Author Topic: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome  (Read 126981 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Antivoluntarist evangelist
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,838
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Antonis

  • Μέγα το Θαύμα!
  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,996
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #91 on: August 25, 2016, 05:15:39 PM »
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.

Interesting. 

Quote from: John of Damascus
Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain, the place of the skull, matter?  Is not the life-giving and life-bearing rock, the holy tomb, the source of the resurrection, matter?  Is not the ink and the all-holy book of the Gospels matter?  Is not the life-bearing table, which offers us the bread of life, matter?  Is not the gold and silver matter, out of which crosses and tablets and bowls are fashioned?  And, before all these things, is not the body and blood of my Lord matter?  Either do away with reverence and veneration for all these or submit to the tradition of the Church and allow the veneration of images of God and friends of God, sanctified by name and therefore overshadowed by the grace of the divine Spirit.  Do not abuse matter; for it is not dishonourable; this is the view of the Manichees.

On the Divine Images, I.16

Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.
It has been evidenced in other threads that these two do not accept the sanctification of matter.

Which two?
Pardon me, I meant NicholasMyra.

After his most recent post, one wonders if he recognizes the Seventh Ecumenical Council and the trials endured by the faithful who grandstanded and even died for the public exhibition of mere wood and stone.
"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline BrotherBoris

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #92 on: August 25, 2016, 05:16:17 PM »
This priest is a drama Queen . This satisfactotrily explains it all.

Abosolutely! I nominate this post for POST-OF-THE-Month.  Way to go, Augustin!

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Antivoluntarist evangelist
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,838
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #93 on: August 25, 2016, 05:23:10 PM »
After his most recent post, one wonders if he recognizes the Seventh Ecumenical Council and the trials endured by the faithful who grandstanded and even died for the public exhibition of mere wood and stone.
They died peacefully for the veneration of icons, relics, crosses and statues in the church and the attendant theology (except for those who purportedly killed a soldier removing an icon).

Not for the preservation of a single cross erected by sectarians, and not against non-Orthodox church/state authorities, and not with losing-battle rhetoric. And for them it was life or death, not camp/news media.

Yeah, it's a theological tension: Honoring and affirming material things as holy while not holding on to them, as they are in this age, as something to be grasped. But unless we work with it, we devolve into absurdities. Christianity teaches both.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 05:33:22 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,129
  • Σφάλμα μεγάλο
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #94 on: August 25, 2016, 06:12:04 PM »
...Not for the preservation of a single cross erected by sectarians...

The original cross was constructed and erected by authorities of an idolatrous, pagan state egged on by unfaithful "sons of Aaron". 
Quote
Person.  Woman.  Man.  Camera.  TV.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Antivoluntarist evangelist
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,838
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #95 on: August 25, 2016, 06:30:24 PM »
...Not for the preservation of a single cross erected by sectarians...

The original cross was constructed and erected by authorities of an idolatrous, pagan state egged on by unfaithful "sons of Aaron".

And the original cross was laid before the foundations of the world. Christ makes the Cross. Without Christ, it isn't what it is anymore.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 06:35:01 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • Monahos.net: "Lawful Evil"; OC.net: "Chaotic Evil"
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #96 on: August 25, 2016, 07:53:20 PM »
Don't take the post too seriously, Seekeroftruth. It's a hodge-podge pretty clearly meant to amuse its author and (he hopes) other similarly cynical minds.
There's nothing funny about this.

Oh, believe me, I agree. By "amuse" I meant preening yourself on your own edginess and waiting with bated breath for some other cynical young person to laud you for it.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • Monahos.net: "Lawful Evil"; OC.net: "Chaotic Evil"
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #97 on: August 25, 2016, 07:59:47 PM »
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?

Any other baseless calumny against an influential and well-respected Orthodox priest that you would like to share?

Ick.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,481
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #98 on: August 25, 2016, 08:40:54 PM »
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?


In fact they are. They equate "Orthodox Social Thought" with liberalism. They are actively deceiving people about Christian social teaching.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,337
  • It a bird, it a plane, no it's Orthogringo!
  • Faith: Orthogringo
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #99 on: August 25, 2016, 08:55:20 PM »
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?


In fact they are. They equate "Orthodox Social Thought" with liberalism. They are actively deceiving people about Christian social teaching.

What is meant by Liberal? Classical Liberal? Economic Liberal? Progressive Liberal? it seems like a too open ended word.

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,481
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #100 on: August 25, 2016, 08:57:58 PM »
Take your pick. All the variations of liberalism have the same problems at their core.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline Porter ODoran

  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • Monahos.net: "Lawful Evil"; OC.net: "Chaotic Evil"
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #101 on: August 25, 2016, 08:58:57 PM »
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?


In fact they are. They equate "Orthodox Social Thought" with liberalism. They are actively deceiving people about Christian social teaching.

This begs the question (readers are supposed to assume what "liberalism" is and that it is irreligious) and also sounds like a political concern.

By the way, what is the "true" "Christian social teaching"?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Antivoluntarist evangelist
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,838
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #102 on: August 25, 2016, 09:03:14 PM »
Back on topic, either way: The Tbilisi event and speeches like it are anti-Christian, evil. They do not constitute merely being controversial, tone-deaf, over the top, hard. Nor is this a matter of sensitivity or political correctness. Rather, anti-Christian evil that must be rejected on the grounds that it is wicked and unjust.

It is worse for the church to harm the people of this order than for the people of this order to harm the church.

It is worse for the church to scandalize the people of this order through unrighteousness than for the people of this order to scandalize the church through unrighteousness.

It is worse for the works of Ba'al, Hestia or Mars to be done in the name of Christ than for those works to be done in any other name.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 09:04:31 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • Monahos.net: "Lawful Evil"; OC.net: "Chaotic Evil"
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #103 on: August 25, 2016, 09:06:27 PM »
Back on topic, either way: The Tbilisi event and speeches like it are anti-Christian, evil. They do not constitute merely being controversial, tone-deaf, over the top, hard. Nor is this a matter of sensitivity or political correctness. Rather, anti-Christian evil that must be rejected on the grounds that it is wicked and unjust.

It is worse for the church to harm the people of this order than for the people of this order to harm the church.

It is worse for the church to scandalize the people of this order through unrighteousness than for the people of this order to scandalize the church through unrighteousness.

It is worse for the works of Ba'al, Hestia or Mars to be done in the name of Christ than for those works to be done in any other name.

You seem to be forgetting that there is more at stake than the two supposed opponents in this supposed battle. Namely, the welfare of people of all kinds, and the glory of God. If we look at the world in terms of favorite controversies, we will always be blind to true needs and true answers.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,129
  • Σφάλμα μεγάλο
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #104 on: August 25, 2016, 10:03:42 PM »
...Not for the preservation of a single cross erected by sectarians...

The original cross was constructed and erected by authorities of an idolatrous, pagan state egged on by unfaithful "sons of Aaron".

And the original cross was laid before the foundations of the world. Christ makes the Cross. Without Christ, it isn't what it is anymore.

I agree, which is why I find your calling it "stones and dust" to be rather disgusting for a professing Christian. 
Quote
Person.  Woman.  Man.  Camera.  TV.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 19,397
  • You're my guardian angel hiding in the woods
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #105 on: August 26, 2016, 12:51:45 AM »
"Homofascist" is a fun word and I intend to use it in conversation soon.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Antonis

  • Μέγα το Θαύμα!
  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,996
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #106 on: August 26, 2016, 02:52:42 AM »
After his most recent post, one wonders if he recognizes the Seventh Ecumenical Council and the trials endured by the faithful who grandstanded and even died for the public exhibition of mere wood and stone.
They died peacefully for the veneration of icons, relics, crosses and statues in the church and the attendant theology (except for those who purportedly killed a soldier removing an icon).

Not for the preservation of a single cross erected by sectarians, and not against non-Orthodox church/state authorities, and not with losing-battle rhetoric. And for them it was life or death, not camp/news media.

Yeah, it's a theological tension: Honoring and affirming material things as holy while not holding on to them, as they are in this age, as something to be grasped. But unless we work with it, we devolve into absurdities.
Yes, they died as Christian martyrs do. Your clever statement that this was merely for the sake of these objects being venerated in churches is, however, incorrect. I recommend you read the Seventh Council as well as the hagiographies surrounding it again.


Quote
a single cross erected by sectarians
Not language you would use in another circumstance. I think Mor has sufficiently addressed this.

Quote
not against non-Orthodox church/state authorities
You're saying our Church has no history of defending holy things in public spaces from non-Orthodox authorities?

Quote
And for them it was life or death, not camp/news media
You're saying our Church has no history of witnessing that didn't end in death?


The images of Christ, the saints, and the instrument of our salvation are worthy to be displayed and ought to be displayed in public spaces. It is worth fighting for.

Your talk of theological tension is unrelated.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 02:54:14 AM by Antonis »
"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline juliogb

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 976
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #107 on: August 26, 2016, 07:12:31 AM »
''The American "Orthodox" Institute is a rather ridiculous attempt to marry Christianity with liberal ideology. It is, of course, Satanic. ''

Does liberal ideology here means classic economic free market liberalism or the political left and new left?

Offline Justin Kolodziej

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,552
  • Faith: Kierkegaardian absurdity
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of Atlanta
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #108 on: August 26, 2016, 08:09:32 AM »
"Homofascist" is a fun word and I intend to use it in conversation soon.
;D
or on a bumper sticker:
Love a homofascist today! Christ commands it!

Offline Clemente

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #109 on: August 26, 2016, 08:44:47 AM »
To be fair, it's not the first time American convert clergy were out of step with the experience and witness of their Patriarchate of Antioch, and it's likely not the last time.

I hate how these American convert clergy talk so much about sin and morality. They are upsetting our nice ethnic social clubs. I'm just here for the borscht and baklava, not to speak out about homosexuality and such, which might offend my liberal friends.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 08:45:42 AM by Clemente »

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,481
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #110 on: August 26, 2016, 09:34:07 AM »
''The American "Orthodox" Institute is a rather ridiculous attempt to marry Christianity with liberal ideology. It is, of course, Satanic. ''

Does liberal ideology here means classic economic free market liberalism or the political left and new left?

It's the difference between a gaping, gushing wound, and a gaping, gushing wound with a flimsy Band-Aid slapped onto it. The AOI/ Acton types seem to prefer the former. The position is generally labeled "neoliberal" nowadays.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 09:38:26 AM by Iconodule »
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,481
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #111 on: August 26, 2016, 09:38:15 AM »
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?


In fact they are. They equate "Orthodox Social Thought" with liberalism. They are actively deceiving people about Christian social teaching.

This begs the question (readers are supposed to assume what "liberalism" is and that it is irreligious) and also sounds like a political concern.

Which begs the question... how are any of the agenda items not "political concerns"? And how is it kosher for anyone to pass off liberalism (any variant thereof) as the Orthodox social teaching?


Quote
By the way, what is the "true" "Christian social teaching"?

That's a complicated and difficult question which I trust you would agree is not best answered by resorting to John Locke, Adam Smith, or the Austrian school of economics. 
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline juliogb

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 976
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #112 on: August 26, 2016, 09:56:00 AM »
Quote
It's the difference between a gaping, gushing wound, and a gaping, gushing wound with a flimsy Band-Aid slapped onto it. The AOI/ Acton types seem to prefer the former. The position is generally labeled "neoliberal" nowadays.

Sorry, I didn't understand.

Offline juliogb

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 976
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #113 on: August 26, 2016, 10:08:35 AM »
Quote
That's a complicated and difficult question which I trust you would agree is not best answered by resorting to John Locke, Adam Smith, or the Austrian school of economics. 


I am acquainted with Austrian School of Economics and classic liberalism, and I sincerely don't see how it fits in this question, these lines of thaught are for minimum state and private charity, how that can be anti-cristian?

Offline Velsigne

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,043
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #114 on: August 26, 2016, 10:31:08 AM »
Watch your words, he's still a priest.

And?

You watch your mouth Mike, it not ok talking about a priest that way

Is it ok for priests to talk like that?

Quote
, you seem real hostile to the faith lately.

Not really.
Fortunately, Father Trenham has learnt enough from St. John Chrysostom not to worry too much about criticism, especially when he stands on the side of Orthodoxy.

Yeah, but didn't he get marched to his death by an angry vain spoiled rotten Empress?
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline Velsigne

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,043
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #115 on: August 26, 2016, 10:37:56 AM »
They changed the closest women's bathroom at my workplace to a gender neutral bathroom.  They didn't change the men's bathroom, they changed the women's bathroom.

Maybe because men sometimes react voilently to transgendered people, but I am no really sure what their reasoning is.

In any case, I went in one day while the male janitor was cleaning up, and he asked me to leave!  I pointed out that both men and women can be in the bathroom now.  He said, "I know, I just don't want you in here until I'm done."  lol 

I actually just went in to ask him for some garbage bin liners, not to use the bathroom itself. 

Those men still knock and give a warning before they enter.  It's resistance to the idea that women shouldn't be allowed boundaries and a safe area to have their private moments.  They still show respect for boundaries. 
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline FinnJames

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,120
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of Finland
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #116 on: August 26, 2016, 10:43:43 AM »
I'm just here for the borscht and baklava, ...

Send me the address of this gastronomic delight of a parish! And alert Fr Trenham to dust off his sermon against gluttony.  ;)

Offline Georgios Scholarios

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 44
    • Georgios Scholarios
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #117 on: August 26, 2016, 10:50:19 AM »
Quote
That's a complicated and difficult question which I trust you would agree is not best answered by resorting to John Locke, Adam Smith, or the Austrian school of economics. 
these lines of thaught are for minimum state and private charity, how that can be anti-cristian?

It seems to me that St. Augustine specifically attacks a very similar line of thought that pagans of his time held (City of God, 2.20):

Quote from: Augustine
'As long as it endures,' they say, 'as long as it prospers amid plenty and can boast of victories and enjoy the security of peace, what do morals matter to us? What concerns us more is that everyone should become richer and richer, so as to be able to bear the costs of his daily excesses, and to lord it over his economically weaker fellows. Let the poor toady to the rich in order to fill their stomachs and enjoy indolent ease under their patronage. Let the rich use the poor to surround themselves with a crowd of satellites and to enhance their prestige . . . Rulers must not bother whether their people are virtuous, if only they can keep them subject. The people of the provinces must not obey the governors as guardians of their morals, but as managers of their affairs and purveyors of their pleasures. They are not to show them sincere respect, but cower before them in base servility. As for laws, let them look to wrongs against property without bothering about moral propriety.
No one should be brought to court, except one who has done harm or nuisance to another's property, home, or limb, or to an unwilling party. As for the rest, each man can do his own sweet will with his goods, with his subjects, or with the goods or subjects of any others who consent. . .
'

To be fair, he's specifically attacking pagans who did not care about morality at all, which is certainly not true of modern right-wing Christian groups, but still it's clear that he thinks that the government should have a role to play in the citizens' moral life.

Also, here is St. Gregory the Great on buying grain from serfs (source):

Quote from: Gregory
We have learned that the serfs of the Church are grievously burdened in the matter of prices of grain, so that the purchase price fixed for them is not observed in time of plenty. And it is our desire that the standard purchase price be observed in their regard at all times according to the official prices, whether the harvest be great or small.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 11:07:42 AM by Georgios Scholarios »

Offline Cyrillic

  • Laser Basileus.
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,710
  • St. Theodoret of Cyrrhus, pray for us!
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #118 on: August 26, 2016, 11:53:28 AM »
Shouldn't most of this be in Politics?

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,129
  • Σφάλμα μεγάλο
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #119 on: August 26, 2016, 12:07:50 PM »
Citation?

St. Basil's Sermon to the Rich. See http://www.svspress.com/on-social-justice-st-basil-the-great/

Wasn't one of your complaints against Fr Josiah his "abject lies about the Fathers", which you supported by a claim that he says St John Chrysostom says one thing but the cited source does not support the claim? 

How interesting, then, that I read St Basil's To the Rich and found the words you quoted, but did not find any hint of what you invoked it to support. 

John of Damascus, a highly regarded theologian of your tradition, cites St Basil among others in his treatises On the Divine Images.  Clearly he did not view his teaching on images as irreconcilably opposed to St Basil's teaching, but in continuity with it--indeed, established upon it.  To the Rich doesn't contradict such a view.   

If Fr Josiah is guilty of "abject lies about the Fathers", at least he has you to keep him company. 
Quote
Person.  Woman.  Man.  Camera.  TV.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline juliogb

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 976
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #120 on: August 26, 2016, 12:10:50 PM »
Quote
That's a complicated and difficult question which I trust you would agree is not best answered by resorting to John Locke, Adam Smith, or the Austrian school of economics. 
these lines of thaught are for minimum state and private charity, how that can be anti-cristian?

It seems to me that St. Augustine specifically attacks a very similar line of thought that pagans of his time held (City of God, 2.20):

Quote from: Augustine
'As long as it endures,' they say, 'as long as it prospers amid plenty and can boast of victories and enjoy the security of peace, what do morals matter to us? What concerns us more is that everyone should become richer and richer, so as to be able to bear the costs of his daily excesses, and to lord it over his economically weaker fellows. Let the poor toady to the rich in order to fill their stomachs and enjoy indolent ease under their patronage. Let the rich use the poor to surround themselves with a crowd of satellites and to enhance their prestige . . . Rulers must not bother whether their people are virtuous, if only they can keep them subject. The people of the provinces must not obey the governors as guardians of their morals, but as managers of their affairs and purveyors of their pleasures. They are not to show them sincere respect, but cower before them in base servility. As for laws, let them look to wrongs against property without bothering about moral propriety.
No one should be brought to court, except one who has done harm or nuisance to another's property, home, or limb, or to an unwilling party. As for the rest, each man can do his own sweet will with his goods, with his subjects, or with the goods or subjects of any others who consent. . .
'

To be fair, he's specifically attacking pagans who did not care about morality at all, which is certainly not true of modern right-wing Christian groups, but still it's clear that he thinks that the government should have a role to play in the citizens' moral life.

Also, here is St. Gregory the Great on buying grain from serfs (source):

Quote from: Gregory
We have learned that the serfs of the Church are grievously burdened in the matter of prices of grain, so that the purchase price fixed for them is not observed in time of plenty. And it is our desire that the standard purchase price be observed in their regard at all times according to the official prices, whether the harvest be great or small.



Sorry, my english is not that good, but I didnt saw anything like a defense of welfare state in that St. Augustine text of Civitas Dei, and we also must keep in mind that Augustine's time was quite diferent from ours, back then they had slaves for instance and some people still saw the emperors as living gods, and most rich people back then were roman generals, poiticians and magistrates, all them somehow linked with government. However, the state is a monopoly based in violence, I don't see how state funded ''charity'' could be more christian than private funded charity.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 12:12:17 PM by juliogb »

Offline Velsigne

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,043
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #121 on: August 26, 2016, 12:11:11 PM »
Do the Father's of the church have anything to say about a woman's right to safe public facilities?

The take away for me is that this gay pride movement is a male prurient interest movement at its core, with the various proclivities tacked on for the ride (except for NAMBLA men, they had to be denied a place at the table at first due to public outrage over male predatory behaviors against boys, one of the time honored methods of creating a male homosexual class, i.e. all male boarding schools in  England)  The male domain will be protected from odd interlopers in their restrooms, it will fall to the women to be put at risk.

I know for a fact that most women have a visceral fear of male intrusion into their toilet area where they are more vulnerable.  It is no secret that men are more aggressive and can mostly overpower women in a test of brute strength.  Women have to be wary all the time, in parking lots, in stores, walking into their home, being at home, at work against advances from co-workers and superiors seeking sexual favors, now from disturbed individuals given free reign to invite them into areas where they must partially disrobe to do the most basic function of the human body.

There have already been cases of predatory behavior of gender confused men against women in these gender neutral areas.
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,129
  • Σφάλμα μεγάλο
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #122 on: August 26, 2016, 12:25:52 PM »
Your talk of theological tension is unrelated.

It's an obfuscation with an agenda. 

Quote from: John of Damascus
If I venerate and reverence the cross and the lance and the reed and the sponge, with which the deicide Jews insulted my Lord and killed him, as the cause of my salvation, shall I not venerate the images of the sufferings of Christ, fashioned with a good purpose by those who believe, for his glory and in his memory?  If I venerate the image of the cross, made of whatever wood, shall I not venerate the image of the crucified one, showing the saving cross?  That I do not venerate matter is plain.  For once the pattern of the cross is destroyed, and (say) it is made of wood, then I will consign the wood to the fire, and so with the images. 

On the Divine Images II.19

Let everyone know, therefore, that anyone who attempts to destroy an image brought into being out of divine longing and zeal for the glory and memorial of Christ...and will not, out of longing for the one depicted, venerate or honour or greet it as a precious image and not as god, is an enemy of Christ and the holy Mother of God and the saints and a vindicator of the devil and his demons, and shows by his deed his sorrow that God and his saints are honoured and glorified, and the devil put to shame. 

On the Divine Images III.10

Otherwise, we have to consider that the theological tension is within NicholasMyra and not in the teachings of the Fathers.  We can be forgiven for asking: if one of his problems with Fr Josiah is built on such shoddy foundations, what else might be? 
Quote
Person.  Woman.  Man.  Camera.  TV.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,129
  • Σφάλμα μεγάλο
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #123 on: August 26, 2016, 12:34:54 PM »
Back on topic, either way: The Tbilisi event and speeches like it are anti-Christian, evil.

Back on topic?  You were the one who, without prompting, posted reply no. 51.  At least one of your objections has been exposed for what it is.  And you are going to ask us to refocus ourselves on the OP and trust you when you make such categorical statements? 

Even if I can agree with you on "the Tblisi event and speeches like it", you are not a reliable messenger.  You are too compromised.
Quote
Person.  Woman.  Man.  Camera.  TV.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,204
  • Pray for me St. Severus
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #124 on: August 26, 2016, 12:38:15 PM »
Velsigne, juliogb, Georgios Scholarios, and anyone else who I didn't catch, knock off the off topic discussion please.  Thank you!

Also, I will advise you all that when discussing a clergy, do not directly attack his person, but only his views or corporate organizations.  Thank you!

Mina
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,129
  • Σφάλμα μεγάλο
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #125 on: August 26, 2016, 12:41:35 PM »
To be fair, it's not the first time American convert clergy were out of step with the experience and witness of their Patriarchate of Antioch, and it's likely not the last time.

I hate how these American convert clergy talk so much about sin and morality. They are upsetting our nice ethnic social clubs. I'm just here for the borscht and baklava, not to speak out about homosexuality and such, which might offend my liberal friends.

Since you are in Europe, I will safely presume that I have more experience with the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America than you do.  Personally knowing a few bishops and a dozen or so priests of that Archdiocese, both cradle and convert, also helps.

If you want to know specifically what I had in mind, feel free to ask for an example, but don't pretend to know. 
Quote
Person.  Woman.  Man.  Camera.  TV.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,481
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #126 on: August 26, 2016, 12:55:13 PM »
The Mount Rubidoux controversy was not over the incarnation, the sanctification of matter, or the veneration of icons. The cross itself was not necessarily slated for destruction in any case- it would likely have been moved somewhere else. The question was whether the cross should be exhibited on public land and the state sanction of a religious symbol. It was, in other words, a dispute between different conceptions of church/ state relations. It was in this context that Fr Josiah loudly swore to chain himself to the cross if necessary. I imagine he was rather disappointed when the situation was resolved by the land being privatized.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 12:56:21 PM by Iconodule »
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,129
  • Σφάλμα μεγάλο
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #127 on: August 26, 2016, 01:05:03 PM »
The Mount Rubidoux controversy was not over the incarnation, the sanctification of matter, or the veneration of icons. The cross itself was not necessarily slated for destruction in any case- it would likely have been moved somewhere else. The question was whether the cross should be exhibited on public land and the state sanction of a religious symbol. It was, in other words, a dispute between different conceptions of church/ state relations. It was in this context that Fr Josiah loudly swore to chain himself to the cross if necessary. I imagine he was rather disappointed when the situation was resolved by the land being privatized.

If you can imagine his disappointment over how the situation was resolved, I can imagine that his inspiration for getting involved in the first place was inspired by Orthodox theology. 

I'm no blind supporter of Fr Josiah's "methods", as I'm sure you know, but with regard to this incident, I'm just not confident in the spin with which it is being presented in this thread. 
Quote
Person.  Woman.  Man.  Camera.  TV.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Antonis

  • Μέγα το Θαύμα!
  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,996
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #128 on: August 26, 2016, 01:12:15 PM »
I think Iconodule has really given up the whole ruse, here. It has been clear the whole time that detractors on this thread take issue with what they perceive to be the person of Fr Josiah, rather than any of his particular practices. Reaching for this or that practice was merely the excuse--and a poorly-founded one at that, because, again, they relied on assumptions of his character.

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,481
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #129 on: August 26, 2016, 01:25:00 PM »
The ruse? Huh. I have never met Fr Josiah. All I know about him are his various public statements and actions, many of which are ridiculous and quite poisonous to the discourse in the Church on a variety of issues. So yes, I will say that I have a number of serious objections to Fr. Josiah, but stemming from his positions and his methods, not his character. I never made a secret about this.

Fr Josiah has made himself one of the leading, most visible voices in the small pond of American Orthodoxy. It's hard to travel far without encountering his influence. I think it's quite reasonable therefore to bring attention to the aspects of his ministry that are dangerous and harmful.

And if you are okay with a priest of the Church raving about "homofascists" in a country where violence and intimidation against gays is well known, shame on you. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 01:30:38 PM by Iconodule »
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,204
  • Pray for me St. Severus
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #130 on: August 26, 2016, 01:32:44 PM »
This priest is a drama Queen . This satisfactotrily explains it all.

As far as I am seeing, this violates the rules concerning dealing with specific clergy and people.  I'm letting you off with a warning augustin717.  Be careful not to direct your attacks on a person's character.  Views, corporate organizations, actions, etc. in this section is okay to attack, but not the person.

God bless you.

Mina
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Clemente

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #131 on: August 26, 2016, 01:52:45 PM »
To be fair, it's not the first time American convert clergy were out of step with the experience and witness of their Patriarchate of Antioch, and it's likely not the last time.

I hate how these American convert clergy talk so much about sin and morality. They are upsetting our nice ethnic social clubs. I'm just here for the borscht and baklava, not to speak out about homosexuality and such, which might offend my liberal friends.

Since you are in Europe, I will safely presume that I have more experience with the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America than you do.  Personally knowing a few bishops and a dozen or so priests of that Archdiocese, both cradle and convert, also helps.

If you want to know specifically what I had in mind, feel free to ask for an example, but don't pretend to know.

I don't pretend to know more than you about the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America and haven't said so. Though I live much of my year in Europe, I spend a significant amount of time each year in the States and commune in an Antiochian parish of both coverts and cradle Orthodox. In fact, it was a cradle Orthodox believer in the US that first recommended I listen to Fr. Josiah Trenham, who is much loved in this parish. It is precisely my experience in seeing how much you have in the US compared to us, much of it driven by convert priests--Ancient Faith Radio, Orthodox Christian Fellowships, the Orthodox Study Bible, etc.--that leads me to be mystified by the subtle and not so subtle anti-convert attitudes that seem prevalent here at OC.net.

I don't question at all your experience, but our mostly cradle priests here in Europe are occasionally out of step as well, without many of your advantages in American Orthodoxy. So I don't see why you should want to make a distinction, which seems unfair.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,129
  • Σφάλμα μεγάλο
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #132 on: August 26, 2016, 02:20:06 PM »
It is precisely my experience in seeing how much you have in the US compared to us, much of it driven by convert priests--Ancient Faith Radio, Orthodox Christian Fellowships, the Orthodox Study Bible, etc.--that leads me to be mystified by the subtle and not so subtle anti-convert attitudes that seem prevalent here at OC.net.

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't consider mine an anti-convert attitude except to the degree that yours is an anti-ethnic or anti-cradle attitude: each of us can identify certain negative trends that disproportionately affect either of these groups and we call them out on it so that the overall situation improves for everyone. 
Quote
Person.  Woman.  Man.  Camera.  TV.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,337
  • It a bird, it a plane, no it's Orthogringo!
  • Faith: Orthogringo
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #133 on: August 26, 2016, 02:25:54 PM »
It is precisely my experience in seeing how much you have in the US compared to us, much of it driven by convert priests--Ancient Faith Radio, Orthodox Christian Fellowships, the Orthodox Study Bible, etc.--that leads me to be mystified by the subtle and not so subtle anti-convert attitudes that seem prevalent here at OC.net.

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't consider mine an anti-convert attitude except to the degree that yours is an anti-ethnic or anti-cradle attitude: each of us can identify certain negative trends that disproportionately affect either of these groups and we call them out on it so that the overall situation improves for everyone.

Nice response, can we all try to respond like this. I'm sick of the cradle vs convert arguments, Orthodoxy is small as it is already in the states, division is what Satan wants.

Offline Samn!

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 894
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchaat van Erps-Kwerps
Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #134 on: August 26, 2016, 02:33:16 PM »
This priest is a drama Queen . This satisfactotrily explains it all.

As far as I am seeing, this violates the rules concerning dealing with specific clergy and people.  I'm letting you off with a warning augustin717.  Be careful not to direct your attacks on a person's character.  Views, corporate organizations, actions, etc. in this section is okay to attack, but not the person.

God bless you.

Mina


What then, is an acceptable way on this forum of criticizing Fr Trenham's highly theatrical and attention-seeking style? The style is the substance, more often than not.