Author Topic: Which denominations are truly Christian?  (Read 3725 times)

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Offline Clemente

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Which denominations are truly Christian?
« on: October 06, 2016, 06:32:08 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2016, 07:02:23 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought. 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Offline Clemente

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2016, 07:18:02 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2016, 07:27:14 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

 :-*
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Rohzek

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2016, 07:45:23 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

I'd like to nominate Clemente for the Terri Schiavo Award.

"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2016, 07:58:19 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

I'd like to nominate Clemente for the Terri Schiavo Award.



This won't end well...
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2016, 08:52:08 PM »


LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

I'd like to nominate Clemente for the Terri Schiavo Award.



This won't end well...

[Spoiler][/spoiler]

Spoiler doesn't seem to work.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 08:54:50 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Diego

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2016, 10:08:51 PM »
To be blunt, this reaches a point of almost being ridiculous. Much as I dislike Evangelicals, and I truly do dislike them, if they have an orthodox understanding of the Trinity then they ARE Christians.  Keep in mind that the term "Evangelical Lutheran" and "Evangelical Protestant" mean ENTIRELY different things. There is not a single member of one group that would consider the other to be part of the same community. In fact, an "Evangelical Protestant" would consider us FAR too Catholic for his taste.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 06:34:20 AM by Diego »

Offline Clemente

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2016, 02:07:03 AM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

I'd like to nominate Clemente for the Terri Schiavo Award.



This won't end well...

Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

Offline Diego

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2016, 06:37:07 AM »
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

So I am NOT the only one who found that whole concept completely insane. Good to know.

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2016, 07:44:33 AM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

I'd like to nominate Clemente for the Terri Schiavo Award.



This won't end well...

Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

At least it wasn't in green text
I am a demonic servant! Beware!

Offline Rohzek

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2016, 10:11:29 AM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

I'd like to nominate Clemente for the Terri Schiavo Award.



This won't end well...

Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

I'm actually mocking you, because it is clear that you've been going after Mor and smack talking these forums for a while now. You're throwing a pity party because of some convo over a week ago about homosexuals.

Besides, consider yourself fortunate, the image link is now dead apparently.

Face it son, you're mad cuz you're bad.
"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2016, 12:08:33 PM »
Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

Wait, so you're saying that the evangelicals come from the Roman Catholics, who, we all know, were founded by the Masons, so you're accusing Nestorians of being Mason spies and you're saying Genghis Khan was controlled by the Illuminati? WOW that's a laugh LOL! Have you told Captain America about this?

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Come look at my lame blog

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2016, 12:08:42 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.

Because the Evangelicals could never trace their roots to the Assyrian Church of the East. But they can trace their lineage to Roman Catholics, who have absolutely nothing in common with the Assyrian Church. Oh, that is funny! Wow, LOL!

I'm sure your declaring Evangelicals "not Christian" will send shock waves around the world, given your status as OC.net moderator. Does Billy Graham know?

I'd like to nominate Clemente for the Terri Schiavo Award.



This won't end well...

Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

You didn't question it, or else I would've given you my reasons. 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2016, 12:29:29 PM »
Evangelicals are vastly semi-Nestorian anyway lol
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2016, 12:43:03 PM »
To be blunt, this reaches a point of almost being ridiculous. Much as I dislike Evangelicals, and I truly do dislike them, if they have an orthodox understanding of the Trinity then they ARE Christians. 

What is "an orthodox understanding of the Trinity"?  And when did that alone become the sine qua non of what makes someone Christian?  Where is it in the Bible, for example? 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline FinnJames

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2016, 01:06:01 PM »
To be blunt, this reaches a point of almost being ridiculous. Much as I dislike Evangelicals, and I truly do dislike them, if they have an orthodox understanding of the Trinity then they ARE Christians. 

What is "an orthodox understanding of the Trinity"?  And when did that alone become the sine qua non of what makes someone Christian?  Where is it in the Bible, for example?

At least in some Orthodox jurisdictions it is the case that catechumens who were baptised in the "Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" are at least considered Christian enough to be accepted into the Orthodox Church by chrismation without re-baptism. I think this excludes Quakers, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and a few others from "true Christianity", at least as it is understood in the Orthodox Church.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 01:09:12 PM by FinnJames »

Offline Svartzorn

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2016, 01:08:40 PM »
This wouldn't be a protestant/evangelical thread without Diego mentioning the lutherans out the blue.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2016, 01:10:57 PM »
Much as I dislike Evangelicals, and I truly do dislike them, if they have an orthodox understanding of the Trinity then they ARE Christians.

 :D Do you have any idea to whom you are talking to? We've been blaming the West for heretical understanding of the Trinity for last thousand years.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 01:11:36 PM by Alpo »
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2016, 01:17:12 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

Most Evangelicals probably wouldn't consider the EO/OO to be Christian.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2016, 01:27:02 PM »
To be blunt, this reaches a point of almost being ridiculous. Much as I dislike Evangelicals, and I truly do dislike them, if they have an orthodox understanding of the Trinity then they ARE Christians. 

What is "an orthodox understanding of the Trinity"?  And when did that alone become the sine qua non of what makes someone Christian?  Where is it in the Bible, for example?

At least in some Orthodox jurisdictions it is the case that catechumens who were baptised in the "Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" are at least considered Christian enough to be accepted into the Orthodox Church by chrismation without re-baptism.

Sure.  But defining "Christian" exclusively in terms of "orthodox understanding of the Trinity" is, IMO, insufficient. 

For example, Roman Catholics baptise "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", but they also profess the Creed with Filioque.  Is "Filioque" acceptable within an "orthodox understanding of the Trinity"?  If it is, then we are crazy for having made such a big deal out of it.  If it is not, then even RCs are not really Christian. 

When the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch, the community so-named had a Trinitarian faith, but also had apostolic succession, a hierarchical church order centered around the bishop, fidelity to apostolic teaching and to gathering together in common worship and above all in the Eucharist, etc.  I don't see those things in most forms of Protestantism.  They appear to retain some things, though with their own spin, while rejecting others.  When I consider the issue from this perspective, I have a hard time ascribing the name "Christian" to them.     
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2016, 01:34:49 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

Most Evangelicals probably wouldn't consider the EO/OO to be Christian.

Not unless some of us are filmed getting beheaded on Libyan beaches and can be co-opted.  And even then, some will argue against it. 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Diego

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2016, 01:36:08 PM »
Defining someone as non-Christian solely based on the Filioque, or solely based on the lack of Apostolic Succession, is, to be quite frank, absurd. What do you do with, for example, a Lutheran Church that has the latter and considers the former optional? It gets dumb at a certain point.

Minimally speaking, what does the Orthodox Church require for Chrismation without Baptism? That essentially is what defines a Christian. If his Baptism is valid, then he is a Christian. End of story.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 01:40:06 PM by Diego »

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2016, 01:38:39 PM »
For example, Roman Catholics baptise "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", but they also profess the Creed with Filioque.  Is "Filioque" acceptable within an "orthodox understanding of the Trinity"?  If it is, then we are crazy for having made such a big deal out of it.  If it is not, then even RCs are not really Christian.
That's very painful, as RCs are often perceived as a denomination being quite close to Orthodoxy and quite traditional in comparision to various Protestants. But yeah, both statements include the word "quite" ;)

When the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch, the community so-named had a Trinitarian faith, but also had apostolic succession, a hierarchical church order centered around the bishop, fidelity to apostolic teaching and to gathering together in common worship and above all in the Eucharist, etc.  I don't see those things in most forms of Protestantism.  They appear to retain some things, though with their own spin, while rejecting others.  When I consider the issue from this perspective, I have a hard time ascribing the name "Christian" to them.     
That's a very good point.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2016, 01:42:36 PM »
Quote
Kazakh evangelicals hailed the discovery. “Nobody can tell me that I don’t have Christian roots,” one believer told the Tandy Institute.

LOL.

Oh that is funny. Ha ha. Silly Evangelicals think they are Christians!

You know they aren't and therefore that is very funny because...you are a moderator on OC.net

To be honest, I'm not sure if I consider Evangelicals and other Protestants to be Christians.  I go back and forth on that question, but I generally lean in the "not Christian" direction.  That wasn't the reason for my reaction, however. 

It is rather ridiculous for "Kazakh evangelicals" to regard themselves as "having Christian roots" in that country based on some archaeological discoveries pointing to the presence and activity of the Assyrian Church of the East.  If they knew what that was, they would not say such things...and if I'm wrong and they would still stand by their statement, they're even more ridiculous than I thought.
I think if Arians could be considered Christians, albeit heretics, I think evangelicals and protestants fall under the Christian umbrella as well.
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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2016, 01:48:53 PM »
I think if Arians could be considered Christians, albeit heretics, I think evangelicals and protestants fall under the Christian umbrella as well.

It's possible, I suppose.  But would you extend that to, say, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses?  At least in the RC circles with which I'm aware, these two groups are considered not Christian, and I'm not sure they're alone in that opinion. 
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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2016, 01:50:49 PM »
For example, Roman Catholics baptise "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", but they also profess the Creed with Filioque.  Is "Filioque" acceptable within an "orthodox understanding of the Trinity"?  If it is, then we are crazy for having made such a big deal out of it.  If it is not, then even RCs are not really Christian.
That's very painful, as RCs are often perceived as a denomination being quite close to Orthodoxy and quite traditional in comparision to various Protestants. But yeah, both statements include the word "quite" ;)

Well, I consider RCs to be Christian.  But I was responding to this "orthodox understanding of the Trinity" business.  If that's the main thing, then we've got problems.
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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2016, 01:52:34 PM »
Defining someone as non-Christian solely based on the Filioque, or solely based on the lack of Apostolic Succession, is, to be quite frank, absurd.

Not "solely". 

Quote
What do you do with, for example, a Lutheran Church that has the latter and considers the former optional? It gets dumb at a certain point.

Yes.  We just disagree on what is "it". 

Quote
Minimally speaking, what does the Orthodox Church require for Chrismation without Baptism? That essentially is what defines a Christian. If his Baptism is valid, then he is a Christian. End of story.

Not really.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2016, 01:54:14 PM »
I think if Arians could be considered Christians, albeit heretics, I think evangelicals and protestants fall under the Christian umbrella as well.

It's possible, I suppose.  But would you extend that to, say, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses?  At least in the RC circles with which I'm aware, these two groups are considered not Christian, and I'm not sure they're alone in that opinion.
They derive from Christian roots, which I think allows them to identify as Christian. They are basically Arian anyways. I don't  think the label is as important as the content the faith they profess.
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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2016, 02:24:32 PM »
I think if Arians could be considered Christians, albeit heretics, I think evangelicals and protestants fall under the Christian umbrella as well.

It's possible, I suppose.  But would you extend that to, say, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses?  At least in the RC circles with which I'm aware, these two groups are considered not Christian, and I'm not sure they're alone in that opinion.
They derive from Christian roots, which I think allows them to identify as Christian. They are basically Arian anyways. I don't  think the label is as important as the content the faith they profess.

Don't the muslims also derive from christian roots? They're an abrahamic religion, have their share of reverence for the Theotokos and consider Christ as a prophet. Yet, they're not christian.
I think we are all trying to find a common ground here, a concept from which is possible to draw a line.
I think Mor nailed it in reply no. 20.

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2016, 02:25:28 PM »
I think if Arians could be considered Christians, albeit heretics, I think evangelicals and protestants fall under the Christian umbrella as well.

It's possible, I suppose.  But would you extend that to, say, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses?  At least in the RC circles with which I'm aware, these two groups are considered not Christian, and I'm not sure they're alone in that opinion.
They derive from Christian roots, which I think allows them to identify as Christian. They are basically Arian anyways. I don't  think the label is as important as the content the faith they profess.

How much "content" must their faith profess to be Christian? 
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Offline Clemente

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2016, 02:41:07 PM »
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

I'm actually mocking you, because it is clear that you've been going after Mor and smack talking these forums for a while now. You're throwing a pity party because of some convo over a week ago about homosexuals.

Besides, consider yourself fortunate, the image link is now dead apparently.

Face it son, you're mad cuz you're bad.
So it is your duty to mock any poster that would have the audacity of questioning your fearless leader's infallibility.

That is so cute.

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2016, 02:41:56 PM »
What constitutes Christianity? And what authority determines that?
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2016, 02:56:25 PM »
Former evangelical (and I ain't mad about it, no axe to grind), and I go back and forth on whether or not Protestants and evangelicals are Christians as well. I think some are certainly closer than others.

Evangelicals have absolutely no sacramental theology, notably of course is an absence of the Eucharist. Christ said that if we don't eat His flesh and drink His blood we have no life in us. Can a Christian have no life in them- is that ontologically possible? At least with Catholics, even the most strident Orthodox would have to agree that it's a matter of degrees: have they deviated enough that their sacraments no longer have grace? With Evangelicals, that cannot even possibly be the question when they absolutely deny that their bread and grape juice are anything other than symbols.

I used to be pretty touchy on the topic because my family, who sincerely love Christ to the best of their knowledge/ability, are all still evangelical. But the reality is, if you look at the history of the Church, if you take a big picture view of what it has always meant to be Christian and what it has looked like, then it's hard to go to a service with a light show and fog machines where people sing Lifehouse songs to God (even if it's in total sincerity) and think that they are Christian. If Orthodoxy is The Church, and being a member of it as well as living an Orthodox life is how to be a Christian, and it matters how you pray and what you do beyond what concepts you give mental assent to.... then belief in the Trinity while correct and good is just not enough.

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2016, 03:11:31 PM »
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

I'm actually mocking you, because it is clear that you've been going after Mor and smack talking these forums for a while now. You're throwing a pity party because of some convo over a week ago about homosexuals.

Besides, consider yourself fortunate, the image link is now dead apparently.

Face it son, you're mad cuz you're bad.
So it is your duty to mock any poster that would have the audacity of questioning your fearless leader's infallibility.

That is so cute.

First off, I started mocking you before you even attacked Mor. You've made several other pathetic posts in other threads, where I already mocked you. Perhaps if you weren't so gay for Mor, you'd realize that.

And I actually totally disagree with Mor on this one. It seems fairly obvious to me that Evangelicals are Christians.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 03:18:37 PM by Rohzek »
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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2016, 03:12:57 PM »
The word Christian can mean different things, as in "being a Christian", or a "Christian act of charity".
So someone could belong to a church and be counted for census purposes as Christian, but not be a believer, hence not a Christian.

So in senses some Muslims are Christians (they call Jesus "Christ" in Arabic, Masih), but in other sense they aren't.
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Offline Onesimus

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2016, 03:13:42 PM »
What constitutes Christianity? And what authority determines that?
Love that seeks unity.   The answer to both.

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2016, 03:22:39 PM »
I think the topic is silly because it mixes to different discourses which are entirely different altogether.  I believe historically EOs at least were not asking if someone is Christian but rather if someone is Orthodox. The concept of Christian is entirely separate from this discourse and has entirely different historical background and precepts. Historically we cannot separate "Christian" and "Church" but yet the topic does exactly that.

Thus when considering if this or that Evangelicak denomination is Christian we should entirely forget historical criteria. Otherwise the only answer would be "No, it's not Orthodox."
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Offline Clemente

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2016, 03:24:25 PM »
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

I'm actually mocking you, because it is clear that you've been going after Mor and smack talking these forums for a while now. You're throwing a pity party because of some convo over a week ago about homosexuals.

Besides, consider yourself fortunate, the image link is now dead apparently.

Face it son, you're mad cuz you're bad.
So it is your duty to mock any poster that would have the audacity of questioning your fearless leader's infallibility.

That is so cute.

First off, I started mocking you before you even attacked Mor. You've made several other pathetic posts in other threads, where I already mocked you. Perhaps if you weren't so gay for Mor, you'd realize that.

And I actually totally disagree with Mor on this one. It seems fairly obvious to me that Evangelicals are Christians.

Oh, so you are going from thread to thread to protect your leader.

That is so precious.

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2016, 03:31:15 PM »
I think the topic is silly because it mixes to different discourses which are entirely different altogether.  I believe historically EOs at least were not asking if someone is Christian but rather if someone is Orthodox. The concept of Christian is entirely separate from this discourse and has entirely different historical background and precepts. Historically we cannot separate "Christian" and "Church" but yet the topic does exactly that.

Thus when considering if this or that Evangelicak denomination is Christian we should entirely forget historical criteria. Otherwise the only answer would be "No, it's not Orthodox."

What exactly are you saying?  That "Christian" is not a meaningful term?  Or that "Christian" is so connected to "Church" that no one outside of communion with "Church" could legitimately claim the term?  Something else?
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2016, 03:32:14 PM »
It seems fairly obvious to me that Evangelicals are Christians.

How so?
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2016, 03:48:27 PM »
It seems fairly obvious to me that Evangelicals are Christians.

How so?

I'll take it further. I don't think Trinitarianism is necessary to be a Christian. There was a period where it appears Jerome perhaps was reluctant to consider the Holy Spirit a Divine Person. It would be too weird to consider him a Christian only after he met with John Chrysostom, who apparently convinced him on the issue. Besides, were the Arians heretics or were they infidels? I lean towards the former, which by default makes them Christian.

Setting aside the Trinitarian aspect, which most Evangelicals fulfill anyways, most if not all believe that Jesus is someone more than just a prophet. To me, that seems to be the bare minimum of what it takes be a Christian.
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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2016, 03:49:33 PM »
I think the topic is silly because it mixes to different discourses which are entirely different altogether.  I believe historically EOs at least were not asking if someone is Christian but rather if someone is Orthodox. The concept of Christian is entirely separate from this discourse and has entirely different historical background and precepts. Historically we cannot separate "Christian" and "Church" but yet the topic does exactly that.

Thus when considering if this or that Evangelicak denomination is Christian we should entirely forget historical criteria. Otherwise the only answer would be "No, it's not Orthodox."

What exactly are you saying?  That "Christian" is not a meaningful term?  Or that "Christian" is so connected to "Church" that no one outside of communion with "Church" could legitimately claim the term?  Something else?

That there are two separate discourses which are IMO both legitimate but lead into useless argument when mixed. Usually when we define "Christian" nowadays people mean that this person or institution subscribes into specific and very limited set of abstract doctrines. The set may wary from person to person or be even contradictory but the basic idea is the same. And I don't think this is the historically approach at least among EOs. It's as good as any other way defining the term but not the historical approach among us.  That is why trying to exclude Evangelicals from being Christians on basis of lacking sacramentology or anything like that is silly. It's IMO beside the point because it tries to introduce Orthodox standards to the definition of a word that is non-Orthodox in the sense that it's colloquial use was born in non-Orthodox context. Orthodox folks of course use the same word but in a very different way.
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2016, 03:51:58 PM »
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

I'm actually mocking you, because it is clear that you've been going after Mor and smack talking these forums for a while now. You're throwing a pity party because of some convo over a week ago about homosexuals.

Besides, consider yourself fortunate, the image link is now dead apparently.

Face it son, you're mad cuz you're bad.
So it is your duty to mock any poster that would have the audacity of questioning your fearless leader's infallibility.

That is so cute.

First off, I started mocking you before you even attacked Mor. You've made several other pathetic posts in other threads, where I already mocked you. Perhaps if you weren't so gay for Mor, you'd realize that.

And I actually totally disagree with Mor on this one. It seems fairly obvious to me that Evangelicals are Christians.

Oh, so you are going from thread to thread to protect your leader.

That is so precious.

Except he didn't even post in the other thread nor did you mention him.

Truly what is precious is how much of a removed- ZZ you are.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 09:24:55 PM by ZealousZeal »
"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2016, 03:53:18 PM »
Thread locked pending moderator review.

Mor Ephrem, section moderator
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2016, 09:32:35 PM »
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the surreal world of OC.net.

Where the moderators declare non-Orthodox Nestorians to be Christian, Trinitarian Evangelicals to be "non-Christian" and anybody who questions that bizzare distinction is mocked.

I'm actually mocking you, because it is clear that you've been going after Mor and smack talking these forums for a while now. You're throwing a pity party because of some convo over a week ago about homosexuals.

Besides, consider yourself fortunate, the image link is now dead apparently.

Face it son, you're mad cuz you're bad.
So it is your duty to mock any poster that would have the audacity of questioning your fearless leader's infallibility.

That is so cute.

First off, I started mocking you before you even attacked Mor. You've made several other pathetic posts in other threads, where I already mocked you. Perhaps if you weren't so gay for Mor, you'd realize that.

And I actually totally disagree with Mor on this one. It seems fairly obvious to me that Evangelicals are Christians.

Oh, so you are going from thread to thread to protect your leader.

That is so precious.

Except he didn't even post in the other thread nor did you mention him.

Truly what is precious is how much of a removed- ZZ you are.

Rohzek-

The profanity which you used is not permitted on the forum, and it is certainly not permitted for you to call another member such a word. Since this is not the first time you have been warned about profanity, I am issuing you a warning of +25 points.

If you wish to appeal this warning, you may do so by PMing me.

-ZZ, Section Moderator

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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2016, 09:38:48 PM »
All,

This is a Free-For-All section, and discussions may get a bit heated here, but please keep the Rules in mind, let's contain conflict, and if you see something that breaks the rules, report it rather than engage.

Please remain seated and keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times.

Thread unlocked.

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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2016, 01:03:43 AM »

I'd like to nominate Clemente for the Terri Schiavo Award.


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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2016, 02:07:45 AM »
Actual answer: Orthodox: however God reserves the right to deem others truly Christian, and Orthodox as not truly Christian, as He sees fit.

Oh, and also stick me in tollbooth #295.3.6.2.3 for mocking zealots in overreaction for being a former zealot for a trillion years, so that Unitarians and Hare Krishna may enter the kingdom of God before me. Lord have mercy on me. Save me, Most Holy Theotokos!
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Which denominations are truly Christian?
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2016, 07:37:22 PM »
Actual answer: Orthodox: however God reserves the right to deem others truly Christian, and Orthodox as not truly Christian, as He sees fit.

Oh, and also stick me in tollbooth #295.3.6.2.3 for mocking zealots in overreaction for being a former zealot for a trillion years, so that Unitarians and Hare Krishna may enter the kingdom of God before me. Lord have mercy on me. Save me, Most Holy Theotokos!
Wow, nice of you to give "God" that right.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.