Author Topic: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!  (Read 3610 times)

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Offline Ikonguru

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Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« on: May 24, 2016, 05:32:59 AM »
Apparently Muslim Turks have been making shoes and slippers with a cross in the sole. The shoe is considered unclean in Islam. This is a sign of contempt to Christianity, they want people to step on the cross !

http://remnantrocor.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/muslims-make-shoes-with-cross-on-bottom.html




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London has fallen!
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Offline Musashi

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2016, 06:28:07 AM »
Apparently Muslim Turks have been making shoes and slippers with a cross in the sole. The shoe is considered unclean in Islam. This is a sign of contempt to Christianity, they want people to step on the cross !

http://remnantrocor.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/muslims-make-shoes-with-cross-on-bottom.html




Turkey wants to join the EU and make London a new Mecca. We already have a Muslim Mayor!
London has fallen!

It is really irritating me to know there are ignorant community insults something I venerate.
I venerate the cross because our Lord has trampled the death up there.
Then I learned that cross is truly something contemptible in history.
If how crazy these moron insult us, it is incomparable with how sadistic those Jews insulted our Lord at the Cross 2000 years a go.
How sadistic our Martyrs were insulted and killed because of their faith in Christ.
Well, I only can say: Lord, forgive this people because they don't know what they have done.
This is only my self opinion.
Lord, have mercy
主や、爾の民を救い、爾の業に福を降し、吾が國に幸いを與へ、爾の十字架にて爾の住所を守り給え -TROPARION OF HOLY CROSS-

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2016, 08:11:20 AM »
Thread locked pending review
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Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 09:35:38 AM »
Topic unlock and moved to a new home where indignation may be freely expressed.
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Offline genesisone

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 11:11:52 AM »

Expressing my indignation? Perhaps a bit. Best to stay calm.

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 11:36:15 AM »
Genesisone - is that the Cross trampling the crescent?  If so, I like that!
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 11:39:29 AM »
That's extremely common in Russian churches, supposedly originating from victories over Muslim Tatars.
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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 11:41:08 AM »
Genesisone - is that the Cross trampling the crescent?  If so, I like that!

It is.  I like it, too.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2016, 11:45:49 AM »
Looking a little further into it, it looks like the pairing of the cross with the crescent goes back quite a ways and has nothing to do with Islam.
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Offline William T

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2016, 12:02:30 PM »
It's built to be mocked and ridiculed, that's a custom as old as Christ, if not older with some prophecies before His Incarnation alluding to that fact.  Get used to it, it's your job to.

At least the cross is of a tasteful design.  I don't think a modern anti-Christian American has that in him when he mocks things.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 12:03:09 PM by William T »

Offline William T

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2016, 12:10:24 PM »
Looking a little further into it, it looks like the pairing of the cross with the crescent goes back quite a ways and has nothing to do with Islam.

I just looked this up when I saw the picture.  The first thing I pulled up was the always reliable Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_cross

It says there see two varying accounts, one pre Islamic , one referring to Islam from some victory Ivan the Terrible had over Turkish forces.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 12:13:09 PM by William T »

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2016, 12:53:40 PM »
It's built to be mocked and ridiculed, that's a custom as old as Christ, if not older with some prophecies before His Incarnation alluding to that fact.  Get used to it, it's your job to.

At least the cross is of a tasteful design.  I don't think a modern anti-Christian American has that in him when he mocks things.

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2016, 12:56:11 PM »
Looking a little further into it, it looks like the pairing of the cross with the crescent goes back quite a ways and has nothing to do with Islam.

I just looked this up when I saw the picture.  The first thing I pulled up was the always reliable Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_cross

It says there see two varying accounts, one pre Islamic , one referring to Islam from some victory Ivan the Terrible had over Turkish forces.

Crosses of this type were found centuries before Ivan. Met. Hilarion points to the fact that the crescent moon was an ancient symbol of Byzantium which the Ottomans adopted after their conquest.
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Offline William T

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2016, 02:10:43 PM »
It's built to be mocked and ridiculed, that's a custom as old as Christ, if not older with some prophecies before His Incarnation alluding to that fact.  Get used to it, it's your job to.

At least the cross is of a tasteful design.  I don't think a modern anti-Christian American has that in him when he mocks things.

"If he's going to beat his wife, at least she's attractive."

It might be a more appropriate analogy to say it's at least less humiliating getting beat up by the WWF's Iron Sheik rather than Marilyn Manson.

Offline William T

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 02:22:50 PM »
Looking a little further into it, it looks like the pairing of the cross with the crescent goes back quite a ways and has nothing to do with Islam.

I just looked this up when I saw the picture.  The first thing I pulled up was the always reliable Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_cross

It says there see two varying accounts, one pre Islamic , one referring to Islam from some victory Ivan the Terrible had over Turkish forces.

Crosses of this type were found centuries before Ivan. Met. Hilarion points to the fact that the crescent moon was an ancient symbol of Byzantium which the Ottomans adopted after their conquest.

I've heard that the crescent was adopted by the Turks because there was a crescent moon the day they took Constantinople...not sure why that info is in my head and how reliable that info is.

But I do know that the crescent was used throughout the Mediterranean for various symbols and decorations well before Mehmed II.  Maybe that's why there are differing accounts.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 02:24:24 PM by William T »

Offline vansensei

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2016, 03:29:06 PM »
If they're going to do this, then I'll gladly draw a picture of their "prophet" Muhammad being smitten by God - the actual God in Three Persons.

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2016, 03:30:28 PM »
Uh oh.  We better go strap bombs to ourselves and blow them up because they insulted the cross.

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2016, 06:49:49 PM »
I read the moon and star is an ancient Turkic symbol, initially unrelated to Islam. Wikipedia dates it use as an Islamic symbol back to the Crusades, although on a different section it confirms the theory William T mentioned.
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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2016, 08:12:25 PM »
Does anybody know anything about the actual company putting these shoes out? I can't find anything on Google.

How do you know it's a Muslim owned company and that blasphemy is the intent and not, say, the kind of vampiric heavy metal type thing that one would find in the West?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 08:13:05 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline William T

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2016, 09:26:44 PM »
Does anybody know anything about the actual company putting these shoes out? I can't find anything on Google.

How do you know it's a Muslim owned company and that blasphemy is the intent and not, say, the kind of vampiric heavy metal type thing that one would find in the West?

The link doesn't seem very reliable to me, but.would Americans think to put a cross on the soles of otherwise normal footwear?  I get you can find Michael Jordan silhouettes on the bottom.of tennis.shoes, but.I don't.think it would be in a marketers mind to put religious, political, "deep" symbols on the bottom of a shoe while.having an otherwise inauspicious shoe.  If Americans would do that, it would be because it was part of some evangelical religious youth trend I bet, and would have probably nothing to do with teenage angst, unless again it was part of some youth subculture trend already.  That's My 2¢ speculation.

The link gets it wrong though, that's not an Islamic specific insult, but a regional thing.  Moses took his sandels off when he saw the burning bush, it's the same concept.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 09:32:12 PM by William T »

Offline William T

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2016, 09:34:07 PM »
The link that was.sourced seems to have more weight to it:
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/78553.htm

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2016, 10:23:19 PM »
Does anybody know anything about the actual company putting these shoes out? I can't find anything on Google.

How do you know it's a Muslim owned company and that blasphemy is the intent and not, say, the kind of vampiric heavy metal type thing that one would find in the West?

The link doesn't seem very reliable to me, but.would Americans think to put a cross on the soles of otherwise normal footwear?  I get you can find Michael Jordan silhouettes on the bottom.of tennis.shoes, but.I don't.think it would be in a marketers mind to put religious, political, "deep" symbols on the bottom of a shoe while.having an otherwise inauspicious shoe.  If Americans would do that, it would be because it was part of some evangelical religious youth trend I bet, and would have probably nothing to do with teenage angst, unless again it was part of some youth subculture trend already.  That's My 2¢ speculation.

The link gets it wrong though, that's not an Islamic specific insult, but a regional thing.  Moses took his sandels off when he saw the burning bush, it's the same concept.

Well, I don't know how it is in Turkey, but in the US people don't only think of the cross as a religious symbol. They often think of it as jewelry.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 10:23:31 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2016, 10:27:03 PM »
The link that was.sourced seems to have more weight to it:
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/78553.htm

It doesn't say anything about who actually makes the shoe, etc. It just mentions "photographs on the internet" and the fact that they're being sold in Greece (not even specifically if they're from Turkey!)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 10:41:42 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline William T

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2016, 11:23:16 PM »
Does anybody know anything about the actual company putting these shoes out? I can't find anything on Google.

How do you know it's a Muslim owned company and that blasphemy is the intent and not, say, the kind of vampiric heavy metal type thing that one would find in the West?

The link doesn't seem very reliable to me, but.would Americans think to put a cross on the soles of otherwise normal footwear?  I get you can find Michael Jordan silhouettes on the bottom.of tennis.shoes, but.I don't.think it would be in a marketers mind to put religious, political, "deep" symbols on the bottom of a shoe while.having an otherwise inauspicious shoe.  If Americans would do that, it would be because it was part of some evangelical religious youth trend I bet, and would have probably nothing to do with teenage angst, unless again it was part of some youth subculture trend already.  That's My 2¢ speculation.

The link gets it wrong though, that's not an Islamic specific insult, but a regional thing.  Moses took his sandels off when he saw the burning bush, it's the same concept.

Well, I don't know how it is in Turkey, but in the US people don't only think of the cross as a religious symbol. They often think of it as jewelry.

To clarify:

In the USA, if you otherwise had a plain generic looking shoe, would you be surprised if you saw on the sole of the shoe any design?  Would it be more surprising if the design was of a flag, cross, zodiac sign, or something like that.  I get that those symbols would be decorative, and I wouldn't be too surprised if I saw it... I just don't think that's normative.  I'm not saying this for metaphysical reasons (i think you're right it's not looked at in that context here) I just don't see marginal generic shoe companies adding effort to put designs on the bottom of tennis shoes, and it seems like designs with symbols would be even more edit I effort.  But that isn't really my main focus, I'm sure shoes like that exist.

My main point was, if the cross was meant to be offensive in a US market, I highly doubt it would be a plain looking shoe with a couple plain "non ironic" crosses in an inconspicuous location.  That would surprise me.

Also: Kalibak? 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 11:34:10 PM by William T »

Offline Cyprian700

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2016, 02:48:09 PM »
If Orthodox Christians are outraged at the idea of people insulting the cross by placing it on the bottom of a shoe which will be stepped on, why do they tolerate their own hierarchs walking on the cross when they know better?   

On January 21, 2005, Archbishop Demetrios, primate of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, walked on the cross which is on the floor of the Washington National Cathedral at an ecumenical prayer meeting for the newly re-elected President Bush.   Billy Graham gave a sermon while standing on the cross. 

Here are the crosses on the floor of the Cathedral:


Here Archbishop Demetrios is standing on the cross at the ecumenical prayer meeting for Obama in January 2013:


Here is Billy Graham standing on the cross as he gave his sermon:


The casket of Ronald Reagan on the cross as well.


33rd degree Mason President Gerald Ford's casket was set on the cross:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 02:49:01 PM by Cyprian700 »

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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2016, 02:57:45 PM »
Years ago (in the '90s, if I remember correctly), there was a bit of a kerfuffle in Greece about the soles of Timberland shoes and boots being blasphemous.



Naturally, it blew over shortly afterwards.
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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2016, 03:18:09 PM »
It's built to be mocked and ridiculed, that's a custom as old as Christ, if not older with some prophecies before His Incarnation alluding to that fact.  Get used to it, it's your job to.

Of course you are right, but hating men because of dust is more important. After all the cross shoeprint is analagous to beating a human being and must be taken as such. No ethnic offense may be forgiven.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 03:19:27 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Re: Muslim Turks Insult the Cross!
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2016, 08:52:04 PM »
Does anybody know anything about the actual company putting these shoes out? I can't find anything on Google.

How do you know it's a Muslim owned company and that blasphemy is the intent and not, say, the kind of vampiric heavy metal type thing that one would find in the West?

The link doesn't seem very reliable to me, but.would Americans think to put a cross on the soles of otherwise normal footwear?  I get you can find Michael Jordan silhouettes on the bottom.of tennis.shoes, but.I don't.think it would be in a marketers mind to put religious, political, "deep" symbols on the bottom of a shoe while.having an otherwise inauspicious shoe.  If Americans would do that, it would be because it was part of some evangelical religious youth trend I bet, and would have probably nothing to do with teenage angst, unless again it was part of some youth subculture trend already.  That's My 2¢ speculation.

The link gets it wrong though, that's not an Islamic specific insult, but a regional thing.  Moses took his sandels off when he saw the burning bush, it's the same concept.

Well, I don't know how it is in Turkey, but in the US people don't only think of the cross as a religious symbol. They often think of it as jewelry.

To clarify:

In the USA, if you otherwise had a plain generic looking shoe, would you be surprised if you saw on the sole of the shoe any design?  Would it be more surprising if the design was of a flag, cross, zodiac sign, or something like that.  I get that those symbols would be decorative, and I wouldn't be too surprised if I saw it... I just don't think that's normative.  I'm not saying this for metaphysical reasons (i think you're right it's not looked at in that context here) I just don't see marginal generic shoe companies adding effort to put designs on the bottom of tennis shoes, and it seems like designs with symbols would be even more edit I effort.  But that isn't really my main focus, I'm sure shoes like that exist.

My main point was, if the cross was meant to be offensive in a US market, I highly doubt it would be a plain looking shoe with a couple plain "non ironic" crosses in an inconspicuous location.  That would surprise me.

Also: Kalibak?

Well, I think the point is what it makes your footprints look like. I agree that the outside of the shoe does look plain, but we haven't seen a really good look at it.

Ad why not? I like Kalibak lol. He's like hairy monkey-elf Thor!
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.