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Author Topic: Imagine Sts. Cyril and Methodios attending the next SCOBA meeting  (Read 2310 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: September 01, 2005, 07:57:17 AM »

http://www.ocl.org/Imagine%20Sts.htm

Imagine Sts. Cyril and Methodios attending the next SCOBA meeting

I know this is a repeat...but it makes you wonder:
Imagine Sts Cyril and Methodios showing up at the next SCOBA meeting. As
the two enter the room, the presiding officer goes around the table and
makes the introductions.

"This is His Beatitude Herman, primate of the Orthodox Church in America.
His Beatitude's church is the original church on the continent, founded by
the Russians, and has since attracted various ethnic dioceses including the
Romanians, Albanians, and Bulgarians."

"Very nice," respond the saints.

"This is Metropolitan Joseph, he is the primate of the Bulgarian Eastern
Orthodox Church in America, representing the Bulgarian patriarchate..."

"But I thought you said the first man had Bulgarians..." respond the saints
quizzically.

"Yes, he does, but we do not recognize him as an autocephalous church, and
he only has some of the Bulgarians.." answers Abp Demetrios very matter of
factly.

"Huh...an 'auto-what' kind of church?" continue the saints.

"Next is Bishop Ilia, of the Albanian Orthodox Diocese, which is a diocese
of the Greek Orthodox Church in America," continues Abp Demetrios.

"Now wait a minute! You just said the first man had the Albanians in his
church," respond the two saints, beginning to be irritated, and beginning
to chatter to each other in Slavonic.

"Well, yes he does, but we have some other Albanian churches under this
man, who is a member of my archdiocese," continues the archbishop very
matter of factly.

"Why, don't the other Albanians like you?" continue the saints, searching
for some logic in the discussion.

"Never mind all of that," continue the saints, "Now when do all the bishops
get together? We would like to talk to them all...we have some ideas about
the translations into this new language of yours...we think it will be
beautiful..."

"Oh, we don't do that!" exclaims the archbishop.

"We tried getting together one time, my predecessor was fired by the
patriarch of Constantinople..." continues the archbishop.

"And you call this church 'Orthodox'"Huh" ask the saints, not believing
their ears.

"I've only been trying to tell them all that for about 50 years," responds
a gruff older gentleman, chewing on a cigar in the corner.

"Who's that?" ask the saints, pointing to the man.

"That's Metropolitan Philip, please forgive him...he has this crazy idea
about us all getting together as a unified church in this country. A couple
of them think it's a good idea, but I worry about how it would interfere
with preserving Hellenism," continues the archbishop.

"Preserving hel...you mean paganism!!!? That's a job for the Church now?"
exclaim the saints, now visibly shaken and chattering to each other in
Slavonic.

"Is there a Catholic Church around here..." ask the saints, packing their
things and leaving the room.

If it wasn't so close to being true, it would be funny.   Embarrassed

Posted by Dean Calvert on 8/19/2005, on the St. Andrew House Discussion Forum
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2005, 08:01:36 AM »

Quote

...and beginning to chatter to each other in Slavonic.


Rather odd thing for them to do, being native Greeks and all.
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2005, 08:16:57 AM »

Rather odd thing for them to do, being native Greeks and all.

I think you maybe missing the point in all this - maybe?

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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2005, 09:43:12 AM »

Rather odd thing for them to do, being native Greeks and all.

They were Greeks who gave the cyrillic alphabet to the Slavs. They didn't see Orthodoxy as a way of forcing Hellenism upon the non Greek speaking people. Slavonic is the only language that was originated for the Church.

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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2005, 12:01:46 PM »

But then the saints read a few articles/sermons from current SCOBA hierarchs.  "But you don't beliieve in the Virgin birth?   And you have adopted the Civil Calendar, abolished fasting and introduced general confession.  Is there an Orthodox Church in America?"  Saints leave for an Orthodox country (where they first planted the seeds of Orthodoxy).
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2005, 12:05:01 PM »

And you have adopted the Civil Calendar

I didn't realize that which Monday it is was a matter of dogma Roll Eyes
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2005, 12:39:18 PM »

TomS,
You forgot to mention that all of this is moot since the "Ecumenical Throne" has jurisidiction over all the "barbarian lands".  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2005, 01:36:45 PM »

They didn't see Orthodoxy as a way of forcing Hellenism upon the non Greek speaking people. Slavonic is the only language that was originated for the Church.



Sheesh, wuts up with all the Greek bashing on this forum? Ok maybe saying that sometimes the GOC in North America is greatly concerned with Hellenes than attracting converts is an understatement but it isn't any different with the Romanians, the Bulgarians, the Russians, and so forth.

The only reason we get picked on is because our archdiocese is the largest. And compared to the Serbian and Ukrainian churches a block away, our greek church uses the most english. We have the epsitle, gospel, homily, epiclesis, censecration all in both languages and we rotate the litanies between english and greek. There is almost no english at most of the other national orthodox churches in my city (which in Canada is usually more tightly knit than in the states).

As for forcing Greek on other churches, the antiochian church was forced to adopt Greek instead of Aramaic and Byzantinize their services...but this was done by the Byzantine Emperor for political reasons not for national pride...at least thats what I've always read.

Anyways compared to other national jurisdictions, the Greek church isn't too bad is it is rapidly expanding here and is attracting more converts than other national orthodox american churches.

The only time I've ever been upset at the Greek church was when I walked intoa monastery and I was passed off as an Italian catholic because the usher didn't see me do the sign of the cross and so I was forced to stand in the back corner of the bookstore like an idiot for the rest of Liturgy because I wasn't orthodox or not greek enough for him.

But this crap happens all the time in other churches. At the Cathedral of the Virgin of All Who Sorrow where St. john Maximovitch resides, a huge sign is posted saying women cannot be "dressed as men". And this one woman came in to venerate the holy uncorrupt relics of St. John but was refused entry by this very loud and obnoxious Russian usher because she was dressed like a man. The woman left crying and disappointed. I'm not sure St. John Maximovitch would've had that in mind. And the entire Vespers was in Church Slavonic.

So i think we're not doing to bad in compared to other churches who's cathedral's don't include a word of english in their services (ok they got a monthly english liturgy). Plus since we were greek orthodox we got stares from our light haired and green eyed russian counter parts too. FYI  It's simply a a two way thing, not a greek thing. lighten up everyone.
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 04:35:55 PM »

Rather odd thing for them to do, being native Greeks and all.

The mother of Cyril and Methodius was Slavic. Thessaloniki at this time barely remained a Greek-ish city, but the surrounding countryside was populated mainly by Slavs. When Byzantine Emperor Michael III sent Cyril north, he said "All Thessalonians speak pure Slavonic". Of course, try getting any nationalistic Greek to admit this ever happened.
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2005, 03:57:14 AM »


The mother of Cyril and Methodius was Slavic. Thessaloniki at this time barely remained a Greek-ish city, but the surrounding countryside was populated mainly by Slavs.


I have no doubt there were many Slavs living in the countryside around Thessaloniki but I sincerely doubt it was mainly populated by Slavs. What are your sources on this?

For the record I am not Greek, nor do I have any Greek ancestry.

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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2005, 04:39:04 AM »

But then the saints read a few articles/sermons from current SCOBA hierarchs.  "But you don't beliieve in the Virgin birth?  ÃƒÆ’‚ And you have adopted the Civil Calendar, abolished fasting and introduced general confession.  Is there an Orthodox Church in America?"  Saints leave for an Orthodox country (where they first planted the seeds of Orthodoxy).

Can you name one SCOBA Bishop or any other Orthodox Catholic Bishop who doesn't believe in the virgin birth?  If you can't then you might want to retract the above statement.

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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2005, 05:26:00 AM »

I believe the statement comes from a book by Fr. Thomas Hopko.ÂÂ  Here is an article about it http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/review_winter.aspx

Now I don't support the author's (of the linked article) ecclesialogical position, but there is a problem with theological liberalism in American seminaries and a divorce of Orthodox piety from daily life.  I don't think it would too much to assume many of the church's saints would be deeply shocked and scandalized by the situation of the American Church (and by that I don't mean overlapping jurisdictions, which is a fairly minor problem in the big scheme of things).  ÃƒÆ’‚  
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2005, 09:30:07 AM »

I believe the statement comes from a book by Fr. Thomas Hopko.ÂÂ  Here is an article about it http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/review_winter.aspx

Now I don't support the author's (of the linked article) ecclesialogical position, but there is a problem with theological liberalism in American seminaries and a divorce of Orthodox piety from daily life.  I don't think it would too much to assume many of the church's saints would be deeply shocked and scandalized by the situation of the American Church (and by that I don't mean overlapping jurisdictions, which is a fairly minor problem in the big scheme of things).  ÃƒÆ’‚  

I've read the text you give and nowhere does it deny the the Theotokos remained a virgin (in the way we define virginity) either before or after'Our Lords' birth.

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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 08:39:14 PM »

Rather odd thing for them to do, being native Greeks and all.

The mother of Cyril and Methodius was Slavic. Thessaloniki at this time barely remained a Greek-ish city, but the surrounding countryside was populated mainly by Slavs. When Byzantine Emperor Michael III sent Cyril north, he said "All Thessalonians speak pure Slavonic". Of course, try getting any nationalistic Greek to admit this ever happened.


This is a big statement...

Any sources to back this claim up...

And for the record I am an open minded Greek..

Well at least I think I am.. Grin
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2008, 10:36:48 PM »

Rather odd thing for them to do, being native Greeks and all.

The mother of Cyril and Methodius was Slavic. Thessaloniki at this time barely remained a Greek-ish city, but the surrounding countryside was populated mainly by Slavs. When Byzantine Emperor Michael III sent Cyril north, he said "All Thessalonians speak pure Slavonic". Of course, try getting any nationalistic Greek to admit this ever happened.

This is a big statement...

Any sources to back this claim up...

And for the record I am an open minded Greek..

Well at least I think I am.. Grin

This thread is 3 years old.  Let it rest.

Fixed quote - Cleveland, GM
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 12:12:03 AM by cleveland » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2008, 10:38:39 PM »

Rather odd thing for them to do, being native Greeks and all.

The mother of Cyril and Methodius was Slavic. Thessaloniki at this time barely remained a Greek-ish city, but the surrounding countryside was populated mainly by Slavs. When Byzantine Emperor Michael III sent Cyril north, he said "All Thessalonians speak pure Slavonic". Of course, try getting any nationalistic Greek to admit this ever happened.


This is a big statement...

Any sources to back this claim up...

And for the record I am an open minded Greek..

Well at least I think I am.. Grin

He is quoting the Vita of Cyril and Methodios.  The emperor refers to the Slavic composition of Thessalonica as a well known fact.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 10:39:16 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2008, 10:50:53 PM »

Rather odd thing for them to do, being native Greeks and all.

The mother of Cyril and Methodius was Slavic. Thessaloniki at this time barely remained a Greek-ish city, but the surrounding countryside was populated mainly by Slavs. When Byzantine Emperor Michael III sent Cyril north, he said "All Thessalonians speak pure Slavonic". Of course, try getting any nationalistic Greek to admit this ever happened.


This is a big statement...

Any sources to back this claim up...

And for the record I am an open minded Greek..

Well at least I think I am.. Grin

He is quoting the Vita of Cyril and Methodios.  The emperor refers to the Slavic composition of Thessalonica as a well known fact.

"All Thessalonians speak pure Slavonic"

I was really referring to this statement. I doubt it very much Sad
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