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Author Topic: "Annulments" (RCism) vs Divorce (Orthodoxy)  (Read 5853 times) Average Rating: 0
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mike
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« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2011, 01:32:31 PM »

Isa, where are you quoting Wyatt from?  It's certainly not this thread.
From a thread on the private fora.  It is my understanding that you cannot link to the private fora. (though I don't know of a rule against a private fora thread linking to a public fora thread, as I have done in the thread in question to this thread, and have seen numerous examples of the same).  The original thread has/had gotten rather explicite (thanks for moving it, btw), but the quoted content has none of that.  The quoted content also has veered a bit off from the OP in the original thread, and so I wanted to move it to a more germaine thread, without starting a new one (least of all a new private thread, as this has none of the material which landed the original thread in the privqate fora).  Have I misunderstood a rule?

Actually it's contrarywise. You can't quote from the Private Fora but you can link to them. In such a situation posters who don't have an access there won't be able to read posts from there (they can't visit the Private Fora even provided with direct links) and that's the goal.

Thread unlocked, enjoy!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 01:32:58 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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ialmisry
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« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2011, 01:53:48 PM »

Quote from: Wyatt
Quote from: ialmisry
Quote from: Wyatt
The Eastern Orthodox Church seems to be confused about the fact that a marriage cannot be put asunder by anything except death as Christ said, which is why the only way that a marriage can end is if it is found that it wasn't a marriage at all.
No, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church has no appetite for Corban as the Vatican does.  Adultery puts asunder a marriage (which is why, for instance, many languages call it "marriage-breaking," as there is nothing adult about it at all.  Usually, it is quite childish. And the Church has the power of the keys, as Christ said, to deal with that.
Did Christ say no man can put asunder marriage or didn't He?
He didn't.  Another mistranslation of your Vulgate. He commands "Let no man seperate," like He commanded "thou shalt commit adultery."   Obviously, men (and women) can, and do, do it.  He says "don't:for your own good."
asunder adv or adj : into parts <torn asunder>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/asunder?show=0&t=1311714623

So once again, your attempt to discredit anything Latin as well as Church Fathers who held views contrary to your own has FAILED. To put asunder and to separate mean the exact same thing.
They are, but as your Vulgate makes it a statement, Christ said it as a command:
ὥστε οὐκέτι εἰσὶ δύο, ἀλλὰ σὰρξ μία. ὃ οὖν ὁ Θεὸς συνέζευξεν, ἄνθρωπος μὴ χωριζέτω Mt. 19:6
ὃ οὖν ὁ Θεὸς συνέζευξεν, ἄνθρωπος μὴ χωριζέτω·Mk. 10:9

ܡܕܝܢ ܠܐ ܗܘܘ ܬܪܝܢ ܐܠܐ ܚܕ ܦܓܪ ܡܕܡ ܗܟܝܠ ܕܐܠܗܐ ܙܘܓ ܒܪܢܫܐ ܠܐ ܢܦܪܫ
ܡܕܡ ܕܐܠܗܐ ܗܟܝܠ ܙܘܓ ܒܪܢܫܐ ܠܐ ܢܦܪܫ

Original Word: χωρίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chórizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kho-rid'-zo)
Short Definition: I separate, depart
Definition: (a) I separate, put apart, (b) mid. or pass: I separate myself, depart, withdraw.
5563 xōrízō (from 5561 /xṓra, "open, vacated space") – properly, separate, divide ("put asunder"), i.e. depart, vacate; create "space" (which can be very undesirable or unjustified).

5563 /xōrízō ("vacate"), as in the papyri, refers to divorcing a marriage partner who vacates the relationship in soul or body (cf. Moulton-Milligan, 696).
http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/5563.htm

χωριζέτω:present active imperative, 3rd person singular.

vs. itaque iam non sunt duo sed una caro quod ergo Deus coniunxit homo non separet.
quod ergo Deus iunxit homo non separet.

Quote from: Wyatt
To claim that anything can put asunder marriage when the explicit words of Christ say otherwise is ridiculous.
What is ludicrous is confusing St. Jerome's words for Christ's.  What is even more absurd is putting Corban in Christ's mouth.
I don't know what Corban is,

ask your magisterium.  They are mass producers.

but I know that Christ detested divorce.

He does detest divorce, but annullments makes Him want to vomit.

The Early Fathers of the Church also didn't approve of birth control either, and no one has yet definitively shown me a quote indicating otherwise from any Church Father.
You have Church Fathers approving the "marriage tribunals"?

St. John Chrysostom spoke out for the marriage of the sterile.  At the time, laws either allowed or even mandated (e.g. ancient Sparta) that a fertile partner divorce a barren one, in order to produce children.  In Ancient Sparta, sterile husbands were required to let their wives be impregnated by others able to do the job:the Spartans didn't approve of birth control.
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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ialmisry
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« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2011, 01:54:50 PM »

Isa, where are you quoting Wyatt from?  It's certainly not this thread.
From a thread on the private fora.  It is my understanding that you cannot link to the private fora. (though I don't know of a rule against a private fora thread linking to a public fora thread, as I have done in the thread in question to this thread, and have seen numerous examples of the same).  The original thread has/had gotten rather explicite (thanks for moving it, btw), but the quoted content has none of that.  The quoted content also has veered a bit off from the OP in the original thread, and so I wanted to move it to a more germaine thread, without starting a new one (least of all a new private thread, as this has none of the material which landed the original thread in the privqate fora).  Have I misunderstood a rule?

Actually it's contrarywise. You can't quote from the Private Fora but you can link to them. In such a situation posters who don't have an access there won't be able to read posts from there (they can't visit the Private Fora even provided with direct links) and that's the goal.

Thread unlocked, enjoy!
Ah, I'll keep that in mind. Sorry for the mix up.

btw, the quote is somewhere on this thread.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,38152.msg608798.html#msg608798
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 02:04:58 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Tags: ialmisry's b.s. 
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