Author Topic: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC  (Read 1666 times)

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Offline Minnesotan

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NEW YORK — A New York City municipal pool that maintains female-only hours so that Hasidic Jewish women can swim with no men present has raised alarms among critics who say the accommodation to a particular religious group violates the constitutional separation of church and state.

But defenders say the women-only swim sessions at the Metropolitan Recreation Center give women whose community separates the sexes a rare chance to exercise.

"Why deprive them?" said New York state Assemblyman Dov Hikind, a Democrat who represents a heavily Orthodox Jewish district in Brooklyn. "Really, you're not taking away from anyone else."


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Offline Elisha

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2016, 01:13:24 PM »
I wonder if Muslim women would take the opportunity to swim too or not dare associate with Jews (and vice versa if a Muslim women group proposed a similar swim time).

Offline eddybear

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 01:36:32 PM »
A swimming pool near where I used to live had women-only times. Not for any religious reason, but just because some women are more comfortable without men around. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Offline Svartzorn

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 01:40:32 PM »
Fear the LURKER!!11!

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Offline Svartzorn

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 02:12:24 PM »
/\

Mixing up a religious millenar tradition with the rules of the western civil society.
I say, where's your thread in support of female ordinance?  ::)
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 03:18:46 PM »

As a woman...I can fully understand the modesty and comfort factor. 

However, this is a municipal pool, no?  Paid by tax dollars?  This is where the issue arises.

If a particular group wish to segregate others from use of common property, then perhaps they ought to build their own community center.  As private property they can set whatever rules they wish.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 04:22:29 PM »
We have women-only hours in train vagons here in Rio. I think it's a nice initiative many people can benefit of, not only those in strict religious traditions.
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 04:28:15 PM »
shouldn't they have 'men's only" hours also-that would be fair.
Proverbs 22:7

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 04:34:15 PM »
/\

Mixing up a religious millenar tradition with the rules of the western civil society.
I say, where's your thread in support of female ordinance?  ::)

One historical reference deserved another, that's all.  You're reading a whole lot more into it than is justified, but I expected that. 
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2016, 05:44:26 PM »
shouldn't they have 'men's only" hours also-that would be fair.

I'm sure the MRA's would be up in arms about this if they knew. STOP POOL MISANDRY!
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Offline vamrat

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2016, 03:01:02 PM »
/\

Mixing up a religious millenar tradition with the rules of the western civil society.
I say, where's your thread in support of female ordinance?  ::)

One historical reference deserved another, that's all.  You're reading a whole lot more into it than is justified, but I expected that.

There is the issue that this is a matter of religious discrimination.  With Mount Athos it is an autonomous political entity so can make it's own laws.  In the U.S., you cannot subject someone to anothers religious values...supposedly.  Yes, an argument could be made that this is discrimination vs men, but I think a better case is that it is subjecting non-Jews to Jewish traditions.

Or something.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2016, 03:04:10 PM »
...but I think a better case is that it is subjecting non-Jews to Jewish traditions.

I'm a non-Jew from New York, I know a bit about this.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2016, 03:38:41 PM »
Aren't there pools in NYC which have hours strictly for Muslim women?  Is that OK and if so, why is it not OK to have pool hours strictly for women who are Orthodox Jews?
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2016, 03:52:23 PM »
For me this would 100% depend on how it is labelled.


'Women only hours' would appeal to many women....

'Orthodox Jewish segregated women's hours' is less so.  And particularly if the case is something like 'Pool closed' and they dont tell people why other than a 'private party' sort of thing.

So I would ask, is the pool open to ALL women during these hours...or just a particular subset based on religion.
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Offline Bob2

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2016, 06:27:14 PM »
As long as it isn't limited to only cisgendered women, then that would be discrimination.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2016, 07:09:04 PM »
Finally a place where I don't have to worry about men checking me out!


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Offline hecma925

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2016, 12:58:17 AM »
You look quite fetching in that color, Tris.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2016, 10:48:52 PM »
Stop objectifying me. You men are all the same. I'M MORE THAN JUST A SEXY PIECE OF MEAT!!!
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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2016, 11:47:21 PM »
^It sounds like you are being offered the position of OrthodoxChristianity.net's sex symbol. :angel:  You should go for it. :police:

Offline biro

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2016, 12:06:12 AM »
For me this would 100% depend on how it is labelled.


'Women only hours' would appeal to many women....

'Orthodox Jewish segregated women's hours' is less so.  And particularly if the case is something like 'Pool closed' and they dont tell people why other than a 'private party' sort of thing.

So I would ask, is the pool open to ALL women during these hours...or just a particular subset based on religion.

Uh, lotsa women in New York *are* Orthodox Jews.

If they own the pool or gym property, they can make the membership rules.

As any property owner gets to make rules.

I learned to swim in 1977 at a Jewish women's gym. My family wasn't Jewish. They let us take classes anyway.

Nothing happened, and nothing probably will here.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 12:09:22 AM »
For me this would 100% depend on how it is labelled.


'Women only hours' would appeal to many women....

'Orthodox Jewish segregated women's hours' is less so.  And particularly if the case is something like 'Pool closed' and they dont tell people why other than a 'private party' sort of thing.

So I would ask, is the pool open to ALL women during these hours...or just a particular subset based on religion.

Uh, lotsa women in New York *are* Orthodox Jews.

If they own the pool or gym property, they can make the membership rules.

As any property owner gets to make rules.

I learned to swim in 1977 at a Jewish women's gym. My family wasn't Jewish. They let us take classes anyway.

Nothing happened, and nothing probably will here.


It's a NYC municipal pool.

So private rules do not apply.

You might want to actually read what I posted and the original post for that matter.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2016, 12:10:55 AM »
Uh, lotsa women in New York *are* Orthodox Jews.

If they own the pool or gym property, they can make the membership rules.

As any property owner gets to make rules.

I learned to swim in 1977 at a Jewish women's gym. My family wasn't Jewish. They let us take classes anyway.

Nothing happened, and nothing probably will here.

NEW YORK — A New York City municipal pool that maintains female-only hours so that Hasidic Jewish women can swim with no men present has raised alarms among critics who say the accommodation to a particular religious group violates the constitutional separation of church and state.

More here.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 12:55:22 AM »
Stop objectifying me. You men are all the same. I'M MORE THAN JUST A SEXY PIECE OF MEAT!!!

Were you the inspiration for the Scorpions song with the similar title? ???

Offline minasoliman

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2016, 01:16:57 AM »
I've heard of cases where a pool owned by a municipality was closed off to the public for a high school swim team practice.  The argument of separation of religion and state may not apply if to accommodate a large portion of the community, and may compare Hasidic Jewish women's needs for recreational time to themselves to similar needs of teenage children practicing sports.

So I can see the argument go either way here.  It would be an interesting case to follow-up with.  Plus municipalities are slightly different in how to regulate public space than, say a "federally-owned" area.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 01:17:27 AM by minasoliman »
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2016, 01:51:28 AM »
Stop objectifying me. You men are all the same. I'M MORE THAN JUST A SEXY PIECE OF MEAT!!!

Were you the inspiration for the Scorpions song with the similar title? ???

Fun fact: The Scorpions actually created a minor baby boom in France in 1985 with their song "Still Loving You".
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Offline hecma925

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Re: No men allowed: Women-only pool hours draw complaints in NYC
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2016, 01:55:34 AM »
Stop objectifying me. You men are all the same. I'M MORE THAN JUST A SEXY PIECE OF MEAT!!!

There's a hole in my backyard with water in it.  You are allowed there whenever you want.
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