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falafel333
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« on: August 18, 2005, 12:58:39 AM »

I was just wandering what kind of prayer rule most people follow. Does it involve praying the Divine Office (which one), Prostrations, Jesus Prayer, Meditation, Contemplation, Other Prayers, Thanks...

How about Scripture and Spiritual Reading, how do u fit that into ur day and how much?

Thanks
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2005, 01:08:05 AM »

i dont know about everyone here, but most people are advised to keep their prayer rule private. It's just something between a person, their spiritual director, and God.

There are excellent guidelines in place. There are the church's daily epistle and gospel readings. There are the morning and evening prayers, and the are the prayers of the hours. What someone does is their business alone. If you're searching for what may be good for you, your priest should be able to help you with that.
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2005, 02:44:01 AM »

very true choirfeind...
I don't have much regarding prayer rule, since I don't at the moment have a spiritual father (haven't in quite a while, actually, actually, never really have had one, though when I need advise I usually just go to my dad, whose a priest).
However, lately (past 3-4 months) I find myself saying "Gospodi Pomiluy" very often.  Even when I'm not even thinking of religion (which is unfortunately often) suddenly "Gospodi Pomiluy" will pop into my head.  Sometimes its if I yell at a stupid driver, or sometimes it's at work when I have to deal with a specifically difficult accounting problem.
Most interesting of all, since I am taking courses in Massage Therapy, I've been thinking that at school.  Massage is associated with a lot of Yoga and all that cr@p, and when I have to concentrate on providing a client with an excellent (I hope) massage, I find myself chanting "Gospodi Pomiluy" (funeral melody, I think 5th or 6th tone) along with my strokes, rather than paying attention to the New Age stuff they play on the stereo. 
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2005, 04:21:04 AM »

Even different monks within the same monastery will have different rules.  The key is finding a spiritual father and being obedient to his guidence and consistent.  It is better to do a short prayer rule everyday than have a super long one by skip it every few days. 

As to Ania, I find Κύριε Ελέησον to be much better than Господии Помилуй. 
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2005, 11:52:42 PM »

I agree that a Prayer Rule should be kept a private matter but I think there is nothing wrong sharing a little as long as you have you spiritual father's blessing and have discussed it with him a bit first. I will just share that I think finding silence is hard enough in our modern U.S. let alone being able to say our Prayers with the attention that is appropriate. Often I just at random, when I have free time, say to myself, I am going to be quiet for just a little while and pray the Jesus Prayer ten times but at each repetition I will devote all my concentration and not let any demon disturb me. Often after telling myself this and firmly resolving to do so I can pray much more than ten repititions and thank God all the more for giving me this gift of being able to pray with an undivided heart for longer.

As others have said there are many Prayer Rules out there. I would love to pray the Hours (Office) but there is much more to this in the Orthodox Church and I still have not learned enough Liturgics to do this properly on my own. Besides I have a hard enough time saying the Morning and Evening Prayers from the Jordanville Prayerbook to think about making it a Rule to say the Hours!

falafel333 you  sound as if you are coming from Roman Catholicism. I mean no offense in saying this but I seldom hear Orthodox mention meditation or contemplation when discussing prayer. I would just like to say that something I find good that is emphasized in Roman Catholicism, at least the Roman Catholic Tradtionalists I have read wrote this, is that in order to pray properly one must cultivate a love for silence. This is said constantly by the Fathers in the Orthodox Church but so many get "jazzed up" whent they hear about Prayer Ropes and the Jesus Prayer that they forget that the cultivation of the love for silence and the calming of the mind is absolutely necessary before even attempting to become a Hesychast. Amazing that they fail to realize this whent the Hesychia means silence!

That is all I have to write for now. I pray that all of you will are drawing ever closer to the Lord and are not sliding backwards as I constantly am!
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2005, 05:27:05 PM »

Until recently, I had always worked shifts and so regular prayer was difficult.  I started to pray the Office in the Anglican Breviary, but have since moved on to the Sarum Psalter.  I wish to begin using the Saint Colman Prayer Book, which should arrive in the post soon.  This will be my first Orthodox Office book, based on the Sarum office.
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2005, 10:25:32 AM »

Just  aquick response to Sabbas, I think you are right. There is not too much talk about silence generally, but I listened to talk given by Father Thomas Hopko recently and he really made it a point to stress silence in fact he even said it should be considered one of the sacraments. So the importance of silence is definately talked about.
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2014, 03:00:02 PM »

I'm having a hard time with orthodoxy prayers. I have started my own little prayer rule got the prayers from the oca website. I feel sinful in saying prayers to marry and Jesus. Only my second day but I don't feel right about it
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2014, 03:19:49 PM »

I'm having a hard time with orthodoxy prayers. I have started my own little prayer rule got the prayers from the oca website. I feel sinful in saying prayers to marry and Jesus. Only my second day but I don't feel right about it

Why do you feel sinful?
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 03:33:44 PM »

I'm having a hard time with orthodoxy prayers. I have started my own little prayer rule got the prayers from the oca website. I feel sinful in saying prayers to marry and Jesus. Only my second day but I don't feel right about it


Why do you feel sinful?
that I should only be asking God for things. Plus the wording is very strong in some of the marry prayers. Then in the morning prayers not one said to Jesus. It's God marry angle
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2014, 03:46:12 PM »

How about this one?

http://oca.org/orthodoxy/prayers/morning-prayers
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O Lord Almighty, God of hosts and of all flesh, dwelling in the highest, caring for the humble, searching the reins and the heart, and clearly discerning the hidden things of men - O unoriginate and ever-existing Light, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change, do Thou, O immortal King, accept our prayers which we offer to Thee at this present time from our soiled lips, trusting in the multitude of Thy bounties - forgive us our transgressions which we have committed knowingly or unknowingly, whether in word or deed or thought; cleanse us from all stain of body and soul. Grant us to pass through all the night of this present life with vigilant heart and sober thought, awaiting the coming of the radiant and manifest Day of Thy only-begotten Son, our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ, on which the judgment of all men shall come with glory, when to each man shall be given the reward of his deeds. May we not fall and become lazy, but instead have courage that, being roused to action, we may be found ready to enter into the joy and the divine bride-chamber of His glory, where the voice of those who feast is unceasing, and the gladness of those who behold the goodness of Thy countenance is unending. For Thou art the True light Who enlightenest and sanctifiest all things, and all creation sings Thy praise forever. Amen.
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2014, 03:49:28 PM »

How about this one?

http://oca.org/orthodoxy/prayers/morning-prayers
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O Lord Almighty, God of hosts and of all flesh, dwelling in the highest, caring for the humble, searching the reins and the heart, and clearly discerning the hidden things of men - O unoriginate and ever-existing Light, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change, do Thou, O immortal King, accept our prayers which we offer to Thee at this present time from our soiled lips, trusting in the multitude of Thy bounties - forgive us our transgressions which we have committed knowingly or unknowingly, whether in word or deed or thought; cleanse us from all stain of body and soul. Grant us to pass through all the night of this present life with vigilant heart and sober thought, awaiting the coming of the radiant and manifest Day of Thy only-begotten Son, our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ, on which the judgment of all men shall come with glory, when to each man shall be given the reward of his deeds. May we not fall and become lazy, but instead have courage that, being roused to action, we may be found ready to enter into the joy and the divine bride-chamber of His glory, where the voice of those who feast is unceasing, and the gladness of those who behold the goodness of Thy countenance is unending. For Thou art the True light Who enlightenest and sanctifiest all things, and all creation sings Thy praise forever. Amen.

yes it mentions Jesus but the heading says prayer to God
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2014, 03:52:59 PM »

I'm having a hard time with orthodoxy prayers. I have started my own little prayer rule got the prayers from the oca website. I feel sinful in saying prayers to marry and Jesus. Only my second day but I don't feel right about it


Why do you feel sinful?
that I should only be asking God for things. Plus the wording is very strong in some of the marry prayers. Then in the morning prayers not one said to Jesus. It's God marry angle

If you're not Orthodox and are not comfortable with our prayers yet, it's not like there aren't other options.  You could start out simply by reciting the Trisagion prayers and a psalm or two. 
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2014, 04:02:09 PM »

I'm having a hard time with orthodoxy prayers. I have started my own little prayer rule got the prayers from the oca website. I feel sinful in saying prayers to marry and Jesus. Only my second day but I don't feel right about it


Why do you feel sinful?
that I should only be asking God for things. Plus the wording is very strong in some of the marry prayers. Then in the morning prayers not one said to Jesus. It's God marry angle

If you're not Orthodox and are not comfortable with our prayers yet, it's not like there aren't other options.  You could start out simply by reciting the Trisagion prayers and a psalm or two. 
well if I'm going to be orthodox I should have to get use to th he prayers.
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2014, 04:10:28 PM »

I know you are coming from a different background than myself, but when I began my journey into Orthodoxy, I too struggled with some of the verbiage and language used in the prayers. The mindset in Orthodoxy is much different than it is in other denominations and religions and it isn't always easy to master that. When I started, I accepted the parts I could accept and put out of my mind the parts that I couldn't. Then, as I learned more I began slowly looking back into those things and realized that many of my concerns and problems had dissolved away. I wish it could just be explained and that would be that, but for me, I couldn't do that. Perhaps accepting what you can and leaving the rest for right now is the best approach at this time.
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2014, 07:48:33 PM »

I know you are coming from a different background than myself, but when I began my journey into Orthodoxy, I too struggled with some of the verbiage and language used in the prayers. The mindset in Orthodoxy is much different than it is in other denominations and religions and it isn't always easy to master that. When I started, I accepted the parts I could accept and put out of my mind the parts that I couldn't. Then, as I learned more I began slowly looking back into those things and realized that many of my concerns and problems had dissolved away. I wish it could just be explained and that would be that, but for me, I coulydn't do that. Perhaps accepting what you can and leaving the rest for right now is the best approach at this time.
I agree just kinda wanted to share my struggle try to keep up with it. I do morning before work after work and bed time prayers. I'm thinking that's a good start
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2014, 07:53:30 PM »

I'm having a hard time with orthodoxy prayers. I have started my own little prayer rule got the prayers from the oca website. I feel sinful in saying prayers to marry and Jesus. Only my second day but I don't feel right about it


Why do you feel sinful?
that I should only be asking God for things. Plus the wording is very strong in some of the marry prayers. Then in the morning prayers not one said to Jesus. It's God marry angle

If you're not Orthodox and are not comfortable with our prayers yet, it's not like there aren't other options.  You could start out simply by reciting the Trisagion prayers and a psalm or two. 
well if I'm going to be orthodox I should have to get use to th he prayers.



One day yes, but not immediately though. I agree with Mor. The Trisagion and maybe the Creed and maybe a couple of Psalms is probably enough. I've always been told to start with less and add more as you progress.
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2014, 10:24:56 PM »

jewish voice, you could also talk to an Orthodox priest about it. He would be able to help you with a prayer rule, and also help you with your concerns about prayer.
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« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2014, 10:28:52 PM »

"The Lord's Prayer" is also actually a great prayer to start with.

Do that for some time.  But I wouldn't go deep into other prayers without consulting a priest.

Start small.
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« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2014, 10:32:51 PM »



If you're not Orthodox and are not comfortable with our prayers yet, it's not like there aren't other options.  You could start out simply by reciting the Trisagion prayers and a psalm or two. 

Our priest often the reading of the Psalms for those in marriages with Protestants, if the they (the spouse) are uncomfortable with other Orthodox prayers, because they are Orthodox prayers and they are in the Bible.
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2014, 12:08:52 AM »

i dont know about everyone here, but most people are advised to keep their prayer rule private. It's just something between a person, their spiritual director, and God.

The first rule of Prayer Club is you don't talk about Prayer Club.

Actually, it's easier than that. The first rule of Prayer Club is: just pray. Say the words you can say now, and maybe add, "I believe, help my unbelief."
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2014, 03:45:47 AM »

Still been saying them prayers that is but I feel lacking as I don't have a saint to pray to and wouldn't you know no orthodox saint with my name Catholic one but not orthodox  Angry
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2014, 07:41:23 AM »

Still been saying them prayers that is but I feel lacking as I don't have a saint to pray to and wouldn't you know no orthodox saint with my name Catholic one but not orthodox  Angry

What is your name, jewishvoice? PM me if you don't want to reveal it on the public forum. You'll be surprised how many "western" names are actually acceptable as Orthodox names.  Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2014, 10:52:39 AM »

Have you met with a priest yet? This way he can see what the problem is and can give pointers on what to do in your prayers.

One of tbe things I noticed is in Islam, prayer seems mechanical, like a meal.  While on the surface, that's good, deeper though, prayer should be a non-stop communion with God.  The rule of prayer is to "pray unceasingly", not five times a day.  It's a concept that may be difficult to understand conceptually, but the point of the prayers is to turn the words into something you really mean in your heart, so that when you are able to pray your own words, it reflects your own spiritual life, whether in struggle or in strength.

So while we may tell you what to pray, it's best to do so at the guidance of a spiritual adviser you are seeing in person, to make sure you are praying with the right mindset, and not just saying words that have no meaning in your life.

God bless
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2014, 05:46:35 PM »

Have you met with a priest yet? This way he can see what the problem is and can give pointers on what to do in your prayers.

One of tbe things I noticed is in Islam, prayer seems mechanical, like a meal.  While on the surface, that's good, deeper though, prayer should be a non-stop communion with God.  The rule of prayer is to "pray unceasingly", not five times a day.  It's a concept that may be difficult to understand conceptually, but the point of the prayers is to turn the words into something you really mean in your heart, so that when you are able to pray your own words, it reflects your own spiritual life, whether in struggle or in strength.

So while we may tell you what to pray, it's best to do so at the guidance of a spiritual adviser you are seeing in person, to make sure you are praying with the right mindset, and not just saying words that have no meaning in your life.

God bless
no cause of my job I'm never home. Why might be hard to even become orthodox
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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2014, 05:55:51 PM »

Still been saying them prayers that is but I feel lacking as I don't have a saint to pray to and wouldn't you know no orthodox saint with my name Catholic one but not orthodox  Angry

Until you get this figured out, maybe just accept St Paul as your patron saint.
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
Quote
A native of Tarsus, the capital city in the Roman province of Cilicia,[5] Paul wrote that he was "a Hebrew born of Hebrews", a Pharisee,[25] and one who advanced in Judaism beyond many of his peers. He also wrote that he was "unmarried", at least as early as his writing of I Corinthians 7:8, however some hold that he may have been married prior to that, due to certain textual analyses of his writings,[26] and other similar rationale. His initial reaction to the newly formed Christian movement was to zealously persecute its early followers and to violently attempt to destroy the movement. Paul's dramatic conversion while on the road to Damascus was clearly a life-altering event for him, changing him from being one of the early movement's most ardent persecutors to being one of its most fervent supporters.[7]

After his conversion, Paul began to preach that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.[27] His leadership, influence, and legacy led to the formation of communities dominated by Gentile groups that worshiped Jesus, adhered to the "Judaic moral code", but relaxed or abandoned the ritual and dietary teachings of the Law of Moses. He taught that these laws and rituals had either been fulfilled in the life of Christ or were symbolic precursors of Christ, though the exact relationship between Paul the Apostle and Judaism is still disputed. Paul taught of the life and works of Jesus Christ and his teaching of a New Covenant established through Jesus' death and resurrection. The Bible does not record Paul's death.
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« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2014, 07:03:24 PM »

Have you met with a priest yet? This way he can see what the problem is and can give pointers on what to do in your prayers.

One of tbe things I noticed is in Islam, prayer seems mechanical, like a meal.  While on the surface, that's good, deeper though, prayer should be a non-stop communion with God.  The rule of prayer is to "pray unceasingly", not five times a day.  It's a concept that may be difficult to understand conceptually, but the point of the prayers is to turn the words into something you really mean in your heart, so that when you are able to pray your own words, it reflects your own spiritual life, whether in struggle or in strength.

So while we may tell you what to pray, it's best to do so at the guidance of a spiritual adviser you are seeing in person, to make sure you are praying with the right mindset, and not just saying words that have no meaning in your life.

God bless
no cause of my job I'm never home. Why might be hard to even become orthodox

I'm not sure I understand your question.  But I will say, if it has to do with work schedule, I would think our priests would or should be more accommodating to your situation to help you out in any way possible.  If you like, send me a PM and perhaps there can be a way to see if we can help you get in touch with a priest.

Until then, I would encourage you to continue to ask questions if there is some prayer in particular that you are not understanding or having trouble with. As Orthodox, we do get into the habit of praying the psalms.  It's an ancient tradition.  4th century bishop and saint St. Athanasius shared a letter on how he prayed the psalms.

http://www.athanasius.com/psalms/aletterm.htm

We also have the Lord's Prayer:

Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name.  Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.  Give us this day our daily bread.  Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.  And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.  Through Christ Jesus our Lord, for Thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, now and forever. Amen!

I also recommend Metropolitan Anthony Bloom books on prayer:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0809115093/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?qid=1411945384&ref_=la_B001HCS4V2_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Prayer-Anthony-Bloom/dp/0872430545/ref=la_B001HCS4V2_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411945384&sr=1-2
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 07:04:08 PM by minasoliman » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2014, 07:27:20 PM »

Have you met with a priest yet? This way he can see what the problem is and can give pointers on what to do in your prayers.

One of tbe things I noticed is in Islam, prayer seems mechanical, like a meal.  While on the surface, that's good, deeper though, prayer should be a non-stop communion with God.  The rule of prayer is to "pray unceasingly", not five times a day.  It's a concept that may be difficult to understand conceptually, but the point of the prayers is to turn the words into something you really mean in your heart, so that when you are able to pray your own words, it reflects your own spiritual life, whether in struggle or in strength.

So while we may tell you what to pray, it's best to do so at the guidance of a spiritual adviser you are seeing in person, to make sure you are praying with the right mindset, and not just saying words that have no meaning in your life.

God bless
no cause of my job I'm never home. Why might be hard to even become orthodox

I'm not sure I understand your question.  But I will say, if it has to do with work schedule, I would think our priests would or should be more accommodating to your situation to help you out in any way possible.  If you like, send me a PM and perhaps there can be a way to see if we can help you get in touch with a priest.

Until then, I would encourage you to continue to ask questions if there is some prayer in particular that you are not understanding or having trouble with. As Orthodox, we do get into the habit of praying the psalms.  It's an ancient tradition.  4th century bishop and saint St. Athanasius shared a letter on how he prayed the psalms.

http://www.athanasius.com/psalms/aletterm.htm

We also have the Lord's Prayer:

Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name.  Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.  Give us this day our daily bread.  Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.  And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.  Through Christ Jesus our Lord, for Thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, now and forever. Amen!

I also recommend Metropolitan Anthony Bloom books on prayer:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0809115093/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?qid=1411945384&ref_=la_B001HCS4V2_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Prayer-Anthony-Bloom/dp/0872430545/ref=la_B001HCS4V2_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411945384&sr=1-2
I'm an otr driver so there are times I may never see a Sunday off for a few months at a time. There is an oca church in my town but I couldn't get an answer to my call no email listed. I'm trying to get off on a weekend in October and hope to check the church out and talk to the priest then. Other churches are around 40 miles away I have most to choose from Greek oca Russian Serbian and a Coptic church. If I can't get hold of the oca chuch.
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