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Author Topic: The view of Katrina response from Greece  (Read 4839 times) Average Rating: 0
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Nacho
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« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2005, 02:34:25 AM »

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It is an editorial show.ÂÂ  The no spin stuff is rhetoric and marketing, someone of your intelligence should be able to see past that.ÂÂ  And it is actually less partisan than one would expect, O'Reilly is quite critical of President Bush on many points.ÂÂ  

What I find most curious though is how Liberals have such absolute hatred of Fox News.ÂÂ  It is a good news source and a great way to see things from a certain point of view.ÂÂ  The intense hatred for it though is telling.ÂÂ  But then again I also appreciate Al Jazeera as a news source.ÂÂ  Maybe I just am a more firm believer in diversity than you.ÂÂ

Yea, Jennifer acts as if everything she states are the 'facts' and if anyone says differently then they are being 'partisan'. I don't get the whole phobia the Left has with Fox News, atleast they present many different points of view. That's a much better option than say CNN that will interview some moonbat with no counterpoint or follow up to challenge what the person is saying and they leave it at that. Could it be that these people really don't beleive in diversity of opinion? Maybe Jennifer has been hanging around too many liars, I mean lawyers... GrinÂÂ  I can just about garauntee you if she spewed some of the same stuff she writes on this board at the place I bartend at all the patrons would look at her like a moonbat. I have my ear pretty much to the 'common man' and more than 9 out of 10 would agree with what I have said here. Actually, most of my patrons that I have heard so far have expressed views more extreme than myslelf in regards to Katrina puting most of the blame on the people that didn't get out and the wingnut mayor of NO. I'm sure all these common folk would be branded with some kind of 'slogan' such as right wing fundamentalist or protestant extremist by her. Maybe they have been watching too much Fox News and listening to talk radio.... Roll Eyes

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One could argue that you are just as misled as Nacho; of course only on a different path.ÂÂ  Fox News is a business.ÂÂ  They found a niche that wasn't being filled - centrist to conservative news media - and marketed it, making money in the meantime.ÂÂ  

Honestly, what is so evil about Fox other than it tends to have a conservative bias?  How is that any worse than say Dan Rather or CNN?  For me being such an angry young man (to use your words) - YOU seem to feel quite angry about this.  I guess it comes down to me believing in diversity and free speech.  ÃƒÆ’‚Â
Posted on: Yesterday at 12:05:27 AMPosted by: JenniferÂÂ  


Thanks for pointing out Jen's blunders, but I still don't get why my stance is wrong? While everyone was having their cryfest earlier and blaming Bush for not showing up the minute after the storm hit to wave his magic wand and make all the problems go away; all I maintained was that multiple failures occurred at the local level which could have alleviated most of the problems we are seeing now. Nope, all I saw here was allot of unfair criticism and not a peep out of anyone about the problems I cited earlier that happened at the local & state level. I think my approach was pretty fair to say the least. The feds also should get some of the blame for their slow response after the facts were known and the devastation realised.

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Next thing we're going to be reading is that the current administration caused the hurricane as well; actually, I already have read this by those who criticize the administration's environmental policy. The bottom line is that we love to lay blame at people's feet, even when there is none; and if it's politically advantageous, watch out. Even had the local/state/federal government thrown more money into flood control in New Orleans, it probably wouldn't have helped; nearly all the flood control in New Orleans was focused on the river, this disaster was caused by the lake, the reason more effort was not put into protecting the city from flooding from the lake was that it has not been viewed as a significant threat, and only under very unique situations was it even possible; so had a couple billion more been thrown into flood prevention, it probably wouldn't have even helped.

Of course, everyone here is caught up in the emotionalism, it's a favourite tool for politicians to use to gain the support of the less intelligent elements of society (one of the greatest problems with democracy). Let's sit back and think about this rationally; yes, we could pour $100 billion tax dollars a year into disaster prevention and relief, but this would be utter foolishness because our current budget is more than enough to deal with the overwhelming majority of disasters; this, however, is a once in a century disaster, it's not something that is practical to plan for, you just hope it doesn't hit you, and if it does, you clean things up afterwards, and even if we wasted $100 billion a year (in relative terms) for the last century preparing for this disaster, and five times a year shut down every city that a hurricane might hit, costing the economy hundreds of billions more, what would we have gained? We Might be three days ahead of schedule at the most, there may be a few less people in the danger zone, though unless you are going to summon the militia and force the citizens of the city out at gunpoint for every potential threat, you'd still have tens of thousands who stayed behind in the city.


Thanks GiC for the common sense you have demonstrated. In an earlier post someone was whimpering about it's Bush's fault because he supposedly cut funding for levee projects. That's the typical modus operandi of the moonbats that sit around twitling their thumbs coming up with such crazy theories. Now to these people, huge cuts really mean that instead of a bureaucracy or project growing by 8% or more on an annual basis, it may get bumped down a point or two in the following years budget. They scream "evil republicans are cutting program's", but to date hasn't Bush been one of the biggest spending Presidents when it comes to such things? I guess these people think we have an endless supply of money and resources, that is as long as it's coming from that far away place we call Washington DC... Roll Eyes

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I would assume he hasn't been down there because there is no way he can have guaranteed security.  People are walking around with guns everywhere.  He could be killed very easily.  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚Â
Posted on: September 03, 2005, 04:09:08 PMPosted by: SilouanÂÂ  

Well actually according to some people in the 'black community' he's a racist that doesn't care about people of color. I think Jesse Highjack-son has already chimed in and in so many words said so. Bush extends hand and gives initial 10 billion, aid etc., they take money and aid from hand and at the same time curse and call him a 'racist' (of course the ones that use such tactics). I don't know why he goes out of his way everytime to please people like Jackson & Sharpton who have had nothing but contempt for him.

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The biggest failure occurred at the federal level because the federal government is government that had the best opportunity to help in this kind of a catastrophe.ÂÂ  Louisiana is a poor state.ÂÂ  It's one of the numerous 'welfare' red states, i.e. gets more from the federal government than it pays in taxes.ÂÂ  New Orleans is a poor city.ÂÂ  It can't even afford to educate its children.ÂÂ  Neither government could ever have had the means to handle this kind of a disaster.ÂÂ  

Jennifer, sorry but you are mistaken here. The federal government did it's job when it told the mayor of NO on Saturday to issue an mandatory evacuation. It was then up to the mayor to follow the cities guidelines on what they needed to do to get the remaining citizens of the city to a safe place. The mayor didn't do anything and sat on his @ss until it was too late. I'll post a picture of the hundreds of school buses that could have been used but were not. Incidentally, these buses were located only a few miles away from the superdome. Here's the problem I have with the local and state officials:

The mayor...
*Did not follow the New Orleans Emergency Disaster Plan;
*Wrung his hands over whether to make the evacuation mandatory until too late;
*Failed to utilize hundreds of city-owned buses to evacuate thousands of residents;
*Evacuated high-profile visitors while his city's citizens were suffering;
*Spent most of his time blaming President Bush rather than leading;
*Was emotional and irrational in a radio interview, adding to the chaos in his city.

The Governor...
*Provided no leadership whatsoever in this crisis;
*Refused Bush Administration's request for a federal takeover of the evacuation;
*Admitted Saturday, "We did not have enough resources here to do it all...;
*Yet failed to request additional guardsmen from neighboring states;
*Failed to mobilize the Louisiana National Guard before Katrina's landfall;
*Failed to take available firefighting resources as fires broke out in New Orleans;
*Her La. Homeland Security director refused to allow Red Cross into New Orleans;
*Blamed President Bush when she should have been leading;
*Was emotional and cried on television, hardly a portrait of strong leadership.


---So put that in your pipe and smoke it... Cheesy
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« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 02:36:56 AM by Nacho » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2005, 02:42:07 AM »

Many of the posts in this thread have been extremely uncharitable. If people can't discuss the perceived flaws in a person's argument without making personal attacks then I will quite happily lock this thread and put all the usual suspects on a one day suspension so you can cool down a bit.

We are adults after all. Can't we at least behave like we have developed a bit more maturity since our teens.

If the tone in the thread hasn't changed when I next check in a few hours time, I will start suspensions.

Your "friendly" global moderator.
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« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2005, 02:50:39 AM »

Many of the posts in this thread have been extremely uncharitable. If people can't discuss the perceived flaws in a person's argument without making personal attacks then I will quite happily lock this thread and put all the usual suspects on a one day suspension so you can cool down a bit.

We are adults after all. Can't we at least behave like we have developed a bit more maturity since our teens.

If the tone in the thread hasn't changed when I next check in a few hours time, I will start suspensions.

Your "friendly" global moderator.

You know that you will have to come in couple of hours and close it anyway... people do not learn...

I reckon you should lock not just this thread but all of us for couple of days....

Sometimes its just shamefull....
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« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2005, 03:43:34 AM »

I recommend everyone take a look at the most recent entry in Iacobas' blog today
http://www.minorclergy.evlogeite.com/
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« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2005, 05:52:19 AM »

Come gather round people wherever you roam
And admit that the waters around you have grown
And accept it that soon you’ll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth saving
Then you’d better start swimming or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times, they are a changing

Come writers and critics who prophesize with your pens
And keep your eyes open, the chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon, the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no telling who that it’s naming

Oh the loser now will be later to win
For the times, they are a changing

Come senators, congressmen, please head the call
Don’t stand in the doorway, don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt will be he that has stalled
The battle outside raging will soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times, they are a changing


Come mothers and fathers all over this land
And don’t criticize what you can’t understand
Your sons and your daughter are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly aging
Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend a hand
For the times they are a changing

The line, it is drawn, the curse, it is cast
The slow one will later be fast
And the present now will soon be the past
The order is rapidly fading
The first one now will later be last
For the times, they are a changing
« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 09:31:39 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2005, 01:01:35 PM »

Reading this thread, the written media and listening to the broadcast media there appears to be as many views as there are commentators.

I listened to some young British women survivors only repatriated today talk of their experiences in the 'Dome. Of being protected, given water and food by kind people who had little enough for themselves but who gladly shared it and whose kindness, courtesy and care could not be underestimated. They said there were terrible things going on but that this was carried out by a tiny minority wreaking havoc and in a situation were there was no-one to enforce law and order. But their abiding memories were the kindnesses afforded to them, strangers, in dreadful circumstances.

What also becomes clear through a variety of sources, including posters here who I clearly have taken issue with, is a total breakdown of effective planning, leadership and response at every level local, state and Federal.

Some Britons complained of inadequate support from British Consular staff who apparently asked the Louisiana Governor every day for permission to enter the city to render aid to their nationals but who were refused that permission each and every time.

Also striking is the aid asked for and being sent from here, there and yonder. 1/2 million military emergency food packs being flown out now to Little Rock, Arkansas, and to followed by 12 more such flights. Offers from Cuba, Iran, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and many ofthers. Some I understand have been refused but at least in a desperate hour of need rivalries, hatreds and differences were forgotten.
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« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2005, 02:29:36 PM »

Nacho,

As usual, I tend to agree with you.

I love fox news and think that it has done a wonderful job at covering the recent disaster. (Shepherd Smith did a great job going over there and reporting right after the disaster....great job)

I think that after 9-11, the left learned it's lesson never to unite again during a disaster because if a conservative is in power it will probably score political points for the conservatives. I think that this is really sad. With that being said, I don't like republicans or democrats; however, I think that over all, the democrats are the most hostile towards religion and people of faith.

Whether one is "liberal" or "conservative" , we need to genuinely love people from the heart no matter what. This is our call as Orthodox Christians.

Not to change the subject, but is any one here familiar with Elder Cleopa of Romania??? I am reading a book on him now, and I am wondering how things are going with his consideration for being glorification as a saint?Huh?


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« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2005, 03:50:41 AM »

I'll repost this from my previous post for Jennifer as I do eagerly await her reply.  And she ought to reply since she has slammed Fox News and given no explanation other than it disagrees with her viewpoint.

"Honestly, what is so evil about Fox other than it tends to have a conservative bias?  How is that any worse than say Dan Rather or CNN?  For me being such an angry young man (to use your words) - YOU seem to feel quite angry about this.  I guess it comes down to me believing in diversity and free speech. "
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« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2005, 09:45:37 AM »

Broken wings
By Pantelis Boukalas

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, the American president finally landed in the hurricane-battered states of his country. George W. Bush tried to project a father-figure icon — the image of a leader who interrupts his vacation to reach out to the wretched people of this world — which is quite a common practice among political leaders of all genres. Sleeves rolled up, but wings broken, Bush’s imperial image was tarnished. No mirror is clearer or more revealing than the murky waters and the mud that a severe natural disaster leaves behind — yet one that had been forecast.

If the terrorist attacks in New York four years ago were said to mark the end of innocence (if that ever existed), now the thousands of dead and the hundreds of thousands of homeless signal that the illusion of the superpower has ended. An empire that fails to meet the basic needs of its citizens cannot afford to brag or feel secure.

This time, the lethal enemy did not strike from outside. It was not some evil outsider but the forces of nature and the criminal negligence of federal officials. Nature remains coldly indifferent to human feelings and constructs. It has no enemies. So the real villain must be political power, this time personified in Bush.

What the Bush administration failed to do before and after the calamity is well known. The vitriolic attacks of his fellow-Americans should be enough to remove the unruffled smugness from his face. As with the war on Iraq, the Bush administration tried to bamboozle the public. Back then it was the presumed weapons of mass destruction. This time, it was the meteorologists who supposedly failed to warn people about the magnitude of the threat. If Iraq is too far on the map for the average American, New Orleans is part of everyone’s reality. People can neither seek a religious explanation for the catastrophe nor close their eyes to it.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_columns_100020_06/09/2005_60442

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« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2005, 10:16:49 AM »

I've probably written this about a dozen times here, but I think all of the right vs. left, conservative vs. democrat stuff loses the point.

Anytime, someone (anyone) becomes so polarized by partisan politics, they lose sight of "THE TRUTH", something as Orthodox Christians, we should be most concerned about.

Podromos, Ozgeorge and S-V, thank you for being the voice of reason...

Let me explain a bit.ÂÂ  My feeling on George Bush vs. Bill Clinton have NO impact on how I see this or any other issue.

If you ask me whether I think the federal response has been adequate here, I'll tell you 100% NO.ÂÂ  However, that is not an indictment of Bush and his administration.ÂÂ  That is just based on this one event.

I was watching the Mclaughlin Group this Sunday and by in large everyone agreed that Bush bungled this one (to a degree).ÂÂ  Even Pat Buchanan.ÂÂ  I think that is a pretty fair assessment.

At the same time, the "Bush Bashers" here, should equally be ready willing and able to recognize the bungling of the Clinton administration vis a vis Orthodox lands, such as Kosovo and Bosnia.

To me, bad policy is bad policy, irrespective of political affiliation.ÂÂ  At the end of the day, I pray for the people in New Orleans, Miss, Alabama and all others affected, as I pray for all of the Orthodox Christians suffering in the Balkans.ÂÂ  I refuse to be drawn into the nonsensical dem vs. GOP debate, failure to acknowledge what is obviously bad, is just disingenuous.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 10:18:21 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2005, 10:40:08 AM »

The question is not so much what did the President and his administration do or fail to do. The question is: what did YOU do? It's all well and good to point fingers at others (and the manner in which various television networks are demonstrating their political agendas now is sickening in the extreme) but remember that three fingers are pointing squarely back on you. So, if you have not yet made a contribution to alleviate the suffering of the many innocent victims of this horrific storm, maybe it's time to be silent and put your money where your mouth is? Just a thought.  Roll Eyes

And before you ask... yes... we have made our financial contribution.

Regards
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« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2005, 11:41:49 AM »

I watched, and then me and my non-smoking sister went outside and drank a beer and had several cigs...  It upsets me just thinking about whats going on down there.
And the fact that Bush hasn't even been down there yet!!!  He was right there in NYC after 9-11.  It's been days now.  And the way the recovery & rescue is disorganized..  If we could drop food in Vietnam back in the day, for gosh sakes, why can't we drop our own people water now???

9/11 and New Orleans are not comparable. NYC wasnt totally destroyed like New Orleans is. Bush visiting NO would cause more problems then it would solve right now. Secondly, you obviously are ignorant of the way the US govt works.

1. The mayor is in charge of the New Orleans in concern of a crisis.

2. Then it goes to the Governor(national guard is her own military)

3. Then if they fail, the Federal government is to take over at the request of the governor(Its called the US consititution and States Rights, read it sometime)

Why dont you mention that the Mayor of New Orleans and Governor of Louisiana REFUSE to relinquish control to the Federal Govt? Who's fault is that? Bush? Was it also bush's fault that people are raping and killing others and stealing tv's?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 11:42:32 AM by PrinceMarko » Logged
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« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2005, 12:15:06 PM »

Sorry, no American political discussion.

Anastasios
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