Author Topic: Galatians versus Acts  (Read 5320 times)

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Offline servant_wayne

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Galatians versus Acts
« on: February 21, 2003, 10:23:58 AM »
In an effort to rescue Acts from itself and its contradictions of Galatians, apologists try to confound the confused by dazzling them with lofty sounding technical terms. One such term most favored by apologists is exegesis, a crafty device used for scriptural interpretations. In other words, with claiming to draw out the meaning of a scripture they are using this ploy to read things into it that will uphold their desired interpretation or agenda. It is through use of exegesis that they try to dismiss an obvious contradiction, where Paul says that after his conversion he went but twice to Jerusalem, while Acts is saying that he went three times.

Apologists, who rightly acknowledge that Galatians 1 & 2 and Acts 9 & 15 are concerned with the same matters, are trying to rescue Acts from itself by claiming Paul simply felt the visit mentioned in Acts 11 was not relevant to his argument. They claim it is for this reason that he did not mention it in Galatians. Others, who are embarrassed by contradictions between Galatians 2 and Acts 15, are trying to claim that Galatians 2 equals Acts 11, and Acts 15 occurred at a later date. If they are not questioning Paul's credibility of when he says he went to Jerusalem it is an absurd claim, for it has Paul being converted before the death of Jesus!

Acts 11:30 ends with Barnabas and Saul being sent to Jerusalem and Acts 12:1 begins with "Now about that time," thus these accounts are concerned with what occurred during the time that Barnabas and Saul were sent to Jerusalem. In Acts12:23 Herod Agrippa dies and shortly after that it is said that Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem. It is believed that Jesus was crucified around 30 AD and it is a matter of historical record that Herod Agrippa died in 44 AD. Therefore, there are 14 years between the death of Jesus and Herod Agrippa, 44 AD - 30 AD. Whereas in Galatians, Paul says he waited 3 years after returning from Arabia before going to Jerusalem and that he went again 14 years later. This is 17years. Therefore, to claim Galatians 2:1-10 is the visit of Acts 11:30 without saying the accounts in Galatians are wrong means Paul's conversion occurred before the death of Jesus.

To consider all the evidence concerning contradictions between Galatians and Acts go here: http://members.cox.net/galatians/house1.html
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Offline Robert

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2003, 11:01:46 AM »
WAYNE'S WORLD..PARTY TIME..EXCELLENT!

Not sure what your agenda is here Wayne, but this is an Orthodox board, please keep that in mind.
Bobby

Offline servant_wayne

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2003, 11:18:56 AM »
Unless I'm mistaken, I assumed you believe the Bible is inspired of God?
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Offline Robert

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2003, 11:20:14 AM »
Actually I believe the bible is the best piece of secular literature on the planet.

Bobby

Offline David

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2003, 12:28:20 PM »
I can save everyone a bit of reading to find out what is at that site.  "HARRINGTON SITES Revealing the Spiritual duality of the Bible, whose conflicting duality sows good or evil according to the nature of one's Spiritual heart."

Servant_Wayne,

If you wish to become a member here and abide by forum rules, you are more than welcome.  Your first post seems to be no more than a troll plugging your heterodox bible interpretation website.  I do not wish to debate with you, but it seems that your problem is not with the koine text, but with the King James translation.  God bless you!
"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
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Offline servant_wayne

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2003, 12:47:04 PM »
I'm not familiar with the "koine text." However if it includes perverse things such as 1 Samuel 15:2-3 and the Orthodox Church claims that such things speak truthfully of God, then I have a problem with it.
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Offline Monkey

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2003, 12:55:26 PM »
Koine Greek is the original language of both Acts and Galatians.

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2003, 01:00:57 PM »
1 Samuel 15:1
+¦+¦+¦ +¦+¦-Ç+¦++ -â+¦++++-à ++++ -Ç-ü++-é -â+¦++-à ++ +¦+++¦ +¦-Ç+¦-â-ä+¦+¦+++¦++ +¦-à -ü+¦++-é -ç-ü+¦-â+¦+¦ -â+¦ +¦+¦-é +¦+¦-â+¦+++¦+¦ +¦-Ç+¦ +¦-â-ü+¦++++ +¦+¦+¦ ++-à ++ +¦+¦++-à +¦ -ä++-é -Ã¥-ë++++-é +¦-à -ü+¦++-Ã

1 Samuel 15:2
-ä+¦+¦+¦ +¦+¦-Ç+¦++ +¦-Ã -ü+¦++-é -â+¦+¦+¦-ë++ ++-Ã ++ +¦+¦+¦+¦+¦++-â-ë +¦ +¦-Ç+++¦++-â+¦++ +¦+++¦+++++¦ -ä-ë +¦-â-ü+¦++++ -ë-é +¦-Ç++++-ä++-â+¦++ +¦-Ã -ä-ë +¦++ -ä++ +++¦-ë +¦+++¦+¦+¦+¦++++++-ä++-é +¦-Ã -ä++-Ã  +¦++ +¦+¦+¦-Ã -Ç-ä++-Ã

1 Samuel 15:3
+¦+¦+¦ ++-Ã ++ -Ç++-ü+¦-Ã ++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦-ä+¦+++¦+¦-é -ä++++ +¦+++¦+++++¦ +¦+¦+¦ +¦+¦-ü+¦++ +¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦++-ä+¦ -ä+¦ +¦-Ã -ä++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦ ++-Ã  -Ç+¦-ü+¦-Ç+++¦++-â++ +¦++ +¦-Ã -ä++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦ +¦+++++++¦++-ü+¦-Ã -â+¦+¦-é +¦-Ã -ä++++ +¦+¦+¦ +¦+++¦+++¦+++¦-ä+¦+¦+¦-é +¦-Ã -ä++++ +¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦++-ä+¦ -ä+¦ +¦-Ã -ä++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦ ++-Ã  -Ã¥+¦+¦-â++ +¦-Ç' +¦-Ã -ä++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦ +¦-Ç+++¦-ä+¦+++¦+¦-é +¦-Ç++ +¦+++¦-ü++-é +¦+¦+¦ +¦-ë-é +¦-Ã +++¦+¦+¦++-é +¦+¦+¦ +¦-Ç++ ++++-Ç+¦++-Ã  +¦-ë-é +++++++¦+¦++++-ä++-é +¦+¦+¦ +¦-Ç++ ++++-â-ç++-Ã  +¦-ë-é -Ç-ü+++¦+¦-ä++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦ +¦-Ç++ +¦+¦++++++++-Ã  +¦-ë-é ++++++-Ã

1 Samuel 15:4
+¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦-ü+++¦+¦+¦+¦+++¦++ -â+¦++-à ++ -ä-ë +++¦-ë +¦+¦+¦ +¦-Ç+¦-â+¦+¦-Ç-ä+¦-ä+¦+¦ +¦-à -ä++-à -é +¦++ +¦+¦+++¦+¦+++++¦-é -ä+¦-ä-ü+¦+¦++-â+¦+¦-é -ç+¦+++¦+¦+¦+¦-é -ä+¦+¦+++¦-ä-ë++ +¦+¦+¦ -ä++++ +¦++-à +¦+¦++ -ä-ü+¦+¦+¦++++-ä+¦ -ç+¦+++¦+¦+¦+¦-é -ä+¦+¦+++¦-ä-ë++

1 Samuel 15:5
+¦+¦+¦ +++++++¦++ -â+¦++-à ++ +¦-ë-é -ä-ë++ -Ç+++++¦-ë++ +¦+++¦+++++¦ +¦+¦+¦ +¦+++++¦-ü+¦-à -â+¦++ +¦++ -ä-ë -ç+¦+¦+++¦-ü-ü-ë

1 Samuel 15:6
+¦+¦+¦ +¦+¦-Ç+¦++ -â+¦++-Ã ++ -Ç-ü++-é -ä++++ +¦+¦+++¦+¦++++ +¦-Ç+¦+++++¦ +¦+¦+¦ +¦+¦+¦+++¦++++++ +¦+¦ +++¦-â++-Ã  -ä++-Ã  +¦+++¦+++++¦+¦-ä++-Ã  ++++ -Ç-ü++-â++-ë -â+¦ +++¦-ä' +¦-Ã -ä++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦ -â-Ã  +¦-Ç+++¦++-â+¦-é +¦+++¦++-é +++¦-ä+¦ -ä-ë++ -Ã +¦-ë++ +¦-â-ü+¦++++ +¦++ -ä-ë +¦+++¦+¦+¦+¦+++¦+¦++ +¦-Ã -ä++-Ã -é +¦++ +¦+¦+¦-Ã -Ç-ä++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦ +¦+++¦+¦+++¦+++¦++ ++ +¦+¦+++¦+¦++-é +¦+¦ +++¦-â++-Ã  +¦+++¦+++++¦

1 Samuel 15:7
+¦+¦+¦ +¦-Ç+¦-ä+¦+++¦++ -â+¦++-Ã ++ -ä++++ +¦+++¦+++++¦ +¦-Ç++ +¦-Ã +¦+++¦-ä +¦-ë-é -â++-Ã -ü +¦-Ç+¦ -Ç-ü++-â-ë-Ç++-Ã  +¦+¦+¦-Ã -Ç-ä++-Ã

1 Samuel 15:8
+¦+¦+¦ -â-à +++¦+++¦+¦+¦++ -ä++++ +¦+¦+¦+¦ +¦+¦-â+¦+++¦+¦ +¦+++¦+++++¦ +¦-ë++-ä+¦ +¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦++-ä+¦ -ä++++ +++¦++++ +¦+¦-ü+¦++ +¦-Ç+¦+¦-ä+¦+¦+++¦++ +¦++ -â-ä+++++¦-ä+¦ -ü++++-å+¦+¦+¦-é

1 Samuel 15:9
+¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦-ü+¦+¦-Ç+++¦++-â+¦-ä++ -â+¦++-à ++ +¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦-é ++ +++¦++-é -ä++++ +¦+¦+¦+¦ +¦-ë++-ä+¦ +¦+¦+¦ -ä+¦ +¦+¦+¦+++¦ -ä-ë++ -Ç+++¦+++++¦-ë++ +¦+¦+¦ -ä-ë++ +¦++-à +¦+++++¦-ë++ +¦+¦+¦ -ä-ë++ +¦+¦+¦-â+++¦-ä-ë++ +¦+¦+¦ -ä-ë++ +¦++-Ç+¦++-ë++-ë++ +¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦++-ä-ë++ -ä-ë++ +¦+¦+¦++-ë++ +¦+¦+¦ ++-à +¦ +¦+¦++-à +++¦-ä++ +¦-à -ä+¦ +¦+++++++¦++-ü+¦-à -â+¦+¦ +¦+¦+¦ -Ç+¦++ +¦-ü+¦++++ ++-ä+¦++-ë+++¦++++++ +¦+¦+¦ +¦++++-à +¦+¦++-ë+++¦++++++ +¦++-ë+++¦++-ü+¦-à -â+¦++

1 Samuel 15:10
+¦+¦+¦ +¦+¦+¦++++++++ -ü+++++¦ +¦-Ã -ü+¦++-Ã  -Ç-ü++-é -â+¦++++-Ã ++++ +++¦+¦-ë++

« Last Edit: February 21, 2003, 01:01:31 PM by Nicholas »
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Offline servant_wayne

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2003, 01:01:26 PM »
thanks
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Offline Aklie Semaet

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2003, 01:09:54 PM »
I'm not familiar with the "koine text." However if it includes perverse things such as 1 Samuel 15:2-3 and the Orthodox Church claims that such things speak truthfully of God, then I have a problem with it.

And what does any of that have to do with the original topic of your thread? I thought it was Galatians and Acts but now you are talking about I Samuel.

What is reveals is that you are just using this thread as the basis for some kind of hidden agenda, the scope of which is not yet obvious, but no doubt will reveal itslef as time goes on.

I can see why Protestants ended up with a shorter Bible; continually editing it and removing things that they found “perverse.”

There is nothing perverse in the Bible and there are no contradictions.
Ethiopia ijochwan wede Egzabiher tezregalech

Offline servant_wayne

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2003, 01:25:12 PM »
 It doesn't matter what translation is used. The point of my post is Acts is contradicting Galatians!
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Offline Robert

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2003, 01:41:04 PM »
Ever see Wayne's World?

Bobby

Offline Monkey

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2003, 01:41:58 PM »
The point of my post is Acts is contradicting Galatians!

Rather, your interpretation of Acts contradicts your interpretation of Galatians. Perhaps it is your interpretation that is wrong.

Offline servant_wayne

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2003, 03:15:33 PM »
Ok, tell me where to locate an English translation of the koine text, and I'll look at it.
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Offline Brigid of Kildare

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2003, 03:17:50 PM »
Ever see Wayne's World?

Bobby

Bobby,

I checked in to this Wayne's world just now and my heart sank at what I saw:

"Over the years I have posted thousands of messages and essays on the Internet concerning Biblical absurdities and contradictions. I have posted these messages and essays on thousands of religious sites, on their message boards, and in their forums. And to this day, I continue doing that in obedience to what God has commanded of me".

Not Worthy!

Brigid

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn

Offline Frobie

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2003, 03:49:12 PM »
That's a great film, Bobby. I especially like the part where they listen to Queen and headbang. Gnarley!

Offline Robert

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2003, 04:08:20 PM »
English translations are heretical!

Bobby

Offline servant_wayne

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2003, 05:15:30 PM »
"English translations are heretical!"

Gee, what a pity! That means we have to learn Greek, or worse yet, rely on others to tell us what it means. You would think that God would have known that and made other arrangements, wouldn't you?
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Offline Robert

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2003, 05:17:30 PM »
Don't you know wayne?
All Orthodox Christians know Koine !

Offline servant_wayne

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2003, 05:21:26 PM »
It just not fair that only those who know Greek can know the truth.
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Offline Robert

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2003, 05:21:55 PM »
Looks like your just out of the loop then

Offline servant_wayne

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2003, 05:31:10 PM »
Oh well! Nevertheless, I once debated with an Orthodox priest and he was telling all about how religious tradition serves his church.  All I can say about that is, " Superstition is the mother of religious traditions."

Anyway this is my last post. I'm busy elsewhere with those unfortunate souls whom are cursed by not understanding Greek.

Wayne
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Offline Robert

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2003, 05:33:40 PM »
Yes we are tradition worshipers aren't we :)

Thanks for stopping by OrthodoxChristianity.net, Wayne!

Bobby

Offline Oblio

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2003, 05:37:20 PM »
This OP was Crossposted on a moderate Protestant board of which I am a member/moderator.

Off to study Greek... :D

Offline Frobie

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2003, 05:39:32 PM »
God arranged for him to speak with us today, and now he has left  :'(. Looks like we'll have to rely on our silly superstitions once more. Of course God Knows we can't all learn Koine, so He did make other arrangements: The Church. Party time, excellent!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2003, 05:44:17 PM by Frobisher »

Offline servant_garth

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2003, 05:43:00 PM »
WAYNE'S WORLD!
PARTY TIME..
EXCELLENT!!

WHERE did WAYNE go??
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Offline Oblio

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2003, 05:47:36 PM »
Maybe we should send them both over to ....

Never mind  :-X

Offline Habakkuk3

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2003, 07:04:27 PM »
It is true that Koine Greek was the original language of both ACTS and GALATIANS.

(It is NOT TRUE that 1st Samuel was ORIGINALLY written in Koine Greek - which no one ever claimed -- but I jes wanted tew point out)

And now I stand with one foot on the earth and another foot in the sea

and swear by Him that lives for ever and ever that I do be post sometimes at the board where Oblio referred to; where in fact he is a Moderator

that in fact I ewsta be a Mod on that Forum there whar he be at now

me -- a barely-Koine-reading Protestant whut sat thru six semesters uv thet Greik in kollij

and I say yer not gittin the best paradox

which is ACTS vs ACTS vis-a-vis Paul's road-to-Damascus trip

one account in Acts says the men saw a light heard no voice, another says opposite...

what?

they kin foller the link and read it at Pizza Parlor?

well...

.

.

.

all right then.

.

.

'n doncha geau trahin tuh FEWL me bout ENGLISH, neither, cuz ah kin reed thet tew!

Aye kin eben spel raht whin aye want tew

(ah jes don want to)

.

NOTE: If anybody quotes from Psalm from 9 on -- best give both the Septy-gent as well as masoretic numbering -- elst yew strict Ortho's-reading-Koine-only

will fudge up one on us non-Ortho's

.

.

.

any Troll kin jes

DROP AND

GIVE ME FIFTY !!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2003, 07:06:14 PM by Habakkuk3 »
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Offline Oblio

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2003, 07:14:00 PM »
Welcome to OC.net Habs !

Be nice (I know ya will  :) ), these are mah friends over here (jus' like over there at the Parlor).

I'll try to translate awthentic fruntear jibberish (when I can)

Offline Habakkuk3

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2003, 07:30:27 PM »
I will be nice -- won't spill anything on any incense -- won't smash no icons er nuthin!!

.


There are many lexical tools we can use to help use our glacier-like speed in reading the Koine...

there are few humanoids on the planet that can grasp

Authentic Frontier Gibberish.

.


I am off fer the week-end -- thanks fer the welcome -- lookin forward to comin here moah offen
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Offline prodromos

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2003, 03:21:22 AM »
Habakkuk, I've lost count of how many times I've seen Blazing Saddles so I do appreciate your efforts, but your incessant use of Authentic Frontier Gibberish is giving me a nose bleed. If you do not cease and desist I will be forced to nullify you with my Seth Efriken Eksent >:(

(Oh, and welcome to OC.NET BTW)

John.

Offline Habakkuk3

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2003, 04:13:59 PM »
Seth Efriken Eksent is Swahili for "Efrem Zimbalist, Jr." - who starred in the ole TV show "77 Sunset Strip" - thx fer the welcome, John...

(to speak with a seth efriken eksent if you are actually from North Africa...

without the expressed written consent of the National Football League

is prohibited

and is also heretical )

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Offline MyNameIsYura

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Book of Galatians.
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2003, 01:05:33 AM »
« Last Edit: March 06, 2003, 01:57:50 AM by MyNameIsYura »
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2003, 01:41:44 AM »
Greetings,

The link didn't work (since I don't have a Global username, but only a local one for an Orthodox forum). An Orthodox commentary on Galatians can be found here. Or for something from a patristic point of view, try Saint John Chrysostom's Homilies on Galatians. Enjoy ;D
« Last Edit: March 06, 2003, 01:44:00 AM by Paradosis »

Offline MyNameIsYura

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2003, 01:58:40 AM »
Just copy it all and paste it into the Address area and hit enter. It doesn't work because part of the link is not active.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2003, 02:04:12 AM »
Ok, I went and looked.... no thanks :) It doesn't take more than a glance to notice when an apple is rotten; e.g...

Quote
Here we see that Paul calls James the lord’s brother, why is that? This is for those who do not believe that Ha’Mashiach had any brothers.

The ever-virginity of Mary is a fact, no matter how much some try to wiggle around it ;)

Offline MyNameIsYura

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Subject.
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2003, 03:15:51 AM »
Surely there are people who view threads on this board, let them judge for themselves, I don't mind if people like you don't like the truth.
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Offline prodromos

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Re:Galatians versus Acts
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2003, 04:07:18 AM »
Yura,
of the twelve Apostles, two are named James. One is the brother of John, sons of Zebedee and the other, the Lord's brother, is the son of Alphaeus (Matt 10:3), not the son of Joseph.

We learn from Matt 27:56 that James and Joses (two of the Lord's brothers mentioned in Mark 6:3 also have a mother named Mary who is called the wife of Clopas in John 19:25. The Hebrew form of Alphaeus is Cleopas or Clopas. This Mary is also referred to as the sister of Jesus' mother, but since two sisters would not be given the same name it is readily apparent they they are in fact close relatives (see how loosely the terms brother and sister are used by the Jews).

It should be clear then, simply from reading scripture, that James, the Lord's brother, is in fact Jesus' cousin by nature of their mothers being cousins. So too are the other 'brothers' of our Lord. Joses (Joseph) stated clearly as James' brother and Judas (Jude) and Simon either being brothers or cousins of the former.

I hope this clears things up for you.

John.