Author Topic: Priest mistaken for KKK member  (Read 9358 times)

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Offline Aram

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2016, 11:48:42 AM »
One thing that hasn't been brought up in this discussion, well, just about anywhere: Indiana is a hotbed for the Klan, and has been for about a century. The revival of the so-called "Second Klan" beginning in 1915 was particularly strong in Indiana, and by the 20s it had one of the largest and well-organized Klans in the country. The Klan still has a significant presence when you get outside of the few major cities in the state, like Bloomington.

So put yourself in the mind of a student living in Indiana, maybe even someone who also grew up in the state, who sees someone in a white robe on their campus. I can't blame them if their first thought is "what is a Klansman doing in the buffet line?"

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK members
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2016, 12:49:44 PM »
I thought Dominicans were supposed to wear a black cope over their white habits, hence the English nickname blackfriars, just as Carmelites wear a white cope over their brown habits, hence whitefriars or magpies, and Franciscans wear a grey cope and habit (hence greyfriars), or brown in the case of the Cappucins (hence cappucinos).

It seems like if he were dressed in the classical Dominican appearance he could have avoided this.  But a huge number of other religious groups wear purely white robes.  Norbertine fathers, for example.  Or Samaritans, and various Islamic clerics, and Sikhs.  And Ethiopian Orthodox wrap themselves in a white shroud.  We use white baptismal robes.

Also, I would fear they might think our Paschal processions are some sort of prelude to a cross burning, especially if our clergy are vested in white rather than the Russian red.
How do you know so much that you can tell a clergyman outside your own church what he's supposed to wear? ???

Well, because every icon of Dominicans and every historic photo I have of them shows them attired with a black cope.
So because you've seen a few pictures of Dominicans, you think you know everything about what they traditionally wear.

No.  I am close friends with one and am aware of the degree to which they have become, how shall I put it, inconsistent, these days.  Also it is a simple matter of fact that Dominicans wore and often still do wear the black cappa, shaped so as to form a black cross on a white background viewed from above, which is why the British traditionally called them blackfriars.

I don't see what they're complaining about, they have their own republic for crying out loud...
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2016, 01:34:47 PM »
I've read that the John Birch Society deliberately modeled itself after communist organizations; it was a "beat them by emulating them" mindset. The KKK actually did draw some inspiration for how it was run from Catholicism, despite (or perhaps because of) the Klan's hatred of it.

More recently we have people like Anders Breivik citing Al-Qaeda and jihadism as influences.

The JBS did NOT model itself after any such thing.
You may have read that on the inter-web, where most all things are unbelievable.
But no matter where you read it, it is false.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2016, 01:44:09 PM »
One thing that hasn't been brought up in this discussion, well, just about anywhere: Indiana is a hotbed for the Klan, and has been for about a century. The revival of the so-called "Second Klan" beginning in 1915 was particularly strong in Indiana, and by the 20s it had one of the largest and well-organized Klans in the country. The Klan still has a significant presence when you get outside of the few major cities in the state, like Bloomington.

So put yourself in the mind of a student living in Indiana, maybe even someone who also grew up in the state, who sees someone in a white robe on their campus. I can't blame them if their first thought is "what is a Klansman doing in the buffet line?"

Does Indiana have Black folks there?
Pardon my prejudice & ignorance but I never thought there were Blacks in Indiana, which would make it an easy place for cowards like the KKK to organize.
And thanks for differentiating between the second wave of the Klan (1915), which could also be labeled the 3rd wave by some.
Funny all these things were part of the Democratic Party, but we won't talk about that as it's not PC, officially speaking.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2016, 01:46:46 PM »
Does Indiana have Black folks there?
LOL, wut?
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Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2016, 01:54:07 PM »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2016, 02:11:32 PM »
Does Indiana have Black folks there?
Pardon my prejudice & ignorance but I never thought there were Blacks in Indiana, which would make it an easy place for cowards like the KKK to organize.

You are pardoned.

Quote
Funny all these things were part of the Democratic Party, but we won't talk about that as it's not PC, officially speaking.

I'm not sure what you mean. It's widely known that the Southern Democrats positioned themselves as the "white man's party" for a long time, exploiting anger over the war and reconstruction (though look up the "Lily-White" movement among Southern Republicans). That started to peel back in the mid 20th century until they finally relinquished the white supremacist demographic to the Republicans by passing things like the Civil Rights Act. Neither party today would be recognizable to its members circa 1870.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 02:17:07 PM by Iconodule »
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Offline biro

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2016, 03:53:00 PM »
The Dixiecrats transferred to the Republicans when the civil rights legislation passed.

Admitting *that* is what is not PC for Len.  ::)
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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2016, 03:54:49 PM »
The Dixiecrats transferred to the Republicans when the civil rights legislation passed.

Robert Byrd disagrees.

Offline wgw

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK members
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2016, 04:21:36 PM »
I thought Dominicans were supposed to wear a black cope over their white habits, hence the English nickname blackfriars, just as Carmelites wear a white cope over their brown habits, hence whitefriars or magpies, and Franciscans wear a grey cope and habit (hence greyfriars), or brown in the case of the Cappucins (hence cappucinos).

It seems like if he were dressed in the classical Dominican appearance he could have avoided this.  But a huge number of other religious groups wear purely white robes.  Norbertine fathers, for example.  Or Samaritans, and various Islamic clerics, and Sikhs.  And Ethiopian Orthodox wrap themselves in a white shroud.  We use white baptismal robes.

Also, I would fear they might think our Paschal processions are some sort of prelude to a cross burning, especially if our clergy are vested in white rather than the Russian red.
How do you know so much that you can tell a clergyman outside your own church what he's supposed to wear? ???

Well, because every icon of Dominicans and every historic photo I have of them shows them attired with a black cope.
So because you've seen a few pictures of Dominicans, you think you know everything about what they traditionally wear.

No.  I am close friends with one and am aware of the degree to which they have become, how shall I put it, inconsistent, these days.  Also it is a simple matter of fact that Dominicans wore and often still do wear the black cappa, shaped so as to form a black cross on a white background viewed from above, which is why the British traditionally called them blackfriars.

http://english.op.org/godzdogz/quodlibet-31-faqs-about-the-dominican-habit

The article comtained one factoid which might be true in relation to the Dominican Province of England Wales:

"Finally, some people wonder about whether we use our hoods (capuce) to cover our heads, and if so, when. We no longer have any customs or rubrics about their use, so that they are raised, if an individual brother so desires, for purely practical reasons: to keep the head warm in the winter, to minimize distractions during private prayer, to keep the head dry when it is raining. "

However, out West, in California and a few other places the traditional Dominican Rite office is celebrated in a few places by members of the OP using the 1955 Dominican liturgical books.  There, the hood is used litturgically, in  accord with the pronciples in the article linked to under that paragraph, which oresents them as if theynwere unaware of them.

Alas most Dominicans just use the Novus Ordo, so California is quite boessed to have Dkminicans who actually care about and use the older rite.  There are about five or six friars out here who use the Old Dominican Rite, enough so that solemn masses are not uncommon in the Bay Area (with deacon and subdeacon).
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Offline Avdima

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2016, 04:24:44 PM »
One thing that hasn't been brought up in this discussion, well, just about anywhere: Indiana is a hotbed for the Klan, and has been for about a century. The revival of the so-called "Second Klan" beginning in 1915 was particularly strong in Indiana, and by the 20s it had one of the largest and well-organized Klans in the country. The Klan still has a significant presence when you get outside of the few major cities in the state, like Bloomington.

So put yourself in the mind of a student living in Indiana, maybe even someone who also grew up in the state, who sees someone in a white robe on their campus. I can't blame them if their first thought is "what is a Klansman doing in the buffet line?"

LOL reminds of the story of Catholic students from Notre Dame having a big ole brawl with the Klan in the old days.


Quote
Nowhere in America was the Klan stronger and more vocal than in Indiana. According to historian Murray Sperber in his excellent book, “Shake Down the Thunder: The Creation of Notre Dame Football,” about one in three adult white men (approximately 250,000) in Indiana in 1924 were members of the Klan. They were drawn to the Klan’s professions of patriotism and traditional values. Economic factors also played a role, as the American farmer — in contrast to the “roaring” economies of the cities — suffered from falling prices and foreclosures in the 1920s. The Klan helped them identify the sources of their woe — Jewish bankers, Wall Street tycoons, uppity blacks, and the Catholic Church. Not surprisingly, Notre Dame became a favorite target of Klan conspiracy mongers.

Needless to say, Notre Dame students and faculty were keenly aware of the Klan’s animosity. So when the Klan’s newspaper, The Fiery Cross, announced that a week-long “Klavern” would take place in South Bend beginning on May 17, passions were aroused and plans quietly made for the Klan to be met with an appropriate greeting. When the first Klansmen stepped off their train on the 17th, a crowd of angry students descended upon them, beating them and shredding their robes and regalia before forcibly putting them back on the train. South Bend police arrived soon thereafter and allowed the successive trainloads of Klansmen to detrain.

Nonetheless, clashes between Notre Dame students and Klansmen occurred throughout the weekend near the convention hall housing the Klan’s rally. The students’ fury reached a fever pitch on May 19, when rumors (false it turned out) flew about that Klansmen had killed a Notre Dame student. Thousands of students massed downtown intent on tearing the Klavern to shreds. Only the arrival of college president Fr. Matthew Walsh and a spring downpour managed to cool the crowd and no further violence occurred. The next day, football coach Knute Rockne spoke at a campus rally and implored the students to obey the college president and refrain from further violence. A few days later the Klavern broke up and South Bend returned to normal.

But for the Klan’s sympathizers, the events in South Bend only convinced them even more that Notre Dame was a sinister institution and that the enemies of America, Protestantism, and rural values had to be stopped. Pro-Klan newspapers printed allegations that Notre Dame students assaulted women and children and destroyed American flags. At that summer’s Democratic national convention, the Klan made its strength known when Klan-friendly delegates successfully blocked an anti-Klan plank in the party platform and then stymied the nomination of its sponsor, New York Gov. Al Smith. That fall the Klan helped elect a pro-Klan governor in Indiana who promptly introduced several anti-Catholic bills in the state legislature, including a proposal to outlaw parochial schools. Four years later, the Klan would again mobilize its forces to help defeat candidate Smith in his bid for the White House.


http://irishecho.com/2011/02/78-years-ago-notre-dame-battles-the-kkk-3/

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2016, 05:24:05 PM »
A priest dressed in a long white robe was mistaken for a member of the KKK at Indiana University--Bloomington.  It then started a social media firestorm with a retraction later offered, but with justification offered because the person was rightfully scared.  This is beyond ridiculous.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/04/06/indiana-university-students-mistake-priest-for-kkk-member/
What a bunch of drama queens. ::)
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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2016, 05:25:50 PM »
The Dixiecrats transferred to the Republicans when the civil rights legislation passed.

Robert Byrd disagrees.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2016, 05:37:19 PM »
Does Indiana have Black folks there?
LOL, wut?

I don't get out of the house much.  :-\
So do they?
Or are they like Main, Rhode Island, Idaho or Vermont?

I'll check.........13%....well, folks have their fair share there!
So what's the big dealyo?
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2016, 05:38:39 PM »
The Klan may be a semi-esoteric organization in its origins. Their pointy hats might have an origin in the Spanish rituals of wearing similar robes, like the La Paz brotherhood? 


Seville


Seville. Notice the circle around the symmetrical cross.

I'm not going to post klan images here, but here's a link for comparison:
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/2/4/16/enhanced-buzz-18404-1360015130-10.jpg
Comparing a 400 yr old Spanish Catholic organization with the "ghost riders" of the losers of the Civil War in a really pathetic attempt to correlate the two is rather a sad state of affairs of your imagination.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2016, 05:50:24 PM »
Does Indiana have Black folks there?
Pardon my prejudice & ignorance but I never thought there were Blacks in Indiana, which would make it an easy place for cowards like the KKK to organize.

You are pardoned.

Quote
Funny all these things were part of the Democratic Party, but we won't talk about that as it's not PC, officially speaking.

I'm not sure what you mean. It's widely known that the Southern Democrats positioned themselves as the "white man's party" for a long time, exploiting anger over the war and reconstruction (though look up the "Lily-White" movement among Southern Republicans). That started to peel back in the mid 20th century until they finally relinquished the white supremacist demographic to the Republicans by passing things like the Civil Rights Act. Neither party today would be recognizable to its members circa 1870.

You make points.
Consider that Republicans started the first series of civil rights acts from 1866 to 1875 and continued to do so up to the 1957 proposal (under a Republican admin; the loudest voice to pass was by a Republican from California. Meanwhile previous members of the KKK were all Democrats.
Consider that the Dems vetoed all the civil rights bills up to and including the 1964 one that finally passed.
Consider that the Dems segregated the military and WWI.
Consider the reasons President Wilson's name should have been removed from the university's hall.
Consider that every single racial police was promulgated by the Dems. Democrats pushed hard the racial card, while most folks simply want to live their lives and simply be Americans.
The above is not to dismiss nor mitigate racial issues of our collective history. It is now the case that things are so truly passionate that clear and healing dialogue is nigh impossible. To much noise, not enough signal getting across.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2016, 05:51:59 PM »
The Dixiecrats transferred to the Republicans when the civil rights legislation passed.

Robert Byrd disagrees.

If you've been told once.....stop confounding the issue with facts.
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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2016, 05:53:55 PM »
Comparing a 400 yr old Spanish Catholic organization with the "ghost riders" of the losers of the Civil War in a really pathetic attempt to correlate the two is rather a sad state of affairs of your imagination.
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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2016, 06:16:39 PM »
Thread locked pending moderator review.

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #64 on: April 10, 2016, 11:33:08 PM »
LenInSebastopol,

Since February 17, 2015, you have engaged in one specific violation of the forum rules FIVE TIMES, that is engaging in political discussion (that doesn't include other violations you made in the past).  It has also come to my attention that not only were you publicly warned to knock it off, but you defiantly pm'ed that you are well aware of engaging in politics in a public forum, and then you proceeded to post more politics.  At this point, you cannot claim to not know the rules, neither can you claim to unintentionally write these posts in the area you did given your history and your behavior.

The amount of penalty that shall be given to you is in discussion.  The thread will remain locked until then.

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2016, 10:09:08 PM »
LenInSebastopol,

The last time you engaged in politics you received 25%.  I am going to give you 35% penalty, putting you to a total of 40% penalty in the moment.  That means approximately 15-17 days you will be on post-moderation, and the remainder 25 days on a probationary period.

PM me if you like to appeal the decision.

I'm unlocking the thread.  Everyone else, knock off the politics.  If you want to discuss politics, take it to the private section of this site, not here.

God bless.

Mina
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 10:09:59 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Priest mistaken for KKK member
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2016, 10:25:34 AM »
LenInSebastopol,

Given your promise of understanding the rules, I reduced your penalty to 20%.

God bless you.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 10:25:52 AM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.