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Author Topic: Strange icons  (Read 38037 times) Average Rating: 0
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LBK
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« Reply #810 on: September 08, 2014, 09:59:27 AM »

These are of Sts Joachim and Anna, with their daughter, the (future) Mother of God. The old man at the base of the tree looking up at her is the forefather Jesse, the father of David the King and Psalmist.

The tree represents the root of Jesse, a prophecy of the Incarnation from Isaiah 11: There shall come forth a rod from the root of Jesse, and a flower shall grow out of the root.

The Virgin is the rod of Jesse, and her Son is the flower. This imagery is clearly expressed in this hymn from the Nativity of the Lord:

Rod out of Jesse’s root, and flower that blossomed from his stem, O Christ, You have sprung from the Virgin, the praised from the mountain overshadowed by forest; You have come, made flesh from her who knew not wedlock, yet God not formed of matter. Glory to Your power, O Lord.

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« Reply #811 on: September 21, 2014, 09:39:49 PM »

"Mother of God and Emanuel in traditional Ukrainian regional garb."

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« Reply #812 on: September 21, 2014, 09:51:41 PM »

Why is her mantle red and not blue?  Huh
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« Reply #813 on: September 21, 2014, 10:28:06 PM »

I'm fairly certain that the iconographic standard for the Theotokos is to have a red mantle over blue in contrast to the frequent depiction of Christ wearing blue over red.
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« Reply #814 on: September 21, 2014, 11:12:03 PM »

I'm fairly certain that the iconographic standard for the Theotokos is to have a red mantle over blue in contrast to the frequent depiction of Christ wearing blue over red.

It is not simply a visual contrast.

The red tunic of Christ represents His divinity and His status as King of Kings, while the blue mantle represents His clothing with humanity through His Incarnation. The Mother of God wears a blue tunic, as she was fully human and mortal as we all are, but her mantle is red, signifying her being graced by Divinity in conceiving and bearing God Incarnate.

The Ukrainian "icon" is nothing more than folk-nationalistic schlock, I'm afraid. Well-intentioned, I'm sure, but still very wrong, and unsuitable for veneration.
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« Reply #815 on: September 21, 2014, 11:29:27 PM »

I'm fairly certain that the iconographic standard for the Theotokos is to have a red mantle over blue in contrast to the frequent depiction of Christ wearing blue over red.

It is not simply a visual contrast.

The red tunic of Christ represents His divinity and His status as King of Kings, while the blue mantle represents His clothing with humanity through His Incarnation. The Mother of God wears a blue tunic, as she was fully human and mortal as we all are, but her mantle is red, signifying her being graced by Divinity in conceiving and bearing God Incarnate.

That's my understanding as well.
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« Reply #816 on: September 24, 2014, 07:25:45 PM »



Yep, that's St. Gadget Hackwrench of Disneyworld.
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« Reply #817 on: September 24, 2014, 07:34:21 PM »

I'm fairly certain that the iconographic standard for the Theotokos is to have a red mantle over blue in contrast to the frequent depiction of Christ wearing blue over red.

It is not simply a visual contrast.

The red tunic of Christ represents His divinity and His status as King of Kings, while the blue mantle represents His clothing with humanity through His Incarnation. The Mother of God wears a blue tunic, as she was fully human and mortal as we all are, but her mantle is red, signifying her being graced by Divinity in conceiving and bearing God Incarnate.

The Ukrainian "icon" is nothing more than folk-nationalistic schlock, I'm afraid. Well-intentioned, I'm sure, but still very wrong, and unsuitable for veneration.

I stand corrected. Thank you.
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« Reply #818 on: September 28, 2014, 07:17:57 AM »

I think it has been posted somewhere and discussed (however, surely not in this thread) but probably not this particular version; it's from a Serbian monastery, it seems to be Gradac (XIII c). If the exact fresco was posted, I'm sorry for the duplication Tongue

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« Reply #819 on: September 28, 2014, 07:38:47 AM »

I think it has been posted somewhere and discussed (however, surely not in this thread) but probably not this particular version; it's from a Serbian monastery, it seems to be Gradac (XIII c). If the exact fresco was posted, I'm sorry for the duplication Tongue



This is an icon of Christ as the Ancient of Days, as seen in the inscription IC-XC, painted in the four red medallions either side of Him. The double halo is rather odd, but everything else is quite proper.

In the lower section of the icon are these words from the hymn at the Eucharistic Canon: Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord Sabaoth! Heaven and earth are full of Your glory.
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« Reply #820 on: September 28, 2014, 10:14:08 AM »

LBK as always full of knowledge Cheesy Thank you for the explanation, as I hadn't any idea what the type of icon is it, and I couldn't read "heaven and earth..." - I was also wondering, why there on the left is written "Holy Holy..." Wink Well, I'm still wondering a bit. Maybe it' more connected with the fragment of the book of the prophet Isaiah or the Apocalypsis?...
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« Reply #821 on: September 28, 2014, 10:20:26 AM »

LBK as always full of knowledge Cheesy Thank you for the explanation, as I hadn't any idea what the type of icon is it, and I couldn't read "heaven and earth..." - I was also wondering, why there on the left is written "Holy Holy..." Wink Well, I'm still wondering a bit. Maybe it' more connected with the fragment of the book of the prophet Isaiah or the Apocalypsis?...

The words Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord Sabaoth are on the left side, Heaven and earth are full of Your glory are on the right. The words are from Isaiah 6:3, and through this have become part of the Eucharistic hymn.
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« Reply #822 on: September 28, 2014, 12:13:59 PM »

LBK as always full of knowledge Cheesy Thank you for the explanation, as I hadn't any idea what the type of icon is it, and I couldn't read "heaven and earth..." - I was also wondering, why there on the left is written "Holy Holy..." Wink Well, I'm still wondering a bit. Maybe it' more connected with the fragment of the book of the prophet Isaiah or the Apocalypsis?...

The words Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord Sabaoth are on the left side, Heaven and earth are full of Your glory are on the right. The words are from Isaiah 6:3, and through this have become part of the Eucharistic hymn.

Yes, I know Smiley I'm wondering why these particular words are written next to this particular image of Christ, why not diffrent quotation from the Bible or the Liturgy. So that's why I thought that in this context these words are more like from Isaiah or Apocalypsis (I know, the words are the same, I mean the background), than from Eucharistic Canon, I mean, their more "suitable" for such kind of Christ's icon - I hope now I put it clearly.
Anyway, interesting case, rather not so common.
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« Reply #823 on: September 28, 2014, 12:57:05 PM »

I'm fairly certain that the iconographic standard for the Theotokos is to have a red mantle over blue in contrast to the frequent depiction of Christ wearing blue over red.

It is not simply a visual contrast.

The red tunic of Christ represents His divinity and His status as King of Kings, while the blue mantle represents His clothing with humanity through His Incarnation. The Mother of God wears a blue tunic, as she was fully human and mortal as we all are, but her mantle is red, signifying her being graced by Divinity in conceiving and bearing God Incarnate.

Yet one can find other sources which claim the opposite meanings for the colors.  Blue, the color of the sky, represents divinity and red, the color of blood, represents humanity.  Christ's blue over red represents his clothing our humanity with his divinity, the Birth-giver's red over blue represents her containing the divinity within her womb.  And of course we have the mosaics of Hagia Sophia and other churches of Constantinople, wear blue and gold predominate most icons of the Christ and his Mother. 
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