all sit down and talk and together water down our separate beliefs and reach a new consensus, and then sing Kum-bay-Ya" is, to put it bluntly, trash.

I have never understood the need to have Ecumenical services, and share communion with people who don't believe in the Sacrament the way we do (except perhaps in time of grave emergency), and things like that. Its frankly, quite offensive. Don't count me as one of those Lutherans who "signs ecumenical agreements with Rome."

We consider the Papacy to be evil. In fact, Luther considered it to be one of the horns, along with Mohammedanism, of THE Anti-Christ. LCMS has never retracted that position, and still maintains it formally. I am personally inclined to agree with it, myself.

So, yes, Francis can sign all the blasted documents he wants, but he'll never win the war. EVER.


Diego, in this one post you have broken at least three rules: no-polemics in the Christian News section, agitation for non-Orthodox beliefs and usage of the proper titles of the clergy (in this case, Roman Catholic pope). I am giving you 20% of warning.

Dominika, section moderator
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 01:30:10 PM by Dominika »

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,481
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2016, 01:21:36 PM »
MOST Quia Churches, such as my own... sing Kum-bay-Ya...with THE Anti-Christ. LCMS has never retracted that position, and still maintains it formally. I am personally inclined to agree with it, myself.

Interesting.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2016, 01:23:29 PM »
Quote
Its frankly, quite offensive.

Protestantism as a whole is offensive. It's offensive to the 2000 year experience of billions of believers in Christ who knew nothing of Martin Luther's conception of Christianity.

 Anyway, it's becoming more impossible for union with Rome to occur. Too bad for them.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 01:24:10 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Diego

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,441
  • Faith: Lutheran LCMS
  • Jurisdiction: Nebraska District
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2016, 01:28:41 PM »
ORTHODOX, You are illogical. You make statements with absolutely no evidence to back them up. In fact, I would go so far as to state that not only are you illogical, but that your existence serves no, or at least very little, purpose.

One more posts that is absolutely not appropriate in the Orthodox forum. You are our guest, you should respect the Orthodox believers, our practices etc. Respect it is a true Christian attitude. Since I has given you warning for another post in this thread, I am not increasing it. But you should take into consideration the fact that even one more post written in such manner may lead you to be banned from the forum.

Dominika, section moderator
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 01:35:40 PM by Dominika »

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,771
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2016, 04:34:14 PM »
ORTHODOX, You are illogical. You make statements with absolutely no evidence to back them up. In fact, I would go so far as to state that not only are you illogical, but that your existence serves no, or at least very little, purpose.

Dude... calm down.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 04:34:26 PM by Papist »
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2016, 05:08:53 PM »
ORTHODOX, You are illogical. You make statements with absolutely no evidence to back them up. In fact, I would go so far as to state that not only are you illogical, but that your existence serves no, or at least very little, purpose.

Thank you. Again, reading works wonders. I know you've never done it, but it wouldn't hurt to try at least, would it?
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Alpo

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,878
  • Why am I still here?
  • Faith: Mongol-Finnic Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Priestly Society of St. John Ireland
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2016, 05:50:51 PM »
Not surprising. The Roman Church signed a declaration of joint faith with Lutheranism regarding Sola Fide that contradicted their own Council of Trent.

No, they didn't. IIRC the panzer-cardinal stopped that.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 05:51:39 PM by Alpo »
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,926
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 05:59:04 PM »
Frankly I'd be surprised if there was any type of agreement these days, beyond vague "we should be one" type stuff, that doesn't violate some council or decision or other. Catholics in particular have made so many conciliar pronouncements that are official or darned near official, that unless I am totally missing how their theological stuffs work, would make most talk impossible, if people were going to be rigorous and treat things as inviolable. For example, from my reading, the anathemas at Trent about the Bible seem just as applicable in condemning Orthodox as it does the Protestants or questioning Catholics it was meant for, but who has ever raised a stink about that being some kind of problem in recent talks?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 06:02:03 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 06:34:32 PM »
Not surprising. The Roman Church signed a declaration of joint faith with Lutheranism regarding Sola Fide that contradicted their own Council of Trent.

No, they didn't. IIRC the panzer-cardinal stopped that.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

??
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Alpo

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,878
  • Why am I still here?
  • Faith: Mongol-Finnic Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Priestly Society of St. John Ireland
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2016, 12:48:41 PM »
Not surprising. The Roman Church signed a declaration of joint faith with Lutheranism regarding Sola Fide that contradicted their own Council of Trent.

No, they didn't. IIRC the panzer-cardinal stopped that.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

??

My bad. Apparently Ratzinger stopped the original decleration which led into some further discussions and modifications on the decleration after which was accepted.


Alpo, please remember about proper clergy titles, even for Roman Catholic priests and hierarchs. In two posts in this thread you have violated this rule.

Dominika, section moderator
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 01:47:14 PM by Dominika »
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline scamandrius

  • A man of many, many turns
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,377
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: DOWAMA of AANA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2016, 12:56:28 PM »
What else to expect from the organization that splintered from Christianity almost a 1000 years ago. I am surprised that Cardinal Humbert doesn't get the same honors!  :P

There should be a Cardinal Humbert Award.  The Vatican  could posthumously award people like Henry VIII of ENgland, John Huss, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin, Nestorius, Arius, Sabellius, and yes, even Martin Luther for splintering Christianity.
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline scamandrius

  • A man of many, many turns
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,377
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: DOWAMA of AANA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2016, 12:57:52 PM »
Not surprising. The Roman Church signed a declaration of joint faith with Lutheranism regarding Sola Fide that contradicted their own Council of Trent.

No, they didn't. IIRC the panzer-cardinal stopped that.

We refer to popes, even ex-popes, by their proper titles here on OC.net. He is referred to properly and correctly as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 12:58:55 PM by scamandrius »
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Alpo

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,878
  • Why am I still here?
  • Faith: Mongol-Finnic Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Priestly Society of St. John Ireland
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2016, 02:31:53 PM »
Not surprising. The Roman Church signed a declaration of joint faith with Lutheranism regarding Sola Fide that contradicted their own Council of Trent.

No, they didn't. IIRC the panzer-cardinal stopped that.

We refer to popes, even ex-popes, by their proper titles here on OC.net. He is referred to properly and correctly as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

Would have used that if I was speaking of the time when he was already a Pope. I should have used Cardinal Ratzinger instead of just a surnane.

No disrespect whatsoever intended. I'm just a bit lazy on using titles. Finnish culture is very informal and we tend not to use titles.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 02:33:27 PM by Alpo »
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline Ilyin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2016, 03:01:57 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2016, 03:30:01 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules. So, I tried to keep quiet... tried to. Whatever your opinion is on Pope Francis, it's clear that he's interested only in his vague 'Christian Unity' nonsense, and nothing much else. He'll do anything to get other people to come into communion with Rome.

Also, I think I agree, Vatican II was the finality in the Protestantization in the Roman Catholic Church.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 03:33:02 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2016, 03:35:59 PM »
What else to expect from the organization that splintered from Christianity almost a 1000 years ago. I am surprised that Cardinal Humbert doesn't get the same honors!  :P

There should be a Cardinal Humbert Award.  The Vatican  could posthumously award people like Henry VIII of ENgland, John Huss, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin, Nestorius, Arius, Sabellius, and yes, even Martin Luther for splintering Christianity.

If they can canonize "Saint" Mother Theresa, "Saint" John Paul II, "Saint" Thomas More and if they can canonize an anti-Chalcedonian Saint Gregory of Narek, then they pretty much can do anything.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 03:36:39 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,095
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2016, 03:42:36 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules. So, I tried to keep quiet... tried to. Whatever your opinion is on Pope Francis, it's clear that he's interested only in his vague 'Christian Unity' nonsense, and nothing much else. He'll do anything to get other people to come into communion with Rome.

Also, I think I agree, Vatican II was the finality in the Protestantization in the Roman Catholic Church.

For a guy who says he's no longer religious, you're sure religious.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Mt. 21:31 Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you."

"Our Lord will *never* stop loving us." - Fr. Michael P.

Offline Dominika

  • Global Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,276
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Patriarchate/POC
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2016, 03:50:50 PM »
I have moved this topic from Christian Newsto Religious Topics section, since the whole thread is full of polemics made by various users. Anyway, please, still respect clergy and people of other denominations in general, showing truly your Christianity. As a Serbian proverb says "You may not like me or accept what I think or what I am, but you have to respect me".

Dominika, section moderator.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 03:52:17 PM by Dominika »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2016, 03:58:15 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules. So, I tried to keep quiet... tried to. Whatever your opinion is on Pope Francis, it's clear that he's interested only in his vague 'Christian Unity' nonsense, and nothing much else. He'll do anything to get other people to come into communion with Rome.

Also, I think I agree, Vatican II was the finality in the Protestantization in the Roman Catholic Church.

For a guy who says he's no longer religious, you're sure religious.

Even as an atheist, I can identify the absurdity of the Protestant and Roman Catholic Churches. Those criticisms are independent of my specific religious standing.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Ilyin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2016, 03:59:30 PM »
"That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules. So, I tried to keep quiet... tried to. Whatever your opinion is on Pope Francis, it's clear that he's interested only in his vague 'Christian Unity' nonsense, and nothing much else. He'll do anything to get other people to come into communion with Rome.

Also, I think I agree, Vatican II was the finality in the Protestantization in the Roman Catholic Church"

Wowzer ! At last some sense is spoken on this site ! :)))

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2016, 04:15:02 PM »
Not surprising. The Roman Church signed a declaration of joint faith with Lutheranism regarding Sola Fide that contradicted their own Council of Trent.

No, they didn't. IIRC the panzer-cardinal stopped that.

We refer to popes, even ex-popes, by their proper titles here on OC.net. He is referred to properly and correctly as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
I think he should be referred to as the Cardinal formerly known as Pope Benedict.  :laugh:
Seriously though, many Catholics reject the title of pope emeritus. Now he is just a bishop. I think he could be called Cardinal bishop emeritus of Rome. Pope emeritus has never been heard of before in the Catholic church.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,107
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2016, 04:35:36 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules.

1.  I'm not sure that's an accurate interpretation of the forum rules.   

2.  Why would you, as a returning (?) Orthodox, care about the legitimacy of his election as Pope of Rome?  No one in the Roman Catholic Church seriously contests his election.  He is legitimate for them. 
OCnet is KGB.
I hail Mor Ephrem as our Secretary General.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,107
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2016, 04:37:10 PM »
Not surprising. The Roman Church signed a declaration of joint faith with Lutheranism regarding Sola Fide that contradicted their own Council of Trent.

No, they didn't. IIRC the panzer-cardinal stopped that.

We refer to popes, even ex-popes, by their proper titles here on OC.net. He is referred to properly and correctly as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
I think he should be referred to as the Cardinal formerly known as Pope Benedict.  :laugh:
Seriously though, many Catholics reject the title of pope emeritus. Now he is just a bishop. I think he could be called Cardinal bishop emeritus of Rome. Pope emeritus has never been heard of before in the Catholic church.

Even more "never been heard of before in the Catholic church" is the title "Cardinal bishop emeritus of Rome".  "Pope Emeritus" at least makes some sense. 
OCnet is KGB.
I hail Mor Ephrem as our Secretary General.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2016, 04:46:41 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title and I was mistaken, I should have said Cardinal Archbishop Emeritus. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 04:49:34 PM by servulus »

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,107
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2016, 04:49:03 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious. 
OCnet is KGB.
I hail Mor Ephrem as our Secretary General.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2016, 04:50:46 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious.

You're correct it should have been Cardinal Archbishop.

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2016, 04:54:58 PM »
He's pope because he's the bishop of Rome. Pope isn't some extra class of holy orders.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,256
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2016, 04:59:59 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title and I was mistaken, I should have said Cardinal Archbishop Emeritus. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Except that Pope Emeritus Benedict is not a Cardinal.  He stopped being a Cardinal when he was elected Pope.  It would be like, then, a man being elevated from Associate Professor to Professor, and subsequently retiring, being termed an Associate Professor Emeritus. 

Also, saying "Cardinal [whatever] Emeritus" would be roughly as novel as "Pope Emeritus."  The only two living former Cardinarls are men who were elected Pope (Pope E. Benedict and Pope Francis).
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2016, 05:07:47 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title and I was mistaken, I should have said Cardinal Archbishop Emeritus. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Except that Pope Emeritus Benedict is not a Cardinal.  He stopped being a Cardinal when he was elected Pope.  It would be like, then, a man being elevated from Associate Professor to Professor, and subsequently retiring, being termed an Associate Professor Emeritus. 

Also, saying "Cardinal [whatever] Emeritus" would be roughly as novel as "Pope Emeritus."  The only two living former Cardinarls are men who were elected Pope (Pope E. Benedict and Pope Francis).
I see what you mean. However, a bishop emeritus is still a bishop and can still act as a bishop. Pope Benedict is no longer a pope and can't do pope things. This has caused some confusion as to what his current role is. Archbishop Ganswein has caused a stir with suggesting that Pope Benedict didn't intend to resign the entire papacy. If this were true there would be a kind of duel papacy.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 05:09:39 PM by servulus »

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,107
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2016, 05:33:31 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious.

You're correct it should have been Cardinal Archbishop.

Still inaccurate.  Pope Emeritus is the best option.
OCnet is KGB.
I hail Mor Ephrem as our Secretary General.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,107
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2016, 05:45:12 PM »
However, a bishop emeritus is still a bishop and can still act as a bishop. Pope Benedict is no longer a pope and can't do pope things.

Depends on what you mean by "can still act as a bishop".  He can't exercise jurisdiction, but he can still perform sacramental ministries (e.g., ordinations, confirmations, consecration of churches, etc.) as long as he has permission to do so.

How is this different from a "Pope Emeritus"?  He can't do anything requiring jurisdiction (i.e., "pope things"), but can still perform other ministries as long as he has permission to do so. 

Whatever confusion the "Pope Emeritus" terminology may present seems, to me, to be merely "on paper".  The man walks around the Vatican wearing a white cassock and is addressed by the current Pope as "Your Holiness", but I don't think anyone doubts who is in charge.     
OCnet is KGB.
I hail Mor Ephrem as our Secretary General.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,256
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2016, 05:59:16 PM »
However, a bishop emeritus is still a bishop and can still act as a bishop. Pope Benedict is no longer a pope and can't do pope things.

Depends on what you mean by "can still act as a bishop".  He can't exercise jurisdiction, but he can still perform sacramental ministries (e.g., ordinations, confirmations, consecration of churches, etc.) as long as he has permission to do so.

How is this different from a "Pope Emeritus"?  He can't do anything requiring jurisdiction (i.e., "pope things"), but can still perform other ministries as long as he has permission to do so. 

Whatever confusion the "Pope Emeritus" terminology may present seems, to me, to be merely "on paper".  The man walks around the Vatican wearing a white cassock and is addressed by the current Pope as "Your Holiness", but I don't think anyone doubts who is in charge.     

Absolutely.  Especially because, regardless of how a handful might try to portray him, there's some evidence (chiefly an Italian journalist who claims Pope E. Benedict told them this) that the Pope E. wanted to be referred to just as 'Father Ratzinger." 

Now, whether or not that's true, that's essentially how he's acted since resigning as Pope.  He's done practically nothing in public since giving up his office. 
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2016, 06:29:31 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious.

You're correct it should have been Cardinal Archbishop.

Still inaccurate.  Pope Emeritus is the best option.

Not inaccurate, He is a Cardinal Archbishop. He is not a pope. I think you are making the papacy more than what it is.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2016, 06:35:08 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules.

1.  I'm not sure that's an accurate interpretation of the forum rules.   

2.  Why would you, as a returning (?) Orthodox, care about the legitimacy of his election as Pope of Rome?  No one in the Roman Catholic Church seriously contests his election.  He is legitimate for them.

I disagree. I think if you read Roman Catholic canon law, he's illegitimate according to that canon law. He's most certainly illegitimate according to Orthodox canons.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2016, 06:40:58 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules.

1.  I'm not sure that's an accurate interpretation of the forum rules.   

2.  Why would you, as a returning (?) Orthodox, care about the legitimacy of his election as Pope of Rome?  No one in the Roman Catholic Church seriously contests his election.  He is legitimate for them.

I disagree. I think if you read Roman Catholic canon law, he's illegitimate according to that canon law. He's most certainly illegitimate according to Orthodox canons.
As far as I know there are know bishops who reject that he is pope. Even his opponents. If the entire hierarchy accepts that he is the bishop of Rome then he is.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 06:41:37 PM by servulus »

Offline Charles Martel

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,805
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,926
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2016, 08:34:06 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules.

1.  I'm not sure that's an accurate interpretation of the forum rules.   

2.  Why would you, as a returning (?) Orthodox, care about the legitimacy of his election as Pope of Rome?  No one in the Roman Catholic Church seriously contests his election.  He is legitimate for them.

I disagree. I think if you read Roman Catholic canon law, he's illegitimate according to that canon law. He's most certainly illegitimate according to Orthodox canons.

I don't know what canons you are thinking of (1 bishop/1 city?), but the situation brings to mind the solution that was devised when two people had good claims on being Bishop of Antioch--each with support from future saints and important local churches--where both men would be considered a bishop, but that upon the death of one the other would become the single and undisputed bishop, and everyone else would agree to accept the remaining person and not try to elect yet another person. It ended up failing after St. Meletius died at the 2nd Ecumenical Council, because what some people care most about is their own faction/favored being in power, but it  came to mind when thinking two bishops having the same position at the same time.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 08:35:23 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,256
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2016, 08:42:02 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious.

You're correct it should have been Cardinal Archbishop.

Still inaccurate.  Pope Emeritus is the best option.

Not inaccurate, He is a Cardinal Archbishop. He is not a pope. I think you are making the papacy more than what it is.

No.  No he is not.
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2016, 09:49:19 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious.

You're correct it should have been Cardinal Archbishop.

Still inaccurate.  Pope Emeritus is the best option.

Not inaccurate, He is a Cardinal Archbishop. He is not a pope. I think you are making the papacy more than what it is.

No.  No he is not.
Why not? We refer to other retired cardinals by this title.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,107
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2016, 10:36:57 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious.

You're correct it should have been Cardinal Archbishop.

Still inaccurate.  Pope Emeritus is the best option.

Not inaccurate, He is a Cardinal Archbishop. He is not a pope. I think you are making the papacy more than what it is.

OK friend, I disagree entirely but whatever.  :)
OCnet is KGB.
I hail Mor Ephrem as our Secretary General.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,107
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2016, 10:38:02 PM »
There is nothing surprising about any of this at all. "Pope" Francis is a liberal Protestant so it is just as well that he should honour his master Martin Luther.

That's why I would call him Antipope Francis, but apparently we cannot reject the Pope's legitimacy on this forum without breaking the forum rules.

1.  I'm not sure that's an accurate interpretation of the forum rules.   

2.  Why would you, as a returning (?) Orthodox, care about the legitimacy of his election as Pope of Rome?  No one in the Roman Catholic Church seriously contests his election.  He is legitimate for them.

I disagree. I think if you read Roman Catholic canon law, he's illegitimate according to that canon law.

How so?

Quote
He's most certainly illegitimate according to Orthodox canons.

Whether or not that is the case, that wasn't my point. 
OCnet is KGB.
I hail Mor Ephrem as our Secretary General.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline RaphaCam

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,478
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2016, 10:42:18 PM »
We've been having antipopes for pretty long...

Diego, don't take other people or even yourself too seriously on the internet.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 10:42:48 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,256
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2016, 11:11:37 PM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.

Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious.

You're correct it should have been Cardinal Archbishop.

Still inaccurate.  Pope Emeritus is the best option.

Not inaccurate, He is a Cardinal Archbishop. He is not a pope. I think you are making the papacy more than what it is.

No.  No he is not.
Why not? We refer to other retired cardinals by this title.

The only two living former Cardinals are Pope Emeritus Benedict and Pope Francis.
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2016, 03:52:16 AM »
Bishop emeritus is a common title. He's the former bishop of the diocese of Rome. So I think Bishop emeritus applies. I was Catholic during the resignation and the title was a little controversial.


Can you be "Bishop of Rome" without being "Pope"?  Anyway, it was the "Cardinal bishop" part that was especially egregious.

You're correct it should have been Cardinal Archbishop.

Still inaccurate.  Pope Emeritus is the best option.

Not inaccurate, He is a Cardinal Archbishop. He is not a pope. I think you are making the papacy more than what it is.

No.  No he is not.
Why not? We refer to other retired cardinals by this title.

The only two living former Cardinals are Pope Emeritus Benedict and Pope Francis.
Ok. I'm just not sure Pope Benedict is not a Cardinal because he became Pope.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 03:54:19 AM by servulus »

Offline servulus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2016, 04:36:44 AM »
When I said retired Cardinals I meant having resigned from their diocese not retiring from being Cardinals. I now realize I was being unclear. Sorry.

Offline eddybear

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,097
  • Faith: Orthodox, awaiting Chrismation
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Sourozh
Re: Pope Francis Reaches Out To Honor The Man Who Splintered Christianity
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2016, 11:00:10 AM »
...... don't take other people or even yourself too seriously on the internet.  ;)

About time we started POTM nominations again!