Author Topic: The Ecumenical Patriarch.  (Read 7340 times)

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Offline Elisha

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Re: The Ecumenical Patriarch.
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2005, 11:37:41 AM »
I'll complain! Take Frank Griswold-- PLEASE.

Nah, why don't you just give him to the Unitarians - I'm sure they won't mind.  ÃƒÆ’‚ ;D

(not that I have any idea what Frank Griswold is all about).
« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 11:38:13 AM by Elisha »

Offline Keble

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Re: The Ecumenical Patriarch.
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2005, 12:40:48 PM »
Here is Kendal Harmon's (chief ECUSA blogger) analysis of the Exec Council response that they would too show up at the next ACC meeting (the ACC is something like the SCOBA of the Anglican communion, except it also has lay members)

and here is Griswold's. His English is painful to the ear, IMHO.

Offline JOHNYJ82

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Re: The Ecumenical Patriarch.
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2005, 01:32:35 AM »
The Ecumenical  patriarch Bartholomew I .Is a world renown figure .He is held in high esteem all over the world.He is considered a holy man of great honesty and reasonableness. He has a respected voce in world affairs.
Others who crave his position have no chance.

Offline Kosmas

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Re: The Ecumenical Patriarch.
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2005, 02:00:15 PM »

From what I got out of this post, and I may very well be wrong, you would rather see the church divided by Nationalistic Bounds than united by faith? Nationalism is never good especially in the church. Further, it would seem that your view is that the hierarchs are always right. this is totally not the case. Remember, there is no one living who does not sin. By this statement, hierarchs can be wrong just like the rest of us. To say that centralization is a bad thing and then believe that nationalism sustains the church is contradictory at its very core. You refer to the Church of Rome and being too centralized. That is exactly what we're trying to avoid. We don't want the Ecumenical Patriarch ruling over all Orthodox Churches like the Pope does to all Roman Churchs. We want to unite the American Church under an American Patriarch who will then be equal to the other patriarchs. So unity among a nation does not in this case lead to unity of a church, it simply defines the church as tied together by belief which is what we all have in common. Or nationalistic background if anything separate us. By uniting the American Orthodox Jurisdictions, we can end nationalism in the Orthodox Church once and for all!


You obviously misunderstood my point. Killing someones identity is not what Christ wanted. Rejecting someone's language and culture and expecting him or her to conform to your own language and customs is wrong, I think it is called national philetism. All I was saying is that having one single head in charge of America, North and South and expecting everyone to conform to what one Patriarch thinks the American Church should be run can be quite dangerous.  Due to the multicultural society of America, it would be very awkward to have a single head. If some day the Coptic or Oriental Churches joined us would they be forced to conform to the Eastern Orthodox Church or vice versa? would a Church using Byzantine Liturgy have to conform to the Russian Liturgy or vice versa?

A fisherman would not use the same type of bait for every type of fish. Each fish is attracted to different bait. Unity in diversity is using different bait for different fish. As St Paul writes

To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.  To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. (1 Cor 9:20-23)
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Offline observer

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Re: The Ecumenical Patriarch.
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2005, 04:50:49 PM »
One Church.  One Faith.  When will the revisionists, Nouveau Living Church-minded Orthodoxy realize that we already have liturgical unity, whiich is the only Unity.  One big Orthodoxy Corps would turn us into an eastern Vatican.  I rejoice that we can worship in any language (why should will only worship in American/English?) ;D
I don't believe for one minute you can have Unity based on secular models.  Let us unite ourselves in Christ then we will be truly united in His Holy Body.
Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)