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Author Topic: Jebusite Melchizedek?  (Read 3654 times) Average Rating: 0
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Truth_or_Bust
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« on: August 27, 2005, 07:13:23 PM »

Greetings,
This is my first post to this forum and I wanted to tell a little about myself before I present this topic.
I am not an Orthodox Christian but at this stage IÂÂ  can only say that I study the Bible.ÂÂ  At the age of
13 I "accepted Christ as my personal saviour" at a Baptist Church I attended but fell out of interest with
that style of worship.ÂÂ  At the age of 23 I got involved in a fringe Christian movement called "Anglo Israelism"
but after deep study found that to be wanting as well.ÂÂ  Being involved in that movement got me deep into studying the Bible and
now, at 36, I still find myself drawn to searching out the scriptures even though I have not found my Spiritual home within Christiandom.ÂÂ  
This brings me to the topic.

From my studies the Jebusites, Amorites and Hittites were the inhabitants of Jerusalem well before the Israelites
arrived in the Holy Land.ÂÂ  Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek during the Jebusite rule of Jerusalem and it is widely believed that
the Jebusites were in control of Jerusalem during David's campaign into the city.ÂÂ  This brings up a few items that have
been nagging at me for many months.ÂÂ  Firstly, if the Melchizedek priesthood is a Jebusite order (to which David alligned himself
after taking Jerusalem) I find it quite odd that they are listed amongst the seven nations who are enemies of the Israelites.
The Israelites are forbidden to mix in with these other nations lest they be lead away from their religion.ÂÂ  Well, the Melchizedeks would
certainly fall under that catagory.  Secondly, we see that Christ reestablished the Melchizedek priesthood in place of the "eternal" Levitical Priesthood which the Apostle Paul called "weak and useless".  ÃƒÆ’‚ Indeed, the bread and wine ritual references back to the Melchizedeks of Old who gave Abraham the same.  ÃƒÆ’‚ What is the Orthodox position on the Jebusites being enemies of the Israelites while at the same time being the very Melchizedek priesthood reestablished by Christ?  I am pondering this in light of the statement made by Christ which states concerning the Jewish Israelites which proclaims "The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bearing much fruit".  Could this be the power shifting back to the Melchizedeks away from the Levitical?

I am very interested in learning what Orthodoxy migh have to say on this mystery.

Thanks,
Truth_or_Bust
« Last Edit: August 27, 2005, 07:16:41 PM by Truth_or_Bust » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2005, 09:49:51 PM »

For starters, who says Melchizedek was a Jebusite?

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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2005, 09:40:39 AM »

Melchizedek was not a Jebusite. The order of Melchizedek was started by Christ. If we remember, Melchizedek appears only for a short period of time. We know little about him, only that he is a very high ranking levitical figure since the High Priest has to pay a tithe to him. Also, we know that the Order of Melchizedek represents the eternal priesthood to which all priests in the Orthodox church are ordained. But Melchizedek was never proven to have been an actual living being outside of the time that he appears and dissapears. No one knows his origins or what happened to him. If anyone wants to add anything, feel free.

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Truth_or_Bust
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2005, 10:47:27 AM »

There is much on the Jebusite/Melchizedek connection:


This from http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0010bt.asp

The Law of Moses was always and only meant to be observed by the Jewish people. We see in the Old Testament many non-Jews who were worshipers of the true God, such as Melchizedek the Jebusite and Jethro the Midianite, who were both priests of God (Ex. 3:1, 18:12), Balaam the Pethorite, who was a prophet of God (Num. 22:18—19), and Naaman the Syrian, who came to worship God and was in no way asked to embrace the Mosaic Law (2 Kgs. 5:15—19).

Also:

Eugene H. Merrill, “Royal Priesthood: An Old Testament Messianic Motif,” BibSac 150 (1993): 60. See also Kraus, Theology, 111, who says, “Following the ancient Jebusite order, the Davidic kings were priest kings, ‘after the order of Melchizedek.’

Also from http://www.c-c-c.freeserve.co.uk/nr3-03.htm

“Araunah the king” — surely because, as a native Jebusite, he was the descendant of Melchizedek, the priest-king of Salem; and thus his threshing floor was the original site of the shrine of El Elyon, the local deity of Salem. And now David, the servant of YHWH, is taking it over, and taking over, too, Araunah’s titles and functions, himself becoming officially priest-king of YHWH/El Elyon. Now see Ps 110:4: “YHWH said to my Lord: Sit on my right... YHWH has sworn an oath he will not change: You are a priest for ever according to the order of Melchizedek”.

Also http://www.bible.org/netbible/gen14_notes.htm

Salem is traditionally identified as the Jebusite stronghold of old Jerusalem. Accordingly, there has been much speculation about its king. Though some have identified him with the preincarnate Christ or with Noah’s son Shem, it is far more likely that Melchizedek was a Canaanite royal priest whom God used to renew the promise of the blessing to Abram, perhaps because Abram considered Melchizedek his spiritual superior.

*my note: why would it be unreasonable to think Christ became incarnate as a Jebusite in Jerusalem during Abraham's time?

Also from: http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/96inter.html

In the encounter with Melchizedek, Abraham makes a covenant with a Jebusite priest who worships El Elyon, a Name eventually taken over by Israel for God. Melchizedek and his people are outside the covenant God is making with Abraham, but still recognized on a spiritual level.

Also: Dr Peter Pett BA BD(Hons) London DD:

In 2 Samuel 8.18 we are told that David’s sons were ‘priests’. This probably refers to their status in Jerusalem in the old Jebusite priesthood of Melchizedek, which David as conqueror would inherit. It was an intercessory and status-giving priesthood rather than a sacrificing priesthood, and would give them important status in Jerusalem. Others have suggested that the word also meant ‘high officials’

There is much more that can be posted but the idea is well laid out.ÂÂ  Of course, with any topic, there are those who refute but, from my studies, it seems quite reasonable that the Melchizedek order was originally Jebusite.

Respectfully submitted,
Truth or Bust








« Last Edit: August 29, 2005, 10:50:56 AM by Truth_or_Bust » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2005, 05:23:37 PM »

Thanks Truth or Bust,

for starting up an interesting discussion.ÂÂ  We have been interested in this order as well...and the order of Mechisedek are those that are called into this priesthood by Him, it is a heavenly priesthood and it is an immortal priesthood....ÂÂ  

And Lord Jesus Christ is our highpriest, and intercedes for us, and I am so glad that we have Him and this divine priesthood, for the earthly has fallen short....I have learnt a lot from Hebrews 7 but also being shown Romans 2:7 relates to the Melchisedek priesthood...

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life...Romans 2:7

and those that are a part of this priesthood, do not get bogged down with the tithe system.....for this is a dead system and is a part of the old covenant, even though Abraham gave to Melchisedek.......of which we were set free from and given the system of sowing and giving....we give and sow all that we are required too...and there is no such thing anymore of 10%, only for those that it was given to not be set free from at present...shall we just give 10% to our Lord? nor do they caught up into the world's ways.....they are set apart.....and yet still go into the world when led....and yet are not a part of the world....or its ways.ÂÂ  

If we are truly Lord Jesus Christ's then we are a part of this Melchisedek system....

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Hebrews 7:19

And it is far more evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake concerning priesthood.ÂÂ  And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest.ÂÂ  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.ÂÂ  For He testifieth Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.....Hebrews 7:14-17

Also Truth and Bust can understand that there are many christian systems in this world, that do not meet ur need, for it was this way for us too...and then He saved us and led us and we have not regretted walking away from the false and into the beauty of Him and His way...and His teaching through Him.....and it is beautiful to have searching questions to that the world's ways and explanations can not satisfy nor answer...for this leads to His answers, Life and intimacy....

also there is a lot of seperation at present and continuing to be seperation but the Jews and the Gentiles will be reconciling when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in...this fullness relates to operating in the fullness of Him and the Melchisedek Priesthood relates to the Body of Christ, and to the gentiles and Jews that follow Him and the Jewish people still deny Him, but that is changing, for the winds of change are happening......and the one that will be leading this reconciliation is Lord Jesus Christ, for He is our reconciler...reconciling us back to God and ourselves..... and there is a reconciliation ministery of which people are being called into at present to prepare to help Lord Jesus Christ, and so for them it is a period of rest and bathing in His Grace, for what they are about to do....to help with the process ofÂÂ  the impossible becoming the possible...

Can u imagine if all Lord Jesus Christ's people were no longer scattered or seperated or divided...and we all came together in the fullness and completion of Him....and His Love....Wow what Body that would be.....bright, radiant, illuminating, majestic and graceful....as dazzling as our morning and day star is...
 
Zion Abraham  ÃƒÆ’‚  
« Last Edit: August 29, 2005, 05:42:52 PM by graceheart7 » Logged
Ras Salem
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2010, 01:31:43 PM »

Truth.  Melchizedek is an immortal man who lives and is High Priest continually.  He is High Priest forever above all including Christ.  He is the Father of the Priesthood.  He was not a Jeb.  remmber that upon taking on the Priesthood you are given his name as a title so the jebusite was a Melchizedek not Melchizedek himself.  It is not of the leviticul priesthood.  It predates this.  Gen 14:18.  It is also called the Brotherhood of the White Light which deals with the seven rays of light.  The Mel. Order holds all the secrets to every and all things.  Creation,Man,God the universe and so forth.  I am a Melchizedek High Priest Bless'ed Love
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2010, 02:48:02 PM »


 Huh

Huh?

Is this for real?

So, do all Ethiopian Orthodox believe this to be true?


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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2010, 03:22:23 PM »

According to Jewish tradition, Melchizedek is actually Shem son of Noah.
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1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 03:39:21 PM »

Bless'ed Love To All,  The Man known as Melchizedek predates all whom are spoken of so far.  Salem in all actuallity is Called Mesopatamia.  Salem means "Peace"  Jerusalem means "New City of Peace", these are titles not actual names of places.  Melchizedek and the priesthood were stablished meaning before the earth was created.  So far there are only three people in the bible who simply came into existance.  Melchizedek,Adam, and Eve.  Everyone else passed thru the womb.  He lives continually. Heb. 7 "No mother no father, no beginning nor end of days, like unto the son of God, a priest continually" 
-No mother no father-no pedigree
-No begininng nor end of days-immortal the age he appeared on earth is the age he remains
-like unto the son of God-actually means the son of God
-a priest continually-meaning forever

"King of Salem, King of Righteousness"  As already stated "Salem" means "Peace" and to be righteous is to be sinless which as you can see Melchizedek is King.  so clearly this immortal man lives and abideth a priest continually which is why he is in the old and new testament.  He was not a Jebusite and as a Melchizedek High Priest it is my obligation to inform all that the title Melchizedek is given to all High Priest of the order.  Bless'ed Love
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2010, 03:47:15 PM »

Interesting.  I wonder if in JRR Tolkien's religious studies he came across these stories about Melchizidek and used them as a basis for Tom Bombadil?
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2010, 03:51:00 PM »


 Huh

Huh?

Is this for real?

So, do all Ethiopian Orthodox believe this to be true?




His beliefs are somewhat different from those of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.  This is being discussed currently in the Oriental Orthodox section:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28793.msg454402.html#top


Ras Salem:

I think it best that we keep discussion of your beliefs in one thread.  Please discuss it in the above linked thread.  It's just easier for everyone to understand that way.   Smiley

Thanks.

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Ras Salem
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2010, 04:01:07 PM »

Huh???Am I being quarintined because the information is so different from what everyone may know?  Does this mean that people are offended?  Does the simple fact that you might not know what Im referring to mean that Im incorrect?  Please elaborate.....
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2010, 04:41:30 PM »

Huh???Am I being quarintined because the information is so different from what everyone may know?  Does this mean that people are offended?  Does the simple fact that you might not know what Im referring to mean that Im incorrect?  Please elaborate.....

I think Salpy is just concerned (rightly, IMO) that your highly idiosyncratic beliefs might confuse people. Some people have been mistaking your views as the official stance of the EOTC. Salpy just wants to avoid that confusion. I wouldn't take it as any sort of personal affront, not to say that's the way you'd take it. Smiley

I assume you're free to comment elsewhere if you avoid preaching your more unusual claims.
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1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 04:47:31 PM »

Huh???Am I being quarintined because the information is so different from what everyone may know?  Does this mean that people are offended?  Does the simple fact that you might not know what Im referring to mean that Im incorrect?  Please elaborate.....

It's not a quarantine.   Smiley  It's just confusing to try to understand your group's beliefs when your explanations are scattered amongst different threads in different places.  If it is all in one thread, it makes it easier for people to understand.  Smiley

It's just how we organize things here at this site. 
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2010, 05:02:02 PM »

I think Salpy is just concerned (rightly, IMO) that your highly idiosyncratic beliefs might confuse people. Some people have been mistaking your views as the official stance of the EOTC. Salpy just wants to avoid that confusion. I wouldn't take it as any sort of personal affront, not to say that's the way you'd take it.

I assume you're free to comment elsewhere if you avoid preaching your more unusual claims.

Bless'ed Love To All, I humbly apologize to all I didnt know that I was in the presence of the all knowing supreme beings whom nothing but the truth and have nothing but the absolute facts about all religion.  So my views are idiosyncratic because they are not like yours? Also I love the Father and no man or opinion will make me deviate from studying. I take no offense to what anyone says about the God I serve. Se'lah
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2010, 05:06:15 PM »

I would like to say that I do apologize to whomever may take offense to what I have submitted but I would also like to say that I took no offense that your beliefs are different from mine nor did I label them idiosyncratic.  Im not here to judge but to learn more and better myself.  To attain salvation. No More no less Se'lah!!!
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2010, 05:19:53 PM »

I would like to say that I do apologize to whomever may take offense to what I have submitted but I would also like to say that I took no offense that your beliefs are different from mine nor did I label them idiosyncratic.  Im not here to judge but to learn more and better myself.  To attain salvation. No More no less Se'lah!!!

Your views *are* idiosyncratic in the root sense of that word, in that they are not widely shared. It was not meant as a pejorative.

Then again, sadly, Orthodoxy itself is becoming increasingly 'idiosyncratic' in that sense in this day and age. Smiley

Might I suggest that if you are on this forum to "attain salvation" you may be in the wrong place lol.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 05:20:29 PM by JLatimer » Logged

1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2010, 05:31:08 PM »

My Beloved I believe earth is the wrong place.  The world is so misguided that we basically quarrel and fight amongst each other instead of love.  I really hope that we all truelly can attain the aquarian era of fraternal spirit and be made into one body in my lifetime to truelly praise the Father.  Bless'ed Love
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2010, 05:36:29 PM »

I really hope that we all truelly can attain the aquarian era of fraternal spirit

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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2010, 05:57:17 PM »

I really hope that we all truelly can attain the aquarian era of fraternal spirit



LOL

By the way, Ras Salem, do you use Dr Bronner's soap by any chance?
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1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2010, 06:07:26 PM »

Sorry but you lost me in the last two comments why have I been quoted and why ask me about a type of soap.  hope you are not being sarcastic..........
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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2010, 06:09:15 PM »

Sorry but you lost me in the last two comments why have I been quoted and why ask me about a type of soap.  hope you are not being sarcastic..........

Your preaching just reminds me of the stuff written on the Dr Bronner's bottle.

As to your being quoted, are you familiar with concept of the 'face-palm'?
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1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
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« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2010, 06:19:38 PM »

Im going to humbly ask you one more time are you trying to be sarcastic and what I have relayed is no sermon.
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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2010, 12:09:07 PM »

A post with unique beliefs was split off and put here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28913.msg457050.html#msg457050

I would like to keep the discussion in that thread.  Thanks.
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« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2010, 01:01:50 PM »

From my studies the Jebusites, Amorites and Hittites were the inhabitants of Jerusalem well before the Israelites arrived in the Holy Land.

Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek during the Jebusite rule of Jerusalem and it is widely believed that
the Jebusites were in control of Jerusalem during David's campaign into the city.
This brings up a few items that have
been nagging at me for many months.
Firstly, if the Melchizedek priesthood is a Jebusite order (to which David alligned himself
after taking Jerusalem) I find it quite odd that they are listed amongst the seven nations who are enemies of the Israelites.
The Israelites are forbidden to mix in with these other nations lest they be lead away from their religion.

Well, the Melchizedeks would certainly fall under that catagory.

Was there any answer to the OP about whether Melchisedek was a gentile Jebusite?

I am pondering this in light of the statement made by Christ which states concerning the Jewish Israelites which proclaims "The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bearing much fruit". (Matthew 21:43 )
I am very interested in learning what Orthodoxy migh have to say on this mystery.

Thanks,
Truth_or_Bust


Does Matthew 21:43 also negate Christian Zionism?
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