Author Topic: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church  (Read 9021 times)

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Offline LBK

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #450 on: January 12, 2017, 02:55:00 AM »

See!!!! Now you're actually starting to ask good, meaningful questions!  So let me give you a short story:

Always went to Melkite church.  One day I got invited to AOC.  And I was like what the??? The Liturgy is EXACTLY the same.  How was this possible?  Melkite is under Catholic and Antiochan is Orthodox.  So I started to read a lot on the history.  It turned out that the AOC had internal strife that involved the Emperor that ended up sitting the church in two.  But when the Melkites started thier own church, they didn't change their theology or their Rite.  Then I started thinking to myself.. if the Melkites were originally AO, I should be going to the AOC instead because that is the "mother".

Then what's stopping you from converting properly?
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #451 on: January 12, 2017, 02:55:53 AM »
Turns out you DID admit your priest was unhappy about the idea of Melkites and EOs commonly intercommuning like it was no big deal :

Fact 1:  The Melkites and Antiochians generally intercommune in the Middle East because, well, that is the way it is. 



And my AEO priest seems to have calmed down and accepted that it is still ok to have "fact 1" even in the US. 

What do you mean seems to have calmed down?

I used the words that the Decan used.

If this made your priest the opposite of calm, why would he feel perfectly fine with giving you communion? Your story doesn't add up. It's not believable.

No I didn't mean it that way.  Again, I was using it in the context of the person using the phrase before me.  My priest never heistated.  Maybe he was never OK with it in the past, and if he wasn't, then he's calmed down about it now because he didn't hesitated to give it to me.
Well I will try to calm down too. You already know Melkites councils and their teachings are unorthodox and our church rules say Melkites can't  get regular communion, and that you didn't follow the format for conversion to orthodoxy from melkitism.

And your goal has just been to throw it in our faces that you do it anyway, like when you announced "there is no if, it is a fact that is happening".

Ok. I get it. You don't actually care about Orthodoxy. It's not in your heart and you still sing in the choir and get communion. Yes, I get it. Some people do those things. Probably phariseeism is more common than people realize.

Ok and you want to rub it in our faces. Ok, I got that too. I figured it all out.

Time for me to move on and you to go back to phariseeism.

Priest > Rakovsy when it comes to what the AOC is OK with when it comes to communion and accepting people into their church.

Maybe your church is a lot more strict.
"Open my lips, Lord, and my mouth will declare your praise." - Psalm 51:15

Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #452 on: January 12, 2017, 02:59:19 AM »
I don't go to the Melkite church anymore... Who cares what they say?

You're not Orthodox. You have not been formally received via ANY of the accepted ways into the Church. Stop perpetuating this delusion that you're Orthodox.  >:(

Countless people leave their ancestral churches to join Orthodoxy. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it is welcomed. So why don't you do the honest and honorable thing of properly and formally converting? What's stopping you?

Yes I have not been baptized in the Orthodox Church (the organizational set of churches... For lack of a better description).  But the Church I was baptized in follows orthodox theology.  So apparently from the view of the AO priests, it's OK for them because the meaning of the body and blood has the same meaning to me.

"Me, me me". That's what it's all about. Do you know better than both the Melkite and the Orthodox churches?

Do you know better than the AO priests that have already communed me?  Apparently you think you do.  Did you ace semenary?

Any liturgical and sacramental error they commit is on their head, and they will answer for it, and for the souls they have affected by their actions, in due time, either in this life or the next.

Do you not see that no-one here is supporting you in your wilful disregard of ANY advice which goes against what you keep asserting?

Maybe you are indirectly saying that the Antiochian Orthodox Church are committing errors?  Does this mean the entire AOC is condemned?
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #453 on: January 12, 2017, 03:00:44 AM »
She is directly saying that you are in error.
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Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #454 on: January 12, 2017, 03:01:41 AM »

See!!!! Now you're actually starting to ask good, meaningful questions!  So let me give you a short story:

Always went to Melkite church.  One day I got invited to AOC.  And I was like what the??? The Liturgy is EXACTLY the same.  How was this possible?  Melkite is under Catholic and Antiochan is Orthodox.  So I started to read a lot on the history.  It turned out that the AOC had internal strife that involved the Emperor that ended up sitting the church in two.  But when the Melkites started thier own church, they didn't change their theology or their Rite.  Then I started thinking to myself.. if the Melkites were originally AO, I should be going to the AOC instead because that is the "mother".

Then what's stopping you from converting properly?

The priests seem to be OK with my situation already.  They dont think I need conversion.
"Open my lips, Lord, and my mouth will declare your praise." - Psalm 51:15

Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #455 on: January 12, 2017, 03:02:24 AM »
She is directly saying that you are in error.

But not the church that is knowingly communing me?
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #456 on: January 12, 2017, 03:03:48 AM »
She is directly saying that you are in error.

But not the church that is knowingly communing me?

The priest is in error, yes. He should be reported to his Bishop.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #457 on: January 12, 2017, 03:03:56 AM »

See!!!! Now you're actually starting to ask good, meaningful questions!  So let me give you a short story:

Always went to Melkite church.  One day I got invited to AOC.  And I was like what the??? The Liturgy is EXACTLY the same.  How was this possible?  Melkite is under Catholic and Antiochan is Orthodox.  So I started to read a lot on the history.  It turned out that the AOC had internal strife that involved the Emperor that ended up sitting the church in two.  But when the Melkites started thier own church, they didn't change their theology or their Rite.  Then I started thinking to myself.. if the Melkites were originally AO, I should be going to the AOC instead because that is the "mother".

Then what's stopping you from converting properly?

The priests seem to be OK with my situation already.  They dont think I need conversion.

"Seem to be". "Don't think". Hmmm. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, eh?  ::)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:04:13 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #458 on: January 12, 2017, 03:06:08 AM »
I don't go to the Melkite church anymore... Who cares what they say?

You're not Orthodox. You have not been formally received via ANY of the accepted ways into the Church. Stop perpetuating this delusion that you're Orthodox.  >:(

Countless people leave their ancestral churches to join Orthodoxy. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it is welcomed. So why don't you do the honest and honorable thing of properly and formally converting? What's stopping you?

Yes I have not been baptized in the Orthodox Church (the organizational set of churches... For lack of a better description).  But the Church I was baptized in follows orthodox theology.  So apparently from the view of the AO priests, it's OK for them because the meaning of the body and blood has the same meaning to me.
AO priests-like any Orthodox priest-only stand in for Orthodox Bishops, described as those commemorated in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Pope Francis in the Vatican is not in said diptychs, and therefore anyone in communion with him is NOT in communion with said Orthodox bishops and hence with not in communion with any of their priests. Any priest with a different view is not only disobedient, but blind. And subject to defrocking.

Means the same? That's like saying it's all good that the marital embrace means the same, so do it with your neighbor's wife.
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Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #459 on: January 12, 2017, 03:10:05 AM »
She is directly saying that you are in error.

But not the church that is knowingly communing me?

The priest is in error, yes. He should be reported to his Bishop.

And all the other AO priests under different bishops? And all the AO priests in the middle East?

Do you have an AOC near you?  Check for yourself.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:11:03 AM by urg8rb8 »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #460 on: January 12, 2017, 03:11:42 AM »
She is directly saying that you are in error.

But not the church that is knowingly communing me?
No Church is knowingly communing you. Just disobedient priests. You might as well take it from Protestant pastors. At least they are honest in doing whatever they like, the Church be damned.
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #461 on: January 12, 2017, 03:11:50 AM »
But I have learned that the American Antiochian Orthodox Church appears to be OK with communing Melkites just like they do in the middle East.
Again, the actions or teachings of some priests doesn't make it right.

See here:
The Antiochian orthodox Church does not allow intercommunion with Cathilic Melkites:

Quote
In October, 1996 the Holy Synod of the Antiochian Orthodox Patriarchate issued a statement which included these concerns on the Melkite proposal:
"In this regard, our Church questions the unity of faith which the Melkite Catholics think has become possible. Our Church believes that the discussion of this unity with Rome is still in its primitive stage. The first step toward unity on the doctrinal level, is not to consider as ecumenical, the Western local councils which the Church of Rome, convened, separately, including the First Vatican Council.

"And second the Melkite Catholics should not be obligated to accept such councils. Regarding inter-communion now, our Synod believes that inter-communion cannot be separated from the unity of faith. Moreover, inter-communion is the last step in the quest for unity and not the first."In a letter to the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America, Metropolitan Philip also said:
"Please be advised that, while we pray for unity among all Christians, we cannot and will not enter into communion with non-Orthodox until we first achieve the unity of faith. As long as this unity of faith is not realized, there cannot be intercommunion. We ask you to adhere to the instructions which you receive from our office and hierarchs."
http://www.byzcath.org/index.php/33-document-library/documents-of-the-byzantine-catholic-churches/2770-the-melkite-initiative-with-the-antiochian-orthodox-church
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:14:47 AM by byhisgrace »
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #462 on: January 12, 2017, 03:12:19 AM »
If they all do it, then they are all in error; yes. You can continue to rationalize it all you want, it's still contrary to tradition. If it's not what the universal Church has always taught, then it is not part of the deposit of faith.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:13:38 AM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #463 on: January 12, 2017, 03:14:49 AM »
Turns out you DID admit your priest was unhappy about the idea of Melkites and EOs commonly intercommuning like it was no big deal :

Fact 1:  The Melkites and Antiochians generally intercommune in the Middle East because, well, that is the way it is. 



And my AEO priest seems to have calmed down and accepted that it is still ok to have "fact 1" even in the US. 

What do you mean seems to have calmed down?

I used the words that the Decan used.

If this made your priest the opposite of calm, why would he feel perfectly fine with giving you communion? Your story doesn't add up. It's not believable.

No I didn't mean it that way.  Again, I was using it in the context of the person using the phrase before me.  My priest never heistated.  Maybe he was never OK with it in the past, and if he wasn't, then he's calmed down about it now because he didn't hesitated to give it to me.
Well I will try to calm down too. You already know Melkites councils and their teachings are unorthodox and our church rules say Melkites can't  get regular communion, and that you didn't follow the format for conversion to orthodoxy from melkitism.

And your goal has just been to throw it in our faces that you do it anyway, like when you announced "there is no if, it is a fact that is happening".

Ok. I get it. You don't actually care about Orthodoxy. It's not in your heart and you still sing in the choir and get communion. Yes, I get it. Some people do those things. Probably phariseeism is more common than people realize.

Ok and you want to rub it in our faces. Ok, I got that too. I figured it all out.

Time for me to move on and you to go back to phariseeism.

Priest > Rakovsy when it comes to what the AOC is OK with when it comes to communion and accepting people into their church.

Maybe your church is a lot more strict.
Rakovsky > priest when the priest is disobedient to the Patriarchate of Antioch and Rakovsy upholds her Orthodox teaching.

Your Vaticanism is showing.
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Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #464 on: January 12, 2017, 03:20:29 AM »
If they all do it, then they are all in error; yes. You can continue to rationalize it all you want, it's still contrary to tradition. If it's not what the universal Church has always taught, then it is not part of the deposit of faith.

The Great Rakovsy just disagreed with everyone and said I don't need to be chrismated.

I'll tell you want.  One day I'll try to make my way to the diocese's Cathedral and see what the priest or Bishop there says about it.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:20:55 AM by urg8rb8 »
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #465 on: January 12, 2017, 03:25:51 AM »

Fact 1:  The Melkites and Antiochians generally intercommune in the Middle East because, well, that is the way it is. 
And my AEO priest seems to have calmed down and accepted that it is still ok to have "fact 1" even in the US.
Here is what his slip up actually means. He knows his priest had been unhappy and agitated against Melkites intercommuning as a common practice, and that his priest could still be very unhappy about it, hence "seems to" have calmed down.
So if his priest was unhappy about that concept, why would he make an exception for U.R.G8rBait?
He said it himself- unlike what is required for random EOs off the street, in order to get communion his priest "stipulated" he is required to be a regular attender, and join the parish if he wants communion and can't just walk in randomly as a Melkite and get communion.

That was the real story all along.
His priest does not regularly commune random Melkites either.

Was URG even telling people at his parish (didn't he say he was on parish council or something) that he considered himself Melkite, like he told us about himself, when he opened this thread?
I highly doubt it, based on his priest's unhappiness with intercommunion and unusual stipulation.

Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #466 on: January 12, 2017, 03:28:23 AM »

Fact 1:  The Melkites and Antiochians generally intercommune in the Middle East because, well, that is the way it is. 
And my AEO priest seems to have calmed down and accepted that it is still ok to have "fact 1" even in the US.
Here is what his slip up actually means. He knows his priest had been unhappy and agitated against Melkites intercommuning as a common practice, and that his priest could still be very unhappy about it, hence "seems to" have calmed down.
So if his priest was unhappy about that concept, why would he make an exception for U.R.G8rBait?
He said it himself- unlike what is required for random EOs off the street, in order to get communion his priest "stipulated" he is required to be a regular attender, and join the parish if he wants communion and can't just walk in randomly as a Melkite and get communion.

That was the real story all along.
His priest does not regularly commune random Melkites either.

Was URG even telling people at his parish (didn't he say he was on parish council or something) that he considered himself Melkite, like he told us about himself, when he opened this thread?
I highly doubt it, based on his priest's unhappiness with intercommunion and unusual stipulation.

You're my favorite on here for sure!  You always put a smile on my face.  :). Thank you!
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #467 on: January 12, 2017, 03:30:46 AM »

See!!!! Now you're actually starting to ask good, meaningful questions!  So let me give you a short story:

Always went to Melkite church.  One day I got invited to AOC.  And I was like what the??? The Liturgy is EXACTLY the same.  How was this possible?  Melkite is under Catholic and Antiochan is Orthodox.  So I started to read a lot on the history.  It turned out that the AOC had internal strife that involved the Emperor that ended up sitting the church in two.  But when the Melkites started thier own church, they didn't change their theology or their Rite.  Then I started thinking to myself.. if the Melkites were originally AO, I should be going to the AOC instead because that is the "mother".

Then what's stopping you from converting properly?

The priests seem to be OK with my situation already.  They dont think I need conversion.
Quote
THE OFFICE FOR RECEIVING INTO THE ORTHODOX FAITH SUCH PERSONS AS HAVE NOT PREVIOUSLY BEEN ORTHODOX, BUT HAVE BEEN REARED FROM INFANCY OUTSIDE THE ORTHODOX CHURCH, YET HAVE RECEIVED VALID BAPTISM, IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT *
The power of granting absolution to such persons, and of uniting them to the Church, properly devolveth on a Bishop. Nevertheless, that the converts to Orthodoxy may not be tempted to return to their heresy by reason of delay, it is wiser and more expedient that the Bishop should delegate his power, and grant his blessing therewith, to a Priest well versed in divine lore, and who is competent to instruct such a person in the articles of the Orthodox faith, and to correct his erroneous opinions.
it would seem your priest doesn't fit that bill.
Quote
Bishop: Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief that it doth not suffice it, to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal a Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, that is to say, of the whole Church?
Bishop: Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual power, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince: And that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor: And that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?
Bishop:  Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the (Ecumenical Councils, and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?
Service Book of the Holy Orthodox-Catholic Apostolic Church
https://books.google.com/books?id=fBk9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA454&dq=%22THE+OFFICE+FOR+RECEIVING+INTO+THE+ORTHODOX+FAITH%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKyZHsirzRAhUr64MKHa5CA6sQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22THE%20OFFICE%20FOR%20RECEIVING%20INTO%20THE%20ORTHODOX%20FAITH%22&f=false
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #468 on: January 12, 2017, 03:37:25 AM »
If they all do it, then they are all in error; yes. You can continue to rationalize it all you want, it's still contrary to tradition. If it's not what the universal Church has always taught, then it is not part of the deposit of faith.

The Great Rakovsy just disagreed with everyone and said I don't need to be chrismated.

I'll tell you want.  One day I'll try to make my way to the diocese's Cathedral and see what the priest or Bishop there says about it.
Everybody here agrees you at least need to reject your past teachings. That is the format for reception of East Catholics that St. A.Toth underwent, to his joy. Unlike St. A. Toth, you don't like that idea. You want to think Melkitism is true and orthodox so much, that you don't care if it actually is.

Fundamental issue here us not even probably the format of conversion, but spirituality and honesty and purity. If you are living a life saying the Melkite Councils are Eastern Orthodox and that your priest believes in intercommunion and that EO AND Melkite churches believe in intercommunion when you also know those are not true, then there is a fundamental spiritual issue. Coming in to Orthodox people and saying "HAHAHAHA" "It is a fact that is happening " is a fundamentally anti Orthodox way of heart.

EVEN IF YOU DID GET A FORMALLY CORRECT CONVERSION, your basic spiritual approach to the nature of communion, against the meaning of Orthodoxy, and to Orthodox people would still be there. You could still be singing in the choir twice a week and never have the real meaning of orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:37:47 AM by rakovsky »

Offline LBK

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #469 on: January 12, 2017, 03:42:29 AM »
If they all do it, then they are all in error; yes. You can continue to rationalize it all you want, it's still contrary to tradition. If it's not what the universal Church has always taught, then it is not part of the deposit of faith.

The Great Rakovsy just disagreed with everyone and said I don't need to be chrismated.


He also said that a formal confession of faith and formal renunciation of errors was also possible for reception. But nowhere has anyone here said that what you're doing is enough to become a member of the Orthodox Church. Baptism, chrismation or confession and renunciation are the traditional and canonical ways of reception of converts. Which one is appointed is up to the ruling bishop and the jurisdiction's policy.

There's simply no dodging this, urg8rb8. Either you do the honest and honourable thing and convert properly, or stop communing in a Church you don't belong to. What you're doing is spiritual adultery.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #470 on: January 12, 2017, 03:47:08 AM »


The priests seem to be OK with my situation already.  They dont think I need conversion.
Did you ever tell your priest when you signed up here you were still Melkite, and have you told him that you have NOT converted to orthodoxy?

 8)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:47:43 AM by rakovsky »

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #471 on: January 12, 2017, 03:52:12 AM »


He also said that a formal confession of faith and formal renunciation of errors was also possible for reception. But nowhere has anyone here said that what you're doing is enough to become a member of the Orthodox Church. Baptism, chrismation or confession and renunciation are the traditional and canonical ways of reception of converts. Which one is appointed is up to the ruling bishop and the jurisdiction's policy.

There's simply no dodging this, urg8rb8. Either you do the honest and honourable thing and convert properly, or stop communing in a Church you don't belong to. What you're doing is spiritual adultery.
LBK,
Do you realize that what actually happened is that his priest is unhappy with the concept of random Melites and EOs intercommuning regularly and he told "YouAreGatorBait" that he needs to attend regularly if he is going to get any communion?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:54:36 AM by rakovsky »

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #472 on: January 12, 2017, 04:16:01 AM »
Assuming his version is true, the priest might just be arbitrarily waiving the formal rejection of melkitism as ekonomia on the condition YouRGatorBait joined his parish.

But one reason the Church probably has this rule is because it doesn't want us to get things like the current situation where ex Melkites are teaching that Melkitism, with its ecumenical councils, is right belief.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:16:52 AM by rakovsky »

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #473 on: January 12, 2017, 04:16:46 AM »


He also said that a formal confession of faith and formal renunciation of errors was also possible for reception. But nowhere has anyone here said that what you're doing is enough to become a member of the Orthodox Church. Baptism, chrismation or confession and renunciation are the traditional and canonical ways of reception of converts. Which one is appointed is up to the ruling bishop and the jurisdiction's policy.

There's simply no dodging this, urg8rb8. Either you do the honest and honourable thing and convert properly, or stop communing in a Church you don't belong to. What you're doing is spiritual adultery.
LBK,
Do you realize that what actually happened is that his priest is unhappy with the concept of random Melites and EOs intercommuning regularly and he told "YouAreGatorBait" that he needs to attend regularly if he is going to get any communion?


Whether attendance is random or regular is irrelevant. Someone whose baptism is in a church not in communion with the Orthodox Church, and who has not been formally and properly received, should not be receiving communion at all.
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #474 on: January 12, 2017, 04:22:57 AM »
Assuming his version is true, the priest might just be arbitrarily waiving the formal rejection of melkitism as ekonomia on the condition YouRGatorBait joined his parish.

But one reason the Church probably has this rule is because it doesn't want us to get things like the current situation where ex Melkites are teaching that Melkitism, with its ecumenical councils, is right belief.

Irrelevant. Melkites aren't OO. They're under Rome. That's the line in the sand. Melkites have no more claim to commune in EO churches than Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, or any other non-Orthodox denomination.

While the Antiochian church might have some sort of "agreement" to commune OOs in specific circumstances and specific places, this is not allowed in most other EO jurisdictions under any circumstances.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:24:40 AM by LBK »
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #475 on: January 12, 2017, 04:26:26 AM »

Whether attendance is random or regular is irrelevant. Someone whose baptism is in a church not in communion with the Orthodox Church, and who has not been formally and properly received, should not be receiving communion at all.
I think the regular attendance demand might indicate the priest demanded GatorBait join his parish in order to get any communion. Joining a parish AFAIK is no requirement for EO guests to commune in that parish, so it means his priest doesn't actually think it's fine to have random regular intercommunion. I don't remember if GatorBait said he had to at least formally declare acceptance if orthodoxy, without renouncing melkitism.

If such a practical exception exists to the official format, he is showing that the exception wouldn't apply to his case. He says he never converted to Orthodoxy because Melkites are Orthodox.

If he thinks that he didnt convert and he doesn't accept our teaching on ecumenical councils, he is still melkite. I'm sure he hasn't made all these online statements to his priest about not converting and still accepting melkitism as true.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:30:29 AM by rakovsky »

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #476 on: January 12, 2017, 04:35:31 AM »
Assuming his version is true, the priest might just be arbitrarily waiving the formal rejection of melkitism as ekonomia on the condition YouRGatorBait joined his parish.

But one reason the Church probably has this rule is because it doesn't want us to get things like the current situation where ex Melkites are teaching that Melkitism, with its ecumenical councils, is right belief.

Irrelevant. Melkites aren't OO. They're under Rome. That's the line in the sand. Melkites have no more claim to commune in EO churches than Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, or any other non-Orthodox denomination.

While the Antiochian church might have some sort of "agreement" to commune OOs in specific circumstances and specific places, this is not allowed in most other EO jurisdictions under any circumstances.
What I mean is the E.Orthodox church accepts only 7 councils and not the 32 of the Melkites.
If he still says melkitism is orthodoxy, he is not accepting the EO teaching on councils.

To the best of my understanding, the situation formally on intercommunion with oos and RCS is the same, ie only in exceptional cases.

Formally speaking, I am aware of no reason for exception in GatorBaits case since he has RC churches he can go to.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:35:53 AM by rakovsky »

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #477 on: January 12, 2017, 04:39:40 AM »

I think the regular attendance demand might indicate the priest demanded GatorBait join his parish and convert in order to get any communion.

FIFY.

Quote
If such a practical exception exists to the official format, he is showing that the exception wouldn't apply to his case. He says he never converted to Orthodoxy because Melkites are Orthodox.

Which is more than enough reason to not be allowed to commune. What the OP "thinks" is irrelevant to whether he should receive. Heck, if catechumens have to wait, often a year or more, until they are formally received to be able to commune, the OP's apparent resistance to formally convert, while receiving communion, is all the more egregious.

Quote
If he thinks that he didnt convert and he doesn't accept our teaching on ecumenical councils, he is still melkite. I'm sure he hasn't made all these online statements to his priest about not converting and still accepting melkitism as true.

Pointing out inconsistencies in council legitimacy is all fine and dandy, but that's secondary. What it boils down to is this: No baptism/chrismation/formal renunciation, no communion. Simple.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:40:14 AM by LBK »
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #478 on: January 12, 2017, 04:45:28 AM »
A reason the EO church has the rules about rejecting past teachings is to stop situations like this.

His priest would not be happy if he found "GatorBait" was making these statements about never converting or melkitism being Orthodox faith or his communion being " a fact that is happening  ;D".

Even his username U R Gator Bait is predatory and aggressive.

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #479 on: January 12, 2017, 04:46:53 AM »
Quote
To the best of my understanding, the situation formally on intercommunion with oos and RCS is the same, ie only in exceptional cases.

There is no allowance for RCs to commune in EO churches. The only possible exception might be some regions of the Middle East. Which is not where the OP lives. And neither is the OP in an "exceptional" situation, even if there were such an allowance.
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #480 on: January 12, 2017, 04:49:28 AM »
Even his username U R Gator Bait is predatory and aggressive.

I think you're now overthinking things. You were doing very well when you were arguing against the OP's errors.  ;)
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #481 on: January 12, 2017, 04:50:59 AM »

I think the regular attendance demand might indicate the priest demanded GatorBait join his parish and convert in order to get any communion.

FIFY.

Quote
If such a practical exception exists to the official format, he is showing that the exception wouldn't apply to his case. He says he never converted to Orthodoxy because Melkites are Orthodox.

Which is more than enough reason to not be allowed to commune. What the OP "thinks" is irrelevant to whether he should receive.
Of course it's relevant if he thinks the melkite church with its 32 RC councils is Orthodoxy and that he never converted from the Melkite faith.

How can a Melkite become Right Teaching if they still think Melkite with its councils  is right teaching? That is not Orthodoxy.

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #482 on: January 12, 2017, 04:51:28 AM »
Quote
To the best of my understanding, the situation formally on intercommunion with oos and RCS is the same, ie only in exceptional cases.

There is no allowance for RCs to commune in EO churches. The only possible exception might be some regions of the Middle East. Which is not where the OP lives. And neither is the OP in an "exceptional" situation, even if there were such an allowance.
Right.

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #483 on: January 12, 2017, 04:53:05 AM »
Even his username U R Gator Bait is predatory and aggressive.

I think you're now overthinking things. You were doing very well when you were arguing against the OP's errors.  ;)
His whole attitude in this thread has been aggressive to orthodoxy like that, sorry.
 :(
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:53:30 AM by rakovsky »

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #484 on: January 12, 2017, 04:56:17 AM »
Of course it's relevant if he thinks the melkite church with its 32 RC councils is Orthodoxy and that he never converted from the Melkite faith.

And a good priest or catechist would make sure he understands and accepts this, before formal conversion. But the crux of the matter is that he is receiving the Eucharist without formally converting first, and without wanting to recognize why this is so very wrong.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:57:02 AM by LBK »
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #485 on: January 12, 2017, 05:18:52 AM »
Of course it's relevant if he thinks the melkite church with its 32 RC councils is Orthodoxy and that he never converted from the Melkite faith.

And a good priest or catechist would make sure he understands and accepts this, before formal conversion.
Yes.
Obviously he did not even have an EO catechist.
I am sure he never says this kind of thing at his parish like "I never converted" or "Melkites, who accept the RC councils, are Orthodox" or "I am still Melkite" like did when he signed up on this forum.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 05:30:16 AM by rakovsky »

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #486 on: January 12, 2017, 07:50:29 AM »
Assuming his version is true, the priest might just be arbitrarily waiving the formal rejection of melkitism as ekonomia on the condition YouRGatorBait joined his parish.

But one reason the Church probably has this rule is because it doesn't want us to get things like the current situation where ex Melkites are teaching that Melkitism, with its ecumenical councils, is right belief.

Irrelevant. Melkites aren't OO. They're under Rome. That's the line in the sand. Melkites have no more claim to commune in EO churches than Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, or any other non-Orthodox denomination.

While the Antiochian church might have some sort of "agreement" to commune OOs in specific circumstances and specific places, this is not allowed in most other EO jurisdictions under any circumstances.

What makes OOs so special?  If not in communion means not in communion then why OK for OOs?  You're probably just confusing yourself because they have the word "Orthodox" in their title.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 07:58:50 AM by urg8rb8 »
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #487 on: January 12, 2017, 07:56:20 AM »
Even his username U R Gator Bait is predatory and aggressive.

I think you're now overthinking things. You were doing very well when you were arguing against the OP's errors.  ;)

He's been over thinking from the beginning! Haha
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #488 on: January 12, 2017, 08:08:39 AM »

What makes OOs so special?  If not in communion means not in communion then why OK for OOs?

It's not "OK for OOs" at all. What is the case is that one church, Antioch, has, in certain geographic places, and for specific and extraordinary circumstances, allowed OOs to commune in their churches on a case-by-case basis. It is not "open slather" intercommunion. To my knowledge, none of the other Orthodox churches agree with this policy, and certainly don't allow it in their own churches, under any circumstances. The jurisdictions I've been a part of over the decades certainly don't allow it, and will not allow it unless and until there is formal canonical reunion between OOs and EOs, something which is unlikely to happen for generations.

Quote
You're probably just confusing yourself because they have the word "Orthodox" in their title.

Your presumption is as great as your arrogance.
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #489 on: January 12, 2017, 08:12:07 AM »
Even his username U R Gator Bait is predatory and aggressive.

I think you're now overthinking things. You were doing very well when you were arguing against the OP's errors.  ;)

He's been over thinking from the beginning! Haha

Says he who has been defiantly thoughtless in his cavalier attitude to the holiest of things.  ::)

Partaking of the Eucharist is no joke. Have you looked at the Orthodox pre- and post-communion prayers as suggested many pages ago?

« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 08:13:55 AM by LBK »
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #490 on: January 12, 2017, 09:58:08 AM »
Your presumption is as great as your arrogance.

I'm just trying to fit in!
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #491 on: January 12, 2017, 09:59:11 AM »
Even his username U R Gator Bait is predatory and aggressive.

I think you're now overthinking things. You were doing very well when you were arguing against the OP's errors.  ;)

He's been over thinking from the beginning! Haha

Says he who has been defiantly thoughtless in his cavalier attitude to the holiest of things.  ::)

Partaking of the Eucharist is no joke. Have you looked at the Orthodox pre- and post-communion prayers as suggested many pages ago?

Yes.
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #492 on: January 12, 2017, 10:33:30 AM »
There is no point to you making this thread except to make orthodox feel uncomfortable that their "holy mysteries" are getting abused, since you never cared what we have to say in the first place or what our church teaches.

lol
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #493 on: January 12, 2017, 10:39:13 AM »
I wouldnt even be surprised if he was somebody i know's sockpuppet.

Funny...sometimes I think that about you!
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #494 on: January 12, 2017, 10:52:06 AM »
I wouldnt even be surprised if he was somebody i know's sockpuppet.

Funny...sometimes I think that about you!

He's just projecting on me. haha
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