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Author Topic: 08-15-2005 words of prophecyr  (Read 2183 times) Average Rating: 0
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year2027
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« on: August 15, 2005, 12:34:01 AM »

God first and last

  Here I sat looking to the heart of my spirit to learn things that I could not know with my little brain working in high speed. For within the spirit of the Christ in me or you is all truth past, present, and future.

  Most people want to know what going to happen the next year or how they can get worldly rich. But all I want to know is what will help others see more of the truths of spiritual things.

  What they need to help them get seed planted in them or what they need to help the seed within them grow. My love goes out to help in a spiritual way.

  The first thing all people need to know is that God loves them deeply. The second thing they need to know is Jesus the Christ loves them. The third thing they need to know is that I and many others with the seed of Christ in us love them.

   But there are other things that will help like God takes care of there every need like a mother takes care of her unborn child. We just need to give God room to work.

  So I tell you pray to God, talk to God, sing to God, or even yell to God because he is there listen to you and ready able to help you .

  But recall a child learning to walk if you pick the child up never letting the child fall the child will never learn to walk. There are times God lets us fall so we will get stronger or learn a lesson he is teaching us.

  What more can I say it’s a day by day growing until we can fly on our own. We walk here on earth but we fly in the heavens were our spirits go to reach God to bring true knowledge to help us get ready to change into immortality.

  The stage he will be like God but not as great as God. Yes we will be in the spiritual form. How great that day will be until that day peace and grace my friends.

With love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

words of prophecy wrote by Roy William Perry III

PS I have not the gift ministry of a Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, or Teacher

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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2005, 03:30:49 AM »

Dear Roy,

Quote
PS I have not the gift ministry of a Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, or Teacher

That much is clear.

Do you realize that you do not[/b] have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in you unless you've been baptized and chrismated? Do you realize that in so far as you stray from the divinely revealed Truth in the Church you have strayed away from Christ our God? Master Origen warns us that the measure of our falling away from Christ is the measure we become a son of the devil. We then bear two images that creates confusion in us, and will become our hell. The one Image is the original image of God which cannot be erraced but becomes darkened by the second image. This second image is the image of the fallen one, for in so far as we turn away from Christ we lose participation in the life of Christ, and we gain participation in the life and works of the devil.

You are trodding down a perilous path here Roy. Unless you stop participating in the life and works of the devil, and turn to Christ our God for your salvation, you are creating your own hell. You are creating and sustaining the image of the evil one in yourself, whereby you are unable to experience God as the love He is, but you will experience the fire of His love as His wrath and condemnation. In this sense, the Protestant phrase turn or burn is quite literally true.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” John 3

So unless you come to the Light as it has been clearly pointed out to you several times, it will be clear who your father in spiritual things is and of what kind your works and words are. Indeed you do not have the ministry of Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, or Teacher, quite the contrary in fact.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6

You may object that this sounds harsh, I do not intend to be harsh, however. I intend to be an assistent to the Doctor of our Souls, Jesus Christ, pointing you to His medicine of Eternal Life. Sadly, you appear to be far away from the truth and speaking in a loud clear voice is necessary to cover the distance. Do not mistake this, my voice, as harsh, for it only speaks out of love for you. I would not bother to care to write all this if I was not motivated by love.

Become Orthodox, and enter upon the path to your salvation, or as Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (which is the same thing) adding a warning to it for those who would refuse "but he who does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16, 16)."

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For scripture says, God is seated where He is known  (Pr 11 :16) ; and thus the pure nous is said to be a throne of God.

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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2005, 08:57:33 AM »

God is Truth, and the Church is the Body of Christ, who is Truth, so the Church has the Truth--not your truth, or my truth, but The Truth, which is held inviolate, undivided, and complete. Those in the Church, the Body of Christ, believe this Truth, and the Truth cannot be divided. So the belief is not divided, but it is One. And if you do not believe the Truth, the true beliefs about the Trinitarian God and experience communion with Him in His Body, you are without the Truth, and without the Church.

The Church is not an invisible mass of believers who all believe different things that contradict each other and divide Truth. It is the physical and spiritually enabled Church on earth that ministers to men both physically and spiritually. This Church, the one who has preserved the Truth about God and is the very Church established and led by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, is the Orthodox Church. It can be seen passing down the Truth, person to person, physically, never changing the Truth into lies, forgetting the Truth, or allowing for the Truth to be lost by teaching anything but the Truth. This is the Orthodox Church.

O Lord, open the eyes, heart, and mind of Thy servant that he may be enlightened with the fulness of Thy glory and the knowledge of Thy truth.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2005, 08:50:10 AM »

Guys:

Roy can't leave this website. I think that he thinks he is doing us a great service by expounding his beliefs and interpretations in the hope that some of us will "see the light" and convert to his way of thinking. My main concern is that weaker or newer members to the faith and to this site, especially those coming from evangelical backgrounds where anything goes, will get sucked into his babble. In another thread he quotes the Essene Gospel Grin . Go figure. Anyway, on the flip side, if Roy does stop posting on this site I'll miss all of the cogent rebuffs given by my other Orthodox brothers and sisters. Yet, appeals to him seem worthless. It's like talking to an alcoholic who does not seem to think that he has a drinking problem.
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2005, 10:07:49 PM »



...words of prophecy wrote by Roy William Perry III....




ÂÂ  DUDE !!!!! I GET IT NOW!!!! It`s William " THE FRIDGE " Perry from the 1986( Super Bowl Champs) Chicago Bears!!! No wonder I can`t make sense of what your saying , what with all those hits you took to your head during your football career. Man, I hope you are watching your weight these days!!We still love you you up here in the Windy City...Call me if you`re ever in town...you always have a place to stay.
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2005, 10:57:44 PM »

God first and last

Beoved All

God loves you all

Let look at the bible

Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I have confess Jesus Christ as Lord in my life and I belive God raised him from the dead so I am saved

Nothing wrote about trinity here

but lets see

Dan 3:25 (KJV)
Mat 4:3 (KJV)
Mat 4:6 (KJV)
Mat 8:29 (KJV)
Mat 14:33 (KJV)
Mat 26:63 (KJV)
Mat 27:40 (KJV)
Mat 27:43 (KJV)
Mat 27:54 (KJV)
Mark 1:1 (KJV)
Mark 3:11 (KJV)
Mark 15:39 (KJV)
Luke 1:35 (KJV)
Luke 3:38 (KJV)
Luke 4:3 (KJV)
Luke 4:9 (KJV)
Luke 4:41 (KJV)
Luke 8:28 (KJV)
Luke 22:70 (KJV)
John 1:34 (KJV)
John 1:49 (KJV)
John 3:18 (KJV)
John 5:25 (KJV)
John 9:35 (KJV)
John 10:36 (KJV)
John 11:4 (KJV)
John 11:27 (KJV)
John 19:7 (KJV)
John 20:31 (KJV)
Acts 8:37 (KJV)
Acts 9:20 (KJV)
Rom 1:4 (KJV)
2 Cor 1:19 (KJV)
Gal 2:20 (KJV)
Eph 4:13 (KJV)
Heb 4:14 (KJV)
Heb 6:6 (KJV)
Heb 7:3 (KJV)
Heb 10:29 (KJV)
1 John 3:8 (KJV)
1 John 4:15 (KJV)
1 John 5:5 (KJV)
1 John 5:10 (KJV)
1 John 5:12 (KJV)
1 John 5:13 (KJV)
1 John 5:20 (KJV)
Rev 2:18 (KJV)
 
Yes all this verses claim Jesus Christ is the son of God

Matt 1:16  And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Jesus was born in the flesh who is called Christ

Matt 1:18  Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Yes Jesus Christ was found with the child of God

John 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jesus Christ talks has his Father God being one being and he another

We know that Jesus Christ always did the will of the Father

The bibles many times God is the Father of Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ either talk to his self or God like the bible reads

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Yes the Word of God is God just like the words I speak are my words

It does not matter who speaks God's word they are still God's Words

Just like if you quote me if still my words

John 10:30  I and my Father are one.

one what    there are of one famiily of the same blood line for one thing

Rom 12:5  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

So either we are God too or we are of one family

1 John 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Yes the Father God the Creator, the Word that God spoke whether by him or his son is still God's Word and the Holy Spirit the Giver are one

1 John 5:8  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

There are three that agree as one on earth The spirit which is the gift of Christ in us, the water which is the Word of God spoken or wrote unto the world ( God's Word saved for us) and the blood or blood line of Jesus Christ by him given up his life and risen again for us

there more i read everything wrote about trinity

But it gets down to either Jesus Christ is the son and not God making the bible not wrong in many vereses

But it gets down to either God is the Father of Jesus Christ and not the son making the bible not wrong in many vereses

You see you make God a lier and he can not lie

This is how I believe but you can believe as you see best

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy




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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2005, 11:18:59 PM »

Youre hung up on the literal meaning of 'son'. Who was Christ's father? Did he have a human father? If not, what's the point of God impregnating a woman only to have a human baby? You can get humans with a lot less effort.
But if God entered the woman and became joined to humanity by being both God and man without division or confusion, then we have salvation, for we are no longer separate from God.

Before Christ, no one called God "Father" (really Abba, daddy). It was blasphemous to call God your Father. It reveals an ultimate reality; the way to wrap our puny minds around the mystery of the Trinity.

"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father" they are equal. How can a man be equal with God unless He is God as well?
"but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe[a] that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

How can Christ say He is in God unless He is God? I can say that God is within me, but as I am a mere human, I can never say I am within God.

When Christ says "I am" in answer to the question 'are you the Christ?" He is saying the name for God, I AM WHO IS. Christ is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is God. They are one Godhead, three Persons, in an eternal bond of Love, for God is Love, and how can one love if one has nothing to love?
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2005, 11:27:16 PM »

True, the word "trinity" is not found in the Bible.  On the other hand, though, Roy, show me where in the Bible it says that the Bible contains every single truth about God.  I'll save you a little time if you like; you can't.  In fact, St. Paul even commends a local church in one of his epistles for not only holding to what's been written down, but to the traditions that have not been written down.  While the Scriptures are the foundation and largest part of our teachings and doctrine, they are not the sum total of it.  To say that they are, and that truth has not been revealed to us aside from them, is to elevate the Bible into an idol, to engage in Bibliolotary.  We worship God, the Trinity one and undivided, and not the Bible.  As a result, while revering the Scriptures, we also hold the Tradition of the Church in high esteem.
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2005, 04:37:06 AM »

Well done, Veniamin!
I do not recall anywhere reading words to the effect that our Lord directed that everything the apostles remembered were to written down in an final manual called a 'bible' and that that be distributed and argued over by anyone's individual interpretation. He created His Church - preserved, protected, and defended in purity by Holy Tradition.
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2005, 05:19:39 AM »

Venjamin,

Whilst I as an Orthodox Christian obviously concur with what you say with regards to Holy Tradition, the only thing we achieve in bringing this up to feeble minded people like Roy who deny fundamental doctrines such as the divinity of Christ and the Blessed Trinity, is that we provide them with a chance to cop out, as he has previously done so on many occasions. As I mentioned elsewhere, many of our great fathers, including St Athanasius, St Basil, St Iraneous etc. attested to the material sufficiency of the Scriptures in proving fundamental matters of the faith. St Iraneous for instance states:

We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. . . . When, however, they [the heretics] are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition. For [they allege] that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents. (Against Heresies, 3:1, 2).

Sola scripturists simply have no excuse in rejecting such fundamental doctrines as the divinity of Christ.

Peace.
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2005, 05:23:49 AM »

Dear Roy,

Quote
Let look at the bible

Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I have confess Jesus Christ as Lord in my life and I belive God raised him from the dead so I am saved

Nothing wrote about trinity here

Untrue Roy.

As was said before, the faith in Christ and the confession of Him are necessarily and organically linked to baptism.  Your choice to ignore this prevents you from being saved.

Baptism is the beginning of Christian Life, it is the being born-again that Evangelicalism speaks about so much but completely fails to understand. Being born-again does not take place at believing and confessing apart from baptism. It is precisely in baptism that these effect the being born-again.

This receiving of divine life into oneself can only and exclusively[/i] take place in connection and relation to the Most Holy Trinity:

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore[c] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matt. 28

The Unity of the Trinity, His one-God-ness, is expressed by gathering Father Son and Spirit together under one Name. Iow {i]one Name[/i] is St. Matthews way of saying consubstantial or the one God. Yet naming the One God as father, Son and Holy Spirit, St. Matthew also gives expression to the three-ness of God. For God is not Monad nor Triad; God is Tri-Unity or Uni-Trinity.

Further, baptism, is to take place in this Threepersoned God's Name, no other way is specified, since baptism in any other god or gods name or names would be idolatry and a demonic fraud to the real. The only salvation to be found is in Jesus Christ, by having faith in Him, confessing Him, in baptism. Thats where salvation begins. Salvation in and by Jesus Christ is a union with the Holy Trinity in baptism.

Quote
Matt 1:18  Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Yes Jesus Christ was found with the child of God

No Roy.

Mary was found with Child, and the Child was Jesus Christ, the God-man, the One Incarnate Person of God the Word. One of the Trinity become man. Creator become creature.

Quote
John 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jesus Christ talks has his Father God being one being and he another

No Roy.

Jesus speaks of His Father as distinct from Him as Person but together He and the Father are one Being; the Tri-Unity.

Quote
We know that Jesus Christ always did the will of the Father

The bibles many times God is the Father of Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ either talk to his self or God like the bible reads

Nonsense Roy.

The Personal distinctions in the Trinity account for the relationship that is displayed in the examples you bring forward. The Son and the Spirit relate to the Father since He (the Father) is their Principle (or Arche). This relationship can be characterized as divine prayer or intra-trinitarian communication. This divine prayer or intra-trinitarian communication is opened up to us creatures by the Incarnation of the Word and the Descent of the Holy Spirit (Pentecost). The Son and the Spirit teach us to pray by opening up to us this intra-trinitarian communication (or divine prayer). Union with Christ through baptism makes available the fruits of the Incarnation. That is we are restored to our proper and undefiled human nature (forgiveness and healing of sins), and we are united to God, become partakers of the Divine Nature (1 Peter,1, 4). However, these fruits will remain ineffective (despite their real existence) without the making effective of the Holy Spirit. This is what Pentecost does for us, it effects the grace of the Incarnation so that it actually transforms our lives from sinful ones into divinely graced ones. And this is only part of what the Incarnation and Pentecost mean for us, these Mysteries run deeper and are much more significant than any words could ever possibly convey.

Bottomline is, that the prayerlife of Jesus Christ is Divine-human and as such it opens up the way for us to be adopted sons of the Father in, and because of, the Only-Begotten-Son. That is; in the Onlybegotten Son, do we become (adopted) son. By participating in Christ, becoming one with Him in baptism, we come to participate in His sonship. But we do not become sons by nature as He is, we become sons by grace. The relationship that the Son has wit the Father becomes ours, in so far as we are united to the Son. However, the possibility of becoming sons of God, becomes fact only by the working of the Holy Spirit. Whatever is given in the Son, must be effected by the Holy Spirit.

You will notice that in John ch. 14 Jesus says that no-one comes to the Father but through Him (vs. 6), immediately after explaining His Own centrality to be united to the Father, He points us to the Holy Spirit. It is He, the Holy Spirit, who lives with and in us. It is the Spirit who will teach and remind, because it is He, the Spirit, who is another Comforter (vs. 15). The first Comforter being Jesus Christ Himself. The Holy Spirit fulfills the works of the Son in us (vs. 18) we will not be orphaned by Jesus' Passion-Resurrection-Ascension. It is the presence of the Holy Spirit that makes us realize that the Son is one with the Father (in the Father) and that He, the Son, is in us and we in Him. The realization of our adopted sonship depends upon the work of the Other Comforter, the Holy Spirit.

In ch. 16, vs. 1-11 we see that the Holy Spirit not only fulfills, but even prepares our union with Christ (as he prepared room in the womb of St. Mary for the Son to become incarnate). The Spirit contineously whispers to our conscience and creates possibiloities for us to convert so that we may come to the Savior Christ. And in vs 14 we see that the Spirit also completes, fulfills the work of Christ. It is the Son and the Spirit who by their coming to us (being sent thereto by the Father) in the Incarnation and the Pentecost, unite us to the Father. Make us His adopted sons. That is, if we go the way Jesus told us to go. A way, which you, continue to reject.

Quote
John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Yes the Word of God is God just like the words I speak are my words

It does not matter who speaks God's word they are still God's Words

Just like if you quote me if still my words

You miss the point here Roy. The Word of God is not merely a spoken word. The word used there is Logos in Greek. It is translated as Word, but it means a lot more than word in a mere human sense (such as you have wrongfully understood it). Logos is a being Logos is the pre-existent Son of the Father, of one Nature with the Father and therefore God. This is what John 1, 1-3 are talking about. The Logos or Word is the Word of the Father because in the Son the Father reveals Himself. Which is why in the Greek the phrase suggests a movement or turning towards God by the Word. The Word is directed to the Father as His revelation. The prologue of the Gospel of St. John is deeply trinitarian.

Quote
John 10:30  I and my Father are one.

one what   ÃƒÆ’‚ there are of one famiily of the same blood line for one thing

Indeed. Which means that as the Father is God, so is the Son and so is the Holy Spirit.

Quote
Rom 12:5  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

So either we are God too or we are of one family

Being a member of the Body of Christ implies that you are baptized into Christ. And by our union with Christ we become family to the Father we become His adopted children.

Quote
1 John 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Yes the Father God the Creator, the Word that God spoke whether by him or his son is still God's Word and the Holy Spirit the Giver are one

So why do you deny it by dividing the Trinity?

Quote
1 John 5:8  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

There are three that agree as one on earth The spirit which is the gift of Christ in us, the water which is the Word of God spoken or wrote unto the world ( God's Word saved for us) and the blood or blood line of Jesus Christ by him given up his life and risen again for us

there more i read everything wrote about trinity

Indeed, the Trinity is ever-present rhoughout the Bible. Its pages are full of trinitarian meaning, so again, why do you deny it? Why do you reject the teaching of the Scriptures?

Quote
But it gets down to either Jesus Christ is the son and not God making the bible not wrong in many vereses

But it gets down to either God is the Father of Jesus Christ and not the son making the bible not wrong in many vereses

You see you make God a lier and he can not lie

No Roy.

You[/b] make God a liar by denying the Trinity as we have shown Him to you from the Scriptures and Tradition. You have found verses of Scripture in clear and absolute contradiction with your imaginations and fantasies verses that tell you of the Trinity in both His aspects, unity and trinity, oneness and threenes; in One God.

Quote
This is how I believe but you can believe as you see best

And precisely this is the basic problem. It is why you and us keep butting heads. We do not belief as we see best. We believe as we are guided by the Scriptures, the Church, and Holy Tradition. We are not ourselves the absolute authority in our faith, God is. and He speaks to us through the Scriptures, Traditions, Icons, and many other means you can only find in the Church which is the Body of Christ.

It boils down to this, we as Christians, approach these things very differently than you do, as a non-Christian.

S_N_B
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2005, 05:41:36 AM »

Roy,

Quote
Let’s look at the bible

Roy, do not think you can shove Scripture verses in our face as if they self-evidently prove your corrupted interpretation of them. Therefore, I respond to your above invitation with one of my own:

“Let’s look at how to interpret these verses correctly in context”

Quote
Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I have confess Jesus Christ as Lord in my life and I belive God raised him from the dead so I am saved

WRONG Roy. You have not confessed Christ as your LORD, because to confess Christ as your LORD is to essentially recognize Him as your GOD. The Greek word used here for LORD is Kurioß, and it is the very word employed in the Greek Septuagint (LXX) version of the Old Testament to denote YHWH The One true God. To further stress that this is the connotation which St Paul intends, let’s have a look at some other Pauline verses in order to examine what sense Christ is Lord over all, and hence the context in which one is to confess Christ as Lord. We shall look at:

a)   A verse which directly relates to Romans 10:9 (i.e. Thematic context)
b)   A verse from the book of Romans (immediate context)
c)   A few (of many) other verses from the other Pauline Epistles (outer context), which although are not the best examples of evidencing the divinity of Christ our Lord and God, are examples I have so far brought up in dialogue with you and which you have yet to face.

a) Thematic context:

Phillipians 2:9-11 “For this reason God also highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow-- of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth—11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Here, St Paul is also speaking about confessing Christ as Lord, however unlike Romans 10:9, this is a universal confession that will inevitably be made by every human being upon the realisation that Christ is their Lord and God, as opposed to a statement of faith with salvific significance. We see that directly before St Paul’s prophecy that all shall confess Christ as Lord, that He declares Christ’s name to be the name that is above every name. This proves beyond reasonable doubt that the invocation and confession of Christ as our Lord, is to invoke and confess Christ as the very YHWH of the Old Testament. World renowned New Testament Scholar Richard Bauckham makes this point very clear on page 34 of his book God Crucified: “…the exalted Jesus is given the divine name, the tetragrammaton (YHWH), the name which names the unique identity of the One God, the name which is exclusive to the One God…’the name that is above every name’, which according to Philippians 2:9 was bestowed on Jesus when the Father exalted him to the highest position. Connected with this naming of the exalted Jesus by the divine name is the early Christian use of the phrase ‘to call on the name of the Lord’ (Acts 2:17-212, 38; 9:14; 22:16….[etc]) as a reference to Christian confession and baptism. The Old Testament phrase (Note especially Ps. 80:18; Is. 12:4…â€ÂÂÂ
b) Immediate Context:

The verse I will bring forth for you now Roy, is so ‘immediate’ that not only is it in the same book of Romans, but it is in fact in the very same Chapter 9. Verse 5 reads:

“5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.”

New Testament professor Murray Harris, discusses this verse in-depth in Chapter 6 of his book Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of ‘Theos’ in Reference to Jesus. This discussion includes a very detailed analysis of linguistics and a consideration of all the grammatical possibilities. His conclusion, as he states on page 172 of his book is: ÂÂ "It is therefore highly probable that the term theos is applied to ho Christos in Romans 9:5."

c) Outer Context - verses which have already been brought forth and explained, and which you are as of yet unable to respond to:

Christ is the Temple of God — The divine presence and glory of God dwelt amongst His people, the very day that Christ took flesh and dwelt amongst us; see here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=6787.msg88953#msg88953

St Paul acknowledges that Christ is the source of divine revelation; see here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=6857.msg90415#msg90415

St Paul calls Christ our God and our Saviour; see here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=6857.msg90415#msg90415

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Yes all this verses claim Jesus Christ is the son of God

What does it mean to be The Son of God Roy? This is a divine appellation, and you don’t even realize it. Christ is The Son of God, because He is The Son by nature. This is His very defense to the Jews who accused Him of blasphemy in John 10:33. They accuse Him of making Himself a God, and He answers them by saying that if those who are called gods by virtue of their office, then how is it that they accuse Christ of making Himself God when it is His very divine right by virtue of His being in the very form of God (see Philippians 2:5-8) and hence the Son of God by nature.

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John 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jesus Christ talks has his Father God being one being and he another

Beings do not interact and communicate Roy, PERSONS do. I don’t want to get too metaphysical on you, since I doubt you’re capable of grasping such concepts — however, believe me when I say to you, that your conclusions on Christ drawn from this observation are based on false logic and weak child-like argumentation. The only logical consequence to the fact The Son communicates with the Father is that they are distinct persons, and not that they are different beings.

Ironically however, the very verse you erroneously bring up to deny the divinity of Christ, in fact clearly PROVES IT. Read it again Roy; what does Christ say with respect to His relationship with the Father, to those who obey and love Him? “WE will come unto Him” — Did you get that Roy? Christ and the Father BOTH, TOGETHER, indwell believers. This is a divine prerogative Roy, and it requires both Christ and the Father to be equally capable of being anywhere and everywhere at the same time i.e. OMNIPRESENT. Furthermore, the verse in question portrays Christ as the One who is to be the object of our Love and Obedience. I know who the object of my love and obedience is Roy, the Lord my God — in contrast to yours, a mere man.

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John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Yes the Word of God is God just like the words I speak are my words

WOW, brilliant Roy. And who is The Word? See John 1:14-18.

So let me get this straight…you don’t have to be a genius to work this out.

The Word is God (you admit). The Word is Christ. Therefore Christ is God! Amazing, isn’t it Roy?

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John 10:30  I and my Father are one.

one what   ÃƒÆ’‚ there are of one famiily of the same blood line for one thing

HUH?! The same bloodline? Wow, your doctrine is more satanic than I initially thought.

Roy, you mentioned the term ‘being’ before, and due to a non-understanding of the concept of being and personhood, you falsely employed this term to justify your demonic interpretation of a verse discussed above. If any verse pertains to the relationship between Father and Son in terms of being — this is the one Roy, and the context makes this very clea; please read the preceding verses Roy:

“The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life (1), and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand (2). My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand (3). "I and the Father are one." (4) (John 10:24-30)

(1) Christ claims the power to give eternal life.

(2)   Christ claims the power to preserve His own sheep so that no one can snatch them out of his hand, thus equating His power to that of the Father, who also preserves the sheep so that no one is able to snatch them out of His hand in (3).

(4)   Christ summarises His divine claims into a succinct statement, declaring oneness with the Father. One in what? It can only be one in power, intent, will, and hence essence, for He makes this claim after claiming the very attributes of God:

What does God in the Old Testament have to say about the very attributes Christ just claimed for Himself?

"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me (1). I put to death and bring to life (2), I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver them out of my hand (3)." Deuteronomy 32:39

(1) God declares His exclusiveness. He then follows His declaration of being the exclusive God by mentioning some of those things which define His exclusiveness: (2) The ability to give life (3) The ability to preserve so none is able to snatch out of His hands.

Therefore we have further explicit confirmation that Christ was claiming the very exclusive attributes of God Himself, and hence the only logical and contextual explanation of His claim to oneness with the Father in John 10:30.

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1 John 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Yes the Father God the Creator, the Word that God spoke whether by him or his son is still God's Word and the Holy Spirit the Giver are one

God’s Word is The Son. Please read John 1:1-14; since we have started discussing this in relation to another verse above, I shall await you to deal with that.

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But it gets down to either Jesus Christ is the son and not God making the bible not wrong in many verses

It gets down to Jesus is The Son according to His person and God according to His essence and being, affirming the Biblical testimony.

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You see you make God a lier and he can not lie

No he cannot lie, therefore take heed to, and confess in your heart all the verses provided above and interpreted and explained correctly by the Spirit of God which dwells in me as a member of The One True Church — that The Word, who is The Son, who is Christ Jesus, is your Lord and God, the One to whom all Glory, Honour, and worship is due, forever - else may you be eternally cursed.

Peace.
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"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2005, 08:12:05 AM »

EA:

I am impressed. I enjoy reading your expositions; however, at the risk of insulting you, I don't think Roy cares. I, and I assume others, have benefited. But, we have already believed in Jesus as Lord and God one of the three persons of the Blessed Trinity. So in the end your expositions have benefited many but not your intended audience. Your expositions will also serve to instruct the new and weak willed who think that Roy is a "prophet."
Sadly to say I believe that in today's world many don't want to hear the truth only that God is Love and it'll all be OK.
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2005, 04:15:10 AM »

I must congratulate all those that gave excellent answers .....on the Trinity

Please take a look at this web site forums.......
http://www.belowtopsecret.com/viewthread.php?tid=161833

I just cannot understand people that do not SEE WHAT SCRIPTURE says.....

I was hoping that I could quote a few words from here.
thanks.
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2005, 01:33:24 PM »

Wow, just as I was challenged for believing in the trinity even though it was 'never mentioned in the bible', this thread comes along.  Thanks guys Smiley
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Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!


« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2005, 01:38:33 PM »

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Wow, just as I was challenged for believing in the trinity even though it was 'never mentioned in the bible', this thread comes along. Thanks guys Smiley

It always pays off to be involved in communities and developing your relationships with others.

Which is one of the stronger arguments why we should be joining each other in church instead of relying on individual worship or scriptural interpretation, btw...
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2005, 10:07:52 PM »

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I don't mean to accuse anybody of anything unseemly, but I just feel that people who respond to this ought to be aware of a few things.

Year2027 has been banned from numerous discussion forums for a number of reasons.  He engages in circular and closed-ended discussions, shows excessive inappropriate affection to the other members of forums, which has made many people (especially females) feel targeted and uncomfortable, and has refused to cease this sort of behaviour when requested to do so.  He ignores the requests of the forum moderators, which has led to a number of his threads to be closed.  He antagonises those who respond to him by covertly insulting them and then showing great affection for them in the same post.

I what I am about to say, I am getting the information from Year2027 himself.  He has openly shared the information that he has been diagnosed as being in need of treatment for mental illness, but does not consider himself to be in need of treatment and so does not take the medication prescribed to him.  He goes from forum to forum, posting exactly the same thing on a number of forums, as can be seen here.

I do not say any of this out of malice, and I genuinely believe that Year2027 intends no malice nor annoyance with his posts, but as one who has seen others fall into the trap, fell that I ought to at least allow others to make the informed decision about whether or not to engage in this sort of discussion, as I feel that it is damaging them and to him.

He requires our prayers and encouragement to follow the advice of the doctors in whose care he once put his trust, and not to encourage his current self-destructive behaviour.

Please pray.

Just thought you all should know this.  Roy turns up on Catholic and Evangelical Christian web sites as well, where the former just love him.
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