Author Topic: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop  (Read 10583 times)

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Offline scamandrius

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Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« on: July 16, 2016, 09:51:09 PM »
The Rev. Karen Oliveto, senior pastor of Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco, has been elected as the first openly lesbian United Methodist bishop by delegates at the Western Jurisdictional Conference.

Oliveto, 58, was elected July 15 at the jurisdiction’s quadrennial meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona. She was elected on the 17th ballot with 88 votes after the Rev. Dottie Escobedo-Frank and the Rev. Walter “Skip” Strickland withdrew from the election. The Rev. Frank Wulf, another openly gay candidate, had withdrawn earlier.


http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/western-jurisdiction-elects-openly-gay-united-methodist-bishop

Despite the explicit rules in the Book of Discipline which forbid such a thing, this region decided that it wasn't going to wait for an imposed moratorium while such things are looked at by a select committee organized at their convention earlier this summer.  I'm waiting for the African and Asian Methodists to immediately condemn this and break off. 
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2016, 10:30:28 PM »
The Rev. Karen Oliveto, senior pastor of Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco, has been elected as the first openly lesbian United Methodist bishop by delegates at the Western Jurisdictional Conference.

Oliveto, 58, was elected July 15 at the jurisdiction’s quadrennial meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona. She was elected on the 17th ballot with 88 votes after the Rev. Dottie Escobedo-Frank and the Rev. Walter “Skip” Strickland withdrew from the election. The Rev. Frank Wulf, another openly gay candidate, had withdrawn earlier.


http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/western-jurisdiction-elects-openly-gay-united-methodist-bishop

Despite the explicit rules in the Book of Discipline which forbid such a thing, this region decided that it wasn't going to wait for an imposed moratorium while such things are looked at by a select committee organized at their convention earlier this summer.  I'm waiting for the African and Asian Methodists to immediately condemn this and break off.

Why do you care? 
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2016, 11:41:23 PM »
Ironically enough, the United Methodist church is one of the most diverse churches still in one piece in the U.S. A southern small town may have one that with KJV-only elders and a northeastern city may have one that's not discernably different from UCC. If they've gone on that way for this long, probably the latest event won't ruin them.

Are Methodists in Africa really United Methodist? I suppose there might be a few offspring of American missionary work, but I'd think most Methodists in Africa would trace their not-inconsiderable numbers to the Methodist homeland of England.
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Offline JTLoganville

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2016, 11:54:59 PM »
Kyrie Eleison x 100 x 4

Here we go again.

The Episcopal Church USA elected the openly gay Vicke Gene Robinson as "bishop" of New Hampshire in 2002.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America elected the an openly gay "bishop"  Guy (whatever his surname) in the Californa-Pacific Synod a decade later.

The United Methodists didn't even wait a decade.

"Let the wicked fall into their own nets".

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 12:05:09 AM »
The Rev. Karen Oliveto, senior pastor of Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco, has been elected as the first openly lesbian United Methodist bishop by delegates at the Western Jurisdictional Conference.

Oliveto, 58, was elected July 15 at the jurisdiction’s quadrennial meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona. She was elected on the 17th ballot with 88 votes after the Rev. Dottie Escobedo-Frank and the Rev. Walter “Skip” Strickland withdrew from the election. The Rev. Frank Wulf, another openly gay candidate, had withdrawn earlier.


http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/western-jurisdiction-elects-openly-gay-united-methodist-bishop

Despite the explicit rules in the Book of Discipline which forbid such a thing, this region decided that it wasn't going to wait for an imposed moratorium while such things are looked at by a select committee organized at their convention earlier this summer.  I'm waiting for the African and Asian Methodists to immediately condemn this and break off.

Why do you care?

My wife is Methodist as is most of her family. Her cousin with whom she grew up (the brother she never had) is in seminary right now and this past week we had a family gathering.  This subject came up during dinner and my wife's cousin believed that despite the moratorium that a district may go ahead and do simething like this.

That a good enough reason for you, Mor?  Should I clear all topics with you first?
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Offline Svartzorn

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 12:38:59 AM »
Let them sink into their own degeneracies, we shouldn't care.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2016, 12:46:07 AM »
Is this really that shocking? the UMC been the "Gay Church" now for a while. One thing historians will look back on years from now, is how fast Mainline Protestantism has fallen. It too bad too since many folks like Traditional Anglicans, and Confessional Lutheranism seemed very close to Orthodoxy in some areas, and at one time had a huge influence on the American public. Prayers to those Methodists now without a home, they need it.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 12:57:44 AM by seekeroftruth777 »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 12:55:35 AM »
Let them sink into their own degeneracies, we shouldn't care.

As an institution, sure. "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." But for the tens of thousands of eternal souls involved, we should certainly care.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Rohzek

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 01:08:04 AM »
Gotta love the comments that say they don't care about other churches. I mean, it's not like such things make reunion or even missionary work among Methodists more difficult and all. :rollseyes:
"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 01:14:47 AM »
Gotta love the comments that say they don't care about other churches. I mean, it's not like such things make reunion or even missionary work among Methodists more difficult and all. :rollseyes:

I can't imagine a circumstance which would put Orthodox "reunion" with a church like this even under discussion. United Methodism is removed from Orthodoxy by many steps -- removed from its own roots by several.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2016, 01:17:58 AM »
In other words, even putting this concept in purely technical, bureaucratical terms, the United Methodist Church would first have to have "reunion" with other Methodists in U.S., then that group would have to do what was necessary to have "reunion" with Methodists in Great Britain, they would have to find their way back to low-church Church of England status (which Wesley, I believe, still had), then back to Anglo-Catholicism, Roman Catholicism ... You get the picture. And, again, this doesn't touch the moral and postmodern-theological issues -- just an unbridgeable gap.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2016, 01:21:08 AM »
I didn't even know any sort of reunion with Methodism was ever talked about in Orthodoxy, who saying this in our Churches?

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2016, 02:34:46 AM »
Methodism claims it's Apostolic Succesion from a Greek Bishop:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus_of_Arcadia
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2016, 03:06:32 AM »
Axia!
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Offline Seekingtrue

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2016, 03:52:53 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

Offline mike

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2016, 07:22:37 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
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Offline Seekingtrue

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2016, 08:40:05 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
Gays are not axioi for clergy.Any other field yes..

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2016, 08:40:16 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

Mike doesnt much care for Orthodox teaching on these subjects.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2016, 08:41:49 AM »
Methodism claims it's Apostolic Succesion from a Greek Bishop:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus_of_Arcadia

Even if Wesley were "ordained" by this Bishop it would have been canonically illicit  so Methodists would not have any claim to apostolic succession.
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2016, 08:45:48 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
Gays are not axioi for clergy.Any other field yes..

Is she a bishop in the Orthodox Church, where lesbians cannot be bishops? y/n?
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Offline Seekingtrue

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2016, 08:51:28 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
Gays are not axioi for clergy.Any other field yes..

Is she a bishop in the Orthodox Church, where lesbians cannot be bishops? y/n?
Women and I'm talking about straight women are out of clergy in Orthodoxy.What s your point?

Offline mike

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2016, 08:56:22 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
Gays are not axioi for clergy.Any other field yes..

Is she a bishop in the Orthodox Church, where lesbians cannot be bishops? y/n?
Women and I'm talking about straight women are out of clergy in Orthodoxy.What s your point?

Religion other than Orthodox Church chose a leader in accordance with their bylaws (which are not the same as for the Orthodox Church).

What is everyone's point?
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Offline Seekingtrue

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2016, 09:05:50 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
Gays are not axioi for clergy.Any other field yes..

Is she a bishop in the Orthodox Church, where lesbians cannot be bishops? y/n?
Women and I'm talking about straight women are out of clergy in Orthodoxy.What s your point?

Religion other than Orthodox Church chose a leader in accordance with their bylaws (which are not the same as for the Orthodox Church).

What is everyone's point?
bylaws or bi-laws?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 09:06:30 AM by Seekingtrue »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2016, 09:14:16 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
Gays are not axioi for clergy.Any other field yes..

Is she a bishop in the Orthodox Church, where lesbians cannot be bishops? y/n?
Women and I'm talking about straight women are out of clergy in Orthodoxy.What s your point?

One could also ask you the same, why do you care?

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2016, 09:15:49 AM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
Gays are not axioi for clergy.Any other field yes..

Is she a bishop in the Orthodox Church, where lesbians cannot be bishops? y/n?
Women and I'm talking about straight women are out of clergy in Orthodoxy.What s your point?

One could also ask you the same, why do you care?

I don't. "Axios" is a typical response to an ordination one does not know enough bad things to say otherwise and that's what I did. Unlike all the others, that tell people of other religion what and how they should believe.
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2016, 10:53:58 AM »
Read: I am a contrarian and received the desired response.
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2016, 11:04:21 AM »
Gotta love the comments that say they don't care about other churches. I mean, it's not like such things make reunion or even missionary work among Methodists more difficult and all. :rollseyes:

I can't imagine a circumstance which would put Orthodox "reunion" with a church like this even under discussion. United Methodism is removed from Orthodoxy by many steps -- removed from its own roots by several.

So you don't care if it is made all the more difficult for reunion or even missionary efforts for Methodists? What's easier for an Orthodox to do, to witness to a Episcopalian or a Catholic? The latter most certainly because there is more in common, especially these days with how Episcopalism has been watered down. Methodism is getting watered down in some of its most basic Christian aspects. That makes evangelism to them that much more difficult.

In other words, even putting this concept in purely technical, bureaucratical terms, the United Methodist Church would first have to have "reunion" with other Methodists in U.S., then that group would have to do what was necessary to have "reunion" with Methodists in Great Britain, they would have to find their way back to low-church Church of England status (which Wesley, I believe, still had), then back to Anglo-Catholicism, Roman Catholicism ... You get the picture. And, again, this doesn't touch the moral and postmodern-theological issues -- just an unbridgeable gap.

It's still possible for it to happen one day. And setting the bureaucracies aside, which I think way too many people in this thread have focused on, if an Orthodox individual wants to witness the full truth of Christ to a Methodist, now they have to directly address the issue of homosexuality, which is a bomb in contemporary politics. It makes the witnessing effort with hopes of their conversion more difficult, because chances would be that the Methodist person would have no problem with homosexuality.

As for postmodernism in contemporary theology, at least in Catholic theology, there is quite a bit of postmodernism sadly. I wouldn't be surprised if it has seeped into Orthodox seminaries in the Americas and Europe as well. In fact, I skimmed an Orthodox theological work some time ago that adored postmodernism. It was pure garbage. That's what happens when everyone and their mom in academic theology pulls from the rubbish Continental philosophies. So this phenomenon is hardly just some petty Protestant problem. It's everywhere and must be rooted out without mercy or compassion.

If you see a priest or bishop say that they think Hegel or Derrida were great thinkers, slap them as though you were their mother. If they speak of Kierkegaard, Schopenhauer, or Heidegger you might forgive them and if you do, you must always hold them in deep suspicion. 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 11:10:19 AM by Rohzek »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2016, 11:45:50 AM »
Methodism claims it's Apostolic Succesion from a Greek Bishop:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus_of_Arcadia

Well that's a fascinating bit of obscurely-known fact (assuming it is fact -- neither of the quotes in the article actually address it), but considering John Wesley offered copious quotes throughout his career as to why he and English Methodists of his day should remain Anglicans and none as to why they should become Orthodox, I assume in the large picture it amounts to technical trivia.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2016, 11:48:52 AM »
... if an Orthodox individual wants to witness the full truth of Christ to a Methodist, now they have to directly address the issue of homosexuality ...

I'd ask how you can possibly support this with coherent theological and practical argument, but my guess is it's just a personal hangup of yours.

Quote
If you see a priest or bishop say that they think Hegel or Derrida were great thinkers, slap them as though you were their mother.

I can only speak of my mother, but she did not make a habit of slapping me. Your post is full of "gems," but I'll leave it at that.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2016, 01:54:27 PM »
Axia!
A gay woman in clergy is axia?

she was chosen by the leaders of her religion as the best candidate.
Gays are not axioi for clergy.Any other field yes..

Is she a bishop in the Orthodox Church, where lesbians cannot be bishops? y/n?
Women and I'm talking about straight women are out of clergy in Orthodoxy.What s your point?

Religion other than Orthodox Church chose a leader in accordance with their bylaws (which are not the same as for the Orthodox Church).

What is everyone's point?

But even this ordination IS NOT in keeping with the Methodists' own bylaws.  That's the point.
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Rohzek

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2016, 03:15:39 PM »
... if an Orthodox individual wants to witness the full truth of Christ to a Methodist, now they have to directly address the issue of homosexuality ...

I'd ask how you can possibly support this with coherent theological and practical argument, but my guess is it's just a personal hangup of yours.

I suspect that you have never done or at least attempted in any sort of serious way missionary work. If someone belongs to a church that condones homosexuality, they are far less likely to be receptive to any sort of evangelism from other Christians with more traditional morals. That's a very practical concern to have.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 03:16:48 PM by Rohzek »
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2016, 04:40:29 PM »

Religion other than Orthodox Church chose a leader in accordance with their bylaws (which are not the same as for the Orthodox Church).

What is everyone's point?

The choosing actually wasn't in accordance with their bylaws.

And while I understand your broader point about it not being the Orthodox Church, I do not understand why you then applied a typically Orthodox phrase, "Axia", to the news of her election.
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2016, 04:41:46 PM »
And while I understand your broader point about it not being the Orthodox Church, I do not understand why you then applied a typically Orthodox phrase, "Axia", to the news of her election.

Why shouldn't I?
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2016, 05:19:35 PM »
Do you really not see the inconsistencies in your posts, or are you just being difficult (that's a thoroughly begged question, by the way)?

If your initial point is that we shouldn't care about the inner workings of a non-Orthodox church--a valid perspective--then why apply a typically Orthodox phrase to the inner workings of a non-Orthodox church action and proclaim it correct ?

You can do what you wish, but in my opinion, your "axia!" comment was either inconsistent with your first point or goading. As your initial point suggested, it's really none of our business. Yet you then contradicted this point with your proclamation of her worthiness of her position (even if, according to the by-laws, it was not).

But for consistency sake, you should probably pick one of the two.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2016, 05:30:53 PM »
Ironically enough, the United Methodist church is one of the most diverse churches still in one piece in the U.S. A southern small town may have one that with KJV-only elders and a northeastern city may have one that's not discernably different from UCC. If they've gone on that way for this long, probably the latest event won't ruin them.

Are Methodists in Africa really United Methodist? I suppose there might be a few offspring of American missionary work, but I'd think most Methodists in Africa would trace their not-inconsiderable numbers to the Methodist homeland of England.
It has been going on that way for a long time, but things are starting to come to a head. My wife's pastor has made a number of comments regarding the possibility of schism within United Methodism. I suspect at some point, they will end up like the Episcopal Church with all the accompanying lawsuits as well.
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2016, 05:42:05 PM »
The Rev. Karen Oliveto, senior pastor of Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco, has been elected as the first openly lesbian United Methodist bishop by delegates at the Western Jurisdictional Conference.

Oliveto, 58, was elected July 15 at the jurisdiction’s quadrennial meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona. She was elected on the 17th ballot with 88 votes after the Rev. Dottie Escobedo-Frank and the Rev. Walter “Skip” Strickland withdrew from the election. The Rev. Frank Wulf, another openly gay candidate, had withdrawn earlier.


http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/western-jurisdiction-elects-openly-gay-united-methodist-bishop

Despite the explicit rules in the Book of Discipline which forbid such a thing, this region decided that it wasn't going to wait for an imposed moratorium while such things are looked at by a select committee organized at their convention earlier this summer.  I'm waiting for the African and Asian Methodists to immediately condemn this and break off.

Why do you care?

My wife is Methodist as is most of her family. Her cousin with whom she grew up (the brother she never had) is in seminary right now and this past week we had a family gathering.  This subject came up during dinner and my wife's cousin believed that despite the moratorium that a district may go ahead and do simething like this.

That a good enough reason for you, Mor?  Should I clear all topics with you first?

I was just curious.  Usually, you're all about not caring:

Why do we care which heterodox are closest to Orthodox doctrine and/or practice?  They're still outside the Church.

And why do you care so much about whether or not the Vatican followed its own rules with regards to canonization?

Thank you for your continued interest in the Eastern Orthodox Church,  her doctrine, her clergy, her adherents and the actions that they display.  We will be sure to file your analyses and your opinions with the other analyses and opinions of those outside the church in the general file of "we don't care." 

This "persecution" complex the gay rights lobby has makes me very disinclined to even care at times.

Fine, let the rest of the world do what it wants in this regard.



Why do we care about this guy?

Exactly. 

Who is this person and why should I care at all what she thinks?

Still, why would/should  anyone care about whether the adherents of the church you come from support your decision or not?

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Why would you care? 

Honest question:  how is it that you, a non-orthodox, know or claim to know so much of the inner workings and thoughts of the clergy and hierarchs of the Orthodox Church?  And then, why do you care so much? 

I don't care how other parishes conduct their services. If it works for their congregation, so be it.

I don't give a crap whom the pope or Greek Catholic hierarchy honor.  Josaphat isn't an Orthodox saint so why should we care just because your pope does?

I yawn simply because I don't care and because it has not a shred of impact on me or my daily life. I'm too busy raising my own family and ensuring for their own livelihood and safety.

Who the #$%^ cares?  I mean, really?

He's not Orthodox, nor is he RC.  He does not worship in a church body which even ordains priests, but commissions leaders of both sexes.  There is nothing sacramental in his church nor would it begin to understand such a thing.  So, why does he care so much? 

Maybe it's because I wasn't alive or maybe because I don't care...

It may be gutsy, but why does she have to make it public?  I really don't care.

Et cetera, et cetera.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2016, 05:45:53 PM »
Read: I am a contrarian and received the desired response.

This is the only truth.
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2016, 05:52:50 PM »
The Rev. Karen Oliveto, senior pastor of Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco, has been elected as the first openly lesbian United Methodist bishop by delegates at the Western Jurisdictional Conference.

Oliveto, 58, was elected July 15 at the jurisdiction’s quadrennial meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona. She was elected on the 17th ballot with 88 votes after the Rev. Dottie Escobedo-Frank and the Rev. Walter “Skip” Strickland withdrew from the election. The Rev. Frank Wulf, another openly gay candidate, had withdrawn earlier.


http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/western-jurisdiction-elects-openly-gay-united-methodist-bishop

Despite the explicit rules in the Book of Discipline which forbid such a thing, this region decided that it wasn't going to wait for an imposed moratorium while such things are looked at by a select committee organized at their convention earlier this summer.  I'm waiting for the African and Asian Methodists to immediately condemn this and break off.

Why do you care?

My wife is Methodist as is most of her family. Her cousin with whom she grew up (the brother she never had) is in seminary right now and this past week we had a family gathering.  This subject came up during dinner and my wife's cousin believed that despite the moratorium that a district may go ahead and do simething like this.

That a good enough reason for you, Mor?  Should I clear all topics with you first?

I was just curious.  Usually, you're all about not caring:

Why do we care which heterodox are closest to Orthodox doctrine and/or practice?  They're still outside the Church.

And why do you care so much about whether or not the Vatican followed its own rules with regards to canonization?

Thank you for your continued interest in the Eastern Orthodox Church,  her doctrine, her clergy, her adherents and the actions that they display.  We will be sure to file your analyses and your opinions with the other analyses and opinions of those outside the church in the general file of "we don't care." 

This "persecution" complex the gay rights lobby has makes me very disinclined to even care at times.

Fine, let the rest of the world do what it wants in this regard.



Why do we care about this guy?

Exactly. 

Who is this person and why should I care at all what she thinks?

Still, why would/should  anyone care about whether the adherents of the church you come from support your decision or not?

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Why would you care? 

Honest question:  how is it that you, a non-orthodox, know or claim to know so much of the inner workings and thoughts of the clergy and hierarchs of the Orthodox Church?  And then, why do you care so much? 

I don't care how other parishes conduct their services. If it works for their congregation, so be it.

I don't give a crap whom the pope or Greek Catholic hierarchy honor.  Josaphat isn't an Orthodox saint so why should we care just because your pope does?

I yawn simply because I don't care and because it has not a shred of impact on me or my daily life. I'm too busy raising my own family and ensuring for their own livelihood and safety.

Who the #$%^ cares?  I mean, really?

He's not Orthodox, nor is he RC.  He does not worship in a church body which even ordains priests, but commissions leaders of both sexes.  There is nothing sacramental in his church nor would it begin to understand such a thing.  So, why does he care so much? 

Maybe it's because I wasn't alive or maybe because I don't care...

It may be gutsy, but why does she have to make it public?  I really don't care.

Et cetera, et cetera.

Do you record people's posts as you go, or did you just spend half an hour putting that together?
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2016, 05:57:55 PM »
Do you record people's posts as you go, or did you just spend half an hour putting that together?

;)
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2016, 06:03:12 PM »
You always get Mor than you bargained for on the OCNet...
God bless!

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2016, 06:08:00 PM »
The Rev. Karen Oliveto, senior pastor of Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco, has been elected as the first openly lesbian United Methodist bishop by delegates at the Western Jurisdictional Conference.

Oliveto, 58, was elected July 15 at the jurisdiction’s quadrennial meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona. She was elected on the 17th ballot with 88 votes after the Rev. Dottie Escobedo-Frank and the Rev. Walter “Skip” Strickland withdrew from the election. The Rev. Frank Wulf, another openly gay candidate, had withdrawn earlier.


http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/western-jurisdiction-elects-openly-gay-united-methodist-bishop

Despite the explicit rules in the Book of Discipline which forbid such a thing, this region decided that it wasn't going to wait for an imposed moratorium while such things are looked at by a select committee organized at their convention earlier this summer.  I'm waiting for the African and Asian Methodists to immediately condemn this and break off.

Why do you care?

My wife is Methodist as is most of her family. Her cousin with whom she grew up (the brother she never had) is in seminary right now and this past week we had a family gathering.  This subject came up during dinner and my wife's cousin believed that despite the moratorium that a district may go ahead and do simething like this.

That a good enough reason for you, Mor?  Should I clear all topics with you first?

I was just curious.  Usually, you're all about not caring:

As I indicated this had a personal connection for me and that does not require your authorization. 

BTW, your ability to work the search function on this site never ceases to amaze me.  I hope you put that on resumes for whatever jobs you apply for.
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2016, 06:08:22 PM »
Read: I am a contrarian and received the desired response.

This is the only truth.

Wish I had read this earlier. Would've saved me a few minutes typing.
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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2016, 06:08:54 PM »
The Rev. Karen Oliveto, senior pastor of Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco, has been elected as the first openly lesbian United Methodist bishop by delegates at the Western Jurisdictional Conference.

Oliveto, 58, was elected July 15 at the jurisdiction’s quadrennial meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona. She was elected on the 17th ballot with 88 votes after the Rev. Dottie Escobedo-Frank and the Rev. Walter “Skip” Strickland withdrew from the election. The Rev. Frank Wulf, another openly gay candidate, had withdrawn earlier.


http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/western-jurisdiction-elects-openly-gay-united-methodist-bishop

Despite the explicit rules in the Book of Discipline which forbid such a thing, this region decided that it wasn't going to wait for an imposed moratorium while such things are looked at by a select committee organized at their convention earlier this summer.  I'm waiting for the African and Asian Methodists to immediately condemn this and break off.

Why do you care?

My wife is Methodist as is most of her family. Her cousin with whom she grew up (the brother she never had) is in seminary right now and this past week we had a family gathering.  This subject came up during dinner and my wife's cousin believed that despite the moratorium that a district may go ahead and do simething like this.

That a good enough reason for you, Mor?  Should I clear all topics with you first?

I was just curious.  Usually, you're all about not caring:

Why do we care which heterodox are closest to Orthodox doctrine and/or practice?  They're still outside the Church.

And why do you care so much about whether or not the Vatican followed its own rules with regards to canonization?

Thank you for your continued interest in the Eastern Orthodox Church,  her doctrine, her clergy, her adherents and the actions that they display.  We will be sure to file your analyses and your opinions with the other analyses and opinions of those outside the church in the general file of "we don't care." 

This "persecution" complex the gay rights lobby has makes me very disinclined to even care at times.

Fine, let the rest of the world do what it wants in this regard.



Why do we care about this guy?

Exactly. 

Who is this person and why should I care at all what she thinks?

Still, why would/should  anyone care about whether the adherents of the church you come from support your decision or not?

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Why would you care? 

Honest question:  how is it that you, a non-orthodox, know or claim to know so much of the inner workings and thoughts of the clergy and hierarchs of the Orthodox Church?  And then, why do you care so much? 

I don't care how other parishes conduct their services. If it works for their congregation, so be it.

I don't give a crap whom the pope or Greek Catholic hierarchy honor.  Josaphat isn't an Orthodox saint so why should we care just because your pope does?

I yawn simply because I don't care and because it has not a shred of impact on me or my daily life. I'm too busy raising my own family and ensuring for their own livelihood and safety.

Who the #$%^ cares?  I mean, really?

He's not Orthodox, nor is he RC.  He does not worship in a church body which even ordains priests, but commissions leaders of both sexes.  There is nothing sacramental in his church nor would it begin to understand such a thing.  So, why does he care so much? 

Maybe it's because I wasn't alive or maybe because I don't care...

It may be gutsy, but why does she have to make it public?  I really don't care.

Et cetera, et cetera.

Do you record people's posts as you go, or did you just spend half an hour putting that together?

He has no life.  i would suggest taking up hobbies like Pokemon Go.
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2016, 06:17:14 PM »
You always get Mor than you bargained for on the OCNet...
Mor is a great reminder of Matthew 12:36.
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

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Re: Methodists ordain an openly gay woman as bishop
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2016, 06:27:26 PM »
BTW, your ability to work the search function on this site never ceases to amaze me.  I hope you put that on resumes for whatever jobs you apply for.

Why would they care about your opinion?
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I hail Mor Ephrem as our Secretary General.

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Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

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