Author Topic: Lutheranism and Orthodoxy v. Catholicism and/or Anglicanism?  (Read 5036 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wgw

  • All scorpions must DIE!!!
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,816
  • This icon is of St. Athansius.
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Lutheranism and Orthodoxy v. Catholicism and/or Anglicanism?
« Reply #135 on: October 20, 2016, 03:31:55 AM »
My understanding is that the ROCOR Western Rite is continuing and will likely survive.  The vision of Fr. Aiden and others was to attempt to recreate the old Orthodox Western Rite, hence the book series he wrote, following the Julian Calendar, an attempt to get at the Western Rote before the changes that followed the Schism, especially the Reformation and Trent.   This was an admirable goal amd I expect it will be pursued albeit with some increased Byzantinization.

What triggered the backlash was the unfortunate incident of the bishop in charge of the ROCOR WRV, HG Jerome Shaw, disobeying the Holy Synod and doing a mass ordination on Corpus Christi, which itself is a post-schism holiday and one which I doubt fell into the vision of figures like Fr. Aidan.  Fr. Anthony Bondi was also involved in this act of disobedience, and they were both retired.

Had that incident not transpired, there would be no Sword of Damocles hovering over the Western Rite of ROCOR, but from whar I hear, Metropolitan Hilarion,  who personally replaced HG Bishop Jerome, has endeared himself to the Western Rite parishes and is accomplishing the integration of these parishes as Western Rite parishes into ROCOR as opposed to the sort of semi autonomous fiefdom that the retired vicar was apparently running, in a loving manner.  And the ROCOr Western Rite has a powerful advocate in the person of St. John Maximovitch, who personally endorsed the concept.

So I expect it will continue, but in a better form.  ROCOR tends to do things in a very pleasing manner and I don't see any crushing obliteration of the Western Rite happening; as things stabilize, the exact nature of it will be discerned.

In contrast, the AWRV is much closer to the scenario envisaged by St. Tikhon, in which the Anglican and Roman Catholic liturgies have been more or less adopted in their present form and then corrected to reflect the Orthodox faith.  So instead of liturgical archaeology as it were, the living traditions of high church Anglicanism including both the BCP and the vernacular translation of the Tridentine Mass from the English Missal (the ultimate work of Anglo Catholicism) were simply modifed more or less based on the ROC's study of the Book of Common Prayer and its defects.

Now Metropolitan Kallistos Ware has been critical of this approach, but I support it.  We know there are errors in the faith of the Western churches, we know these are reflected in the liturgy, and the Western Rite in both its Antiochian and ROCOR forms represents prototypes of what Orthodox worship will look like in the Western Church when the Western Church returns to Orthodoxy, as an alternative to the wholesale annhilation of Western liturgy, which would be tragic, because much of it was composed by people like St. Ambrose and St. Gregory Diologos who we regard as saints.

We cant fall into the Old Believer error of thinking there is only one legitimate way of doing the liturgy, because this is contrary to the historical witness of the Catholic (Orthodox) Church.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

  • Everyday I am critical of others. Every day I make similar mistakes. Every day I am a hypocrite.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,292
  • The Lord helps those who help others
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: God
Re: Lutheranism and Orthodoxy v. Catholicism and/or Anglicanism?
« Reply #136 on: April 01, 2017, 05:29:47 PM »
I may be just another voice in this internet forum wilderness, but Christ said this about his Church .

Matthew 18:19-20
…19Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. 20For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.”
___________________________________________________________________________________________

So gather in his name and forget about squabbling over useless man made laws.


The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“