Author Topic: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.  (Read 6814 times)

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Raylight

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OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« on: July 01, 2016, 06:49:05 PM »
Do you think the forum represents the mainstream Eastern Orthodox or do you think there are a lot of things still not represented or maybe misrepresented? Yes or no, and why?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 06:49:25 PM by Raylight »

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2016, 06:52:35 PM »
As a new convert who doesn't kno many Orthodox besides Brazilians and posters of this forum, I really can't tell, but the fact the vast majority of active posters here are either from North America or Western Europe (in which only a tiny minority of the Orthodox live) and many of us aren't even Orthodox make me think it's a no.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 06:54:27 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2016, 08:32:33 PM »
The kind of Orthodoxy I find online in general is very different than anything I have experienced in the parishes I have attended. I will also note that I find that to be a good thing.
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Offline WPM

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2016, 09:14:46 PM »
Whatever it is ... its a minority with very little representation. So no.
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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2016, 12:44:56 AM »
Do you think the forum represents the mainstream Eastern Orthodox or do you think there are a lot of things still not represented or maybe misrepresented? Yes or no, and why?

Ahahahahahahahahaha -- gasp -- hahahaha -- gulp -- haha.
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Raylight

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2016, 01:15:35 AM »
Do you think the forum represents the mainstream Eastern Orthodox or do you think there are a lot of things still not represented or maybe misrepresented? Yes or no, and why?

Ahahahahahahahahaha -- gasp -- hahahaha -- gulp -- haha.

This is really inappropriate and would expect better from someone in your age who has kids. No matter how silly some of my posts get, I'm still fresh out of teenage, but you Porter, you are a father who supposed to know the difference. Anyway, thanks for your contribution.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2016, 01:23:17 AM »
Do you think the forum represents the mainstream Eastern Orthodox or do you think there are a lot of things still not represented or maybe misrepresented? Yes or no, and why?

Ahahahahahahahahaha -- gasp -- hahahaha -- gulp -- haha.

This is really inappropriate and would expect better from someone in your age who has kids. No matter how silly some of my posts get, I'm still fresh out of teenage, but you Porter, you are a father who supposed to know the difference. Anyway, thanks for your contribution.

To be fair to Porter, I think he laughing at the suggestion, that Orthodoxy online represent anything like in a real life parish. I don't think he meant it as disrespect towards you.

Raylight

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2016, 01:35:06 AM »
Do you think the forum represents the mainstream Eastern Orthodox or do you think there are a lot of things still not represented or maybe misrepresented? Yes or no, and why?

Ahahahahahahahahaha -- gasp -- hahahaha -- gulp -- haha.

This is really inappropriate and would expect better from someone in your age who has kids. No matter how silly some of my posts get, I'm still fresh out of teenage, but you Porter, you are a father who supposed to know the difference. Anyway, thanks for your contribution.

To be fair to Porter, I think he laughing at the suggestion, that Orthodoxy online represent anything like in a real life parish. I don't think he meant it as disrespect towards you.

I really hope so, and if that is the case then my apologies for the misunderstanding. We lately were picking at each other that it is becoming easier to think bad of the other.

Offline FinnJames

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2016, 02:08:04 AM »
It's much easier to stick to some sort of theory about what Orthodoxy should be here where we don't really have to deal with flesh-and-blood people than in the parish, where we meet each other face to face. No doubt that's why some of the discussions here become so heated and feelings get hurt.

Discussions here tend toward the intellectual, while encounters in the parish have to take account of others as people with many dimensions. Orthodoxy is a religion that is intended to be lived out in personal encounters, not just talked about in the abstract. (That's not to say that the sort of talking we do here is worthless, of course, but it would be a pity if any enquirer mistook orthodoxchristianity.net for Orthodoxy as a whole.)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2016, 02:20:10 AM »
There aren't even that many active members who are faithful Orthodox. It's much more like Reddit or some other young-male-with-personality-problems-and-a-keyboard internet site than like a parish.
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2016, 02:24:56 AM »
OC.net represents Eastern Orthodox in reality better than, for example, the Christian Forums "The Ancient Way" Orthodox subforum. The views expressed there do not even rise to the level of Moloch worship, let alone Christianity.
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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2016, 05:27:37 AM »
(That's not to say that the sort of talking we do here is worthless, of course, but it would be a pity if any enquirer mistook orthodoxchristianity.net for Orthodoxy as a whole.)

Similar to when the weird guy shows up at coffee hour wanting to talk about essences and energies. Dude, get some potato salad and a piece of cake.  We're talking about motorcycles here.
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Offline Seekingtrue

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2016, 05:38:53 AM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

Offline Dominika

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2016, 05:47:10 AM »
No. For example, Polish Orthodox (ex)postes of this forum are not typical members of the Polish Church ;)

However, I think there is one, let's say, advantage of oc.net, that makes it in some way representative: people from various jurisdictions* and nations, EOs and OOs, not only from English-speaking countries.

*that's a perspective of the person that's from country in which there is only one jurisdiction, so it's seen like something representational and attractive.

Offline BrotherBoris

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2016, 08:51:06 AM »
Raylight:  Most Orthodox people in person are a whole lot more mellow about everything than typical posters on this forum.  They don't have anything to "prove."  They are not fanatics, but they aren't nominal either.  They are just plain, ordinary Orthodox faithful.  Most American Orthodox that I have known AVOID the subject of worldly politics at Church and Coffee Hour because we want to remain friends with our fellow parishioners and get to know them as human beings.  I would never assume that everyone at Church would agree with me on a variety of political issues.  Nor would I feel such agreement is even necessary.  As my former priest used to say, "Politics is not dogma."  That is one thing that does separate Orthodoxy from some of the fundamentalist Protestant sects, as many of them do seem to make politics into dogma and have a hard time separating the Christian Church from Caesar. 

Other things that normal, everyday Orthodox faithful don't worry about or obsess about are:
1.  The Creation versus Evolution debates of fundamentalistic Protestantism
2.  The Rapture nonsense of the Dispensationalists.
3.  Endless debates and worries about tithing. (Some Orthodox do tithe, but they don't blow a trumpet about it and demand it of everyone like the Baptists do.)
4.  The whole "certainty of salvation" thing that the born agains and Evangelicals are always talking and worrying about.
5.  Heated arguments over which Bible translation to use.  (Most Orthodox simply use whatever version their parish priest recommends.)
6.  Being relevant, hip, cool, up-to-date with "praise bands," large video screens in church, drums, electric guitars, and the use of so-called "Contemporary Christian Music" (which really means pop music with a Christian lite text)
7.  Using that "Christian fish" symbol on everything, esp. vehicles.  Most Orthodox Christians prefer using the Cross.
8.  Demonizing everyone outside the Orthodox Church that disagrees with us. (Some individual Orthodox might do that, but honestly, the typical Orthodox response to that is to respect the person's free will (and that includes the free will to accept heresy) and to politely state the Orthodox point of view and leave it at that.  Most Orthodox are secure enough in their beliefs not to argue with the non-Orthodox about religion. Just because we believe we belong to the One True Church doesn't mean we have to be rude, obnoxious or arrogant about it.  We can be quiet and humble. or ought to try to be.


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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2016, 09:05:09 AM »
Do you think the forum represents

This forum represents no one.

Offline Svartzorn

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2016, 10:54:38 AM »
Probably not because most people aren't interested in discussing religion or religious teachings.
Most people are not interested in learning about their religion whatsoever. :P

Offline Agabus

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2016, 11:22:09 AM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge and many more who perceive themselves to have a high level of theological knowledge.

FIFY

Raylight — my experience of Orthodoxy is wholly limited to a region of the United States that is fairly dissimilar to your part of Canada, so I don't know if I can address your concerns fully.

But I'll tell you this. In normal parish life as I've lived it, when you aren't in church services, you don't go around debating the fillioque or what is or isn't acceptable fasting (though some people will admit, quietly, that they cheat), and you don't talk about the gay agenda or guns or whatever cultural kneejerk discussion is floating around this site at a given moment. You're just (mostly) normal people, trying to live decent lives.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 11:24:01 AM by Agabus »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2016, 12:38:12 PM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

I've certainly learned here, and seen some impressive posts. Sometimes very impressive. I'd certainly recommend people use the Search function to benefit from the years of archives. However, such break throughs seem to come rarely, especially in later years, while the sheer amount of dung one has to float in and wrath one has to endure waiting on such apparitions throws their value into doubt.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 12:38:38 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline scamandrius

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2016, 03:57:55 PM »
Do you think the forum represents the mainstream Eastern Orthodox or do you think there are a lot of things still not represented or maybe misrepresented? Yes or no, and why?

Does Raylight represent the mainstream of Catholicism?  Yes or no, and why? Discuss.
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Offline Dominika

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2016, 07:05:02 AM »
Oh, I forgot about one important thing, whi this forum can't be representative: I think the majority of the forumers are men, while in church (services, various meetings and activities) the vast majority are women ;) Maybe except Serbian parishes, at least in Serbia.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2016, 01:46:19 PM »
OC.net represents Eastern Orthodox in reality better than, for example, the Christian Forums "The Ancient Way" Orthodox subforum. The views expressed there do not even rise to the level of Moloch worship, let alone Christianity.
Why's that? I haven't read much into this forum but I didn't see anything specially worrysome.
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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2016, 01:50:44 PM »
Very interesting responses and I appreciate the contributions made by the members here. I hope the answers I got here will help to remember that whatever I see here, is not what the majority of Easter Orthodox are, even in North America.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 01:50:58 PM by Raylight »

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2016, 03:19:40 PM »
Very interesting responses and I appreciate the contributions made by the members here. I hope the answers I got here will help to remember that whatever I see here, is not what the majority of Easter Orthodox are, even in North America.

...or some revelation of what the people in the parish are really thinking.  It's not fair to individuals to conflate the two. 

I will add that it is acceptable to ask random questions about various doctrines and practices and even compare or debate them here.  It's not really a good idea to attempt that at coffee hour.  You don't know the mental/emotional/spiritual state of the person you're speaking to, and may stumble them.  Or not.  Either way, as Hecma said, motorcycles.  I just don't happen to be good at chit chat and small talk.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 03:20:04 PM by Ainnir »
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2016, 07:02:57 PM »
Most of the fanatics are probably in ROCOR ;)
or out in one of those "true orthodox" sects that have all of you under anathema because you're in communion with a bishop who's in communion with a bishop who's in communion with a bishop who once blessed some food when his archpriest's Papist brother-in-law was somewhere in the same county, and that is clearly STRICTLY FORBIDDEN BY THE CANONS that all Orthodox followed WITHOUT EXCEPTION until they changed the calendar because of the pan-heresy of ecumenism!!! ::)::)::)
I do admit to skewing fanatic though :(

Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2016, 07:07:03 PM »
Oh, I forgot about one important thing, whi this forum can't be representative: I think the majority of the forumers are men, while in church (services, various meetings and activities) the vast majority are women ;) Maybe except Serbian parishes, at least in Serbia.
I didn't see this either at the Greek or Antiochean parishes I visited here...I did see that at a HOCNA "parish" i went to when I was a full-blown fanatic and between that and the priest saying he was forbidden to even bless non-Orthodox it made me wonder a bit.

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2016, 07:24:02 PM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

I've certainly learned here, and seen some impressive posts. Sometimes very impressive. I'd certainly recommend people use the Search function to benefit from the years of archives. However, such break throughs seem to come rarely, especially in later years, while the sheer amount of dung one has to float in and wrath one has to endure waiting on such apparitions throws their value into doubt.

I don't think it's so much that the dung/thoughtful ratio has become worse so much as it just becomes more noticeable the longer one posts here and starts deviating from using this board for information and become more social.

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2016, 08:08:01 PM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

I've certainly learned here, and seen some impressive posts. Sometimes very impressive. I'd certainly recommend people use the Search function to benefit from the years of archives. However, such break throughs seem to come rarely, especially in later years, while the sheer amount of dung one has to float in and wrath one has to endure waiting on such apparitions throws their value into doubt.

I don't think it's so much that the dung/thoughtful ratio has become worse so much as it just becomes more noticeable the longer one posts here and starts deviating from using this board for information and become more social.

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.

Things seem to be better now than they have for a while. I understand that, even in the absence of trolls or loudmouths, a forum that's active every day is going to more often have a social rather than a serious flavor. Maybe if the forum were able to contain the games and arguments apart from the serious questions and substantive answers, I'd be less hesitant to recommend it.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2016, 10:26:04 PM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

I've certainly learned here, and seen some impressive posts. Sometimes very impressive. I'd certainly recommend people use the Search function to benefit from the years of archives. However, such break throughs seem to come rarely, especially in later years, while the sheer amount of dung one has to float in and wrath one has to endure waiting on such apparitions throws their value into doubt.

I don't think it's so much that the dung/thoughtful ratio has become worse so much as it just becomes more noticeable the longer one posts here and starts deviating from using this board for information and become more social.

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.
Yep, this is definitely true.
God bless!

Offline Opus118

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2016, 11:32:22 PM »
Raylight:  Most Orthodox people in person are a whole lot more mellow about everything than typical posters on this forum.  They don't have anything to "prove."  They are not fanatics, but they aren't nominal either.  They are just plain, ordinary Orthodox faithful.  Most American Orthodox that I have known AVOID the subject of worldly politics at Church and Coffee Hour because we want to remain friends with our fellow parishioners and get to know them as human beings.  I would never assume that everyone at Church would agree with me on a variety of political issues.  Nor would I feel such agreement is even necessary.  As my former priest used to say, "Politics is not dogma."  That is one thing that does separate Orthodoxy from some of the fundamentalist Protestant sects, as many of them do seem to make politics into dogma and have a hard time separating the Christian Church from Caesar. 

Other things that normal, everyday Orthodox faithful don't worry about or obsess about are:
1.  The Creation versus Evolution debates of fundamentalistic Protestantism
2.  The Rapture nonsense of the Dispensationalists.
3.  Endless debates and worries about tithing. (Some Orthodox do tithe, but they don't blow a trumpet about it and demand it of everyone like the Baptists do.)
4.  The whole "certainty of salvation" thing that the born agains and Evangelicals are always talking and worrying about.
5.  Heated arguments over which Bible translation to use.  (Most Orthodox simply use whatever version their parish priest recommends.)
6.  Being relevant, hip, cool, up-to-date with "praise bands," large video screens in church, drums, electric guitars, and the use of so-called "Contemporary Christian Music" (which really means pop music with a Christian lite text)
7.  Using that "Christian fish" symbol on everything, esp. vehicles.  Most Orthodox Christians prefer using the Cross.
8.  Demonizing everyone outside the Orthodox Church that disagrees with us. (Some individual Orthodox might do that, but honestly, the typical Orthodox response to that is to respect the person's free will (and that includes the free will to accept heresy) and to politely state the Orthodox point of view and leave it at that.  Most Orthodox are secure enough in their beliefs not to argue with the non-Orthodox about religion. Just because we believe we belong to the One True Church doesn't mean we have to be rude, obnoxious or arrogant about it.  We can be quiet and humble. or ought to try to be.

I like 8 the best. 2-6 are not things that I have seen/heard outside of this forum.
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Offline Opus118

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2016, 11:42:29 PM »
Most of the fanatics are probably in ROCOR ;)
or out in one of those "true orthodox" sects that have all of you under anathema because you're in communion with a bishop who's in communion with a bishop who's in communion with a bishop who once blessed some food when his archpriest's Papist brother-in-law was somewhere in the same county, and that is clearly STRICTLY FORBIDDEN BY THE CANONS that all Orthodox followed WITHOUT EXCEPTION until they changed the calendar because of the pan-heresy of ecumenism!!! ::) ::) ::)
I do admit to skewing fanatic though :(

I do not think Maria (GOC) was a fanatic, but she was needlessly persecuted here over and over again in regard to trivial issues. I do not think the issue is jurisdiction but one of sickening egoistic behavior.
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline Opus118

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2016, 11:46:29 PM »

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.

I liked this post, but I have not seen excessive ecumenism beyond my liberalism and my support of ecumenism, unless you are talking about me.
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2016, 12:03:58 AM »

Things seem to be better now than they have for a while. I understand that, even in the absence of trolls or loudmouths, a forum that's active every day is going to more often have a social rather than a serious flavor. Maybe if the forum were able to contain the games and arguments apart from the serious questions and substantive answers, I'd be less hesitant to recommend it.

I do not see things as better now. I am guessing that I differ on who you think are trolls. But even true trolls can lead to beneficial lines of inquiry.  I think the posts here that have had the greatest impact on my life (and they were major) did not involve any intellectual discussion but dealt more with having the mindset to deal with adversity. Levity is also useful, except when it is used to subvert someone's attempt to have a serious discussion. I suspect you agree with the latter.
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline wgw

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2016, 12:04:49 AM »
The kind of Orthodoxy I find online in general is very different than anything I have experienced in the parishes I have attended. I will also note that I find that to be a good thing.

This point is correct, and has also been made I believe by either Fr. Andrew Damick or one of his friends as well. 

Basically, when we flame each other to a crisp over some trivial issue, which happens on this forum, and on other online Orthodox communitiies, we do not behave in an Orthodox manner.

Also some of the questions we like to discuss, for example, involvimg the Roman Catholic Church or the Protestants, and some of the polemics, are unlikely to be encountered in most parishes.

I only encountered one Orthodox community where in the Trapeza there was hostile discussion of other faith communities, and it was an Old Calendarist parish which broke away from ROCOR and which has acquired a bad reputation in the Old Calendarist community.

Orthodoxy requires calm, and I think on the Net we are in an environment that promotes a lack of tranquility and makes us be quick to engage in idle talk of a judgmental and occasionally wrathful character; I think if we were all conversing face to face, if OC.com was happening in a hotel convention center or an especially large cathedral instead of an internet forum, most of the bitter exchanges that happen wouldn't.  I feel like the mods of this site are aware of this and work to push us in the right direction. 

Online Orthodoxy however can never serve as the substitute for going to church.   If one is subject to the unfortunate constraints I have dealt with in recent years that have reduced my attendance from what it should have been, OCNet cannot provide a substitute; what we do is attend as often as we can, and if sickness gets in the way a visit from the priest can also help.   That is where the Church can actually be found: when we meet each other face to face in the Temple and pray and id we happen to have a clergy,an of the right rank around, receive the mysteries.

So what we do here is not the Church, it is a discussion about the church, a fellowship of members of the Church, but it will never have what the Church has to offer when we are at or with the church in the flesh, and I fear we will always have to deal with easily inflamed tempers owing to the lack of face to face communication.  One can write easily horrible insults, and take a perverse pleasure in doing so, to someone on the Internet that I would be inhibited from saying to anyone, to their face...that is a danger of this form of communication.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2016, 12:21:08 AM »
I do not see things as better now.

Well, I hadn't been around for a little while, and things seem relatively peaceful and sober to me now, but I may well be out of the loop.

When I have left, it hasn't been because of others but because of myself.

Quote
I am guessing that I differ on who you think are trolls. But even true trolls can lead to beneficial lines of inquiry.

While I think there have been a few obvious trolls, and more obvious trolling from folks who are sometimes serious, I think what I'm trying to say with "trolls and loudmouths" is more a spirit of the board that waxes and wanes, and that a very few never succumb to -- but that is certainly not at all one or two individuals' fault. I have felt myself gripped by this spirit enough that I stopped coming to the board.
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2016, 12:39:45 AM »

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.

I liked this post, but I have not seen excessive ecumenism beyond my liberalism and my support of ecumenism, unless you are talking about me.

I really didn't have anyone specific in mind, just wanted to be sure I had all the bases covered :D

There have been a few posters who would argue that Orthodoxy is no different from religion brand x. Much like the other examples, such posters tend to not last longer than a month.
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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2016, 12:44:59 AM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

I've certainly learned here, and seen some impressive posts. Sometimes very impressive. I'd certainly recommend people use the Search function to benefit from the years of archives. However, such break throughs seem to come rarely, especially in later years, while the sheer amount of dung one has to float in and wrath one has to endure waiting on such apparitions throws their value into doubt.

I don't think it's so much that the dung/thoughtful ratio has become worse so much as it just becomes more noticeable the longer one posts here and starts deviating from using this board for information and become more social.

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.

Things seem to be better now than they have for a while. I understand that, even in the absence of trolls or loudmouths, a forum that's active every day is going to more often have a social rather than a serious flavor. Maybe if the forum were able to contain the games and arguments apart from the serious questions and substantive answers, I'd be less hesitant to recommend it.

I think the main problem is the home page gets clogged with the hot topics and the good conversations get lost in the feedback. If there were a way to limit the recent posts so that the default was to only show a topic once (instead of, say, an entire line of brexit, just to use an example from this afternoon) it would greatly improve the forum overall.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2016, 01:08:25 AM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

I've certainly learned here, and seen some impressive posts. Sometimes very impressive. I'd certainly recommend people use the Search function to benefit from the years of archives. However, such break throughs seem to come rarely, especially in later years, while the sheer amount of dung one has to float in and wrath one has to endure waiting on such apparitions throws their value into doubt.

I don't think it's so much that the dung/thoughtful ratio has become worse so much as it just becomes more noticeable the longer one posts here and starts deviating from using this board for information and become more social.

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.

Things seem to be better now than they have for a while. I understand that, even in the absence of trolls or loudmouths, a forum that's active every day is going to more often have a social rather than a serious flavor. Maybe if the forum were able to contain the games and arguments apart from the serious questions and substantive answers, I'd be less hesitant to recommend it.

I think the main problem is the home page gets clogged with the hot topics and the good conversations get lost in the feedback. If there were a way to limit the recent posts so that the default was to only show a topic once (instead of, say, an entire line of brexit, just to use an example from this afternoon) it would greatly improve the forum overall.

I think it's more than just what shows up where. I think the posters' mindsets would also have to have a way to switch from "acrimonious ironic fun" to "humble questions and discussion." (And posters whose mindset isn't able to switch would have limited accesses, but that's a whole other subject.)
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2016, 01:25:12 AM »
I think the only way to get rid of acrimonious irony would be to purge the GenXers. As a member of that demographic, even if only by a hair, I hesitate to go that far!

Honestly, just cleaning the cruft from the front page would help a lot - at least for me. I only have a limited amount of browsing time each day, so the front page conversations are usually all I see  (aside from updated topics). In a line of twenty or so of the same topic, I often find myself joining a conversation once things have already taken a turn for the silly.

This is off topic, though, for which I'm partially to blame. Forum improvement is a theme for another time!
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Offline Dominika

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2016, 06:06:01 AM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

I've certainly learned here, and seen some impressive posts. Sometimes very impressive. I'd certainly recommend people use the Search function to benefit from the years of archives. However, such break throughs seem to come rarely, especially in later years, while the sheer amount of dung one has to float in and wrath one has to endure waiting on such apparitions throws their value into doubt.

I don't think it's so much that the dung/thoughtful ratio has become worse so much as it just becomes more noticeable the longer one posts here and starts deviating from using this board for information and become more social.

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.

Things seem to be better now than they have for a while. I understand that, even in the absence of trolls or loudmouths, a forum that's active every day is going to more often have a social rather than a serious flavor. Maybe if the forum were able to contain the games and arguments apart from the serious questions and substantive answers, I'd be less hesitant to recommend it.

I think the main problem is the home page gets clogged with the hot topics and the good conversations get lost in the feedback. If there were a way to limit the recent posts so that the default was to only show a topic once (instead of, say, an entire line of brexit, just to use an example from this afternoon) it would greatly improve the forum overall.
+1

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2016, 01:24:24 PM »
I think the only way to get rid of acrimonious irony would be to purge the GenXers. As a member of that demographic, even if only by a hair, I hesitate to go that far!

This must be a cultural reference that's over my head. Sure, there are men in their forties here, and perhaps some of them can be short-tempered, but there are huge numbers of posters in their twenties and early thirties, and not a few who are above fifty. We ran some numbers on this after a poll a while ago, and I think "generation X" would have been the smallest number in generations represented.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 01:24:48 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2016, 01:29:32 AM »

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.

I liked this post, but I have not seen excessive ecumenism beyond my liberalism and my support of ecumenism, unless you are talking about me.

I really didn't have anyone specific in mind, just wanted to be sure I had all the bases covered :D

There have been a few posters who would argue that Orthodoxy is no different from religion brand x. Much like the other examples, such posters tend to not last longer than a month.
A good example of the type of excessive ecumenical view could be found in this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69269.msg1405604.html#msg1405604
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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2016, 01:50:47 AM »
I think the only way to get rid of acrimonious irony would be to purge the GenXers. As a member of that demographic, even if only by a hair, I hesitate to go that far!

This must be a cultural reference that's over my head. Sure, there are men in their forties here, and perhaps some of them can be short-tempered, but there are huge numbers of posters in their twenties and early thirties, and not a few who are above fifty. We ran some numbers on this after a poll a while ago, and I think "generation X" would have been the smallest number in generations represented.

For once, I'm not actually making an exact cultural reference (my IRL friends would be shocked!). Gen X would cover, depending on the source, anyone currently 35/36 going to about 56. The snarkiest of us (and I include myself) would fall into this range for the most part. I find the "Millennials" who post here to be extremely sincere, if sometimes quite wrongheaded, and the Baby Boomers tend to be more sincere as well. There will be some slight deviation - older Gen Xers fall more in line with Boomer modes of expression, and Millennials who were born closer to me tend to have more Gen Xer perspectives.

When speaking of irony, I think less of temper and more of tone. Someone can be quite short-tempered and have no grasp of irony whatsoever. The younger generation can be easily riled, but many of the comedians I grew up on bewail the younger generation because the ironic/sarcastic/satirical statements of my age fly right over the heads of this newer generation who seem to take everything at face value. One would almost think that these kids find A Modest Proposal to be a reprehensible cookbook (this has anecdotal evidence in my independent research).
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2016, 10:22:04 AM »
Most of the fanatics are probably in ROCOR ;)
or out in one of those "true orthodox" sects that have all of you under anathema because you're in communion with a bishop who's in communion with a bishop who's in communion with a bishop who once blessed some food when his archpriest's Papist brother-in-law was somewhere in the same county, and that is clearly STRICTLY FORBIDDEN BY THE CANONS that all Orthodox followed WITHOUT EXCEPTION until they changed the calendar because of the pan-heresy of ecumenism!!! ::) ::) ::)
I do admit to skewing fanatic though :(

I do not think Maria (GOC) was a fanatic, but she was needlessly persecuted here over and over again in regard to trivial issues. I do not think the issue is jurisdiction but one of sickening egoistic behavior.

I forgot Maria has been gone, I wish she would return, at least the conversations where fascinating. She was pretty nice too.

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Re: OC.net and Eastern Orthodox in reality.
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2016, 10:25:42 AM »
There are people here in OC at high level of theological knowledge.

I've certainly learned here, and seen some impressive posts. Sometimes very impressive. I'd certainly recommend people use the Search function to benefit from the years of archives. However, such break throughs seem to come rarely, especially in later years, while the sheer amount of dung one has to float in and wrath one has to endure waiting on such apparitions throws their value into doubt.

I don't think it's so much that the dung/thoughtful ratio has become worse so much as it just becomes more noticeable the longer one posts here and starts deviating from using this board for information and become more social.

Also, those of us who post for any length of time can start to become burned out by getting on the merry-go-round time and again. There are only so many times one can go over the same arguments against papalism, or engage Protestant X of the week, or fight super traditionalists over Jewish doctors and calendars, or liberals over excessive ecuminicism without becoming jaded and engaging the sarcasm button willy nilly.

There was a debate over Jewish doctors here before? I didn't even know your doctor background was a big deal by traditionalists.