Author Topic: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome  (Read 100607 times)

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2016, 12:53:31 PM »
It's easy to preach about evil homosexualism, greed of the capitalists or incompatibility of cannibalism and Orthodoxy. It's harder to preach about sins that the audience you are talking to actually commits instead of reading about them in newspapers (like abortions, domestic violence, violence in general, drunkenness and gluttony, risky behavior behind the wheel etc,). They could feel awkward, even criticized and may react grudgingly. But this way they can think to themselves how better they are in comparison to those (removed - Mor) and go depart in peace.

And that's not only directed at Fr. Trenham but to most of the Orthodox internet preaching, actually.

Edited to remove obscenity.  Mor Ephrem, section moderator

mike,

Though I find myself agreeing with your basic point, I am constrained by your use of obscene terminology in violation of forum rules as well as your history of inappropriate behaviour in this section to impose upon you a warning of thirty (30) points.

If you would like to appeal this decision, please PM me.

Mor Ephrem, section moderator

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2016, 12:57:54 PM »
Thread unlocked. 

Mor Ephrem, section moderator

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2016, 01:01:04 PM »
It's easy to preach about evil homosexualism, greed of the capitalists or incompatibility of cannibalism and Orthodoxy. It's harder to preach about sins that the audience you are talking to actually commits instead of reading about them in newspapers (like abortions, domestic violence, violence in general, drunkenness and gluttony, risky behavior behind the wheel etc,). They could feel awkward, even criticized and may react grudgingly. But this way they can think to themselves how better they are in comparison to those (removed - Mor) and go depart in peace.

And that's not only directed at Fr. Trenham but to most of the Orthodox internet preaching, actually.
I agree with you in that point. My opposition wasn't to your disagreement with the priest, but rather to the way you expressed it.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 01:02:53 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2016, 01:04:17 PM »
Perhaps I watched the wrong video, as nobody else has commented on this: the topic of his discussion in that video does not match Fr John's write-up.

I have listened to the audio from a talk he gave at that conference that does, though.

Do you mean this video?

Gay Iconoclasm: Holding the Line against the Radical LGBT Agenda

Offline Antonis

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2016, 01:06:33 PM »
Perhaps I watched the wrong video, as nobody else has commented on this: the topic of his discussion in that video does not match Fr John's write-up.

I have listened to the audio from a talk he gave at that conference that does, though.

Do you mean this video?

Gay Iconoclasm: Holding the Line against the Radical LGBT Agenda
That's the one.
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2016, 01:11:27 PM »
Perhaps I watched the wrong video, as nobody else has commented on this: the topic of his discussion in that video does not match Fr John's write-up.

I have listened to the audio from a talk he gave at that conference that does, though.

Thanks for posting this. I wondered if I'd fallen asleep during the video and missed something. As far as I can remember, it was a pro-family and anti-abortion video, well worth watching.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2016, 02:20:05 PM »
What is Fr. Josiah doing that not on the side of Orthodoxy?

Grandstanding to the pusillanimous with no regard, or no right regard, for the consequences.

Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.

Disregarding good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it. Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight: The simpering resentment befitting bonded slaves, not slaves of God.

Caesaropapism leading to clerical blasphemy of a church service.

Abject lies about the Fathers, especially St. John Chrysostom.

Participating in an evil, anti-Christian thinktank.

Possibly encouraging SCOBA to disregard good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it, or speaking or composing for them in this manner. Possibly condoning and advertising the fabrication of violent threat events for grandstanding purposes (see the recent "allahu akhbar" affair).

Allowing icon-like photo depictions of himself on his website (though I think the halo sun behind his head pic has been taken down).

Etc.

We stand against evil. Gird thyself, etc.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 02:22:09 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2016, 02:38:44 PM »
What is Fr. Josiah doing that not on the side of Orthodoxy?

Grandstanding to the pusillanimous with no regard, or no right regard, for the consequences.

Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.

Disregarding good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it. Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight: The simpering resentment befitting bonded slaves, not slaves of God.

Caesaropapism leading to clerical blasphemy of a church service.

Abject lies about the Fathers, especially St. John Chrysostom.

Participating in an evil, anti-Christian thinktank.

Possibly encouraging SCOBA to disregard good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it, or speaking or composing for them in this manner. Possibly condoning and advertising the fabrication of violent threat events for grandstanding purposes (see the recent "allahu akhbar" affair).

Allowing icon-like photo depictions of himself on his website (though I think the halo sun behind his head pic has been taken down).

Etc.

We stand against evil. Gird thyself, etc.


Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2016, 02:39:34 PM »
What is Fr. Josiah doing that not on the side of Orthodoxy?

Grandstanding to the pusillanimous with no regard, or no right regard, for the consequences.

Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.

Disregarding good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it. Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight: The simpering resentment befitting bonded slaves, not slaves of God.

Caesaropapism leading to clerical blasphemy of a church service.

Abject lies about the Fathers, especially St. John Chrysostom.

Participating in an evil, anti-Christian thinktank.

Possibly encouraging SCOBA to disregard good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it, or speaking or composing for them in this manner. Possibly condoning and advertising the fabrication of violent threat events for grandstanding purposes (see the recent "allahu akhbar" affair).

Allowing icon-like photo depictions of himself on his website (though I think the halo sun behind his head pic has been taken down).

Etc.

We stand against evil. Gird thyself, etc.




The price went up....cant afford....
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2016, 02:44:40 PM »
The price went up....cant afford....
Yeah I heard about that, people are also making their own epipens now.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2016, 02:50:38 PM »
nvm
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 02:50:55 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2016, 02:51:31 PM »
What is Fr. Josiah doing that not on the side of Orthodoxy?

Grandstanding to the pusillanimous with no regard, or no right regard, for the consequences.

Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.

Disregarding good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it. Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight: The simpering resentment befitting bonded slaves, not slaves of God.

Caesaropapism leading to clerical blasphemy of a church service.

Abject lies about the Fathers, especially St. John Chrysostom.

Participating in an evil, anti-Christian thinktank.

Possibly encouraging SCOBA to disregard good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it, or speaking or composing for them in this manner. Possibly condoning and advertising the fabrication of violent threat events for grandstanding purposes (see the recent "allahu akhbar" affair).

Allowing icon-like photo depictions of himself on his website (though I think the halo sun behind his head pic has been taken down).

Etc.

We stand against evil. Gird thyself, etc.

You made your point, those are scary points  :o

What the anti-Christian think tank he belongs to? That very new news to me.

What is this Clerical Blasphemy of a Church Service? I am shocked to hear that

Okay the Icon like photos is just flat wrong, Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Hmm he allowed to have a show on AFR, the more I listen to their shows it does seem Protestant-lite for Orthodox.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2016, 03:04:40 PM »
Don't take the post too seriously, Seekeroftruth. It's a hodge-podge pretty clearly meant to amuse its author and (he hopes) other similarly cynical minds.
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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2016, 03:10:19 PM »
Don't take the post too seriously, Seekeroftruth. It's a hodge-podge pretty clearly meant to amuse its author and (he hopes) other similarly cynical minds.
There's nothing funny about this.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2016, 03:11:51 PM »
Don't take the post too seriously, Seekeroftruth. It's a hodge-podge pretty clearly meant to amuse its author and (he hopes) other similarly cynical minds.
There's nothing funny about this.

Then would you provide some specifics instead of slogans? 

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #60 on: August 25, 2016, 03:12:31 PM »
What the anti-Christian think tank he belongs to? That very new news to me.
http://blog.acton.org/archives/87416-mcdonalds-as-social-enterprise-capitalisms-community-center.html

What is this Clerical Blasphemy of a Church Service? I am shocked to hear that
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=65646.0

Okay the Icon like photos is just flat wrong, Thanks for bringing this to my attention.



« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 03:13:08 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline juliogb

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #61 on: August 25, 2016, 03:26:49 PM »
What is the problem with that think tank?

Offline Samn!

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2016, 03:29:45 PM »


What is this Clerical Blasphemy of a Church Service? I am shocked to hear that


He is probably referring to the service where this sermon: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/thearena/a_black_day_supreme_folly_from_the_supremes was given. At that same service, he wore black vestments and afterwards held some kind of lamentation service.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2016, 03:35:13 PM »
At that same service, he wore black vestments and afterwards held some kind of lamentation service.

Did he stitch a copy of the US Constitution onto a winding sheet or something? 

Offline Clemente

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2016, 03:40:30 PM »
What the anti-Christian think tank he belongs to? That very new news to me.
http://blog.acton.org/archives/87416-mcdonalds-as-social-enterprise-capitalisms-community-center.html

What is this Clerical Blasphemy of a Church Service? I am shocked to hear that
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=65646.0

Okay the Icon like photos is just flat wrong, Thanks for bringing this to my attention.


1. Are you referring to the Acton Institute, which enjoys contributions from numerous Orthodox priests and has been featured on AFR? Or rather McDonalds? That was a complete fail.

2. That was hardly blasphemy. Do you know what that word means? Fail

3. The photo is hardly an attempt to imitate an icon. The secular press does not typically do that consciously.

If this is the substance of your accusations, you are just calumnising an Orthodox priest. You should apologise.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2016, 03:48:51 PM »
Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.

Disregarding good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it. Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight: The simpering resentment befitting bonded slaves, not slaves of God.

Abject lies about the Fathers, especially St. John Chrysostom.

I would like to know specifics about whatever these sentences refer to. 

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2016, 03:49:34 PM »
St. Balotelli, pray for us?


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May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Clemente

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2016, 03:53:25 PM »
Here are some recent Orthodox talks by priests at the Acton Institute:
AUGUST 18, 2015
East Meets West: Consumerism and Asceticism - Fr. Gregory Jensen
Asceticism is concerned with the “inner transformation of the human person, in his being progressively conformed to Christ.” Understood in this way, asceticism has a foundational role to play in any Christian response to the practical and anthropological challenges of consumerism.
46:56
AUGUST 18, 2015
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Prophet and Critic - Fr. Johannes Jacobse
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the courageous Russian writer, contributed indispensably to bringing down the Soviet Union. Conventional Western opinion sees his story, too, as ending then. But the conflict of good against evil and truth against lies runs throughout the moral universe, not just the Soviet scene. Moreover, half of his writings are not yet in English. This course explores the unknown Solzhenitsyn.
48:08
AUGUST 18, 2015
Introduction to Orthodox Social Thought - Dylan Pahman
This course offers an introduction to fundamental principles for Orthodox Christian social thought.
46:22
AUGUST 18, 2015
Orthodoxy and Natural Law - Fr. Michael Butler
Eastern Orthodoxy has been ambivalent about natural law. This lecture considers how natural law thinking might work in distinctly Orthodox ways of considering the relationship between faith and reason and examines some implications that might be useful today.
54:14

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/acton_university_2015

This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?

Any other baseless calumny against an influential and well-respected Orthodox priest that you would like to share?



Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2016, 04:02:50 PM »
Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.

Disregarding good rhetorical tradition in favor of a formulaic betrayal of it. Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight: The simpering resentment befitting bonded slaves, not slaves of God.

Abject lies about the Fathers, especially St. John Chrysostom.

I would like to know specifics about whatever these sentences refer to.

1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.
2. His homofascist speech, several podcasts, etc. under the guise of imitating patristic Aristotelian rhetoric's harsh polemics. However an ossified rhetorical practice which fails to speak well to its audience goes against the very principles of rhetoric the Fathers would have employed.
3. Many instances in "Marriage and Virginity According to St. John Chrysostom." Specific example: Pg. 198 he says St. John told husbands to send unruly wives to bed without dinner, source does not support this claim.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #69 on: August 25, 2016, 04:04:41 PM »
This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?
Fr. Jacobse runs The American Orthodox Institute and I consider that anti-Christian, but that's another thread.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 04:04:53 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Clemente

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2016, 04:06:48 PM »
Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight: The simpering resentment befitting bonded slaves, not slaves of God.

Abject lies about the Fathers, especially St. John Chrysostom.

I would like to know specifics about whatever these sentences refer to.

I would like to know specifics as well. I have listened to a number of talks by Father Trenham, one of the most popular Orthodox speakers on Ancient Faith Radio. I have heard nothing at all from him that approximates even tangentially what you have accused here.

Moreover, your accusation of "Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight" is demonstrably wrong, as illustrated in the photo you provided which shows him actually fighting publicly with the world  to preserve a publicly displayed cross. You've undermined your own case and we call all see it.

What a bunch of rubbish. Seriously, you should be ashamed.

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2016, 04:10:41 PM »
Moreover, your accusation of "Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight" is demonstrably wrong, as illustrated in the photo you provided which shows him actually fighting publicly with the world  to preserve a publicly displayed cross.
If you think that's fighting the world, then you don't know what Christianity is.

What a bunch of rubbish. Seriously, you should be ashamed.

No. You should be ashamed for not opposing him, we should all be ashamed for letting it get to the point where this is who is speaking for the faith.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 04:11:00 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Georgios Scholarios

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #72 on: August 25, 2016, 04:12:18 PM »
I think NicholasMyra was not right to bring up a list of Fr. Josiah's (supposed) wrong-doings the way he did (to be honest, it seemed sort of gossip-like - I'm not judging him, since I myself got a bit excited to see his list).

However, just because someone or something is popular among certain Orthodox is not automatic vindication. I think NicholasMyra might have valid points about places like the Acton Institute. If I understand them right (which I might not, I've never really looked into it), it seems like a poor attempt to fully reconcile Christianity and right-wing American politics.

EDIT: but seriously, why can't Fr. Josiah always use a mild tone, like he did so well in the Mark Takano video? The "secular world is corrupt" thing doesn't actually convince many, and it's kind of bizarre when you compare Western society now to ancient society. It's not perfect, but certainly better.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 04:14:29 PM by Georgios Scholarios »

Offline Clemente

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #73 on: August 25, 2016, 04:13:23 PM »
Moreover, your accusation of "Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight" is demonstrably wrong, as illustrated in the photo you provided which shows him actually fighting publicly with the world  to preserve a publicly displayed cross.
If you think that's fighting the world, then you don't know what Christianity is.

What a bunch of rubbish. Seriously, you should be ashamed.

No. You should be ashamed for not opposing him, we should all be ashamed for letting it get to the point where this is who is speaking for the faith.
This is the "anti-Christian think tank" he belongs to? Are Orthodox Fathers Jensen, Jacobse and Butler "anti Christian"?
Fr. Jacobse runs The American Orthodox Institute and I consider that anti-Christian, but that's another thread.

No, no, go ahead, explain now why the American Orthodox Institute is "anti-Christian". In fact, please provide a list of all the "anti-Christian" Orthodox sites, so I don't get sucked in to their "anti-Christian" heresy. Please provide substance as to why they are "anti-Christisn", or, in absence of evidence, stop calumnising Orthodox priests in good standing.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #74 on: August 25, 2016, 04:19:25 PM »
The American "Orthodox" Institute is a rather ridiculous attempt to marry Christianity with liberal ideology. It is, of course, Satanic.

Fr Josiah Trenham is an embarrassment to all who bear the name of Christ. Barring his repentance, may his ministry be soon curtailed.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #75 on: August 25, 2016, 04:20:49 PM »
No, no, go ahead, explain now why the American Orthodox Institute is "anti-Christian".
Georgios Scholarios was close, really it seeks to marry free market economics with Christianity, give it Christian approval, show that Christianity birthed and supports it etc.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Clemente

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #76 on: August 25, 2016, 04:21:42 PM »
Moreover, your accusation of "Teaching people to cower in fear of "the world," as if it is stronger, and would win in a fair fight" is demonstrably wrong, as illustrated in the photo you provided which shows him actually fighting publicly with the world  to preserve a publicly displayed cross.
i
If you think that's fighting the world, then you don't know what Christianity is.

What a bunch of rubbish. Seriously, you should be ashamed.

No. You should be ashamed for not opposing him, we should all be ashamed for letting it get to the point where this is who is speaking for the faith.

Then I guess Metr. Hilarion Alfeyev doesn't know what Christianity is.

"We should not remain silent and look with indifference at a world that is gradually deteriorating. Rather, we should proclaim Christian morality and teach it openly not only in our churches, but also in public spaces including secular schools, universities and in the arena of the mass media. We do not presume to impose our views on anybody but we wish that our voice be heard by those who want to hear it. Unfortunately, we cannot convert the whole world to God, but we should at least make people think about the meaning of life and the existence of absolute spiritual and moral values. We are obliged to bear witness to the true faith always and everywhere so that at least some may be saved (1 Cor. 9:22)"https://mospat.ru/en/2010/09/10/news25819/

Do you want to calumnise Metr. Hilarion as well for speaking out against the acceptance of homosexuality and the need to be engaged.

Again, you should be ashamed for your calumny against now a number of Orthodox priests, completely unsupported by fact. Put up or shut up and apologise.


Offline Samn!

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #77 on: August 25, 2016, 04:26:41 PM »

2. That was hardly blasphemy. Do you know what that word means? Fail


It's definitely the case that a priest unilaterally inventing his own liturgical theatrics to make a political point is a big no-no and rather more appropriate to a megachurch than to Orthodoxy, whether you want to call that 'blasphemy' or something else.

Fr Josiah's extremely ill-informed talks about Islam that he's been going around the country giving, even as a 'Lenten retreat' are also quite alarming and very out of touch with the experience and witness of his Patriarchate of Antioch.

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2016, 04:26:54 PM »
"We should not remain silent and look with indifference at a world that is gradually deteriorating. Rather, we should proclaim Christian morality and teach it openly not only in our churches, but also in public spaces including secular schools, universities and in the arena of the mass media. We do not presume to impose our views on anybody but we wish that our voice be heard by those who want to hear it. Unfortunately, we cannot convert the whole world to God, but we should at least make people think about the meaning of life and the existence of absolute spiritual and moral values. We are obliged to bear witness to the true faith always and everywhere so that at least some may be saved (1 Cor. 9:22

I agree with Met Hilarion, which is precisely why clerics like Fr Josiah should be vocally opposed when they proliferate poisonous worldly ideologies with a superficial Christian guise.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline Clemente

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #79 on: August 25, 2016, 04:28:59 PM »
"We should not remain silent and look with indifference at a world that is gradually deteriorating. Rather, we should proclaim Christian morality and teach it openly not only in our churches, but also in public spaces including secular schools, universities and in the arena of the mass media. We do not presume to impose our views on anybody but we wish that our voice be heard by those who want to hear it. Unfortunately, we cannot convert the whole world to God, but we should at least make people think about the meaning of life and the existence of absolute spiritual and moral values. We are obliged to bear witness to the true faith always and everywhere so that at least some may be saved (1 Cor. 9:22

I agree with Met Hilarion, which is precisely why clerics like Fr Josiah should be vocally opposed when they proliferate poisonous worldly ideologies with a superficial Christian guise.
No, no, go ahead, explain now why the American Orthodox Institute is "anti-Christian".
Georgios Scholarios was close, really it seeks to marry free market economics with Christianity, give it Christian approval, show that Christianity birthed and supports it etc.

Oh, I see. So if you disagree with one's political ideology, they are "anti-Christian". Or is it "anti-Christian" to even contemplate politics? If so, much of what is written here at OC.net is "anti-Christian".

If you think open discussions about the intersections faith and life are "anti-Christian", why do you post here?

Offline augustin717

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #80 on: August 25, 2016, 04:31:08 PM »
This priest is a drama Queen . This satisfactotrily explains it all.
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Offline Clemente

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #81 on: August 25, 2016, 04:32:53 PM »
"We should not remain silent and look with indifference at a world that is gradually deteriorating. Rather, we should proclaim Christian morality and teach it openly not only in our churches, but also in public spaces including secular schools, universities and in the arena of the mass media. We do not presume to impose our views on anybody but we wish that our voice be heard by those who want to hear it. Unfortunately, we cannot convert the whole world to God, but we should at least make people think about the meaning of life and the existence of absolute spiritual and moral values. We are obliged to bear witness to the true faith always and everywhere so that at least some may be saved (1 Cor. 9:22

I agree with Met Hilarion, which is precisely why clerics like Fr Josiah should be vocally opposed when they proliferate poisonous worldly ideologies with a superficial Christian guise.

Another completely scurrilous and unsupported accusation against an Orthodox priest in good standing. Wow, this thread is amazing for its lack of substance.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #82 on: August 25, 2016, 04:33:18 PM »
Or is it "anti-Christian" to even contemplate politics? 
Lol, my sig?
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #83 on: August 25, 2016, 04:33:31 PM »
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.

Interesting. 

Quote from: John of Damascus
Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain, the place of the skull, matter?  Is not the life-giving and life-bearing rock, the holy tomb, the source of the resurrection, matter?  Is not the ink and the all-holy book of the Gospels matter?  Is not the life-bearing table, which offers us the bread of life, matter?  Is not the gold and silver matter, out of which crosses and tablets and bowls are fashioned?  And, before all these things, is not the body and blood of my Lord matter?  Either do away with reverence and veneration for all these or submit to the tradition of the Church and allow the veneration of images of God and friends of God, sanctified by name and therefore overshadowed by the grace of the divine Spirit.  Do not abuse matter; for it is not dishonourable; this is the view of the Manichees.

On the Divine Images, I.16

Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.

Offline Georgios Scholarios

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #84 on: August 25, 2016, 04:35:25 PM »
While NicholasMyra and Iconodule make fair criticisms of Fr. Josiah - after all, he's very public about what he says, so he should expect criticism - it's certainly extreme to accuse him of being "an embarrassment to all who bear the name of Christ" (!). Christ said if you love only those who love you, what credit is there? I think we should refrain from strong language like that.




Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2016, 04:37:42 PM »

2. That was hardly blasphemy. Do you know what that word means? Fail


It's definitely the case that a priest unilaterally inventing his own liturgical theatrics to make a political point is a big no-no and rather more appropriate to a megachurch than to Orthodoxy, whether you want to call that 'blasphemy' or something else.

+1

Quote
Fr Josiah's extremely ill-informed talks about Islam that he's been going around the country giving, even as a 'Lenten retreat' are also quite alarming and very out of touch with the experience and witness of his Patriarchate of Antioch.

To be fair, it's not the first time American convert clergy were out of step with the experience and witness of their Patriarchate of Antioch, and it's likely not the last time. 

Offline Antonis

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2016, 04:42:51 PM »
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.

Interesting. 

Quote from: John of Damascus
Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain, the place of the skull, matter?  Is not the life-giving and life-bearing rock, the holy tomb, the source of the resurrection, matter?  Is not the ink and the all-holy book of the Gospels matter?  Is not the life-bearing table, which offers us the bread of life, matter?  Is not the gold and silver matter, out of which crosses and tablets and bowls are fashioned?  And, before all these things, is not the body and blood of my Lord matter?  Either do away with reverence and veneration for all these or submit to the tradition of the Church and allow the veneration of images of God and friends of God, sanctified by name and therefore overshadowed by the grace of the divine Spirit.  Do not abuse matter; for it is not dishonourable; this is the view of the Manichees.

On the Divine Images, I.16

Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.
It has been evidenced in other threads that these two do not accept the sanctification of matter.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2016, 04:48:18 PM »
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.

Interesting. 

Quote from: John of Damascus
Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain, the place of the skull, matter?  Is not the life-giving and life-bearing rock, the holy tomb, the source of the resurrection, matter?  Is not the ink and the all-holy book of the Gospels matter?  Is not the life-bearing table, which offers us the bread of life, matter?  Is not the gold and silver matter, out of which crosses and tablets and bowls are fashioned?  And, before all these things, is not the body and blood of my Lord matter?  Either do away with reverence and veneration for all these or submit to the tradition of the Church and allow the veneration of images of God and friends of God, sanctified by name and therefore overshadowed by the grace of the divine Spirit.  Do not abuse matter; for it is not dishonourable; this is the view of the Manichees.

On the Divine Images, I.16

Performing bizarre public stunts to save stones and dust from being converted into other forms of stone and dust.
It has been evidenced in other threads that these two do not accept the sanctification of matter.

Which two? 

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2016, 04:53:05 PM »
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.

Interesting. 

Quote from: John of Damascus
Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain, the place of the skull, matter?  Is not the life-giving and life-bearing rock, the holy tomb, the source of the resurrection, matter?  Is not the ink and the all-holy book of the Gospels matter?  Is not the life-bearing table, which offers us the bread of life, matter?  Is not the gold and silver matter, out of which crosses and tablets and bowls are fashioned?  And, before all these things, is not the body and blood of my Lord matter?  Either do away with reverence and veneration for all these or submit to the tradition of the Church and allow the veneration of images of God and friends of God, sanctified by name and therefore overshadowed by the grace of the divine Spirit.  Do not abuse matter; for it is not dishonourable; this is the view of the Manichees.

On the Divine Images, I.16


That's all true and good, we should honor holy things. Nevertheless we don't grandstand for wood, non-human clay and stones in this age as if this is how the endurance of holy things stands or falls. We don't travel abroad seeking some if others are near. We don't lament their destruction as though they are persons. They endure insofar as Christ and his kingdom endures, insofar as the sons of God endure, where holy things cannot be destroyed. We especially don't portray the discorporation of stone and dust artifices in this age as a great loss inflicted by "the world."

The most high does not dwell in temples made with hands.

Unless St. Basil irecconcilably opposes St. John when he says,

"...you...mourn, in giving gold, and silver, and goods — that is, offering stones and dust — in order to obtain the blessed life."
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 04:57:45 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Fr Josiah Trenham in Tbilisi: Homofascists not Welcome
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2016, 05:09:19 PM »
1. The Mt. Rubidoux Cross affair.

Interesting. 

Quote from: John of Damascus
Is not the thrice-precious and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?  Is not the holy and august mountain, the place of the skull, matter?  Is not the life-giving and life-bearing rock, the holy tomb, the source of the resurrection, matter?  Is not the ink and the all-holy book of the Gospels matter?  Is not the life-bearing table, which offers us the bread of life, matter?  Is not the gold and silver matter, out of which crosses and tablets and bowls are fashioned?  And, before all these things, is not the body and blood of my Lord matter?  Either do away with reverence and veneration for all these or submit to the tradition of the Church and allow the veneration of images of God and friends of God, sanctified by name and therefore overshadowed by the grace of the divine Spirit.  Do not abuse matter; for it is not dishonourable; this is the view of the Manichees.

On the Divine Images, I.16


That's all true and good, we should honor holy things. Nevertheless we don't grandstand for wood, non-human clay and stones in this age as if this is how the endurance of holy things stands or falls. We don't travel abroad seeking some if others are near. We don't lament their destruction as though they are persons. They endure insofar as Christ and his kingdom endures, insofar as the sons of God endure, where holy things cannot be destroyed. We especially don't portray the discorporation of stone and dust artifices in this age as a great loss inflicted by "the world."

The most high does not dwell in temples made with hands.

It seems you have a problem with your own history. 

Quote
Unless St. Basil irecconcilably opposes St. John when he says,

"...you...mourn, in giving gold, and silver, and goods — that is, offering stones and dust — in order to obtain the blessed life."

Citation?