Author Topic: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.  (Read 4419 times)

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Raylight

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Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« on: April 01, 2016, 06:35:11 PM »
The Province of Quebec is predominantly Catholic. Catholicism there is not just a religion, it is a culture and an identity. It's what distinguishes the province from the rest of Canada. Catholicism is what kept Quebec from losing its uniqueness and always been there for the people of Quebec. However, it seems that many of the people of Quebec are not doing the same for the Catholic Church. Here is an example.


Physician-Assisted Suicide: Canadians reject certain Commons committee recommendations. (2016, April 1). Retrieved from http://angusreid.org/assisted-suicide-law/



Physician-Assisted Suicide: Canadians reject certain Commons committee recommendations. (2016, April 1). Retrieved from http://angusreid.org/assisted-suicide-law/

I think the pictures above say it all.


What do you think? Why are some of the most Catholic countries and provinces in the world usually are the most secular and the least to tolerate the Catholic Church's views?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 06:35:48 PM by Raylight »

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2016, 10:48:54 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 11:01:08 PM by Raylight »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 11:04:40 PM »
This is what happens when all of your swear words are based on elements of the mass.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 11:05:17 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

The reason?  Vatican II.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 03:47:11 AM »
I've heard that Montreal is the most cosmopolitan area; Quebec City and the rest of the province are supposedly more old-fashioned.

Montreal is beautiful, by the way. Visited there in 1992, just after Easter, and we visited a Catholic church, though sorry I can't remember the saint's name.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 09:42:18 AM »
I've heard that Montreal is the most cosmopolitan area; Quebec City and the rest of the province are supposedly more old-fashioned.

Montreal is beautiful, by the way. Visited there in 1992, just after Easter, and we visited a Catholic church, though sorry I can't remember the saint's name.

Montreal is a very European city here in North America.  And I'm not saying that as a criticism.
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 09:52:44 AM »
Also correct me if I'm wrong Canadians are mostly desdents of Brits, while Quebec is largerly French? the British-French rivarly lives on in Canada :D

Last I heard, maybe Raylight can correct me if i'm wrong, but the separtist movement died down, since the majority voted against it, in I believe the 1990's.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 10:03:14 AM »
all of your swear words are based on elements of the mass.

Wut?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 10:03:45 AM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 10:03:51 AM »
I've heard that Montreal is the most cosmopolitan area; Quebec City and the rest of the province are supposedly more old-fashioned.

Montreal is beautiful, by the way. Visited there in 1992, just after Easter, and we visited a Catholic church, though sorry I can't remember the saint's name.

Montreal is a very European city here in North America.  And I'm not saying that as a criticism.

Only old Montreal. The rest of the city has succumbed to those dreadful edifices of glass and steel.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 10:05:01 AM by Cyrillic »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2016, 10:12:41 AM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

Scam beat me to it, but quite possibly VaticanII, another example/story I heard recently that maybe some former Catholics can relate to. A woman sends her kid to a small "o" orthodox Catholic school, surpise surpise this liberal woman is shocked and surpised to learn her kid was learning actual Catholicism straight from the Catholic Catechism, so she goes onto her parish's website to complain about how "cruel, unfair, etc." on sexuality, abortion, marriage that Catholic teachings are, with the majority of so called "Catholics" in the comment section agreeing with her. I think this woman, and most these millenial parents agreeing grew up with the spirit of VaticanII.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2016, 11:19:07 AM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

Scam beat me to it, but quite possibly VaticanII, another example/story I heard recently that maybe some former Catholics can relate to. A woman sends her kid to a small "o" orthodox Catholic school, surpise surpise this liberal woman is shocked and surpised to learn her kid was learning actual Catholicism straight from the Catholic Catechism, so she goes onto her parish's website to complain about how "cruel, unfair, etc." on sexuality, abortion, marriage that Catholic teachings are, with the majority of so called "Catholics" in the comment section agreeing with her. I think this woman, and most these millenial parents agreeing grew up with the spirit of VaticanII.

Or, you know, it could have something to do with how the Rome has utterly discredited itself on anything relating to sexuality, due to the massive priest abuse cover-ups and all.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2016, 01:15:07 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

Scam beat me to it, but quite possibly VaticanII, another example/story I heard recently that maybe some former Catholics can relate to. A woman sends her kid to a small "o" orthodox Catholic school, surpise surpise this liberal woman is shocked and surpised to learn her kid was learning actual Catholicism straight from the Catholic Catechism, so she goes onto her parish's website to complain about how "cruel, unfair, etc." on sexuality, abortion, marriage that Catholic teachings are, with the majority of so called "Catholics" in the comment section agreeing with her. I think this woman, and most these millenial parents agreeing grew up with the spirit of VaticanII.

Or, you know, it could have something to do with how the Rome has utterly discredited itself on anything relating to sexuality, due to the massive priest abuse cover-ups and all.

If Rome has discredited itself "on anything relating to sexuality", it is not because of the clerical sex abuse scandals.  Not even 0.01%. 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2016, 01:25:24 PM »
The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

What's liberal about the opinions of the Quebecois mentioned in the study? They seem to be quite authoritarian.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 01:25:47 PM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2016, 02:16:17 PM »
The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

What's liberal about the opinions of the Quebecois mentioned in the study? They seem to be quite authoritarian.

Touche!
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2016, 02:18:16 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

Scam beat me to it, but quite possibly VaticanII, another example/story I heard recently that maybe some former Catholics can relate to. A woman sends her kid to a small "o" orthodox Catholic school, surpise surpise this liberal woman is shocked and surpised to learn her kid was learning actual Catholicism straight from the Catholic Catechism, so she goes onto her parish's website to complain about how "cruel, unfair, etc." on sexuality, abortion, marriage that Catholic teachings are, with the majority of so called "Catholics" in the comment section agreeing with her. I think this woman, and most these millenial parents agreeing grew up with the spirit of VaticanII.

Yeah, I love reading stories about people who send their kids to Catholic schools and are shocked, SHOCKED, to learn that they are learning about Catholicism instead of the wishy-washy "I'm OK, you're OK" moral relativism that has become the bedrock of most educational institutions these days. 
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2016, 03:44:52 PM »
Any discussion of Catholicism in Quebec would have to include this, too.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2016, 03:56:05 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.
They are also the ones with a high number of atheists, liberals, freemasons   and  Talmudic Jews.

A true Catholic state would keep all of  them  in check.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2016, 03:58:48 PM »
all of your swear words are based on elements of the mass.

Wut?

An article once mentioned kids in a hockey game yelling "Hosti!" (Communion Host) and "Tabarnac!" (Tabernacle) when a play didn't go right.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2016, 04:00:29 PM »
all of your swear words are based on elements of the mass.

Wut?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French_profanity
Because Catholic descended cultures know where real profanity comes from.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2016, 04:42:50 PM »
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2016, 04:43:35 AM »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2016, 01:50:21 PM »
According to what I read on the Wiki link, the profanity thing started in the early 19th century when the Catholic clergy controlled a great deal of the social life in the province, and the people showed their frustration by using Catholic Mass elements as swearing words. Then during the Quite Revolution which started by the Liberals in the province in the 1960s, the Catholic Church began to lose its influence and today we have a secular Catholic Quebec.

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2016, 01:51:34 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.
They are also the ones with a high number of atheists, liberals, freemasons   and  Talmudic Jews.

A true Catholic state would keep all of  them  in check.


That is your opinion of what a "true Catholic state" would look like.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2016, 02:02:38 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.
They are also the ones with a high number of atheists, liberals, freemasons   and  Talmudic Jews.

A true Catholic state would keep all of  them  in check.


That is your opinion of what a "true Catholic state" would look like.

Compared to Charles, you've been Roman Catholic for four minutes. 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2016, 02:11:06 PM »
I thought Raylight was agnostic now?
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Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2016, 02:11:14 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.
They are also the ones with a high number of atheists, liberals, freemasons   and  Talmudic Jews.

A true Catholic state would keep all of  them  in check.


That is your opinion of what a "true Catholic state" would look like.

Compared to Charles, you've been Roman Catholic for four minutes.

Read the Gospels and you will find that Jesus disagrees! Based on your logic, a priest that abused a child sexually is still better Catholic than me, because you know, I've been Catholic for four minutes.

PS: I fixed the Roman Catholic to Catholic.

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2016, 02:14:02 PM »
I thought Raylight was agnostic now?

I called myself Agnostic-Catholic sweetheart. However, my doubts lately are going away thanks to some replies here and to the time I spent with my priest discussing my doubts. I have some doubts here and there, but last time I met my priest, he was very tough and had some harsh words to say, but that made me realize how ridiculous it is of me to call myself "Agnostic-Catholic".

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2016, 02:19:08 PM »
I thought Raylight was agnostic now?

I called myself Agnostic-Catholic sweetheart.

I'm not a secretary at Sterling Cooper, so let's not do this, okay?

Quote
However, my doubts lately are going away thanks to some replies here and to the time I spent with my priest discussing my doubts. I have some doubts here and there, but last time I met my priest, he was very tough and had some harsh words to say, but that made me realize how ridiculous it is of me to call myself "Agnostic-Catholic".

He sounds like a keeper.
You want your belt to buckle, not your chair.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2016, 02:21:24 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.
They are also the ones with a high number of atheists, liberals, freemasons   and  Talmudic Jews.

A true Catholic state would keep all of  them  in check.


That is your opinion of what a "true Catholic state" would look like.

Compared to Charles, you've been Roman Catholic for four minutes.

Read the Gospels and you will find that Jesus disagrees!

The Gospels say nothing about whether or not Charles is more RC than you are. 

Quote
Based on your logic, a priest that abused a child sexually is still better Catholic than me, because you know, I've been Catholic for four minutes.

I didn't say "better".

I'm amazed that you are a law student and you are so incapable of reading.  Charles has been RC longer than you have been.  Not better, not worse, just longer.  And I suspect he knows a thing or two about traditional Roman Catholic states and how they operated vis a vis the various minority groups you listed.  It's not like the Roman Catholic West has been solidly secular and liberal from the beginning.  You'd probably feel very uncomfortable in those countries if they were actually RC.  If you are perfectly comfortable living in one of them, chances are it's because those people gave up on religion a long time ago. 

Quote
PS: I fixed the Roman Catholic to Catholic.

You didn't fix it, you just deformed it. 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2016, 02:22:28 PM »
I thought Raylight was agnostic now?

I called myself Agnostic-Catholic sweetheart.

I'm not a secretary at Sterling Cooper, so let's not do this, okay?

Quote
However, my doubts lately are going away thanks to some replies here and to the time I spent with my priest discussing my doubts. I have some doubts here and there, but last time I met my priest, he was very tough and had some harsh words to say, but that made me realize how ridiculous it is of me to call myself "Agnostic-Catholic".

He sounds like a keeper.

I didn't mean to offend you at all. You're just one of the members I like here, even though we don't participate in each others thread that much. My apologies :)

Yes, he is a keeper. What he did last time we met made me realize that a priest is not just a man that lead the Mass and hear confessions, but also a spiritual father that will not let his children be taken away without a fight.

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2016, 02:27:52 PM »
I thought Raylight was agnostic now?

I called myself Agnostic-Catholic sweetheart.

I'm not a secretary at Sterling Cooper, so let's not do this, okay?

Quote
However, my doubts lately are going away thanks to some replies here and to the time I spent with my priest discussing my doubts. I have some doubts here and there, but last time I met my priest, he was very tough and had some harsh words to say, but that made me realize how ridiculous it is of me to call myself "Agnostic-Catholic".

He sounds like a keeper.

I didn't mean to offend you at all. You're just one of the members I like here, even though we don't participate in each others thread that much. My apologies :)

No worries. It is hard to determine tone through Internet text, and in this case I'm glad to be wrong. No apology necessary.

Quote
Yes, he is a keeper. What he did last time we met made me realize that a priest is not just a man that lead the Mass and hear confessions, but also a spiritual father that will not let his children be taken away without a fight.

That is good indeed.
You want your belt to buckle, not your chair.

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2016, 02:30:23 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.
They are also the ones with a high number of atheists, liberals, freemasons   and  Talmudic Jews.

A true Catholic state would keep all of  them  in check.


That is your opinion of what a "true Catholic state" would look like.

Compared to Charles, you've been Roman Catholic for four minutes.

Read the Gospels and you will find that Jesus disagrees!

The Gospels say nothing about whether or not Charles is more RC than you are. 

Quote
Based on your logic, a priest that abused a child sexually is still better Catholic than me, because you know, I've been Catholic for four minutes.

I didn't say "better".

I'm amazed that you are a law student and you are so incapable of reading.  Charles has been RC longer than you have been.  Not better, not worse, just longer.  And I suspect he knows a thing or two about traditional Roman Catholic states and how they operated vis a vis the various minority groups you listed.  It's not like the Roman Catholic West has been solidly secular and liberal from the beginning.  You'd probably feel very uncomfortable in those countries if they were actually RC.  If you are perfectly comfortable living in one of them, chances are it's because those people gave up on religion a long time ago. 

Quote
PS: I fixed the Roman Catholic to Catholic.

You didn't fix it, you just deformed it.

I'm not a Law student yet Mor. I used to be one back in the days but here I need to finish some undergrad degree before getting to Law School. May I count on your wishes :) I admit that I misunderstood you and I apologize.

I'm well aware that traditional Catholic States would probably put me in jail because I'm gaaaaaaay!

Question; Are you saying that a Christian State is a state that would discriminate and wipe out those who are not in line with Christianity? Like Saudi Arabia or Iran?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 02:35:07 PM by Raylight »

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2016, 02:30:55 PM »
I thought Raylight was agnostic now?

I called myself Agnostic-Catholic sweetheart.

I'm not a secretary at Sterling Cooper, so let's not do this, okay?

Quote
However, my doubts lately are going away thanks to some replies here and to the time I spent with my priest discussing my doubts. I have some doubts here and there, but last time I met my priest, he was very tough and had some harsh words to say, but that made me realize how ridiculous it is of me to call myself "Agnostic-Catholic".

He sounds like a keeper.

I didn't mean to offend you at all. You're just one of the members I like here, even though we don't participate in each others thread that much. My apologies :)

No worries. It is hard to determine tone through Internet text, and in this case I'm glad to be wrong. No apology necessary.


Thank you :)

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2016, 03:11:28 PM »
I'm not a Law student yet Mor. I used to be one back in the days but here I need to finish some undergrad degree before getting to Law School. May I count on your wishes :)

You may.

Quote
I admit that I misunderstood you and I apologize.

No worries!

Question; Are you saying that a Christian State is a state that would discriminate and wipe out those who are not in line with Christianity? Like Saudi Arabia or Iran?

I take no position on a "Christian State". 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2016, 04:09:54 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.
They are also the ones with a high number of atheists, liberals, freemasons   and  Talmudic Jews.

A true Catholic state would keep all of  them  in check.


That is your opinion of what a "true Catholic state" would look like.
Not just mine, but the Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church himself.

All are under the Social Kingship of Christ;

IT WOULD BE A GRAVE ERROR, ON THE OTHER HAND, TO SAY THAT CHRIST HAS NO AUTHORITY WHATEVER IN CIVIL AFFAIRS, SINCE, BY VIRTUE OF THE ABSOLUTE EMPIRE OVER ALL CREATURES COMMITTED TO HIM BY THE FATHER, ALL THINGS ARE IN HIS POWER.- from the encyclical Quas Primas of Pope Pius XI December 11, 1925


In a truly Catholic state the honor and obligations deserved to the Redeemer would be given in full;

"32. Nations will be reminded by the annual celebration of this feast that not only private individuals but also rulers and princes are bound to give public honor and obedience to Christ. It will call to their minds the thought of the last judgment, wherein Christ, who has been cast out of public life, despised, neglected and ignored, will most severely avenge these insults; for his kingly dignity demands that the State should take account of the commandments of God and of Christian principles, both in making laws and in administering justice, and also in providing for the young a sound moral education.-Quas Primas, 32

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2016, 04:13:37 PM »
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I'm well aware that traditional Catholic States would probably put me in jail because I'm gaaaaaaay!
If you engaged  openly in sodomic behavior that would be quite the possibility. But you should be more concerned of putting yourself outside of God's grace and endangering the state of your immortal soul.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2016, 04:22:41 PM »
Okay, to make the thread more relatable to the Americans (cause apparently otherwise they won't get involved ::) ) The States that are predominantly Catholic also seem to be more secular and liberal.

Scam beat me to it, but quite possibly VaticanII, another example/story I heard recently that maybe some former Catholics can relate to. A woman sends her kid to a small "o" orthodox Catholic school, surpise surpise this liberal woman is shocked and surpised to learn her kid was learning actual Catholicism straight from the Catholic Catechism, so she goes onto her parish's website to complain about how "cruel, unfair, etc." on sexuality, abortion, marriage that Catholic teachings are, with the majority of so called "Catholics" in the comment section agreeing with her. I think this woman, and most these millenial parents agreeing grew up with the spirit of VaticanII.

Or, you know, it could have something to do with how the Rome has utterly discredited itself on anything relating to sexuality, due to the massive priest abuse cover-ups and all.
You say this while living in a state that accepts and encourages the Sin of Sodom.

The Vatican has recently come down hard on the scandals, while the atheist, "freedom" loving. antiChrist culture we live in will soon move from "gay" marriages to soon accepting child-to adult sexual "relationships".

Mark my words, pedophila will be the next socially accepted "lifestyle" or "choice"  within the next five years.

I dare you to believe it.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2016, 04:30:22 PM »
Mark my words, pedophila will be the next socially accepted "lifestyle" or "choice"  within the next five years.

I dare you to believe it.

The next step will probably be polygamy.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2016, 04:41:00 PM »
Mark my words, pedophila will be the next socially accepted "lifestyle" or "choice"  within the next five years.

I dare you to believe it.

The next step will probably be polygamy.
Of course.

I mean, if someone is in "love" with four other people, who are we to tell them they all  can't get married?

Next it will be "consensual" reltionships between children and adults.

I mean, if they're in "love" too, who are we to say they can't be in a relationship?

You see where this is going?
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2016, 04:42:35 PM »
Yes Raylight, in a Catholic state, this would not be happening.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2016, 05:09:25 PM »
Yes Raylight, in a Catholic state, this would not be happening.

Assuming one can actually coerce moral behavior without immorality just going on in the shadows.

Of course, maybe rapidly advancing surveillance technology is the Catholic Church's best friend.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 05:11:34 PM by Volnutt »
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2016, 06:49:22 PM »
Mark my words, pedophila will be the next socially accepted "lifestyle" or "choice"  within the next five years.

I dare you to believe it.

The next step will probably be polygamy.
Of course.
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2016, 07:10:34 PM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood. Everyone else thinks it's disgusting, and it will never be legalized here in the US because children CANNOT give informed consent under the law, just like animals can't.

And I still haven't seen anyone else address the elephant in the room, which is the 20,000 (some sources have 300,000!) Duplessis orphans. It's times like these when I wish Pravoslavac and Mountain were still here; they'd be all over this for sure.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2016, 07:16:01 PM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood. Everyone else thinks it's disgusting...

Is it really a fact?  Where's your proof? 

Quote
...and it will never be legalized here in the US because children CANNOT give informed consent under the law, just like animals can't.

Never say never. 

Quote
And I still haven't seen anyone else address the elephant in the room, which is the 20,000 (some sources have 300,000!) Duplessis orphans. It's times like these when I wish Pravoslavac and Mountain were still here; they'd be all over this for sure.

Why?  None of the Duplessis Orphans were Serbs. 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2016, 07:26:35 PM »
I'm well aware of the views of many people here, especially Charles, and I'm aware that you would be pleased to criminalize homosexuality if you had the power to.

After what I'm going to say, I hope we can go back to the main point of the thread, which is why majority Catholic countries/provinces/states in the West are quite secular as well.

The Devil knows me very well, and he knows my weaknesses, and he uses them to pull me away from the Faith. One of those ways is imagination. He always starts with 'what if?', what if Canada was a Christian country? What if the Catholic Church was also the State? What if you lived in a country where Christianity influences the government? and the list is long. Many of you here saw me asking these questions and saw where they lead me. I already knew that I have to stop this, and my priest demanded me to stop this silly imagination game that in the end of the day is irrelevant to the real life. I always allowed the Evil One to convince me that Christ hates me, that I'm better off without Christianity, and it all began with 'What if?'. Maybe I'll be put in jail if I lived in a State that is Catholic, maybe I would be in jail if I lived in a country that uses Christian morality as the basis for its laws, but that is just imagination. It is not reality for me, and it is irrelevant. The Catholic Church in Canada doesn't even care anymore about taking over the State and use the Catechism as the base for the Legal system. (Maybe some Catholics would love for that to happen, but they are irrelevant to me as well). I'm not going to waste my time and jeopardize my faith in Christ and His Church by going into the game of 'what if?'.  All that imagination and talk about outlawing homosexuality are irrelevant to my salvation. Therefore, I will not get involved in such discussions.

When I stated that it is your opinion (Charle's) of what a good Catholic State would look like, I didn't intend for it to lead to a discussion about whether homosexuality should be outlawed or not. We already talked about it more than once. My post was about your statement that indicated that a Catholic State would control people's lives and discriminate against non-Catholics.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 07:39:16 PM by Raylight »

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2016, 07:38:31 PM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood. Everyone else thinks it's disgusting, and it will never be legalized here in the US because children CANNOT give informed consent under the law, just like animals can't.

And I still haven't seen anyone else address the elephant in the room, which is the 20,000 (some sources have 300,000!) Duplessis orphans. It's times like these when I wish Pravoslavac and Mountain were still here; they'd be all over this for sure.

Children: just like animals.
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Offline Theophania

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2016, 07:45:56 PM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood. Everyone else thinks it's disgusting, and it will never be legalized here in the US because children CANNOT give informed consent under the law, just like animals can't.

And I still haven't seen anyone else address the elephant in the room, which is the 20,000 (some sources have 300,000!) Duplessis orphans. It's times like these when I wish Pravoslavac and Mountain were still here; they'd be all over this for sure.

Children: just like animals.

Are you disagreeing?
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2016, 07:53:01 PM »
I'm well aware of the views of many people here, especially Charles, and I'm aware that you would be pleased to criminalize homosexuality if you had the power to.

After what I'm going to say, I hope we can go back to the main point of the thread, which is why majority Catholic countries/provinces/states in the West are quite secular as well.

The Devil knows me very well, and he knows my weaknesses, and he uses them to pull me away from the Faith. One of those ways is imagination. He always starts with 'what if?', what if Canada was a Christian country? What if the Catholic Church was also the State? What if you lived in a country where Christianity influences the government? and the list is long. Many of you here saw me asking these questions and saw where they lead me. I already knew that I have to stop this, and my priest demanded me to stop this silly imagination game that in the end of the day is irrelevant to the real life. I always allowed the Evil One to convince me that Christ hates me, that I'm better off without Christianity, and it all began with 'What if?'. Maybe I'll be put in jail if I lived in a State that is Catholic, maybe I would be in jail if I lived in a country that uses Christian morality as the basis for its laws, but that is just imagination. It is not reality for me, and it is irrelevant. The Catholic Church in Canada doesn't even care anymore about taking over the State and use the Catechism as the base for the Legal system. (Maybe some Catholics would love for that to happen, but they are irrelevant to me as well). I'm not going to waste my time and jeopardize my faith in Christ and His Church by going into the game of 'what if?'.  All that imagination and talk about outlawing homosexuality are irrelevant to my salvation. Therefore, I will not get involved in such discussions.

I'm very glad you came to this conclusion, Raylight! :)
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2016, 08:10:17 PM »
Yes Raylight, in a Catholic state, this would not be happening.

Assuming one can actually coerce moral behavior without immorality just going on in the shadows.

Of course, maybe rapidly advancing surveillance technology is the Catholic Church's best friend.
So you suggest there be no morality anywhere. Nice.

BTW, they coerce morality of some sort  everyday in our country. You live in a land of "hate" speech and thought crimes.

I'm not getting your telescreen/ Catholic Church analogy. The Church isn't the one spying on everyone.

Maybe you should go talk to Edward Snowden.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2016, 08:12:34 PM »
Mark my words, pedophila will be the next socially accepted "lifestyle" or "choice"  within the next five years.

I dare you to believe it.

The next step will probably be polygamy.
Of course.
Polygamy is already being accepted in some places and being argued for legitimacy in our legal system.

Next question.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2016, 08:40:24 PM »
Yes Raylight, in a Catholic state, this would not be happening.

Assuming one can actually coerce moral behavior without immorality just going on in the shadows.

Of course, maybe rapidly advancing surveillance technology is the Catholic Church's best friend.
So you suggest there be no morality anywhere. Nice.

No, I'm suggesting a certain amount of minimalism. Complete policing of the beds (and intellectual discussions) of consenting adults would be next to impossible even if the RCC had control of society and complete surveillance via something like telescreens.

Whatever hypothetical trad Catholic utopia you have in mind is one only on the surface.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 08:43:28 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2016, 08:44:11 PM »
Quote
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood
That's garbage and you know it. You think Catholic priests are the only ones to ever have sex with underage children? Do we have to get into a posting war drawing out every EO priest that's ever raped a child? And for the ones that have, it is certainly not "socially acceptable" within the ranks of EO anywhere or an other Christian denomination for that matter. It's just the RCC is the biggest, with the most exposure and the deepest pockets for all kinds of frivolous lawsuits. The percentage of pedophilia within the ranks is a fraction of the clergy but thanks to an agressive anti-Catholic campaign of media frenzy and propaganda, you would think every man in a collar is a perp in the waiting. Your accusation is totally bogus, the pope and the Church strictly condmened the scandals and have taken steps to eradicate any vestige of sexual abuse. And nowhere in the RCC is this kind of atrocity "acceptable", your comments are sickening.

Why don't you go after a religion where child rape is "socially acceptable" like in some parts of Islam or the Talmud?

Or some other freakish rituals in some Eastern relgions somewhere.

Yea, I know why.

Quote
Everyone else thinks it's disgusting
NAMBLA's already tring to establish the legitimacy of pedophilia, it's already about to start getting pushed through the courts. Or how about all the "rights" the porn industry has in this country? how old do you really think them girls are in those videos? Why in the world does porn even have the "right" to exist legally in this country? Not too mention the absolute whoring of young, underage girls in making them up to look like sluts before they even begin to think about the oppostie sex. Or, in this depraved culture, the same sex. This culture is filled to the rim sexual innuendo on young people, a culture that glorifies a totally whored out Miley Cyrus and Brittany spears before her and a whole bunch of young, confused girls that were completely polluted by hollywierd before they went on to completely pollute a whole generation of other young girls to follow in their slutty shoes. No, not everyone think's it's "disgusting" by a long shot. they're actually peddeling that crap on a daily basis, so give me a break with your moral high ground and accusations against the Church.

Quote
g, and it will never be legalized here in the US because children CANNOT give informed consent under the law, just like animals can't.
You really have no clue in what your saying or how our legal system works. Children have more rights to consent now than ever. and the time is coming where their "consent" to child-rape will be legitimized. Just wait. Funny how you mention animals, because legitimizing beastiality isn't far down the pike as well. This place is going to make ancient Rome look like child's play some day. (no pun intended).

Quote
And I still haven't seen anyone else address the elephant in the room, which is the 20,000 (some sources have 300,000!) Duplessis orphans. It's times like these when I wish Pravoslavac and Mountain were still here; they'd be all over this for sure.
I don't know enough about that. Yet. But your numbers, like you accusations, look ridiculous as well.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2016, 08:50:30 PM »
Quote
I'm well aware of the views of many people here, especially Charles, and I'm aware that you would be pleased to criminalize homosexuality if you had the power to.
Why don't you take it up with Yahweh, Ray?

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:18)
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2016, 08:53:59 PM »
Yes Raylight, in a Catholic state, this would not be happening.

Assuming one can actually coerce moral behavior without immorality just going on in the shadows.

Of course, maybe rapidly advancing surveillance technology is the Catholic Church's best friend.
So you suggest there be no morality anywhere. Nice.

No, I'm suggesting a certain amount of minimalism. Complete policing of the beds (and intellectual discussions) of consenting adults would be next to impossible even if the RCC had control of society and complete surveillance via something like telescreens.

Whatever hypothetical trad Catholic utopia you have in mind is one only on the surface.
No one's suggesting banging down anyone's doors or monoriting people's bedrooms.

We just don't need that deviancy out in the public, corrupting the minds of children.

And that includes hetero open sex displays as well.

Sorry you don't mind living in Sodom.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2016, 09:45:33 PM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood.

You had better have some actual EVIDENCE to back up such an assertion.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2016, 09:50:50 PM »
Quote
I'm well aware of the views of many people here, especially Charles, and I'm aware that you would be pleased to criminalize homosexuality if you had the power to.
Why don't you take it up with Yahweh, Ray?

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:18)


Why don't you worry about your own sins, Charles, and let God judge me? In the end of the day, you're not my priest, you're not the Pope and you're not GOD. I'm sure you're not sinless, so worry about your own salvation and let me worry about mine :)

Now after you ruined the thread and turned it into a discussion about pedophilia, would you please answer the question asked in the original post.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 09:53:47 PM by Raylight »

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2016, 09:55:14 PM »
I'm well aware of the views of many people here, especially Charles, and I'm aware that you would be pleased to criminalize homosexuality if you had the power to.

After what I'm going to say, I hope we can go back to the main point of the thread, which is why majority Catholic countries/provinces/states in the West are quite secular as well.

The Devil knows me very well, and he knows my weaknesses, and he uses them to pull me away from the Faith. One of those ways is imagination. He always starts with 'what if?', what if Canada was a Christian country? What if the Catholic Church was also the State? What if you lived in a country where Christianity influences the government? and the list is long. Many of you here saw me asking these questions and saw where they lead me. I already knew that I have to stop this, and my priest demanded me to stop this silly imagination game that in the end of the day is irrelevant to the real life. I always allowed the Evil One to convince me that Christ hates me, that I'm better off without Christianity, and it all began with 'What if?'. Maybe I'll be put in jail if I lived in a State that is Catholic, maybe I would be in jail if I lived in a country that uses Christian morality as the basis for its laws, but that is just imagination. It is not reality for me, and it is irrelevant. The Catholic Church in Canada doesn't even care anymore about taking over the State and use the Catechism as the base for the Legal system. (Maybe some Catholics would love for that to happen, but they are irrelevant to me as well). I'm not going to waste my time and jeopardize my faith in Christ and His Church by going into the game of 'what if?'.  All that imagination and talk about outlawing homosexuality are irrelevant to my salvation. Therefore, I will not get involved in such discussions.

I'm very glad you came to this conclusion, Raylight! :)

Thank you :) Me too.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2016, 07:03:51 AM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood.

You had better have some actual EVIDENCE to back up such an assertion.

Decades of systemic coverups and complicity at the highest levels aren't enough for you?
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2016, 12:00:04 PM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood. Everyone else thinks it's disgusting, and it will never be legalized here in the US because children CANNOT give informed consent under the law, just like animals can't.

And I still haven't seen anyone else address the elephant in the room, which is the 20,000 (some sources have 300,000!) Duplessis orphans. It's times like these when I wish Pravoslavac and Mountain were still here; they'd be all over this for sure.

Children: just like animals.
I know, right? With these wacky liberals nowadays, you can't smack either of them with a newspaper without making someone mad.  >:(    ;)
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Offline benjohn146

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2016, 04:04:24 PM »
Bon, bon, bon... (Well, well, well...) As a proud Québécois, i will step in to clarify some misconceptions. Please, consider that the following as an "insider point of view" since that i can not back my saying with any kind of "bullet proof" facts.

Yes Québec was a fortified stronghold for the RCC at the beginning of the 1900's until Vatican2 and the peace and love movement came in during the 70's. Like my dad told me: "When we were hearing the nun knocking 3 times on the pews, it meant that we needed to kneel down...". We only have herited this cultural background from our elders.

My wife and my mother consider themselves as RC but they are denying the Trinity and there is no way that they will step in a Church. And they are not alone. When i was an atheist, my wife and I decided to baptize our children out of tradition and not because we believed. People in Québec are secular and liberal and most of them are not aware what the RCC is teaching and i am probably sure that they dont care any longer.

Last time i went i a RC parrish in Québec on my final strech as a RC, the altar table has been put aside to let the children play the Ressurection on Easter day (nothing wrong with that but, i think that Our Lord deserve a more spiritual and formal kind of worship). The priest left the Sanctuary to give the kiss of peace which is against canon law. Also, the Tabernacle was put in a dark spot of the church far from the sanctuary, which on top of my head is not ideal. Like my mother told me: "The church dont have any choice to adapt to the peoples if they want to keep them..." which is totally unnaceptable in my opinion.

With the knowledge that i have acquired during the last few month IRW different style of worship in Christendom, the RCC is closer to Protestanism worship now.

Few years ago when i was delivering furnitures in downtown Montréal, i steped into what was looking like a 1750's ish church from the outside but inside it was a condo appartments.

Dont get me wrong, there is some devouted RC still in Québec but they are expected to slowly disappear since that churches are closing more often nowadays.

Roman Catholicism, from my personnal experience, is only a cultural tag.
St Makarios, pray for us.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2016, 05:24:53 PM »
Bon, bon, bon... (Well, well, well...) As a proud Québécois, i will step in to clarify some misconceptions. Please, consider that the following as an "insider point of view" since that i can not back my saying with any kind of "bullet proof" facts.

Yes Québec was a fortified stronghold for the RCC at the beginning of the 1900's until Vatican2 and the peace and love movement came in during the 70's. Like my dad told me: "When we were hearing the nun knocking 3 times on the pews, it meant that we needed to kneel down...". We only have herited this cultural background from our elders.

My wife and my mother consider themselves as RC but they are denying the Trinity and there is no way that they will step in a Church. And they are not alone. When i was an atheist, my wife and I decided to baptize our children out of tradition and not because we believed. People in Québec are secular and liberal and most of them are not aware what the RCC is teaching and i am probably sure that they dont care any longer.

Last time i went i a RC parrish in Québec on my final strech as a RC, the altar table has been put aside to let the children play the Ressurection on Easter day (nothing wrong with that but, i think that Our Lord deserve a more spiritual and formal kind of worship). The priest left the Sanctuary to give the kiss of peace which is against canon law. Also, the Tabernacle was put in a dark spot of the church far from the sanctuary, which on top of my head is not ideal. Like my mother told me: "The church dont have any choice to adapt to the peoples if they want to keep them..." which is totally unnaceptable in my opinion.

With the knowledge that i have acquired during the last few month IRW different style of worship in Christendom, the RCC is closer to Protestanism worship now.

Few years ago when i was delivering furnitures in downtown Montréal, i steped into what was looking like a 1750's ish church from the outside but inside it was a condo appartments.

Dont get me wrong, there is some devouted RC still in Québec but they are expected to slowly disappear since that churches are closing more often nowadays.

Roman Catholicism, from my personnal experience, is only a cultural tag.

First, I want to thank for your informative reply. Second, what is happening in Quebec in terms of the Faith and the Church is unfortunate, and makes me wonder, why is it somehow easy for predominant Catholic countries/provinces/states to go that road of becoming culturally Catholic.

Some people like to blame it on Vatican II, but the fact is that it seems with or without Vatican II, it was going to happen. For example, France became secular way before the 1960s. Other Christian denominations also started to suffer after the 1960s. Which shows that the society and culture were changing anyway. I echo what Mark Massa said, that Vatican II prevented the Church from losing even more than what lost already.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2016, 07:20:26 PM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(

St Makarios, pray for us.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2016, 08:11:45 PM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(

I'm not surprised then. This supports what I read and posted here previously that using Catholic Mass elements in a blasphemous language in Quebec was the people's way of expressing their frustration with how the clergy controlled their lives. The French Revolution was also the result of such religious dictatorship.


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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2016, 08:23:39 PM »
Bon, bon, bon... (Well, well, well...) As a proud Québécois, i will step in to clarify some misconceptions. Please, consider that the following as an "insider point of view" since that i can not back my saying with any kind of "bullet proof" facts.

Yes Québec was a fortified stronghold for the RCC at the beginning of the 1900's until Vatican2 and the peace and love movement came in during the 70's. Like my dad told me: "When we were hearing the nun knocking 3 times on the pews, it meant that we needed to kneel down...". We only have herited this cultural background from our elders.

My wife and my mother consider themselves as RC but they are denying the Trinity and there is no way that they will step in a Church. And they are not alone. When i was an atheist, my wife and I decided to baptize our children out of tradition and not because we believed. People in Québec are secular and liberal and most of them are not aware what the RCC is teaching and i am probably sure that they dont care any longer.

Last time i went i a RC parrish in Québec on my final strech as a RC, the altar table has been put aside to let the children play the Ressurection on Easter day (nothing wrong with that but, i think that Our Lord deserve a more spiritual and formal kind of worship). The priest left the Sanctuary to give the kiss of peace which is against canon law. Also, the Tabernacle was put in a dark spot of the church far from the sanctuary, which on top of my head is not ideal. Like my mother told me: "The church dont have any choice to adapt to the peoples if they want to keep them..." which is totally unnaceptable in my opinion.

With the knowledge that i have acquired during the last few month IRW different style of worship in Christendom, the RCC is closer to Protestanism worship now.

Few years ago when i was delivering furnitures in downtown Montréal, i steped into what was looking like a 1750's ish church from the outside but inside it was a condo appartments.

Dont get me wrong, there is some devouted RC still in Québec but they are expected to slowly disappear since that churches are closing more often nowadays.

Roman Catholicism, from my personnal experience, is only a cultural tag.

First, I want to thank for your informative reply. Second, what is happening in Quebec in terms of the Faith and the Church is unfortunate, and makes me wonder, why is it somehow easy for predominant Catholic countries/provinces/states to go that road of becoming culturally Catholic.

Some people like to blame it on Vatican II, but the fact is that it seems with or without Vatican II, it was going to happen. For example, France became secular way before the 1960s. Other Christian denominations also started to suffer after the 1960s. Which shows that the society and culture were changing anyway. I echo what Mark Massa said, that Vatican II prevented the Church from losing even more than what lost already.

Yes, it's definitely an overcorrection (one extreme breeds the opposite). This seems to happen often. I believe it is only a matter of time before Saudi Arabia goes secular and only culturally Muslim; even though it is now Wahhabi. There is a lot of unrest and resentment bubbling beneath the surface toward the royal family and the religious establishment. Right now it hasn't come to a head yet because people are so dependent on oil money, but what happens when that dries up, as it most surely will? There is already an underground atheist Saudi scene, which currently finds its outlet via anonymous Internet posting. An estimated 5% of Saudis are atheist and that number is only expected to increase. (And then, of course, there is the crypto-Christian "Insider Movement", although how many adherents that movement has is anybody's guess).

The same thing could potentially happen in other Middle Eastern countries too, but for a number of reasons I believe Saudi Arabia is the most likely candidate to experience such a "quiet" (or not-so-quiet) revolution. But Qatar is potentially another, given how much of the population is made up of non-Muslim foreigners who are brought there as de facto serfs or slaves. Qatar is a bit like the Saint-Domingue of the modern Middle East.
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2016, 01:55:01 AM »
Bon, bon, bon... (Well, well, well...) As a proud Québécois, i will step in to clarify some misconceptions. Please, consider that the following as an "insider point of view" since that i can not back my saying with any kind of "bullet proof" facts.

Yes Québec was a fortified stronghold for the RCC at the beginning of the 1900's until Vatican2 and the peace and love movement came in during the 70's. Like my dad told me: "When we were hearing the nun knocking 3 times on the pews, it meant that we needed to kneel down...". We only have herited this cultural background from our elders.

My wife and my mother consider themselves as RC but they are denying the Trinity and there is no way that they will step in a Church. And they are not alone. When i was an atheist, my wife and I decided to baptize our children out of tradition and not because we believed. People in Québec are secular and liberal and most of them are not aware what the RCC is teaching and i am probably sure that they dont care any longer.

Last time i went i a RC parrish in Québec on my final strech as a RC, the altar table has been put aside to let the children play the Ressurection on Easter day (nothing wrong with that but, i think that Our Lord deserve a more spiritual and formal kind of worship). The priest left the Sanctuary to give the kiss of peace which is against canon law. Also, the Tabernacle was put in a dark spot of the church far from the sanctuary, which on top of my head is not ideal. Like my mother told me: "The church dont have any choice to adapt to the peoples if they want to keep them..." which is totally unnaceptable in my opinion.

With the knowledge that i have acquired during the last few month IRW different style of worship in Christendom, the RCC is closer to Protestanism worship now.

Few years ago when i was delivering furnitures in downtown Montréal, i steped into what was looking like a 1750's ish church from the outside but inside it was a condo appartments.

Dont get me wrong, there is some devouted RC still in Québec but they are expected to slowly disappear since that churches are closing more often nowadays.

Roman Catholicism, from my personnal experience, is only a cultural tag.

First, I want to thank for your informative reply. Second, what is happening in Quebec in terms of the Faith and the Church is unfortunate, and makes me wonder, why is it somehow easy for predominant Catholic countries/provinces/states to go that road of becoming culturally Catholic.

Some people like to blame it on Vatican II, but the fact is that it seems with or without Vatican II, it was going to happen. For example, France became secular way before the 1960s. Other Christian denominations also started to suffer after the 1960s. Which shows that the society and culture were changing anyway. I echo what Mark Massa said, that Vatican II prevented the Church from losing even more than what lost already.

Yes, it's definitely an overcorrection (one extreme breeds the opposite). This seems to happen often. I believe it is only a matter of time before Saudi Arabia goes secular and only culturally Muslim; even though it is now Wahhabi. There is a lot of unrest and resentment bubbling beneath the surface toward the royal family and the religious establishment. Right now it hasn't come to a head yet because people are so dependent on oil money, but what happens when that dries up, as it most surely will? There is already an underground atheist Saudi scene, which currently finds its outlet via anonymous Internet posting. An estimated 5% of Saudis are atheist and that number is only expected to increase. (And then, of course, there is the crypto-Christian "Insider Movement", although how many adherents that movement has is anybody's guess).

The same thing could potentially happen in other Middle Eastern countries too, but for a number of reasons I believe Saudi Arabia is the most likely candidate to experience such a "quiet" (or not-so-quiet) revolution. But Qatar is potentially another, given how much of the population is made up of non-Muslim foreigners who are brought there as de facto serfs or slaves. Qatar is a bit like the Saint-Domingue of the modern Middle East.

I suspect Egypt too, I read in the N.Y. times that after what happened with the Muslim Brotherhood, a lot of younger folks in Egypy started questioning their faith, with the muslim authoties at Al-Azhar University having to address the rise of Atheism. While you bring up good points about Saudi Arabia, I can't imagine the Royal family, and the Conservative Whabbi clerics allowing any secularization, since it would be a end to their regime. Didn't they declare Atheism as terrorism a while back?

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2016, 08:32:10 AM »
Quote
Everyone else thinks it's disgusting, and it will never be legalized here in the US because children CANNOT give informed consent under the law, just like animals can't
There are now some of the same people who advocated for "gay marriage" are now advocating for polygamy and pedophilia. Its been in the news recently.

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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2016, 09:17:32 AM »
Quote
Why don't you worry about your own sins, Charles, and let God judge me?
I do worry about my my own sins, I just don't feel the need to broadcast them  in some vain attempt to "justify" them in any way. And I'm not judging you. I'll let Sacred Scripture, Church Doctrine and the examination of your own conscience take care of that.

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In the end of the day, you're not my priest, you're not the Pope and you're not GOD
True, but I certainly don't want to be an accessory to any of your sins by being silent.

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. I'm sure you're not sinless,
I am the worst of sinners, I can assure.

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so worry about your own salvation and let me worry about mine :)
Am i not my brother's keeper? ;)

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Now after you ruined the thread and turned it into a discussion about pedophilia, would you please answer the question asked in the original post.


Quote
Why are some of the most Catholic countries and provinces in the world usually are the most secular and the least to tolerate the Catholic Church's views?
Because they are no longer some of the most Catholic countries anymore.

Your charts mean nothing of people who have basically turned their backs to the Bride of Christ.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2016, 09:24:10 AM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(

I'm not surprised then. This supports what I read and posted here previously that using Catholic Mass elements in a blasphemous language in Quebec was the people's way of expressing their frustration with how the clergy controlled their lives. The French Revolution was also the result of such religious dictatorship.
Yea, and we see how all that worked out;

The Reign of Terror (6 September 1793 – 28 July 1794),[1] also known as The Terror (French: la Terreur), was a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution, incited by conflict between two rival political factions, the Girondins and The Mountain, and marked by mass executions of "enemies of the revolution". The death toll ranged in the tens of thousands, with 16,594 executed by guillotine (2,639 in Paris),[2] and another 25,000 in summary executions acrososs France
[/b]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror


« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 09:24:55 AM by Charles Martel »
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2016, 09:40:46 AM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(
I'm just curious in what way?

I mean, Cananda seems to have their own version of a secular, politically correct dictatorship these days.

It always seems to those who are quick to judge the Church are all too willing to serve the state as master anyway.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2016, 10:06:44 AM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood.

You had better have some actual EVIDENCE to back up such an assertion.

Decades of systemic coverups and complicity at the highest levels aren't enough for you?

If it were socially acceptable then why has the RC paid out billions to vicitms and defrocked priests for it?  Now, the RC may be inept in dealing with this matter, but that is not the same as stating that pedophilia is "socially acceptable".
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Offline benjohn146

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2016, 10:10:48 AM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(
I'm just curious in what way?

I mean, Cananda seems to have their own version of a secular, politically correct dictatorship these days.

It always seems to those who are quick to judge the Church are all too willing to serve the state as master anyway.

Please, understand that those who were raped, beaten and mentally traumatized by the RCC in Québec they never had been properly taught the Love and Mercy of Our Lord. The Faith has been pressed upon them by disregarding their free will. Like the Church is teaching: God gave us free will so we can freely and genuinly decided to follow Christ out of agape. Forced faith is slavery, have a look at the present Middle East situation.

Quote
It always seems to those who are quick to judge the Church are all too willing to serve the state as master anyway.

It always seem that those who are quick to judge those who judge the church are all too willing to serve the church instead of having compassion for those who have suffered, been raped and traumatized by the members of that church.

I do not blame these victims to turn their hope toward a more merciful form of state (i.e. the local government, the state) then the state of the church.

Please do not judge them my friend, be merciful.
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2016, 10:28:37 AM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2016, 10:30:23 AM »
Nice way to deflect. The fact is, the only place pedophilia is "socially acceptable" is within the Roman priesthood.

You had better have some actual EVIDENCE to back up such an assertion.

Decades of systemic coverups and complicity at the highest levels aren't enough for you?

If it were socially acceptable then why has the RC paid out billions to vicitms and defrocked priests for it? 

Because they were forced to do so by prosecutions, lawsuits, and public scandal. Any time victims tried to resolve it within the church, they got burned. Clearly the hierarchy has no problem with pedophilia until it costs them money and jailtime. 
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2016, 10:38:25 AM »
The fact that the crimes were hidden and covered up means by definition that they were not socially acceptable. They may have been odious, hypocritical and evil, but it still wasn't "socially acceptable". Socially acceptable is something like abortion which is performed out in the open without the need for subterfuge. If priests were defiling children on the altar in the middle of mass as a matter of course, then you would have a valid argument for social acceptability. To my knowledge, it did not reach that level of prevelance.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #75 on: April 05, 2016, 10:41:22 AM »
Key words: "within the priesthood."
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Offline benjohn146

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2016, 10:47:17 AM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

In part, yes.

There was also orphans and non-orphans Quebecers that suffered rapes. These folks today are either diagnosed with post-traumatic disorders and still suffering from these torments or that committed suicide overwhelmed by the pain. They couldnt find any solace in the RCC(because most of the other christian denominations were unknown at the time and still are today in Québec) because the trust wasnt there anymore so the other option was that they turned away from God and went toward the state to help them. How can we blame the victims?
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Offline WPM

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #77 on: April 05, 2016, 10:57:35 AM »
Yeah the pedophile thing used to be an accusation started out as a joke on the Internet.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2016, 11:03:23 AM »
Key words: "within the priesthood."
Did priests get together and share tales of molestation? Were there "Child raping in a Post-Vatican II World" seminars at priest get togethers? Were there fantasy child-molestation leagues that priests got together and drafted their favorite children on draft day?
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2016, 11:10:15 AM »
Key words: "within the priesthood."
Did priests get together and share tales of molestation? Were there "Child raping in a Post-Vatican II World" seminars at priest get togethers? Were there fantasy child-molestation leagues that priests got together and drafted their favorite children on draft day?

I couldn't tell you what conversations they had with one another, but actions speak louder, as they say, and it's well known now that in many instances priests witnessed, cooperated, and abetted one another in these acts. Isolation seems to have been a friend- the stories coming out of Alaska are absolutely horrifying, for instance, and just fall short of a Sadean fantasy.
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Offline biro

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #80 on: April 05, 2016, 11:15:04 AM »
Yeah the pedophile thing used to be an accusation started out as a joke on the Internet.

No, it was real.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #81 on: April 05, 2016, 11:16:29 AM »
While there were instances of priests aiding and abetting one another, the far more prevalent was as you said, isolation was a friend. In most situations, it was hidden by the priest and covered up by the bishop. I'm not excusing their actions, but it wasn't socially acceptable any more than the fact that sometimes murderers have accomplices as well. The stories are horrific, and the people responsible need to be held criminally responsible. The system that was lax enough to not prevent these things from happening, needs to be changed, but none of that means it was socially acceptable.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2016, 11:16:47 AM »
Yeah the pedophile thing used to be an accusation started out as a joke on the Internet.

No, it was real.

In Granbury TX, nothing is real.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2016, 11:28:13 AM »
Yeah the pedophile thing used to be an accusation started out as a joke on the Internet.

No, it was real.

What do you mean? There are kids but not here.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 11:28:52 AM by WPM »
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2016, 12:09:08 PM »
Quote
Please, understand that those who were raped, beaten and mentally traumatized by the RCC in Québec they never had been properly taught the Love and Mercy of Our Lord
You mean by some rogue priests, not the Institutional Church itself I presume. But either way, it's a horrible situation.

Quote
The Faith has been pressed upon them by disregarding their free will.
Yes, that's never good. I just have a hard time that, that kind of thinking is systemic within the Church at all levels. I was raised and schooled in the Faith by some pretty hard core traditional priests and nuns, they were very committed and sincere in teaching us the Faith, but I never felt as if they were disregarding my free will. Remember children can be rebellious as it is, we have to consider all the factors invovled here.

Quote
Like the Church is teaching: God gave us free will so we can freely and genuinly decided to follow Christ out of agape.
Yes, but when we use that free will into the rebellious "I Will" like the Evil One, then we start to run into problems.

Quote
Forced faith is slavery,
I agree. But I have never seen faith forced upon anyone. In my expierence anyway. And I truly don't believe that is the mission of the Church, regardless of a few overzealous clergy men and women.

Quote
have a look at the present Middle East situation.
Surely you can't compare the RCC to radical Islam.

Quote
It always seem that those who are quick to judge those who judge the church are all too willing to serve the church instead of having compassion for those who have suffered, been raped and traumatized by the members of that church.
You (or they?)have my sympathies and support . Believe me, I'm all for swift and lasting justice against anyone that would violate the trust of a child, I'm very outspoken on here about this, I would have no problem meeting out the death penalty for the child-rapists. Bet you that would stop it in a hurry. But I'm just not ready to condemn a 2000yr old institution over the actions of a few sexual deviants or even  a few within the  system that would try and "protect" them.

Quote
I do not blame these victims to turn their hope toward a more merciful form of state (i.e. the local government, the state) then the state of the church.
Mercy for children that have been abused by a state that arbitrarily supports the murder of them? But I understand the potential  fustration and desperation of thier situation somethimes.

Quote
Please do not judge them my friend, be merciful.
I don't and I am.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #85 on: April 05, 2016, 12:30:25 PM »
I don't think it means condemning the entire RCC itself, just the way in which it's run. Changing the constitution of a country does not mean the end of that country's history, just the beginning of a new phase of it. I would presume even the most hardcore traditionalist thanks God that the Institutional Church was able to shift gears following the enormities of the Borgia Popes or the Avignon Papacy, for example.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 12:32:47 PM by Volnutt »
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2016, 01:27:27 PM »
Quote
Quote
Please, understand that those who were raped, beaten and mentally traumatized by the RCC in Québec they never had been properly taught the Love and Mercy of Our Lord
You mean by some rogue priests, not the Institutional Church itself I presume. But either way, it's a horrible situation.

Some rogues Saracens are making a bad reputation of the "Institutional" (i.e. mainstream) Islam. Of course that these priests and nuns were not worthy of the clerical duties but at that time the RCC didnt do much either to address the situation. They have indeed turn toward the government to have help.

Quote
Quote
The Faith has been pressed upon them by disregarding their free will.
Yes, that's never good. I just have a hard time that, that kind of thinking is systemic within the Church at all levels. I was raised and schooled in the Faith by some pretty hard core traditional priests and nuns, they were very committed and sincere in teaching us the Faith, but I never felt as if they were disregarding my free will. Remember children can be rebellious as it is, we have to consider all the factors invovled here.

Rebellion toward the clergy or the church is justifying the raping and a beating of a child? Even if we dont have all the factors, i am quite convinced that regardless of the factors it does not justify their actions. Blessed are you that have been in the good cares of good priests and nuns. Praise be to God!

Quote
Quote
Like the Church is teaching: God gave us free will so we can freely and genuinly decided to follow Christ out of agape.
Yes, but when we use that free will into the rebellious "I Will" like the Evil One, then we start to run into problems.

Yes! So true! I remember the other day when my 5 and 7 years old children does have the rational and the wisdom that is needed to discern when Satan is paying them a visit and then decide to not obey me! With the knowledge that these kids have now with what they went through, they can say indeed that they have seen the "Evil One" acting through these priests and nuns.

Quote
Quote
Forced faith is slavery,
I agree. But I have never seen faith forced upon anyone. In my expierence anyway. And I truly don't believe that is the mission of the Church, regardless of a few overzealous clergy men and women.

I can confirm you that Faith has been imposed to these children back in the 50's/60's. These clerics didnt understand their mission indeed.

Quote
Quote
have a look at the present Middle East situation.
Surely you can't compare the RCC to radical Islam.
I do. To a lower extent of course. Even if it isnt related with this topic, we can relate to the Inquisition back in the Middle age. But if we come back to a 50's/60's western modern civilized perspective, it was quite radical. Beating and raping occurred regularly exactly like one of my brother-in-arms witness from is own eyes when he was deployed in Afghanistan, one of the land sharing a culture from radical Islam.

Quote
Quote
It always seem that those who are quick to judge those who judge the church are all too willing to serve the church instead of having compassion for those who have suffered, been raped and traumatized by the members of that church.
You (or they?)have my sympathies and support . Believe me, I'm all for swift and lasting justice against anyone that would violate the trust of a child, I'm very outspoken on here about this, I would have no problem meeting out the death penalty for the child-rapists. Bet you that would stop it in a hurry. But I'm just not ready to condemn a 2000yr old institution over the actions of a few sexual deviants or even  a few within the  system that would try and "protect" them.

"Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy." (Matthew 5:7)
"Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:7)
Death penalty is not the solution, my friend... The Law of Moses has been fulfilled. Let God judge them in His Mercy.

I am not condemning the 2000yrs old institution, only the 100-120yrs institution of the RCC in Québec/Lower Canada.


Quote
Quote
I do not blame these victims to turn their hope toward a more merciful form of state (i.e. the local government, the state) then the state of the church.
Mercy for children that have been abused by a state that arbitrarily supports the murder of them? But I understand the potential  fustration and desperation of thier situation somethimes.

That state has changed a few times since then, now this state is bringing those rogue clergymen in front of justice. Today the state is helping the victims. I am not worthy to judges why the victims have turned their back to the RCC. Perhaps some of them only turned their back to the RCC but kept their eyes and hearts toward the Lord.

Quote
Please do not judge them my friend, be merciful.
I don't and I am.

I don't think it means condemning the entire RCC itself, just the way in which it's run. Changing the constitution of a country does not mean the end of that country's history, just the beginning of a new phase of it. I would presume even the most hardcore traditionalist thanks God that the Institutional Church was able to shift gears following the enormities of the Borgia Popes or the Avignon Papacy, for example.

Volnutt exactly pin point my opinion on the subject.

What i would like to emphases that i dont condemn the entire RCC itself. Only the RCC in Québec/Lower Canada in the last 100-120yrs.
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline biro

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2016, 01:36:40 PM »
Yeah the pedophile thing used to be an accusation started out as a joke on the Internet.

No, it was real.

What do you mean? There are kids but not here.

Yes, there are.

Why do you deny reality?
My only weakness is, well, never mind

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #88 on: April 05, 2016, 01:38:52 PM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(

I'm not surprised then. This supports what I read and posted here previously that using Catholic Mass elements in a blasphemous language in Quebec was the people's way of expressing their frustration with how the clergy controlled their lives. The French Revolution was also the result of such religious dictatorship.
Yea, and we see how all that worked out;

The Reign of Terror (6 September 1793 – 28 July 1794),[1] also known as The Terror (French: la Terreur), was a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution, incited by conflict between two rival political factions, the Girondins and The Mountain, and marked by mass executions of "enemies of the revolution". The death toll ranged in the tens of thousands, with 16,594 executed by guillotine (2,639 in Paris),[2] and another 25,000 in summary executions acrososs France
[/b]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror




That is exactly what I meant. When the Church abuse its power and gets too comfortable with the corrupt leaders of a country, when the revolution takes place, revenge will fall upon her.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #89 on: April 05, 2016, 01:46:54 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

The Catholic Church clergy and nuns had a great deal to do with the abuse committed against First Nations Peoples. They took the children away from their families, they put them in residential schools, tried to make them forget about their own culture and heritage. They raped them, beat them, even some killed them, and that continued for almost a whole century. Today, I myself see the consequences of that genocide every day. All that I think about is how could anyone do such thing in the name of Christ? How could any true Catholic think that taking children away from their families, raping them, beating them, and sometimes killing them is what Christ intended when he said, "Go and baptize all nations"?!


P.S. As a Catholic, I'm more inclined to criticise my own Church when there is a need for it. I love the Catholic Church and I'm proud to be a member of. Therefore, when I see certain people try and abuse the Church for their own Traditionalist/Conservative/Liberal/Socialist agenda, I can't help but point out their wrong. Even though I'm gay and liberal, I oppose any attempt by both sides to use the Church for their own benefit.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 01:52:18 PM by Raylight »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #90 on: April 05, 2016, 02:06:09 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

The Catholic Church clergy and nuns had a great deal to do with the abuse committed against First Nations Peoples. They took the children away from their families, they put them in residential schools, tried to make them forget about their own culture and heritage. They raped them, beat them, even some killed them, and that continued for almost a whole century. Today, I myself see the consequences of that genocide every day. All that I think about is how could anyone do such thing in the name of Christ? How could any true Catholic think that taking children away from their families, raping them, beating them, and sometimes killing them is what Christ intended when he said, "Go and baptize all nations"?!


P.S. As a Catholic, I'm more inclined to criticise my own Church when there is a need for it. I love the Catholic Church and I'm proud to be a member of. Therefore, when I see certain people try and abuse the Church for their own Traditionalist/Conservative/Liberal/Socialist agenda, I can't help but point out their wrong. Even though I'm gay and liberal, I oppose any attempt by both sides to use the Church for their own benefit.
Do they call themselves that?
God bless!

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #91 on: April 05, 2016, 02:24:45 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

The Catholic Church clergy and nuns had a great deal to do with the abuse committed against First Nations Peoples. They took the children away from their families, they put them in residential schools, tried to make them forget about their own culture and heritage. They raped them, beat them, even some killed them, and that continued for almost a whole century. Today, I myself see the consequences of that genocide every day. All that I think about is how could anyone do such thing in the name of Christ? How could any true Catholic think that taking children away from their families, raping them, beating them, and sometimes killing them is what Christ intended when he said, "Go and baptize all nations"?!


P.S. As a Catholic, I'm more inclined to criticise my own Church when there is a need for it. I love the Catholic Church and I'm proud to be a member of. Therefore, when I see certain people try and abuse the Church for their own Traditionalist/Conservative/Liberal/Socialist agenda, I can't help but point out their wrong. Even though I'm gay and liberal, I oppose any attempt by both sides to use the Church for their own benefit.
Do they call themselves that?

Yes, and they are used by the government of Canada as well. The term Indians is actually considered racist. They are not "Indians". That is a term used by the early European colonists based on ignorance and/or confusion.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #92 on: April 05, 2016, 02:30:39 PM »
Indigenous persons that I have met normally referred to themselves as Native Americans when speaking as a whole and more often to their specific people group such as Sioux, Choctaw, Crow, etc. I've never heard them refer to themselves as Aboriginal or First Nations People. Indigenous is usually legal term as opposed to a self-referencing term. Perhaps Canada is different.
God bless!

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #93 on: April 05, 2016, 02:37:38 PM »
Indigenous persons that I have met normally referred to themselves as Native Americans when speaking as a whole and more often to their specific people group such as Sioux, Choctaw, Crow, etc. I've never heard them refer to themselves as Aboriginal or First Nations People. Indigenous is usually legal term as opposed to a self-referencing term. Perhaps Canada is different.

You can use that term as well. But I rarely or never heard someone using it here. Canada is different than America is so many ways, and this is probably one of them. ;)

Offline Orest

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #94 on: April 05, 2016, 02:53:18 PM »
I am Canadian: the terms used in Canada are: First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal.

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #95 on: April 05, 2016, 02:54:50 PM »
Bon, bon, bon... (Well, well, well...) As a proud Québécois, i will step in to clarify some misconceptions. Please, consider that the following as an "insider point of view" since that i can not back my saying with any kind of "bullet proof" facts.

Yes Québec was a fortified stronghold for the RCC at the beginning of the 1900's until Vatican2 and the peace and love movement came in during the 70's. Like my dad told me: "When we were hearing the nun knocking 3 times on the pews, it meant that we needed to kneel down...". We only have herited this cultural background from our elders.

My wife and my mother consider themselves as RC but they are denying the Trinity and there is no way that they will step in a Church. And they are not alone. When i was an atheist, my wife and I decided to baptize our children out of tradition and not because we believed. People in Québec are secular and liberal and most of them are not aware what the RCC is teaching and i am probably sure that they dont care any longer.

Last time i went i a RC parrish in Québec on my final strech as a RC, the altar table has been put aside to let the children play the Ressurection on Easter day (nothing wrong with that but, i think that Our Lord deserve a more spiritual and formal kind of worship). The priest left the Sanctuary to give the kiss of peace which is against canon law. Also, the Tabernacle was put in a dark spot of the church far from the sanctuary, which on top of my head is not ideal. Like my mother told me: "The church dont have any choice to adapt to the peoples if they want to keep them..." which is totally unnaceptable in my opinion.

With the knowledge that i have acquired during the last few month IRW different style of worship in Christendom, the RCC is closer to Protestanism worship now.

Few years ago when i was delivering furnitures in downtown Montréal, i steped into what was looking like a 1750's ish church from the outside but inside it was a condo appartments.

Dont get me wrong, there is some devouted RC still in Québec but they are expected to slowly disappear since that churches are closing more often nowadays.

Roman Catholicism, from my personnal experience, is only a cultural tag.

First, I want to thank for your informative reply. Second, what is happening in Quebec in terms of the Faith and the Church is unfortunate, and makes me wonder, why is it somehow easy for predominant Catholic countries/provinces/states to go that road of becoming culturally Catholic.

Some people like to blame it on Vatican II, but the fact is that it seems with or without Vatican II, it was going to happen. For example, France became secular way before the 1960s. Other Christian denominations also started to suffer after the 1960s. Which shows that the society and culture were changing anyway. I echo what Mark Massa said, that Vatican II prevented the Church from losing even more than what lost already.

Yes, it's definitely an overcorrection (one extreme breeds the opposite). This seems to happen often. I believe it is only a matter of time before Saudi Arabia goes secular and only culturally Muslim; even though it is now Wahhabi. There is a lot of unrest and resentment bubbling beneath the surface toward the royal family and the religious establishment. Right now it hasn't come to a head yet because people are so dependent on oil money, but what happens when that dries up, as it most surely will? There is already an underground atheist Saudi scene, which currently finds its outlet via anonymous Internet posting. An estimated 5% of Saudis are atheist and that number is only expected to increase. (And then, of course, there is the crypto-Christian "Insider Movement", although how many adherents that movement has is anybody's guess).

The same thing could potentially happen in other Middle Eastern countries too, but for a number of reasons I believe Saudi Arabia is the most likely candidate to experience such a "quiet" (or not-so-quiet) revolution. But Qatar is potentially another, given how much of the population is made up of non-Muslim foreigners who are brought there as de facto serfs or slaves. Qatar is a bit like the Saint-Domingue of the modern Middle East.

I suspect Egypt too, I read in the N.Y. times that after what happened with the Muslim Brotherhood, a lot of younger folks in Egypy started questioning their faith, with the muslim authoties at Al-Azhar University having to address the rise of Atheism. While you bring up good points about Saudi Arabia, I can't imagine the Royal family, and the Conservative Whabbi clerics allowing any secularization, since it would be a end to their regime. Didn't they declare Atheism as terrorism a while back?

Yes, they did! And that is one of the signs that they are getting scared. History teaches us something about that. When authorities go to the extreme in their persecution of a certain group of people, that is when you know they're panicking and you know the future belongs to the persecuted people. As Christians, we know that fact by reading about the Early Church and how they faced a great deal of persecution and false accusations as soon as it became clear for the Roman Authority that they are gaining large numbers of converts.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #96 on: April 05, 2016, 03:02:11 PM »
Quote
Quote
Please, understand that those who were raped, beaten and mentally traumatized by the RCC in Québec they never had been properly taught the Love and Mercy of Our Lord
You mean by some rogue priests, not the Institutional Church itself I presume. But either way, it's a horrible situation.

Some rogues Saracens are making a bad reputation of the "Institutional" (i.e. mainstream) Islam. Of course that these priests and nuns were not worthy of the clerical duties but at that time the RCC didnt do much either to address the situation. They have indeed turn toward the government to have help.

Quote
Quote
The Faith has been pressed upon them by disregarding their free will.
Yes, that's never good. I just have a hard time that, that kind of thinking is systemic within the Church at all levels. I was raised and schooled in the Faith by some pretty hard core traditional priests and nuns, they were very committed and sincere in teaching us the Faith, but I never felt as if they were disregarding my free will. Remember children can be rebellious as it is, we have to consider all the factors invovled here.

Rebellion toward the clergy or the church is justifying the raping and a beating of a child? Even if we dont have all the factors, i am quite convinced that regardless of the factors it does not justify their actions. Blessed are you that have been in the good cares of good priests and nuns. Praise be to God!

Quote
Quote
Like the Church is teaching: God gave us free will so we can freely and genuinly decided to follow Christ out of agape.
Yes, but when we use that free will into the rebellious "I Will" like the Evil One, then we start to run into problems.

Yes! So true! I remember the other day when my 5 and 7 years old children does have the rational and the wisdom that is needed to discern when Satan is paying them a visit and then decide to not obey me! With the knowledge that these kids have now with what they went through, they can say indeed that they have seen the "Evil One" acting through these priests and nuns.

Quote
Quote
Forced faith is slavery,
I agree. But I have never seen faith forced upon anyone. In my expierence anyway. And I truly don't believe that is the mission of the Church, regardless of a few overzealous clergy men and women.

I can confirm you that Faith has been imposed to these children back in the 50's/60's. These clerics didnt understand their mission indeed.

Quote
Quote
have a look at the present Middle East situation.
Surely you can't compare the RCC to radical Islam.
I do. To a lower extent of course. Even if it isnt related with this topic, we can relate to the Inquisition back in the Middle age. But if we come back to a 50's/60's western modern civilized perspective, it was quite radical. Beating and raping occurred regularly exactly like one of my brother-in-arms witness from is own eyes when he was deployed in Afghanistan, one of the land sharing a culture from radical Islam.

Quote
Quote
It always seem that those who are quick to judge those who judge the church are all too willing to serve the church instead of having compassion for those who have suffered, been raped and traumatized by the members of that church.
You (or they?)have my sympathies and support . Believe me, I'm all for swift and lasting justice against anyone that would violate the trust of a child, I'm very outspoken on here about this, I would have no problem meeting out the death penalty for the child-rapists. Bet you that would stop it in a hurry. But I'm just not ready to condemn a 2000yr old institution over the actions of a few sexual deviants or even  a few within the  system that would try and "protect" them.

"Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy." (Matthew 5:7)
"Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:7)
Death penalty is not the solution, my friend... The Law of Moses has been fulfilled. Let God judge them in His Mercy.

I am not condemning the 2000yrs old institution, only the 100-120yrs institution of the RCC in Québec/Lower Canada.


Quote
Quote
I do not blame these victims to turn their hope toward a more merciful form of state (i.e. the local government, the state) then the state of the church.
Mercy for children that have been abused by a state that arbitrarily supports the murder of them? But I understand the potential  fustration and desperation of thier situation somethimes.

That state has changed a few times since then, now this state is bringing those rogue clergymen in front of justice. Today the state is helping the victims. I am not worthy to judges why the victims have turned their back to the RCC. Perhaps some of them only turned their back to the RCC but kept their eyes and hearts toward the Lord.

Quote
Please do not judge them my friend, be merciful.
I don't and I am.

I don't think it means condemning the entire RCC itself, just the way in which it's run. Changing the constitution of a country does not mean the end of that country's history, just the beginning of a new phase of it. I would presume even the most hardcore traditionalist thanks God that the Institutional Church was able to shift gears following the enormities of the Borgia Popes or the Avignon Papacy, for example.

Volnutt exactly pin point my opinion on the subject.

What i would like to emphases that i dont condemn the entire RCC itself. Only the RCC in Québec/Lower Canada in the last 100-120yrs.
Bennjohn I am not knowledgeable about the situation in Quebec from which you talk about, which is ironic to me because my granfather is from Montreal and was half native/French and also a devout Catholic. However, he died when I was an infant, so much of the language/culture was never passed on into my family, except for trad Catholicism. But I've only been to Montreal once and that was a long time ago, I couldn't tell you much about it except for that  Notre Dame church, the botanical gardens, Olympic stadium  (ah, actually, i've been there twice)and the old French Section.Other than that, I'm clueless about what goes on up there except for what I read about occasionaly and not nothing about the abuse of young native children by the clergy, but I don't doubt it went on. And also ironically, I work with a lot of natives from the res and never hear  them vent about the RCC, actually it's the govt they despise more than anything. They seem ambigious about Christianity many times, but many are believers and there are few that are devout Catholics. The Church and the nations have a close relationship going back a long way to the "black robes" who lives with the tribes and ministered to their physical and spiriutal needs in their attempt to convert them into the True Faith, which cost some  of them their lives, like the first North American martyrs who were savagely beaten to death for something as simple  making a sign of the cross on the children.

I know there is probably bad blood because of the scandals, which is a shame and I told you how I personally believe how they should be dealt with. But that shouldn't erase centuries of history and mutually beneficial relationshipa between the tribes and the Church. At least I hope not.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #97 on: April 05, 2016, 03:04:36 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.

The term Indians is actually considered racist.

How silly.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:07:41 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #98 on: April 05, 2016, 03:10:55 PM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(

I'm not surprised then. This supports what I read and posted here previously that using Catholic Mass elements in a blasphemous language in Quebec was the people's way of expressing their frustration with how the clergy controlled their lives. The French Revolution was also the result of such religious dictatorship.
Yea, and we see how all that worked out;

The Reign of Terror (6 September 1793 – 28 July 1794),[1] also known as The Terror (French: la Terreur), was a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution, incited by conflict between two rival political factions, the Girondins and The Mountain, and marked by mass executions of "enemies of the revolution". The death toll ranged in the tens of thousands, with 16,594 executed by guillotine (2,639 in Paris),[2] and another 25,000 in summary executions acrososs France
[/b]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror




That is exactly what I meant. When the Church abuse its power and gets too comfortable with the corrupt leaders of a country, when the revolution takes place, revenge will fall upon her.
You're not making sense here. How in the world did the Church abuse it's power in France and perpetuate the revolution? Blaming the RCC for the atrocities committed in the French Revolution makes about as much sense as blaming the Orthodox Church for abusing it's power in Russia prior to the October Revolution and being responsible for it's own abuses at the hands of the communists.

These two godless revolutions took down Christianity in the East and West and you're saying they deserved it?
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline benjohn146

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #99 on: April 05, 2016, 03:18:40 PM »
Quote
I know there is probably bad blood because of the scandals, which is a shame and I told you how I personally believe how they should be dealt with. But that shouldn't erase centuries of history and mutually beneficial relationshipa between the tribes and the Church. At least I hope not.

I hope not too my friend, lets pray to the Lord.
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline biro

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #100 on: April 05, 2016, 03:22:11 PM »
Quote
Everyone else thinks it's disgusting, and it will never be legalized here in the US because children CANNOT give informed consent under the law, just like animals can't
There are now some of the same people who advocated for "gay marriage" are now advocating for polygamy and pedophilia. Its been in the news recently.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #101 on: April 05, 2016, 03:23:52 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.

The term Indians is actually considered racist.

How silly.

For us in Canada, It is a fact. Indians are the people who come from India. Why should First Nations People be called Indians just because the early European colonists were so ignorant.

Christians in the Middle East refuse to be called "Nasara" because it is an inaccurate term used in the Quran to describe Christians. Some Fatwas from several Muslims clerics said that calling Christians "Christians" by Muslims is forbidden because that means they are followers of Jesus Christ, which the Quran doesn't believe we are actually following the "real" Jesus.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #102 on: April 05, 2016, 03:24:06 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.


Call them what they want to be called, in their own country? How dare he?
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #103 on: April 05, 2016, 03:25:05 PM »
Quote
It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.
Yea, it becomes redundant after a while.

Quote
The term Indians is actually considered racist.
I guess it's all in context. Dots or feathers? ;D

Reminds me of a funny incident from many yrs ago.

Years ago I was with a native guy who was making a purchase from a hindu man, but when he went to pay, he told the hindu " I don't have to pay any tax, I'm an Indian! Then hindu guy smiled, looked him in the eye and said "Me too!"  ;) "And your gonna pay the tax!" lol! ;D


True story.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:25:21 PM by Charles Martel »
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #104 on: April 05, 2016, 03:27:24 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.


Call them what they want to be called.

That's not how it works.

I want to be called Your Highness from now on.

Let's call a spade a spade.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:28:34 PM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #105 on: April 05, 2016, 03:29:59 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.


Call them what they want to be called, in their own country? How dare he?

Cyrillic is a very reasonable man whom I respect and admire, and it surprises me that he thinks what I said is silly. Should we call Black people the word "N"? Should we call homosexuals the word "F"?  It is a fact as well that First Nations Peoples are not Indians nor are they from India, so calling them "Indians" is idiotic. Should we call the Chinese, Swedish?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:32:32 PM by Raylight »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2016, 03:31:04 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.


Call them what they want to be called, in their own country? How dare he?

Cyrillic is a very reasonable man whom I respect and admire, and it surprises me that he thinks what I said is silly. Should we call Blam people the word "N"? Should we call homosexuals the word "F"?  It is a fact as well that First Nations Peoples are not Indians nor are they from India, so calling them "Indians" is idiotic. Should we call the Chinese, Swedish?

Oh, he'll come up with a reason.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #107 on: April 05, 2016, 03:31:47 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.


Call them what they want to be called, in their own country? How dare he?

Cyrillic is a very reasonable man whom I respect and admire, and it surprises me that he thinks what I said is silly. Should we call Blam people the word "N"? Should we call homosexuals the word "F"?

The difference between those words and Indian is that Indian isn't meant as an insult.

Should we call the Chinese, Swedish?

If they've been called Swedes for centuries and everyone knows what you're talking about, why not?

'Should we call the Chinese Chinamen?' is a more apt comparison. I'd say we should.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:34:52 PM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #108 on: April 05, 2016, 03:36:19 PM »
Is this about the schools for Indians?

We don't use the term "Indians" here.  The correct term is "First Nations Peoples, Indigenous, or Aboriginal" .

It's too tiresome to keep up with the euphemism carousel.


Call them what they want to be called, in their own country? How dare he?

Cyrillic is a very reasonable man whom I respect and admire, and it surprises me that he thinks what I said is silly. Should we call Blam people the word "N"? Should we call homosexuals the word "F"?

The difference between those words and Indian is that Indian isn't meant as an insult.

That may be true, but today it is used as an insult actually. It is not like the First Nations came up one day and said, "yeah about that, we don't like it". Some ignorant racists started using that term "Indian" as an insult, and therefore rarely does someone use that term today without intending to insult people.

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #109 on: April 05, 2016, 03:37:45 PM »
That may be true, but today it is used as an insult actually. It is not like the First Nations came up one day and said, "yeah about that, we don't like it". Some ignorant racists started using that term "Indian" as an insult, and therefore rarely does someone use that term today without intending to insult people.

What if people would shout 'Canadian' at you, or 'Dutchman' at me, in order to insult us. We'd laugh and shrug it off, wouldn't we? Banning words because the wrong people use them in the wrong way is nonsensical and gives them way more power than they should.

Would we have to change the name again if people were to use 'indiginous' or 'first nation' as an insult? The answer is probably yes, considering how black citizens in the US get a new name every few years.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:42:48 PM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #110 on: April 05, 2016, 03:42:17 PM »
That may be true, but today it is used as an insult actually. It is not like the First Nations came up one day and said, "yeah about that, we don't like it". Some ignorant racists started using that term "Indian" as an insult, and therefore rarely does someone use that term today without intending to insult people.

What if people would shout 'Canadian' at you, or 'Dutchman' at me, as a way to insult us. We'd laugh and shrug it off, wouldn't we? Banning words because the wrong people use them in the wrong way is nonsensical.

We can argue about this all day long. I'm just letting you know how things are in Canada. So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here :)

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #111 on: April 05, 2016, 03:43:01 PM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(

I'm not surprised then. This supports what I read and posted here previously that using Catholic Mass elements in a blasphemous language in Quebec was the people's way of expressing their frustration with how the clergy controlled their lives. The French Revolution was also the result of such religious dictatorship.
Yea, and we see how all that worked out;

The Reign of Terror (6 September 1793 – 28 July 1794),[1] also known as The Terror (French: la Terreur), was a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution, incited by conflict between two rival political factions, the Girondins and The Mountain, and marked by mass executions of "enemies of the revolution". The death toll ranged in the tens of thousands, with 16,594 executed by guillotine (2,639 in Paris),[2] and another 25,000 in summary executions acrososs France
[/b]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror




That is exactly what I meant. When the Church abuse its power and gets too comfortable with the corrupt leaders of a country, when the revolution takes place, revenge will fall upon her.
You're not making sense here. How in the world did the Church abuse it's power in France and perpetuate the revolution? Blaming the RCC for the atrocities committed in the French Revolution makes about as much sense as blaming the Orthodox Church for abusing it's power in Russia prior to the October Revolution and being responsible for it's own abuses at the hands of the communists.

These two godless revolutions took down Christianity in the East and West and you're saying they deserved it?

Corrupt state churches deserve to have their toys taken away. This is not the same thing as saying that Christianity should be oppressed or that people should be killed.

That being said, it's unsurprising (not right, just unsurprising) that the French and Russians reacted violently to all religion when the Caesaropapists gave it such a bad name for so long.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #112 on: April 05, 2016, 03:43:46 PM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:44:11 PM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #113 on: April 05, 2016, 03:44:26 PM »
Unfortunately from what i have observed, the RCC in Québec abused of the authority and the power they had to turn Christianity in a state dictatorship.  :'(

I'm not surprised then. This supports what I read and posted here previously that using Catholic Mass elements in a blasphemous language in Quebec was the people's way of expressing their frustration with how the clergy controlled their lives. The French Revolution was also the result of such religious dictatorship.
Yea, and we see how all that worked out;

The Reign of Terror (6 September 1793 – 28 July 1794),[1] also known as The Terror (French: la Terreur), was a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution, incited by conflict between two rival political factions, the Girondins and The Mountain, and marked by mass executions of "enemies of the revolution". The death toll ranged in the tens of thousands, with 16,594 executed by guillotine (2,639 in Paris),[2] and another 25,000 in summary executions acrososs France
[/b]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror




That is exactly what I meant. When the Church abuse its power and gets too comfortable with the corrupt leaders of a country, when the revolution takes place, revenge will fall upon her.
You're not making sense here. How in the world did the Church abuse it's power in France and perpetuate the revolution? Blaming the RCC for the atrocities committed in the French Revolution makes about as much sense as blaming the Orthodox Church for abusing it's power in Russia prior to the October Revolution and being responsible for it's own abuses at the hands of the communists.

These two godless revolutions took down Christianity in the East and West and you're saying they deserved it?

I didn't say they deserved it. I just said that is an expected outcome when you get involved with corrupt people and forget who you really are.

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #114 on: April 05, 2016, 03:52:00 PM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?

Come on Cyrillic, you're not American, are you? That is a myth believed by some Americans in general. It is cold in winter and warm in the summer. I live in a province known for its cold winter, and during the summer, we need air conditioning even on the bus! As to the claim that Canada is "boring". That depends on what you consider boring. For me, the country is wonderful land and there are lots of things to do from coast to coast to coast. You want a taste of Europe, you go to Quebec, you want a taste of the Pacific, you go to British Columbia, you want a taste of the North Pole, you go to the Northern territories, you want a taste of the farm land and country style, you go to the prairies, if you want a taste of the industrial, flashy and busy cities, you go to Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal, and if you want a taste of the British, the Atlantic and the seafood culture, you go to the Atlantic provinces. To me, that is a lot of fun
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:53:35 PM by Raylight »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #115 on: April 05, 2016, 04:03:27 PM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?
;D

Yes. Don't believe a word those Canucks say. They just want to attract people to their frozen wasteland. There is a reason that 75% of them live within 100 miles of the US border!
God bless!

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #116 on: April 05, 2016, 04:28:11 PM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?

I heard that.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #117 on: April 05, 2016, 05:24:57 PM »
Canadians. Less fat Americans who have a strange predisposition with leaves......

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #118 on: April 05, 2016, 10:29:56 PM »
Canadians. Less fat Americans who have a strange predisposition with leaves......

PP

You're right about the less fat, but so wrong about being Americans. You guys down there are too loud, too obnoxious, too flashy, and just too much, like calm down, chill and take a pill. We're trying to sleep up in here.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 10:36:43 PM by Raylight »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #119 on: April 05, 2016, 10:34:15 PM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?
;D

Yes. Don't believe a word those Canucks say. They just want to attract people to their frozen wasteland. There is a reason that 75% of them live within 100 miles of the US border!

We live within 100 miles of your border so when you guys try to invade us, we will be right there waiting for you to kick your butt. Just like we did in 1812-1815.

Seriously, though, we live close to the south because it is too cold up there. Also, that means more nature left alone without humans corrupting it.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 10:38:56 PM by Raylight »

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #120 on: April 06, 2016, 02:26:13 AM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?
;D

Yes. Don't believe a word those Canucks say. They just want to attract people to their frozen wasteland. There is a reason that 75% of them live within 100 miles of the US border!

We live within 100 miles of your border so when you guys try to invade us, we will be right there waiting for you to kick your butt. Just like we did in 1812-1815.

Seriously, though, we live close to the south because it is too cold up there. Also, that means more nature left alone without humans corrupting it.

Other than through baking it in the sun, of course.
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Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #121 on: April 06, 2016, 08:58:21 AM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?
;D

Yes. Don't believe a word those Canucks say. They just want to attract people to their frozen wasteland. There is a reason that 75% of them live within 100 miles of the US border!

We live within 100 miles of your border so when you guys try to invade us, we will be right there waiting for you to kick your butt. Just like we did in 1812-1815.

Seriously, though, we live close to the south because it is too cold up there. Also, that means more nature left alone without humans corrupting it.
See, we are spewing tons of pollution to warm up the Great Northern Wasteland and make it inhabitable. You are welcome.
God bless!

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #122 on: April 06, 2016, 02:26:27 PM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?
;D

Yes. Don't believe a word those Canucks say. They just want to attract people to their frozen wasteland. There is a reason that 75% of them live within 100 miles of the US border!

We live within 100 miles of your border so when you guys try to invade us, we will be right there waiting for you to kick your butt. Just like we did in 1812-1815.

Seriously, though, we live close to the south because it is too cold up there. Also, that means more nature left alone without humans corrupting it.
See, we are spewing tons of pollution to warm up the Great Northern Wasteland and make it inhabitable. You are welcome.

Hahahaha, you're funny. I don't think I can say anything after what you said  ;D

Raylight

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #123 on: April 06, 2016, 02:27:45 PM »
So when you visit one day, you will be aware of how things are in here

Don't worry about that. I wouldn't know what to do or go see in Canada. Isn't it cold and boring up north?
;D

Yes. Don't believe a word those Canucks say. They just want to attract people to their frozen wasteland. There is a reason that 75% of them live within 100 miles of the US border!

We live within 100 miles of your border so when you guys try to invade us, we will be right there waiting for you to kick your butt. Just like we did in 1812-1815.

Seriously, though, we live close to the south because it is too cold up there. Also, that means more nature left alone without humans corrupting it.

Other than through baking it in the sun, of course.

That is true. But what I meant is things like building large cities, buildings, airports and things like that. I meant a nature where you can go and watch the northern lights away from the madness of the city.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 02:29:08 PM by Raylight »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
« Reply #124 on: April 07, 2016, 11:37:58 AM »
I meant a nature where you can go and watch the northern lights away from the madness of the city.


While being stalked by wind-walking cannibal demons? No thanks.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 11:38:10 AM by Iconodule »
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