Author Topic: Using Marijuana (weed)?  (Read 7730 times)

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Raylight

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Using Marijuana (weed)?
« on: February 04, 2016, 05:41:14 PM »
Here in Canada, many people smoke weed, some people even smoke it publicly. Our current Prime Minister promised to legalize and regulate the use of Marijuana, nevertheless, it remains illegal for now.

From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 05:45:12 PM »
lol
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Offline RobS

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 05:48:26 PM »
WWJD?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 05:52:50 PM »
From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Setting aside medical utility, I fail to see how the recreational use of marijuana does not represent a sinful indulgence in the passions.   The Ethiopian church has said as much due to the Rasta question.  I also believe it is neccessary to reject the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus and related non-Christian religions in the strongest possible way.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 05:57:46 PM »
There are a few existing threads devoted to this issue.  Why not look at those?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 05:57:57 PM by scamandrius »
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline eddybear

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 06:00:13 PM »
As Christians, we are meant to follow the law of the land, unless of course that law is contrary to the Faith. So, if weed is illegal where you live, then you shouldn't use it, end of.

If you were to live somewhere that had legalised it, then it becomes a more interesting question. There is an argument that an occasional, small amount of weed for recreational use is no different to an occasional, small amount of alcohol for recreational purposes, which is perfectly OK. However, I'm not convinced that medically it's a good idea, given the links between weed and mental illness. I certainly wouldn't advocate ever using it.

Offline WPM

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2016, 06:15:39 PM »
I personally think your better off if you quit.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 06:17:07 PM by WPM »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2016, 07:11:27 PM »
Oh, yay, another ride on the merry-go-round. Well, at least this promises to be more fun than "Reasons from the Fathers and Scriptures Why the Pope is Super Cool" version 1000.56.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2016, 09:23:41 PM »
Here in Canada, many people smoke weed, some people even smoke it publicly. Our current Prime Minister promised to legalize and regulate the use of Marijuana, nevertheless, it remains illegal for now.

From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Have you ever smoked weed?

ETA: you can PM me the answer if you like, for the sake of sensitivity.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 09:24:38 PM by Ainnir »

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2016, 10:37:54 PM »
From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Setting aside medical utility, I fail to see how the recreational use of marijuana does not represent a sinful indulgence in the passions.   The Ethiopian church has said as much due to the Rasta question.  I also believe it is neccessary to reject the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus and related non-Christian religions in the strongest possible way.

Well, then so much for the booze culture of most Orthodox groups.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2016, 11:41:06 PM »
Can you imagine Jesus smoking weed? The Apostles? St. Paisios? I can't.
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Offline TheMathematician

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2016, 11:43:39 PM »
Here in Canada, many people smoke weed, some people even smoke it publicly. Our current Prime Minister promised to legalize and regulate the use of Marijuana, nevertheless, it remains illegal for now.

From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Once it becomes legal, I believe that it would fall under the same sensibilities as alcohol, smoking, overeating and such do.

I would also imagine that restraining from use during the fasts would be critical as well

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2016, 11:52:49 PM »
From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Setting aside medical utility, I fail to see how the recreational use of marijuana does not represent a sinful indulgence in the passions.   The Ethiopian church has said as much due to the Rasta question.  I also believe it is neccessary to reject the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus and related non-Christian religions in the strongest possible way.

Well, then so much for the booze culture of most Orthodox groups.

Except there was that miracle of turning water into wine, which seems to imply an endorsement of alcohol at least in some contexts. (Don't forget church history; one of the reasons Rus' didn't become Muslim is because they didn't want to give up drinking!)

No equivalent exists for weed. Now, if instead of causing the fig tree to wither, Jesus had instead turned it into a cannabis bush, THEN maybe the Rastas might have a case.

Although, there are some historians who suggest that He may have endorsed medical (not recreational) use of cannabis. But that depends on whether "kaneh-bosm" actually was cannabis or not. The LXX uses "calamus" but calamus is also a drug.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 12:01:44 AM by Minnesotan »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2016, 11:55:32 PM »
From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Setting aside medical utility, I fail to see how the recreational use of marijuana does not represent a sinful indulgence in the passions.   The Ethiopian church has said as much due to the Rasta question.  I also believe it is neccessary to reject the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus and related non-Christian religions in the strongest possible way.

Well, then so much for the booze culture of most Orthodox groups.

Except there was that miracle of turning water into wine, which seems to imply an endorsement of alcohol at least in some contexts. (Don't forget church history; one of the reasons Rus' didn't become Muslim is because they didn't want to give up drinking!)

No equivalent exists for weed. Now, if instead of causing the fig tree to wither, Jesus had instead turned it into a cannabis bush, THEN maybe the Rastas might have a case.

I think the Greek text here as some variants which could suggest that. 8)
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2016, 11:57:50 PM »
Can you imagine Jesus smoking weed? The Apostles? St. Paisios? I can't.

I actually have imagined Jesus and the Apostles smoking weed. The blunt never got any lower and the munchies never ran out. I might have been a bit of a stoner at one time.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2016, 12:16:09 AM »
Weed outside of its medical uses is for teenagers and old people trying to feel young again.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2016, 12:37:19 AM »
From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Setting aside medical utility, I fail to see how the recreational use of marijuana does not represent a sinful indulgence in the passions.   The Ethiopian church has said as much due to the Rasta question.  I also believe it is neccessary to reject the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus and related non-Christian religions in the strongest possible way.

Well, then so much for the booze culture of most Orthodox groups.

Except there was that miracle of turning water into wine, which seems to imply an endorsement of alcohol at least in some contexts. (Don't forget church history; one of the reasons Rus' didn't become Muslim is because they didn't want to give up drinking!)

No equivalent exists for weed. Now, if instead of causing the fig tree to wither, Jesus had instead turned it into a cannabis bush, THEN maybe the Rastas might have a case.

Although, there are some historians who suggest that He may have endorsed medical (not recreational) use of cannabis. But that depends on whether "kaneh-bosm" actually was cannabis or not. The LXX uses "calamus" but calamus is also a drug.

I don't see how the intoxicating effects of alcohol are any more ethically acceptable than those of cannabis. People use both in moderation and people abuse both regularly. I don't see how it can be argued that Jesus approves the use of one and not the other without being completely arbitrary.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2016, 12:39:23 AM »
Weed outside of its medical uses is for teenagers and old people trying to feel young again.

One could dismiss alcohol in similar ways... and then get lynched at the next Russian or Greek party that they attend.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

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Offline William T

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2016, 12:55:27 AM »
Here in Canada, many people smoke weed, some people even smoke it publicly. Our current Prime Minister promised to legalize and regulate the use of Marijuana, nevertheless, it remains illegal for now.

From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

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Offline William T

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2016, 01:05:03 AM »
Weed outside of its medical uses is for teenagers and old people trying to feel young again.

One could dismiss alcohol in similar ways... and then get lynched at the next Russian or Greek party that they attend.

Volnut, I don't get what you are doing.  It seems as if you are being needlessly Socratic and passive aggressively confrontational.  If so, just put your cards on the table, there is no need to fish around like this.  And if you don't have an overall poitive point (just criticism and questioning), I really don't see your line of questioning being anything but meandering, fruitless, and causing needless bickering and making a rather simple OP a lot more complex than it ought be. 

If your main point is the question "Why beer and not pot", the answer is in fact cultural, and that is an acceptable answer in its own right.  In fact questioning like that is out of scope and a kind of "false philosophy", we can't really make such clear divisions that the intellectual likes to draw up when we talk about ethics and human action, culture, and society.  Descartes himself understood you couldn't really apply questioning like that to humanistic endeavors.  This is a different rational, and a different way to use ethics than you seem comfortable with.  Nevertheless, there you have it.  If your mother says X is OK, but Y is not...she may very well have a point, and you ought listen to her anyway in such matters during your formative years, even if you think there is a "contradiction".

And I think regardless of what your point is, there is hardly a need to promote any uncustomary drug use on a universal,  Christian, and anonymous all age forum.  That some of us come from drinking cultures is a fact of life, so yes some alcohol refences will get thrown out, but you're right those references too ought be restricted because alcohol is something that must be used responsibly if it is to be used at all, and a forum like this is no place to promote it's use.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 01:19:14 AM by William T »

Offline FinnJames

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2016, 01:13:56 AM »
It seems logical that if we are called to a life of watchfulness, repentance and doing good, then anything that clouds the mind will be detrimental whether it is sinful or not. No doubt some can drink/smoke marijuana/etc. more than others without losing control--and many of us are very good at fooling ourselves.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2016, 01:20:42 AM »
Weed outside of its medical uses is for teenagers and old people trying to feel young again.

One could dismiss alcohol in similar ways... and then get lynched at the next Russian or Greek party that they attend.

Please quit being needlessly Socratic and just put your cards on the table.  And if you don't have a point I really don't see your line of questioning being anything but meandering, fruitless, and causing needless bickering and making a rather simple OP a lot more complex than it ought be.  If your main point is the question "Why beer and not pot", the answer is in fact cultural, and that is an acceptable answer in its own right.  In fact questioning like that is out of scope and a kind of "false philosophy", we can't really make such clear divisions that the intellectual likes to draw up.  Descartes himself understood you couldn't really apply questioning like that to humanistic endeavors.  This is a different rational, and a different way to use ethics than you seem comfortable with.  Nevertheless, there you have it.  If your mother says X is OK, but Y is not...she may very well have a point, and you ought listen to her anyway in such matters during your formative years, even if you think there is a "contradiction".

And I think regardless of what your point is, there is hardly a need to promote any uncustomary drug use on a universal,  Christian, and anonymous all age forum.  That some of us come from drinking cultures is a fact of life, so yes some alcohol refences will get thrown out, but you're right those references too ought be restricted because alcohol is something that must be used responsibly if it is to be used at all, and a forum like this is no place to promote it's use.

Sorry, I thought my point was clear. Saying alcohol is allowed and not pot because of cultural reasons is an explanation, but it's not a reason for why things should be or else we just descend into arbitrariness if not hypocrisy. I neither promote nor condemn marijuana use.
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2016, 01:26:19 AM »
Here in Canada, many people smoke weed, some people even smoke it publicly. Our current Prime Minister promised to legalize and regulate the use of Marijuana, nevertheless, it remains illegal for now.

From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

I would say not. And people who do say it is sinful are generally Weberian statists of some sort. Scientific studies have shown that smoking pot before the age of 18 or so does impair the development of the brain. Aside from that risk, pot is WAYYYYYY safer to use than alcohol is. You can't overdose on pot and die. There are only two major risks with pot: a run-in with the law and developing a social addiction (not to be confused with a physical addiction) to it. I've smoked a lot of pot back many years ago, and it was a blast. I would go out hotboxing with some friends in a car and we'd all come back and raid the vending machines. I would spend at least 6 dollars or so on a bunch of Cheetos, Doritos, Gardettos, and Fanta. Then we'd head back to my place and watch some trippy anime which was all the more trippy and hilarious when we were high. About the worst experience I ever had with pot was walking down the hallway with my friend who was also high. We were going to the stairwell. And HOLY ISH it seemed like we were walking down the hallway for ever! I turned to my friend and said, "Dude, is it just me or does the hallway seem like the endless stairwell from Super Mario 64, and that we will never reach the stairs to get up to the room?" We both freaked out, but luckily we did reach those stairs.

My experience with alcohol? Well, while it does great in moderation, it is extremely bad in excess, the latter which cannot be said of weed. Excessive use of pot puts you to sleep, makes you fat, or both. As for alcohol, once I passed out drunk at a cousin's wedding reception in the front of the hall while the bride and groom were leaving. I had to go to the hospital. And another time, I woke up next to an ugly fat chick. Those were times when I had sunk to my lowest.
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Offline William T

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2016, 01:32:02 AM »
Weed outside of its medical uses is for teenagers and old people trying to feel young again.

One could dismiss alcohol in similar ways... and then get lynched at the next Russian or Greek party that they attend.

Please quit being needlessly Socratic and just put your cards on the table.  And if you don't have a point I really don't see your line of questioning being anything but meandering, fruitless, and causing needless bickering and making a rather simple OP a lot more complex than it ought be.  If your main point is the question "Why beer and not pot", the answer is in fact cultural, and that is an acceptable answer in its own right.  In fact questioning like that is out of scope and a kind of "false philosophy", we can't really make such clear divisions that the intellectual likes to draw up.  Descartes himself understood you couldn't really apply questioning like that to humanistic endeavors.  This is a different rational, and a different way to use ethics than you seem comfortable with.  Nevertheless, there you have it.  If your mother says X is OK, but Y is not...she may very well have a point, and you ought listen to her anyway in such matters during your formative years, even if you think there is a "contradiction".

And I think regardless of what your point is, there is hardly a need to promote any uncustomary drug use on a universal,  Christian, and anonymous all age forum.  That some of us come from drinking cultures is a fact of life, so yes some alcohol refences will get thrown out, but you're right those references too ought be restricted because alcohol is something that must be used responsibly if it is to be used at all, and a forum like this is no place to promote it's use.

Sorry, I thought my point was clear. Saying alcohol is allowed and not pot because of cultural reasons is an explanation, but it's not a reason for why things should be or else we just descend into arbitrariness if not hypocrisy. I neither promote nor condemn marijuana use.

It's not arbitrary.  Pot =/= Wine.  They are different.  Moreover they are things that people use and form subjective relations and valuations with...they are not large formal class aggregates (neither Russian, nor Modernity, nor wine drinking are things you can classify and class psychologize the way you want to.  Most talk about such things are poetic and informal). This has more to do with formation, and how people raise their children and interact in culture and society at large.  It's the parents and culture at large that shoulder the consequences of those actions and deal physically with the items in question, not you. The "hypocrite" or "inauthentic" label tends to fall on flat ears to me, and it belongs to the same critique as "why pot and not alcohol", it's starting you off on the wrong foot.  You can't analyze these facts the way you want to (this reminds me of your views of art and some other things as well).  We are not created in the way your method of inquiry seems to be going.  Your demand for reasons is most likely a categorical error.

But you may have a point, that the more "universal" we speak and the more we are dealing with different cultures and religions, the more cautious we should be in talking about such things.  So yes the religious, cultural, and what have you does need to be tempered in conversation the less it strays from home.  So on that level your line of reasoning may be a bit more effective, it just fails when it tries to critique the cultural groundwork on rational grounds from the outside. There is no language you can construct or deconstruct that has any real meaning at that point to gain control of those social facts.

lol, now I'm getting ultra "meta" on this thread with you.  I just noticed that you tend to do this with a kind of relentless consistency, and I think it's a big mistake.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 01:50:27 AM by William T »

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2016, 02:24:23 AM »
Every person I knew that smoked weed was/is Roman Catholic.
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2016, 04:37:32 AM »
Every person I knew that smoked weed was/is Roman Catholic.

You must have a very limited circle of acquaintances.  ;)

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2016, 05:02:48 AM »
Every person I knew that smoked weed was/is Roman Catholic.

You must have a very limited circle of acquaintances.  ;)
They can't all be Finns, unfortunately.
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Offline Svartzorn

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2016, 08:32:50 AM »
Marijuana is for dopes and retards, because that's precisely what it turns people into.
Stay of the hook for christians should not cultivate vices like those.
Besides, the "weed scene" is just terrible. I had lots of friends who smoked weed and hash and the conversations were... balls. Never heard of anything intelligent coming from them. Prolly because this stuff mentally handicaps you.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2016, 09:15:52 AM »
Here in Canada, many people smoke weed, some people even smoke it publicly. Our current Prime Minister promised to legalize and regulate the use of Marijuana, nevertheless, it remains illegal for now.

From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

I would say not. And people who do say it is sinful are generally Weberian statists of some sort. Scientific studies have shown that smoking pot before the age of 18 or so does impair the development of the brain. Aside from that risk, pot is WAYYYYYY safer to use than alcohol is. You can't overdose on pot and die. There are only two major risks with pot: a run-in with the law and developing a social addiction (not to be confused with a physical addiction) to it. I've smoked a lot of pot back many years ago, and it was a blast. I would go out hotboxing with some friends in a car and we'd all come back and raid the vending machines. I would spend at least 6 dollars or so on a bunch of Cheetos, Doritos, Gardettos, and Fanta. Then we'd head back to my place and watch some trippy anime which was all the more trippy and hilarious when we were high. About the worst experience I ever had with pot was walking down the hallway with my friend who was also high. We were going to the stairwell. And HOLY ISH it seemed like we were walking down the hallway for ever! I turned to my friend and said, "Dude, is it just me or does the hallway seem like the endless stairwell from Super Mario 64, and that we will never reach the stairs to get up to the room?" We both freaked out, but luckily we did reach those stairs.

My experience with alcohol? Well, while it does great in moderation, it is extremely bad in excess, the latter which cannot be said of weed. Excessive use of pot puts you to sleep, makes you fat, or both. As for alcohol, once I passed out drunk at a cousin's wedding reception in the front of the hall while the bride and groom were leaving. I had to go to the hospital. And another time, I woke up next to an ugly fat chick. Those were times when I had sunk to my lowest.

Those hallways!!  I just don't see how 1 hit = 1 drink as far as effects go.  I suppose part of that is the delivery method.  It's hard for me to imagine how one could exercise moderation.  But I'm highly sensitive and I don't like how antihistamines make me feel.   ;D  I wouldn't personally take advantage of the freedom to smoke pot even if every nation and priest said it was fine.  I just really prefer sobriety and I never regret it the next day.   ;)

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2016, 09:23:37 AM »
Marijuana is for dopes and retards, because that's precisely what it turns people into.
Stay of the hook for christians should not cultivate vices like those.
Besides, the "weed scene" is just terrible. I had lots of friends who smoked weed and hash and the conversations were... balls. Never heard of anything intelligent coming from them. Prolly because this stuff mentally handicaps you.

Clearly you don't use marijuana because this post doesn't contain a single word that is unintelligent or suggestive of mental handicaps or other deficiencies.  Not even one.  Good man.

Death to the world.
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2016, 09:48:11 AM »
From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Setting aside medical utility, I fail to see how the recreational use of marijuana does not represent a sinful indulgence in the passions.   The Ethiopian church has said as much due to the Rasta question.  I also believe it is neccessary to reject the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus and related non-Christian religions in the strongest possible way.

Well, then so much for the booze culture of most Orthodox groups.

Except there was that miracle of turning water into wine, which seems to imply an endorsement of alcohol at least in some contexts. (Don't forget church history; one of the reasons Rus' didn't become Muslim is because they didn't want to give up drinking!)

No equivalent exists for weed. Now, if instead of causing the fig tree to wither, Jesus had instead turned it into a cannabis bush, THEN maybe the Rastas might have a case.

Although, there are some historians who suggest that He may have endorsed medical (not recreational) use of cannabis. But that depends on whether "kaneh-bosm" actually was cannabis or not. The LXX uses "calamus" but calamus is also a drug.

I don't see how the intoxicating effects of alcohol are any more ethically acceptable than those of cannabis. People use both in moderation and people abuse both regularly. I don't see how it can be argued that Jesus approves the use of one and not the other without being completely arbitrary.

You might have a point. If you're right, then it would be weird that:

  • Rus' converted to EO (not Islam) in part because they could still drink alcohol, but
  • The OO refuses to let converts from Rastafarianism still smoke weed, despite the fact that Rastas make up a significant fraction of Jamaica's population and represent a large potential missionary constituency, just like Rus' did.

Does this reflect a difference in the EO versus the OO approach to such things (the former showing more economia), or is it more of a premodern/modern difference (the former perhaps being more easygoing than the latter)?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 09:48:27 AM by Minnesotan »
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2016, 09:53:51 AM »
Rakovsky needs to post in this thread. Posthaste.
God bless!

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2016, 10:07:56 AM »
I don't see how the intoxicating effects of alcohol are any more ethically acceptable than those of cannabis. People use both in moderation and people abuse both regularly. I don't see how it can be argued that Jesus approves the use of one and not the other without being completely arbitrary.

You might have a point. If you're right, then it would be weird that:

  • Rus' converted to EO (not Islam) in part because they could still drink alcohol, but
  • The OO refuses to let converts from Rastafarianism still smoke weed, despite the fact that Rastas make up a significant fraction of Jamaica's population and represent a large potential missionary constituency, just like Rus' did.

Does this reflect a difference in the EO versus the OO approach to such things (the former showing more economia), or is it more of a premodern/modern difference (the former perhaps being more easygoing than the latter)?

You have a knack for taking random bits of information and constructing some strange hypotheses. 

First of all, alcohol is not the same thing as marijuana and it's not useful to equate them in the comparison you are making.

Second, I don't think it's fair to characterise the conversion of Rus' as motivated by a desire to continue consuming alcohol.  Even if that anecdote is true, it's hardly the primary reason they embraced Christianity.

Third, you can't say "The OO refuses to let converts from Rastafarianism still smoke weed" because we are not a monolithic, single jurisdiction, but a communion of several, only one or two of which ever deal with converts from Rastafarianism.  That said, I don't know of any of our Churches approving the use of marijuana or other drugs, even if they accept the use of alcohol (and that varies). 

I don't know that you can conclude anything useful regarding an alleged preference for economy and/or leniency of EO vs OO based on the claims you are bringing to the table.  It's just a lot of bizarre hot air.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2016, 10:27:12 AM »
Marijuana is for dopes and retards, because that's precisely what it turns people into.
Stay of the hook for christians should not cultivate vices like those.
Besides, the "weed scene" is just terrible. I had lots of friends who smoked weed and hash and the conversations were... balls. Never heard of anything intelligent coming from them. Prolly because this stuff mentally handicaps you.

Clearly you don't use marijuana because this post doesn't contain a single word that is unintelligent or suggestive of mental handicaps or other deficiencies.  Not even one.  Good man.

Death to the world.

Guess I should correct myself, huh?!
For obviously marijuana is a good thing for christians to do. It doesn't "turn your brain into butter" and the people using it are just great. Geniouses. They never talked about invisible aliens, the evils of the illuminati, and how they have a personal shortcut for legitimate theosis through the abuse of determinate substances. Their intelligence and memory is never impaired by the use of the substance.
I said it and I'll say it again: marijuana is for retards and dopes. That is, its recreational use. Medical marijuana is just a big scam, and it's not because it's not effective.
You don't like it, well make a souflé of my words for a meal. You can have your sarcasm for dessert.
Death to the world dodos.

Offline RobS

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2016, 11:16:26 AM »
Svartzorn are you Fabio Leite's angry little brother?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 11:21:54 AM by nothing »
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— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2016, 11:28:49 AM »
If pot was legal in PA, I would probably have a toke.
God bless!

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2016, 11:39:26 AM »
If pot was legal in PA, I would probably have a toke.

I assumed you already had considering you want to dump Charlize Theron for Mor.   ;)

Sorry, I'm going to milk this for all it is worth! :D
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2016, 12:08:06 PM »
If pot was legal in PA, I would probably have a toke.

I assumed you already had considering you want to dump Charlize Theron for Mor.   ;)

Sorry, I'm going to milk this for all it is worth! :D
As a point of clarification, I don't believe I ever said I would dump Charlize Theron. I'm a very cuddly person. The more participants, the better.
God bless!

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2016, 12:08:45 PM »
Marijuana is for dopes and retards, because that's precisely what it turns people into.
Stay of the hook for christians should not cultivate vices like those.
Besides, the "weed scene" is just terrible. I had lots of friends who smoked weed and hash and the conversations were... balls. Never heard of anything intelligent coming from them. Prolly because this stuff mentally handicaps you.

Clearly you don't use marijuana because this post doesn't contain a single word that is unintelligent or suggestive of mental handicaps or other deficiencies.  Not even one.  Good man.

Death to the world.

Guess I should correct myself, huh?!
For obviously marijuana is a good thing for christians to do. It doesn't "turn your brain into butter" and the people using it are just great. Geniouses. They never talked about invisible aliens, the evils of the illuminati, and how they have a personal shortcut for legitimate theosis through the abuse of determinate substances. Their intelligence and memory is never impaired by the use of the substance.

Plenty of Orthodox come up with those and similar ideas and believe them sincerely. 

Quote
I said it and I'll say it again: marijuana is for retards and dopes. That is, its recreational use. Medical marijuana is just a big scam, and it's not because it's not effective.
You don't like it, well make a souflé of my words for a meal. You can have your sarcasm for dessert.

It's not that I don't "like" your opposition to marijuana, I just think your way of expressing it undermines it. 
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2016, 12:09:24 PM »
Svartzorn are you Fabio Leite's angry little brother?

:)
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2016, 12:10:39 PM »
If pot was legal in PA, I would probably have a toke.

I assumed you already had considering you want to dump Charlize Theron for Mor.   ;)

Sorry, I'm going to milk this for all it is worth! :D
As a point of clarification, I don't believe I ever said I would dump Charlize Theron. I'm a very cuddly person. The more participants, the better.

For the record, I would oppose kicking her out of our group as well.  I'm also cuddly.  Not everyone appreciates that, but I'm glad the three of us do.
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2016, 12:26:58 PM »
Marijuana is for dopes and retards, because that's precisely what it turns people into.
Stay of the hook for christians should not cultivate vices like those.
Besides, the "weed scene" is just terrible. I had lots of friends who smoked weed and hash and the conversations were... balls. Never heard of anything intelligent coming from them. Prolly because this stuff mentally handicaps you.

Clearly you don't use marijuana because this post doesn't contain a single word that is unintelligent or suggestive of mental handicaps or other deficiencies.  Not even one.  Good man.

Death to the world.

Guess I should correct myself, huh?!
For obviously marijuana is a good thing for christians to do. It doesn't "turn your brain into butter" and the people using it are just great. Geniouses. They never talked about invisible aliens, the evils of the illuminati, and how they have a personal shortcut for legitimate theosis through the abuse of determinate substances. Their intelligence and memory is never impaired by the use of the substance.
I said it and I'll say it again: marijuana is for retards and dopes. That is, its recreational use. Medical marijuana is just a big scam, and it's not because it's not effective.
You don't like it, well make a souflé of my words for a meal. You can have your sarcasm for dessert.

Well, I don't fit any of those descriptions. Granted, I haven't smoked in many years now. And the people I knew who smoked it as well were a mixed bunch, dumb and brilliant. You're taking shortcuts to judge people just because you don't like others vegging out on a substance, which more Americans do with a beer or glass of wine in the evening. The people who I know who smoked weed are the types of people who delivered countless babies, know four or more languages, professionally edit film for news crews and make their own movies via their own personal funding, get degrees in financing which is just as hard as getting an accounting degree in business, etc. Do you do or know how to do any of these things? If not, then I would be just as reasonable to wager that we are far smarter than you can ever hope to be. And by just as reasonable I mean not reasonable at all.
"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2016, 12:29:21 PM »
The people who I know who smoked weed are the types of people who delivered countless babies, know four or more languages, professionally edit film for news crews and make their own movies via their own personal funding, get degrees in financing which is just as hard as getting an accounting degree in business, etc.

Dopes and retards.  Balls.  Death to the world.
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2016, 12:34:01 PM »
The people who I know who smoked weed are the types of people who delivered countless babies, know four or more languages, professionally edit film for news crews and make their own movies via their own personal funding, get degrees in financing which is just as hard as getting an accounting degree in business, etc.

Dopes and retards.  Balls.  Death to the world.

lol

"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2016, 12:35:42 PM »
Weed outside of its medical uses is for teenagers and old people trying to feel young again.
"Yea, well, that's like......your opinion man"

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2016, 12:47:43 PM »
Can you imagine Jesus smoking weed? The Apostles? St. Paisios? I can't.
Why not?
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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2016, 12:51:10 PM »
Can you imagine Jesus smoking weed? The Apostles? St. Paisios? I can't.
Why not?

Lack of imagination, I would assume.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2016, 12:55:19 PM »
Can you imagine Jesus smoking weed? The Apostles? St. Paisios? I can't.
Why not?

I suppose you can imagine it in the way one can imagine gay Estonian unicorns that sweat cognac and eat Zambian kids, but beyond that, I don't think so. 
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2016, 01:47:34 PM »
Can you imagine Jesus smoking weed? The Apostles? St. Paisios? I can't.
Why not?

I suppose you can imagine it in the way one can imagine gay Estonian unicorns that sweat cognac and eat Zambian kids, but beyond that, I don't think so.
Why not?
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2016, 01:49:09 PM »
I often wonder if Peter is being intentionally or unintentionally obtuse in his questioning. This is one of those times.
God bless!

Offline Svartzorn

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2016, 01:56:41 PM »
Svartzorn are you Fabio Leite's angry little brother?

I donno that fellow. I'm just kindda angry. It's part of my personality. I'm not saying it's good.


It's not that I don't "like" your opposition to marijuana, I just think your way of expressing it undermines it.

Now we're talking.
It's probably the reason I avoid political discussions, and haven't been studying politics overall. I don't believe in dialogue, I just believe in crushing the head whoever thinks differently. That's pretty much a summary of politics to me.
I always remember an episode of this journalist who used to criticise Mussolini. He then ordered the blackshirts to deal with the guy. He was beaten to death with sticks.
Sooooo... It's unchristian and involves killing people, that's why I try to distance myself from it. Since I can't see political dissent differently, I try to distance myself overall.
So, yeah, forgive me.


Well, I don't fit any of those descriptions. Granted, I haven't smoked in many years now. And the people I knew who smoked it as well were a mixed bunch, dumb and brilliant. You're taking shortcuts to judge people just because you don't like others vegging out on a substance, which more Americans do with a beer or glass of wine in the evening. The people who I know who smoked weed are the types of people who delivered countless babies, know four or more languages, professionally edit film for news crews and make their own movies via their own personal funding, get degrees in financing which is just as hard as getting an accounting degree in business, etc. Do you do or know how to do any of these things? If not, then I would be just as reasonable to wager that we are far smarter than you can ever hope to be. And by just as reasonable I mean not reasonable at all.

I'm not taking shortcuts, it's just what I saw all the time. A bunch of hippie freaks talking nonsense. I'm not saying they're bad people, I'm saying marijuana's confirmed to impair your thinking capability, everyone knows that.
But I guess it is doing great for you guys huh?! Why stop it? I mean, screw that vice nonsense I said, it will actually help you out learning the Fathers and Church teachings. Heck, you might even be some Nobel Prize winners the way you're saying it.
But if it was all good you wouldn't have opened this thread, right? So you know it's bad for you. And for everybody.
The only way to oppose the attempts at trying to establish recreational use as something normal is with rampant opposition. There's no "middle terms", there's no "buts". This is just who I am, call me an a-hole, I recognize it.



Profanity removed by moderator  -PtA
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 01:58:45 PM by PeterTheAleut »
Death to the world dodos.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2016, 02:08:15 PM »
Well I will say this...you sure have mastered the OCnet


'please forgive me for saying this...'


and then you go on to repeat the same stuff over again...

maybe my catechism was wrong in teaching that you have to try not to keep doing the same bad things over.....and over....

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline RobS

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2016, 02:11:05 PM »
Marijuana is a peculiar subject for Peter, one I agree with his opinions on but I think his insistent "Why?" To suggest a possibility that Jesus and his disciples would smoke a doobie is wrong. Moreover these "what if" questions are meaningless.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2016, 02:38:12 PM »
Marijuana is a peculiar subject for Peter, one I agree with his opinions on but I think his insistent "Why?" To suggest a possibility that Jesus and his disciples would smoke a doobie is wrong. Moreover these "what if" questions are meaningless.

I think the insistent "why" is because people keep making statements like "I suppose you can imagine it in the way one can imagine gay Estonian unicorns that sweat cognac and eat Zambian kids, but beyond that, I don't think so." Okay, but why? Jesus turned water into wine, what's to keep him from turning grass into, well grass? This is the "why" that needs to be addressed. Is there some sort of moral difference between marijuana and wine? It can't be a blanket condemnation of intoxication at any level- those wedding guests were so loaded they couldn't tell top-shelf from watered down. So, what is the difference between the two? And Peter keeps repeating the question because it has yet to be answered.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2016, 02:44:56 PM »
Just asking why is a bit too open ended because you don't know what exactly where he is coming from. I would answer the "why" question much differently to someone who is a pot advocate as opposed to someone who is interested in discussing the theological implications of altered mental states.
God bless!

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2016, 03:50:48 PM »
I think the insistent "why" is because people keep making statements like "I suppose you can imagine it in the way one can imagine gay Estonian unicorns that sweat cognac and eat Zambian kids, but beyond that, I don't think so." Okay, but why? Jesus turned water into wine, what's to keep him from turning grass into, well grass? This is the "why" that needs to be addressed.

Frankly, I'm mystified that people who have read even some of the authoritative documents of our religion could ask "why" in the first place. 

Neither Jesus nor his apostles had anything to say about marijuana.  Neither Jesus nor his apostles are portrayed in the New Testament as having used marijuana or other drugs.  If I took this and made a blanket statement that this means marijuana use is a sin, I would merely be applying the same logic to this question that St Basil the Great applies when condemning laughter as sinful in his Longer Rule

But I'm not as holy or wise as St Basil, so I'm left to answer the question PeterTheAleut asked--about why one couldn't imagine Jesus, his apostles, or St Paisios smoking weed--by taking the totality of their words and deeds and using a bit of discernment.  Jesus and his apostles preached a Godward orientation (an aspect of repentance), watchfulness, sobriety, generous simplicity of life (the opposite of prodigality), and similar virtues.  They modeled these virtues.  How does drug use bring the Christian closer to God?  How does it help the Christian to be watchful?  How does it help the Christian to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, etc.?  How does it help me to put a Christian's resources at the service of the least of his brethren?  The consumption of marijuana or other drugs doesn't promote these virtues AFAIK, and often hinders or outright prohibits their exercise.  If someone has evidence to the contrary from the Scriptures (since we are talking about Jesus and his apostles), I'd be glad to become aware of it and reconsider my argument. 

Regarding St Paisios, I think I am on even more solid ground because he was a modern saint who spoke to our own generation, there are people among us who knew him, we have a solid collection of his writings, etc.  I haven't read them all or talked to/heard from all his witnesses, but the closest thing to "drug use" I can think of in his life is taking some coffee before beginning one's night vigil in order to aid alertness and help overcome sleepiness.  I don't see how marijuana would've helped him keep vigil, but I'm open to alternative perspectives.  Perhaps someone with more familiarity with his writings can direct us to teachings about drug use generally or marijuana in particular (I will try to look through my library here and see what I can come up with).  Perhaps someone can share his/her experiences with marijuana and how it helps in keeping a night vigil of noetic prayer or going to Liturgy on Sunday morning.       

Quote
Is there some sort of moral difference between marijuana and wine? It can't be a blanket condemnation of intoxication at any level- those wedding guests were so loaded they couldn't tell top-shelf from watered down.

St John tells us that the wedding guests were as drunk as you say, but he is silent about what Jesus and his apostles thought about their drunkenness, so I'm not sure your conclusion necessarily follows from the evidence.  We can't even say for sure Jesus and his apostles drank any wine at the feast.  But even if we assume he did, I think we can also assume that they weren't drunk.  Jesus, at least, is able to speak to multiple people, give cogent directions, and function normally in a group where there are definitely-drunk and definitely-sober people.  Or should we presume that "O woman, what have you to do with me?" is really the abusive retort of an angry, drunk Jesus lashing out at his mother for meddling in others' business and bothering him with favours while he's busy getting hammered with his new buddies? 

It is really an abuse of Scripture to take this miracle, the first of Christ's signs, and stretch it into a blessing for intoxication.  The devil exegetes like that.  If we can't be St Basil, let us at least not be Satan. 

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So, what is the difference between the two? And Peter keeps repeating the question because it has yet to be answered.

That was not the question Peter asked.           
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2016, 04:05:57 PM »

Well, I don't fit any of those descriptions. Granted, I haven't smoked in many years now. And the people I knew who smoked it as well were a mixed bunch, dumb and brilliant. You're taking shortcuts to judge people just because you don't like others vegging out on a substance, which more Americans do with a beer or glass of wine in the evening. The people who I know who smoked weed are the types of people who delivered countless babies, know four or more languages, professionally edit film for news crews and make their own movies via their own personal funding, get degrees in financing which is just as hard as getting an accounting degree in business, etc. Do you do or know how to do any of these things? If not, then I would be just as reasonable to wager that we are far smarter than you can ever hope to be. And by just as reasonable I mean not reasonable at all.

I'm not taking shortcuts, it's just what I saw all the time. A bunch of hippie freaks talking nonsense. I'm not saying they're bad people, I'm saying marijuana's confirmed to impair your thinking capability, everyone knows that.
But I guess it is doing great for you guys huh?! Why stop it? I mean, screw that vice nonsense I said, it will actually help you out learning the Fathers and Church teachings. Heck, you might even be some Nobel Prize winners the way you're saying it.
But if it was all good you wouldn't have opened this thread, right? So you know it's bad for you. And for everybody.
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I don't smoke anymore and probably won't smoke for many years to come if at all. It was far more of a social thing for me anyways and who I socialize with has changed. As for impairing your thinking, yeah it does impair thinking in many facets. The point of weed isn't have some sort of intellectual enlightenment, at least as far as I am concerned. This is not to say that it renders one incapable of grabbing some sort of insights, although many but not all are total garbage when one becomes sober again. The point is to experience euphoria, generally in a social environment from my experience. And if you think euphoria is in and of itself a sin, then I have to ask what separates you from a Manichee? There is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven, as Solomon says. So there is a time for relaxing and there is a time for working and thinking.

I know the Fathers fairly well and do read them. You cannot blame me for simply taking a break from any worthwhile intellectual task at hand. Everyone takes breaks. Almost anyone can criticize another for not using their time more wisely. Like, instead of laughing at a dumb joke, I could have been praying incessantly for that poor kid in Africa, etc. The list goes on. It's a frivolous line of argument.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2016, 05:22:42 PM »
I think the insistent "why" is because people keep making statements like "I suppose you can imagine it in the way one can imagine gay Estonian unicorns that sweat cognac and eat Zambian kids, but beyond that, I don't think so." Okay, but why? Jesus turned water into wine, what's to keep him from turning grass into, well grass? This is the "why" that needs to be addressed.

Frankly, I'm mystified that people who have read even some of the authoritative documents of our religion could ask "why" in the first place. 

Neither Jesus nor his apostles had anything to say about marijuana.  Neither Jesus nor his apostles are portrayed in the New Testament as having used marijuana or other drugs.  If I took this and made a blanket statement that this means marijuana use is a sin, I would merely be applying the same logic to this question that St Basil the Great applies when condemning laughter as sinful in his Longer Rule

But I'm not as holy or wise as St Basil, so I'm left to answer the question PeterTheAleut asked--about why one couldn't imagine Jesus, his apostles, or St Paisios smoking weed--by taking the totality of their words and deeds and using a bit of discernment.  Jesus and his apostles preached a Godward orientation (an aspect of repentance), watchfulness, sobriety, generous simplicity of life (the opposite of prodigality), and similar virtues.  They modeled these virtues.  How does drug use bring the Christian closer to God?  How does it help the Christian to be watchful?  How does it help the Christian to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, etc.?  How does it help me to put a Christian's resources at the service of the least of his brethren?  The consumption of marijuana or other drugs doesn't promote these virtues AFAIK, and often hinders or outright prohibits their exercise.  If someone has evidence to the contrary from the Scriptures (since we are talking about Jesus and his apostles), I'd be glad to become aware of it and reconsider my argument. 

Regarding St Paisios, I think I am on even more solid ground because he was a modern saint who spoke to our own generation, there are people among us who knew him, we have a solid collection of his writings, etc.  I haven't read them all or talked to/heard from all his witnesses, but the closest thing to "drug use" I can think of in his life is taking some coffee before beginning one's night vigil in order to aid alertness and help overcome sleepiness.  I don't see how marijuana would've helped him keep vigil, but I'm open to alternative perspectives.  Perhaps someone with more familiarity with his writings can direct us to teachings about drug use generally or marijuana in particular (I will try to look through my library here and see what I can come up with).  Perhaps someone can share his/her experiences with marijuana and how it helps in keeping a night vigil of noetic prayer or going to Liturgy on Sunday morning.       

Quote
Is there some sort of moral difference between marijuana and wine? It can't be a blanket condemnation of intoxication at any level- those wedding guests were so loaded they couldn't tell top-shelf from watered down.

St John tells us that the wedding guests were as drunk as you say, but he is silent about what Jesus and his apostles thought about their drunkenness, so I'm not sure your conclusion necessarily follows from the evidence.  We can't even say for sure Jesus and his apostles drank any wine at the feast.  But even if we assume he did, I think we can also assume that they weren't drunk.  Jesus, at least, is able to speak to multiple people, give cogent directions, and function normally in a group where there are definitely-drunk and definitely-sober people.  Or should we presume that "O woman, what have you to do with me?" is really the abusive retort of an angry, drunk Jesus lashing out at his mother for meddling in others' business and bothering him with favours while he's busy getting hammered with his new buddies? 

It is really an abuse of Scripture to take this miracle, the first of Christ's signs, and stretch it into a blessing for intoxication.  The devil exegetes like that.  If we can't be St Basil, let us at least not be Satan. 
+1, this is one good answer.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 05:23:04 PM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2016, 06:28:44 PM »
Marijuana is a peculiar subject for Peter, one I agree with his opinions on but I think his insistent "Why?" To suggest a possibility that Jesus and his disciples would smoke a doobie is wrong.
What's wrong is what you're reading into my "Why not?"s.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2016, 06:29:40 PM »
Marijuana is a peculiar subject for Peter, one I agree with his opinions on but I think his insistent "Why?" To suggest a possibility that Jesus and his disciples would smoke a doobie is wrong. Moreover these "what if" questions are meaningless.

I think the insistent "why" is because people keep making statements like "I suppose you can imagine it in the way one can imagine gay Estonian unicorns that sweat cognac and eat Zambian kids, but beyond that, I don't think so." Okay, but why? Jesus turned water into wine, what's to keep him from turning grass into, well grass? This is the "why" that needs to be addressed. Is there some sort of moral difference between marijuana and wine? It can't be a blanket condemnation of intoxication at any level- those wedding guests were so loaded they couldn't tell top-shelf from watered down. So, what is the difference between the two? And Peter keeps repeating the question because it has yet to be answered.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2016, 06:38:25 PM »
I think the insistent "why" is because people keep making statements like "I suppose you can imagine it in the way one can imagine gay Estonian unicorns that sweat cognac and eat Zambian kids, but beyond that, I don't think so." Okay, but why? Jesus turned water into wine, what's to keep him from turning grass into, well grass? This is the "why" that needs to be addressed.

Frankly, I'm mystified that people who have read even some of the authoritative documents of our religion could ask "why" in the first place. 

Neither Jesus nor his apostles had anything to say about marijuana.  Neither Jesus nor his apostles are portrayed in the New Testament as having used marijuana or other drugs.  If I took this and made a blanket statement that this means marijuana use is a sin, I would merely be applying the same logic to this question that St Basil the Great applies when condemning laughter as sinful in his Longer Rule

But I'm not as holy or wise as St Basil, so I'm left to answer the question PeterTheAleut asked--about why one couldn't imagine Jesus, his apostles, or St Paisios smoking weed--by taking the totality of their words and deeds and using a bit of discernment.  Jesus and his apostles preached a Godward orientation (an aspect of repentance), watchfulness, sobriety, generous simplicity of life (the opposite of prodigality), and similar virtues.  They modeled these virtues.  How does drug use bring the Christian closer to God?  How does it help the Christian to be watchful?  How does it help the Christian to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, etc.?  How does it help me to put a Christian's resources at the service of the least of his brethren?  The consumption of marijuana or other drugs doesn't promote these virtues AFAIK, and often hinders or outright prohibits their exercise.  If someone has evidence to the contrary from the Scriptures (since we are talking about Jesus and his apostles), I'd be glad to become aware of it and reconsider my argument. 

Regarding St Paisios, I think I am on even more solid ground because he was a modern saint who spoke to our own generation, there are people among us who knew him, we have a solid collection of his writings, etc.  I haven't read them all or talked to/heard from all his witnesses, but the closest thing to "drug use" I can think of in his life is taking some coffee before beginning one's night vigil in order to aid alertness and help overcome sleepiness.  I don't see how marijuana would've helped him keep vigil, but I'm open to alternative perspectives.  Perhaps someone with more familiarity with his writings can direct us to teachings about drug use generally or marijuana in particular (I will try to look through my library here and see what I can come up with).  Perhaps someone can share his/her experiences with marijuana and how it helps in keeping a night vigil of noetic prayer or going to Liturgy on Sunday morning.       

Quote
Is there some sort of moral difference between marijuana and wine? It can't be a blanket condemnation of intoxication at any level- those wedding guests were so loaded they couldn't tell top-shelf from watered down.

St John tells us that the wedding guests were as drunk as you say, but he is silent about what Jesus and his apostles thought about their drunkenness, so I'm not sure your conclusion necessarily follows from the evidence.  We can't even say for sure Jesus and his apostles drank any wine at the feast.  But even if we assume he did, I think we can also assume that they weren't drunk.  Jesus, at least, is able to speak to multiple people, give cogent directions, and function normally in a group where there are definitely-drunk and definitely-sober people.  Or should we presume that "O woman, what have you to do with me?" is really the abusive retort of an angry, drunk Jesus lashing out at his mother for meddling in others' business and bothering him with favours while he's busy getting hammered with his new buddies? 

It is really an abuse of Scripture to take this miracle, the first of Christ's signs, and stretch it into a blessing for intoxication.  The devil exegetes like that.  If we can't be St Basil, let us at least not be Satan.
This is the kind of answer I had hoped to receive by asking my question. We had one person state that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I can't imagine them smoking pot, either, but I have a foundation on which to build my inability to imagine that: a knowledge of how Jesus and His disciples lived, of what they taught, and of how much pot smoking appears to contradict all that. I didn't see anything resembling that kind of reasoning when I first saw RaphaCam's post that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I wanted him to explain why he couldn't imagine that.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2016, 06:40:22 PM »

Neither Jesus nor his apostles had anything to say about marijuana.  Neither Jesus nor his apostles are portrayed in the New Testament as having used marijuana or other drugs.  If I took this and made a blanket statement that this means marijuana use is a sin, I would merely be applying the same logic to this question that St Basil the Great applies when condemning laughter as sinful in his Longer Rule


But I'm not as holy or wise as St Basil, so I'm left to answer the question PeterTheAleut asked--about why one couldn't imagine Jesus, his apostles, or St Paisios smoking weed--by taking the totality of their words and deeds and using a bit of discernment.  Jesus and his apostles preached a Godward orientation (an aspect of repentance), watchfulness, sobriety, generous simplicity of life (the opposite of prodigality), and similar virtues.  They modeled these virtues.  How does drug use bring the Christian closer to God?  How does it help the Christian to be watchful?  How does it help the Christian to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, etc.?  How does it help me to put a Christian's resources at the service of the least of his brethren?  The consumption of marijuana or other drugs doesn't promote these virtues AFAIK, and often hinders or outright prohibits their exercise.  If someone has evidence to the contrary from the Scriptures (since we are talking about Jesus and his apostles), I'd be glad to become aware of it and reconsider my argument. 

For what it's worth, the question of marijuana use was answered for me personally by virtue of experience. I suspect my involvement in these threads is along the same lines as Peters, re: I want to see better arguments. My own personal experience tells me that I can't ever use it for recreational purposes again, but I can't say with any certainty that no one can.

As an aside, I do have to wonder about St Basil. The Scriptures never explicitly say that Jesus laughed, but I have a hard time imagining the One who said "Let the little children come to Me" to not have laughed in their presence. A dour, bearded man would have been a frightening experience.
Quote
Regarding St Paisios, I think I am on even more solid ground because he was a modern saint who spoke to our own generation, there are people among us who knew him, we have a solid collection of his writings, etc.  I haven't read them all or talked to/heard from all his witnesses, but the closest thing to "drug use" I can think of in his life is taking some coffee before beginning one's night vigil in order to aid alertness and help overcome sleepiness.  I don't see how marijuana would've helped him keep vigil, but I'm open to alternative perspectives.  Perhaps someone with more familiarity with his writings can direct us to teachings about drug use generally or marijuana in particular (I will try to look through my library here and see what I can come up with).  Perhaps someone can share his/her experiences with marijuana and how it helps in keeping a night vigil of noetic prayer or going to Liturgy on Sunday morning. 

I would certainly not be the person to share such an experience. There was a time when it certainly allowed me to relax enough to seriously read the Church Fathers, but that's not a crutch I've needed since I truly started on the path to becoming Orthodox.     
Quote
Quote
Is there some sort of moral difference between marijuana and wine? It can't be a blanket condemnation of intoxication at any level- those wedding guests were so loaded they couldn't tell top-shelf from watered down.

St John tells us that the wedding guests were as drunk as you say, but he is silent about what Jesus and his apostles thought about their drunkenness, so I'm not sure your conclusion necessarily follows from the evidence. 
Except we can tell what Jesus thought by Jesus's action. He didn't mystically supply Zacchaeus with more taxpayers to bilk. He didn't say to the woman at the well: "You have had five husbands- by the way, John is single."  Jesus's actions show that there is a time and place for moderate, celebratory intoxication (and the Apostles reply at Pentecost tells us that time is definitely not the third hour of the day).

Quote
We can't even say for sure Jesus and his apostles drank any wine at the feast.  But even if we assume he did, I think we can also assume that they weren't drunk.  Jesus, at least, is able to speak to multiple people, give cogent directions, and function normally in a group where there are definitely-drunk and definitely-sober people.  Or should we presume that "O woman, what have you to do with me?" is really the abusive retort of an angry, drunk Jesus lashing out at his mother for meddling in others' business and bothering him with favours while he's busy getting hammered with his new buddies? 

God forbid.
Quote
It is really an abuse of Scripture to take this miracle, the first of Christ's signs, and stretch it into a blessing for intoxication.  The devil exegetes like that.  If we can't be St Basil, let us at least not be Satan. 
I see nothing satanic about applying the basics of logic to the text. Jesus nowhere else supplies the means for people to sin, rather tells them "Go and sin no more." He supplies good wine to a group of people already mildly intoxicated due to an ongoing celebration. Ergo, mild intoxication is not inherently sinful.
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So, what is the difference between the two? And Peter keeps repeating the question because it has yet to be answered.

That was not the question Peter asked.           
I was going more off of the general gist of Peter's approach to this topic rather than any specific instance in this thread, which is what I think the main topic of this little side-boondoggle to be. And I think as I was typing this Peter confirmed my suspicions  :D
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2016, 06:42:51 PM »

As an aside, I do have to wonder about St Basil. The Scriptures never explicitly say that Jesus laughed, but I have a hard time imagining the One who said "Let the little children come to Me" to not have laughed in their presence. A dour, bearded man would have been a frightening experience.
We know he laughed because of holy iconography.


« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 06:45:20 PM by TheTrisagion »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2016, 06:44:05 PM »
Since i have learned that Toll Houses are not real, i am free to do whatever i want, as long as i take part in the Liturgy as pre-icon of the Kingdom of God, i am cool.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2016, 06:45:10 PM »
Since i have learned that Toll Houses are not real, i am free to do whatever i want, as long as i take part in the Liturgy as pre-icon of the Kingdom of God, i am cool.

Toll Houses are real and they are delicious. Thanks, Nestle.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2016, 06:46:34 PM »
Since i have learned that Toll Houses are not real, i am free to do whatever i want, as long as i take part in the Liturgy as pre-icon of the Kingdom of God, i am cool.
Toll Houses are essential when smoking pot. The munchies can hit you hard.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2016, 06:48:29 PM »
Since i have learned that Toll Houses are not real, i am free to do whatever i want, as long as i take part in the Liturgy as pre-icon of the Kingdom of God, i am cool.

That's exactly what the dæmons of the first toll house want you to think.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2016, 06:53:29 PM »
Since i have learned that Toll Houses are not real, i am free to do whatever i want, as long as i take part in the Liturgy as pre-icon of the Kingdom of God, i am cool.
Toll Houses are essential when smoking pot. The munchies can hit you hard.

It used to frustrate my friends to no end that no amount of junk food could make me gain weight.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2016, 06:58:26 PM »
This is the kind of answer I had hoped to receive by asking my question. We had one person state that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I can't imagine them smoking pot, either, but I have a foundation on which to build my inability to imagine that: a knowledge of how Jesus and His disciples lived, of what they taught, and of how much pot smoking appears to contradict all that. I didn't see anything resembling that kind of reasoning when I first saw RaphaCam's post that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I wanted him to explain why he couldn't imagine that.

To be fair to RaphaCam, though, I'm not sure he should have to explain very basic "common sense Orthodox" observations to Orthodox people on an Orthodox forum (and really, his observation was just that, flowing naturally from the principles bolded above, which are the content of basic catechesis). 

That we had to do so--and past threads on this topic are rife with similar exchanges--suggests there is a more significant problem here, and it is not to be found in an unreasoning, irrational piety.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2016, 07:20:20 PM »
This is the kind of answer I had hoped to receive by asking my question. We had one person state that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I can't imagine them smoking pot, either, but I have a foundation on which to build my inability to imagine that: a knowledge of how Jesus and His disciples lived, of what they taught, and of how much pot smoking appears to contradict all that. I didn't see anything resembling that kind of reasoning when I first saw RaphaCam's post that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I wanted him to explain why he couldn't imagine that.

To be fair to RaphaCam, though, I'm not sure he should have to explain very basic "common sense Orthodox" observations to Orthodox people on an Orthodox forum (and really, his observation was just that, flowing naturally from the principles bolded above, which are the content of basic catechesis). 

That we had to do so--and past threads on this topic are rife with similar exchanges--suggests there is a more significant problem here, and it is not to be found in an unreasoning, irrational piety.

Yes, but often these questions come from (not quite there yet) Orthodox people on an Orthodox forum who may not have much exposure to "common sense Orthodox" observations.

There was a time in my life when it wouldn't have stretched my imagination to picture Christ or the Apostles smoking pot. That said, once upon a time when a friend seriously asked, "Do you think Jesus ever smoked pot." My reply was, "I don't think He ever had to. He has eternal communion with the Father and the Spirit."

People here have serious questions, sometimes about subjects we think might be trivial, or that we've gone over before. Some answers might be "common sense Orthodoxy" but we really do owe them the time to take such questions seriously and provide the "why".
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 07:21:02 PM by FormerReformer »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2016, 07:24:15 PM »

As an aside, I do have to wonder about St Basil. The Scriptures never explicitly say that Jesus laughed, but I have a hard time imagining the One who said "Let the little children come to Me" to not have laughed in their presence. A dour, bearded man would have been a frightening experience.
We know he laughed because of holy iconography.




Hrm. Maybe something can be a more frightening experience than a dour, bearded man after all!
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2016, 07:31:34 PM »
As an aside, I do have to wonder about St Basil. The Scriptures never explicitly say that Jesus laughed, but I have a hard time imagining the One who said "Let the little children come to Me" to not have laughed in their presence. A dour, bearded man would have been a frightening experience.

I was only bringing up that example to make a point about a certain kind of interpretive method, not to begin a tangent about whether or not Jesus ever laughed.   

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Is there some sort of moral difference between marijuana and wine? It can't be a blanket condemnation of intoxication at any level- those wedding guests were so loaded they couldn't tell top-shelf from watered down.

St John tells us that the wedding guests were as drunk as you say, but he is silent about what Jesus and his apostles thought about their drunkenness, so I'm not sure your conclusion necessarily follows from the evidence. 
Except we can tell what Jesus thought by Jesus's action. He didn't mystically supply Zacchaeus with more taxpayers to bilk. He didn't say to the woman at the well: "You have had five husbands- by the way, John is single."  Jesus's actions show that there is a time and place for moderate, celebratory intoxication (and the Apostles reply at Pentecost tells us that time is definitely not the third hour of the day).[/quote]

But the miracle at Cana isn't on the same level of "event" as the repentance of Zacchaeus or the conversation with the Samaritan woman, and its function in the Gospel is not as an apologetic for "moderate, celebratory intoxication".  John himself doesn't describe it as a miracle but as a sign.  All the signs are miracles, but not all miracles are signs.  And this sign was the first, it initiated his ministry and the coming of his hour, and the response was that "his disciples believed in him".  It was a theophany, not an affirmation of the proper role of "moderate, celebratory intoxication" (which, by your own admission, this was not: if the guests were already too sloshed to know up from down, making a hundred plus gallons of the best quality wine ever is not likely to encourage "moderation").  As a theophany, this miracle, in all its details, points to so much more than Jesus' inner party animal (it doesn't really point to this at all). 

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We can't even say for sure Jesus and his apostles drank any wine at the feast.  But even if we assume he did, I think we can also assume that they weren't drunk.  Jesus, at least, is able to speak to multiple people, give cogent directions, and function normally in a group where there are definitely-drunk and definitely-sober people.  Or should we presume that "O woman, what have you to do with me?" is really the abusive retort of an angry, drunk Jesus lashing out at his mother for meddling in others' business and bothering him with favours while he's busy getting hammered with his new buddies? 

God forbid.

I won't ask "why".  :P

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It is really an abuse of Scripture to take this miracle, the first of Christ's signs, and stretch it into a blessing for intoxication.  The devil exegetes like that.  If we can't be St Basil, let us at least not be Satan. 
I see nothing satanic about applying the basics of logic to the text.

Matthew 4.1-11; Luke 4.1-13.

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Jesus nowhere else supplies the means for people to sin, rather tells them "Go and sin no more." He supplies good wine to a group of people already mildly intoxicated due to an ongoing celebration. Ergo, mild intoxication is not inherently sinful.

Again, you first said (rightly, based on the Gospel) that they were too drunk to know the difference between quality wine and inferior stuff.  Now you're claiming that the people were "mildly intoxicated".  Why? 
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2016, 07:37:12 PM »
This is the kind of answer I had hoped to receive by asking my question. We had one person state that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I can't imagine them smoking pot, either, but I have a foundation on which to build my inability to imagine that: a knowledge of how Jesus and His disciples lived, of what they taught, and of how much pot smoking appears to contradict all that. I didn't see anything resembling that kind of reasoning when I first saw RaphaCam's post that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I wanted him to explain why he couldn't imagine that.

To be fair to RaphaCam, though, I'm not sure he should have to explain very basic "common sense Orthodox" observations to Orthodox people on an Orthodox forum (and really, his observation was just that, flowing naturally from the principles bolded above, which are the content of basic catechesis). 

That we had to do so--and past threads on this topic are rife with similar exchanges--suggests there is a more significant problem here, and it is not to be found in an unreasoning, irrational piety.

Yes, but often these questions come from (not quite there yet) Orthodox people on an Orthodox forum who may not have much exposure to "common sense Orthodox" observations.

There was a time in my life when it wouldn't have stretched my imagination to picture Christ or the Apostles smoking pot. That said, once upon a time when a friend seriously asked, "Do you think Jesus ever smoked pot." My reply was, "I don't think He ever had to. He has eternal communion with the Father and the Spirit."

People here have serious questions, sometimes about subjects we think might be trivial, or that we've gone over before. Some answers might be "common sense Orthodoxy" but we really do owe them the time to take such questions seriously and provide the "why".

If "Do you think Jesus (and the apostles) ever smoked pot?" is a serious question from serious people, I agree with you, we really do owe them the time and effort necessary to provide the "why".  But their deficiency from the get-go (I'm not judging them, just stating a fact) is so grave that we have to end by answering "Could he have smoked pot?" and begin by answering "Who is Jesus?"  I'm not sure it is possible to cover that much basic catechesis in this sort of thread as a prerequisite to answering a question about pot (or masturbation, or oral sex, or software piracy, or a host of other issues that pop up here from time to time).  At that point, a lot more work needs to be done first, and this may not be the best venue for that.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 07:40:52 PM by Mor Ephrem »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2016, 07:41:37 PM »
Since i have learned that Toll Houses are not real, i am free to do whatever i want, as long as i take part in the Liturgy as pre-icon of the Kingdom of God, i am cool.
Toll Houses are essential when smoking pot. The munchies can hit you hard.

It used to frustrate my friends to no end that no amount of junk food could make me gain weight.

It frustrates me right now.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2016, 07:46:39 PM »

I don't smoke anymore and probably won't smoke for many years to come if at all. It was far more of a social thing for me anyways and who I socialize with has changed. As for impairing your thinking, yeah it does impair thinking in many facets. The point of weed isn't have some sort of intellectual enlightenment, at least as far as I am concerned. This is not to say that it renders one incapable of grabbing some sort of insights, although many but not all are total garbage when one becomes sober again. The point is to experience euphoria, generally in a social environment from my experience. And if you think euphoria is in and of itself a sin, then I have to ask what separates you from a Manichee? There is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven, as Solomon says. So there is a time for relaxing and there is a time for working and thinking.

I know the Fathers fairly well and do read them. You cannot blame me for simply taking a break from any worthwhile intellectual task at hand. Everyone takes breaks. Almost anyone can criticize another for not using their time more wisely. Like, instead of laughing at a dumb joke, I could have been praying incessantly for that poor kid in Africa, etc. The list goes on. It's a frivolous line of argument.

I'm not saying you do.
Okay, let's take it easy now: I'm condemning recreational use here. I condemn it because it poisons our people and mainly because it has destroyed the traditional use of marijuana in determinate cultures.
Now I've read some people saying it "opens doors" in your mind, the same going for LSD. I think Hermann Hesse and Jünger made some points on that.
But I wouldn't recommend that, that's my point.
I would like your input on the euphoria thing, though, didn't completely catch you.

I'm not blaming you from taking a break - I take lots of breaks. The thing is: don't do it in an unhealthy, anti-spiritual fashion.

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« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 03:49:31 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2016, 07:55:52 PM »
As an aside, I do have to wonder about St Basil. The Scriptures never explicitly say that Jesus laughed, but I have a hard time imagining the One who said "Let the little children come to Me" to not have laughed in their presence. A dour, bearded man would have been a frightening experience.

I was only bringing up that example to make a point about a certain kind of interpretive method, not to begin a tangent about whether or not Jesus ever laughed.   
I know. I just love tangents and rabbit trails. I did mention it was an aside, didn't I?

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Quote
Is there some sort of moral difference between marijuana and wine? It can't be a blanket condemnation of intoxication at any level- those wedding guests were so loaded they couldn't tell top-shelf from watered down.

St John tells us that the wedding guests were as drunk as you say, but he is silent about what Jesus and his apostles thought about their drunkenness, so I'm not sure your conclusion necessarily follows from the evidence. 
Except we can tell what Jesus thought by Jesus's action. He didn't mystically supply Zacchaeus with more taxpayers to bilk. He didn't say to the woman at the well: "You have had five husbands- by the way, John is single."  Jesus's actions show that there is a time and place for moderate, celebratory intoxication (and the Apostles reply at Pentecost tells us that time is definitely not the third hour of the day).[/quote]

But the miracle at Cana isn't on the same level of "event" as the repentance of Zacchaeus or the conversation with the Samaritan woman, and its function in the Gospel is not as an apologetic for "moderate, celebratory intoxication".  John himself doesn't describe it as a miracle but as a sign.  All the signs are miracles, but not all miracles are signs.  And this sign was the first, it initiated his ministry and the coming of his hour, and the response was that "his disciples believed in him".  It was a theophany, not an affirmation of the proper role of "moderate, celebratory intoxication" (which, by your own admission, this was not: if the guests were already too sloshed to know up from down, making a hundred plus gallons of the best quality wine ever is not likely to encourage "moderation").[/quote]
I'll address the parenthetical later on.
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  As a theophany, this miracle, in all its details, points to so much more than Jesus' inner party animal (it doesn't really point to this at all). 

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We can't even say for sure Jesus and his apostles drank any wine at the feast.  But even if we assume he did, I think we can also assume that they weren't drunk.  Jesus, at least, is able to speak to multiple people, give cogent directions, and function normally in a group where there are definitely-drunk and definitely-sober people.  Or should we presume that "O woman, what have you to do with me?" is really the abusive retort of an angry, drunk Jesus lashing out at his mother for meddling in others' business and bothering him with favours while he's busy getting hammered with his new buddies? 

God forbid.

I won't ask "why".  :P
LOL
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It is really an abuse of Scripture to take this miracle, the first of Christ's signs, and stretch it into a blessing for intoxication.  The devil exegetes like that.  If we can't be St Basil, let us at least not be Satan. 
I see nothing satanic about applying the basics of logic to the text.

Matthew 4.1-11; Luke 4.1-13.

Basics of logic. Not twisting the Scriptures to provide temptation for others. Which I could see how this could be interpreted as such, what with me saying "mild intoxication is not inherently sinful", but we're coming to that anyway....

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Jesus nowhere else supplies the means for people to sin, rather tells them "Go and sin no more." He supplies good wine to a group of people already mildly intoxicated due to an ongoing celebration. Ergo, mild intoxication is not inherently sinful.
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Again, you first said (rightly, based on the Gospel) that they were too drunk to know the difference between quality wine and inferior stuff.  Now you're claiming that the people were "mildly intoxicated".  Why?
Well, personal experience tells me that one doesn't need to be completely hammered to not know (or rather, not care about) the difference between the good stuff and the bad. Certainly accepting an MGD when one prefers Guinness is not being inebriated to the point of not "knowing up from down." (And in fact might even be necessary if one is in an establishment that doesn't supply that delicious treat) A mild level of intoxication can make one care less about the taste, and the interests of ongoing celebration demand that more alcohol be supplied, regardless of quality.

And note: they weren't too drunk to not be able to tell the difference (I used exaggeration for rhetorical purposes earlier, but let's be honest to the text now that we're getting serious). Rather, when the good stuff was brought forth it was immediately noticed and commented upon.

But the logic follows. God is not the author of sin. Christ came to call us from our sins, not to enable us in continuing to sin. The wedding party at Cana was not sinning in their level of intoxication, otherwise Christ would not have done what He did - and indeed, the Mother of God would not have made the request she did! To say otherwise about the wedding would be blasphemy.

Edited to fix quote tags
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 08:04:44 PM by FormerReformer »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #76 on: February 05, 2016, 08:03:13 PM »
This is the kind of answer I had hoped to receive by asking my question. We had one person state that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I can't imagine them smoking pot, either, but I have a foundation on which to build my inability to imagine that: a knowledge of how Jesus and His disciples lived, of what they taught, and of how much pot smoking appears to contradict all that. I didn't see anything resembling that kind of reasoning when I first saw RaphaCam's post that he couldn't imagine Jesus and His disciples smoking pot. I wanted him to explain why he couldn't imagine that.

To be fair to RaphaCam, though, I'm not sure he should have to explain very basic "common sense Orthodox" observations to Orthodox people on an Orthodox forum (and really, his observation was just that, flowing naturally from the principles bolded above, which are the content of basic catechesis). 

That we had to do so--and past threads on this topic are rife with similar exchanges--suggests there is a more significant problem here, and it is not to be found in an unreasoning, irrational piety.

Yes, but often these questions come from (not quite there yet) Orthodox people on an Orthodox forum who may not have much exposure to "common sense Orthodox" observations.

There was a time in my life when it wouldn't have stretched my imagination to picture Christ or the Apostles smoking pot. That said, once upon a time when a friend seriously asked, "Do you think Jesus ever smoked pot." My reply was, "I don't think He ever had to. He has eternal communion with the Father and the Spirit."

People here have serious questions, sometimes about subjects we think might be trivial, or that we've gone over before. Some answers might be "common sense Orthodoxy" but we really do owe them the time to take such questions seriously and provide the "why".

If "Do you think Jesus (and the apostles) ever smoked pot?" is a serious question from serious people, I agree with you, we really do owe them the time and effort necessary to provide the "why".  But their deficiency from the get-go (I'm not judging them, just stating a fact) is so grave that we have to end by answering "Could he have smoked pot?" and begin by answering "Who is Jesus?"  I'm not sure it is possible to cover that much basic catechesis in this sort of thread as a prerequisite to answering a question about pot (or masturbation, or oral sex, or software piracy, or a host of other issues that pop up here from time to time).  At that point, a lot more work needs to be done first, and this may not be the best venue for that.
I was referring more to the topic of marijuana use and the morality or lack thereof. I think the "Jesus and Apostles smoking pot" was less a serious question and more of a less-than-serious answer to the question already in play. Though, I've already indicated the ways in which I could see a pot-smoking Christian answering that question in the positive.

Since i have learned that Toll Houses are not real, i am free to do whatever i want, as long as i take part in the Liturgy as pre-icon of the Kingdom of God, i am cool.
Toll Houses are essential when smoking pot. The munchies can hit you hard.

It used to frustrate my friends to no end that no amount of junk food could make me gain weight.

It frustrates me right now.

If it's any consolation, I don't eat anywhere near as much junk food as I did then :D  The fasting periods seem to be what does it for me these days- I'll just be getting up to a "healthy" weight when Lent or Advent hits and then I'm back at square one!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 08:06:02 PM by FormerReformer »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #77 on: February 05, 2016, 10:24:38 PM »
The Dude abides.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2016, 12:03:54 AM »
Well, personal experience tells me that one doesn't need to be completely hammered to not know (or rather, not care about) the difference between the good stuff and the bad. Certainly accepting an MGD when one prefers Guinness is not being inebriated to the point of not "knowing up from down." (And in fact might even be necessary if one is in an establishment that doesn't supply that delicious treat) A mild level of intoxication can make one care less about the taste, and the interests of ongoing celebration demand that more alcohol be supplied, regardless of quality.

And note: they weren't too drunk to not be able to tell the difference (I used exaggeration for rhetorical purposes earlier, but let's be honest to the text now that we're getting serious). Rather, when the good stuff was brought forth it was immediately noticed and commented upon.

If by "they", you mean the sober waitstaff, yes, they were able to tell the difference.  They were also able to know that the quality would be lost on the drunk guests. 

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But the logic follows. God is not the author of sin. Christ came to call us from our sins, not to enable us in continuing to sin. The wedding party at Cana was not sinning in their level of intoxication, otherwise Christ would not have done what He did - and indeed, the Mother of God would not have made the request she did! To say otherwise about the wedding would be blasphemy.

This is a very simplistic interpretation.  And convenient.  Still, no.

The Gospel account does not address whether or not the guests were sinning.  It's not concerned with that question.  You can't make a declaration that the guests were not sinning anymore than you can declare they were sinning. 

As for Christ not doing things he ought not to have done and his Mother not asking for such favours, remember that Christ responded to his Mother's "They have no wine" with, more or less, "So what?  It's not my time yet."  But she proceeded to act as if he said "Yes, Mom", and he did it anyway, exceeding all expectations.  Which one of them was blaspheming?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2016, 02:38:05 AM »
Well, personal experience tells me that one doesn't need to be completely hammered to not know (or rather, not care about) the difference between the good stuff and the bad. Certainly accepting an MGD when one prefers Guinness is not being inebriated to the point of not "knowing up from down." (And in fact might even be necessary if one is in an establishment that doesn't supply that delicious treat) A mild level of intoxication can make one care less about the taste, and the interests of ongoing celebration demand that more alcohol be supplied, regardless of quality.

And note: they weren't too drunk to not be able to tell the difference (I used exaggeration for rhetorical purposes earlier, but let's be honest to the text now that we're getting serious). Rather, when the good stuff was brought forth it was immediately noticed and commented upon.

If by "they", you mean the sober waitstaff, yes, they were able to tell the difference.  They were also able to know that the quality would be lost on the drunk guests. 

By "they" I mean at the very least the master of the feast, the man presiding over the whole affair, who made the comment. Part of his job at this occasion ("job" here being used very loosely, not a hired hand, more of an honored guest) was to drink, comment upon the drink, keep drinking, and ensure that favored guests were provided with said drink. Of course, Sirach recommends moderation so that one may properly fulfill his duties in such a role, but then he also says that when said duties are fulfilled it's perfectly acceptable to "get down" as the kids are calling it.

Though, in all fairness, your explanation follows closely with St John Chrysostom's.
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But the logic follows. God is not the author of sin. Christ came to call us from our sins, not to enable us in continuing to sin. The wedding party at Cana was not sinning in their level of intoxication, otherwise Christ would not have done what He did - and indeed, the Mother of God would not have made the request she did! To say otherwise about the wedding would be blasphemy.

This is a very simplistic interpretation.  And convenient.  Still, no.

How many Fathers use this very same event to show the blessedness and approval of God over the institution of marriage, using the same sort of convenient and simplistic interpretation? I'm sure we can find far more Patristic consensus for the event showing approval of marriage than St Basil's interpetational gymnastics to condemn laughter!

Going back to the Old Testament era there was a certain acceptable level of intoxication for the purposes of celebration. Drunkenness was condemned, making merry was not.

As well, the wedding at Cana prefigures another, more eternal wedding feast. I would hate to be the teetotaler at that feast - and indeed, would think by that point any hint of moderation would be abandoned.
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The Gospel account does not address whether or not the guests were sinning.  It's not concerned with that question.  You can't make a declaration that the guests were not sinning anymore than you can declare they were sinning. 
But you would surely agree that the Lord would not aid them in sin? And again, the Fathers use the same event to show that the marriage bed is indeed, as another Apostle says, undefiled. It is not out of place to use a Gospel passage that makes no mention of sin to decide the question of whether an act is, or is not sinful. Of course, much like marriage has it's counterpart in the Church with the celibates, it is also not out of place to suggest that total sobriety might be the better option for this lifetime.
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As for Christ not doing things he ought not to have done and his Mother not asking for such favours, remember that Christ responded to his Mother's "They have no wine" with, more or less, "So what?  It's not my time yet." 
I think we could very easily derail this thread (if we haven't already done so) plumbing the depths of what Christ meant with "It is not yet my time".
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But she proceeded to act as if he said "Yes, Mom", and he did it anyway, exceeding all expectations.  Which one of them was blaspheming?
Again, to really mine this, we would probably derail the thread. I suspect at this end we're trying to score rhetorical points off each other more than anything. I'll let stand what I've said earlier in this reply and opt against attempting to dance on the head of the pin with the 30 or so angels (depending on how steep the cover charge) already there with this end of the discussion.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2016, 05:33:29 PM »
Where in John 2 does it say that the guests at the wedding feast were drunk? Just because they ran out of wine, doesn't necessarily mean that they were drunk. It could just mean that there were a lot of guests.

Edit: Nvm...Jn 2:10

Going back to the Old Testament era there was a certain acceptable level of intoxication for the purposes of celebration. Drunkenness was condemned, making merry was not.
How intoxicated does someone have to be in order to be drunk? Just above the legal BAC level for driving?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 05:44:59 PM by byhisgrace »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2016, 05:39:13 PM »
Where in John 2 does it say that the guests at the wedding feast were drunk? Just because they ran out of wine, doesn't necessarily mean that they were drunk. It could just mean that there were a lot of guests.

It's said they could not get the difference between good and bad wine
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2016, 07:01:47 PM »
Quote
“Also, one will beautify [Shabbat candle lighting] when the wick is made from cotton, flax or cannabis…”

That’s right, cannabis.

This dictate, found in the Shulchan Aruch (Code of Jewish Law), piqued the curiosity of Boston geriatrician Yosef Glassman when he was reading about Sabbath rituals on a religious quest nearly two decades ago.

...
...
In the talk, Glassman described finding several biblical references to the herb that include Book of Numbers 17:12-13, where Aaron the High Priest, “no pun intended,” probably burned marijuana as an incense offering “during a time of turmoil.” Other passages include God’s instructions to Moses to “take for yourself herbs b’samim” — herbs of medicinal quality — and instructions in Exodus to “take spices of the finest sort, pure myrrh, five hundred shekels, fragrant cinnamon, and ‘keneh bosem,’” which literally means “sweet cane,” but possibly refers to cannabis, said Glassman. “Keneh bosem” is also mentioned in the Song of Songs 4:14, Isaiah 43:24, Jeremiah 6:20 and Ezekiel 27:19. Another pronunciation is the Aramaic “kene busma,” which, perhaps unsurprisingly, is also the name of a modern reggae musician.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/1.562450

Quote
kaneh-bosem only occurs once, in Exodus 30:23

    “Also take for yourself quality spices—five hundred shekels of liquid myrrh, half as much sweet-smelling cinnamon (two hundred and fifty shekels), two hundred and fifty shekels of sweet-smelling cane (קנה בשם kaneh-bosem).  – NKJV

The context here is for creating an anointing oil that is to be used for anointing sacred objects, from the tabernacle to priests. But it is not meant for consumption or topical treatment for any medical purpose.
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/departinghoreb/is-cannabis-mentioned-in-the-bible/
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2016, 08:50:13 PM »
Where in John 2 does it say that the guests at the wedding feast were drunk? Just because they ran out of wine, doesn't necessarily mean that they were drunk. It could just mean that there were a lot of guests.

Edit: Nvm...Jn 2:10

Going back to the Old Testament era there was a certain acceptable level of intoxication for the purposes of celebration. Drunkenness was condemned, making merry was not.
How intoxicated does someone have to be in order to be drunk? Just above the legal BAC level for driving?

Well, we have to take into account a difference in chronology and culture. A lot of what we consider here in America to be "intoxication" would be "Tuesday afternoon" in other cultures. I don't think blood alcohol level really does anything other than set a legal baseline for officers to incarcerate people for drunk driving - the difference between "merry" and "sodden" is more subjective and has to do with the mindset of the drinking persons. If conversation is flowing, people are speaking rapidly and happily, and the white boys have *just* hit the dance floor, we have reached the point of merry. When fights start breaking out, people start passing out, the depressive effects of alcohol have set in, or the white boys have started to attempt the worm or pop'n'lock, then soddenness has arrived.

A certain amount of discernment is needed. Of course, part of the problem with being drunk is that discernment goes right out the window. Generally speaking, though, once one knows their limits they can avoid the point of drinking where judgement is significantly impaired (though occasionally outside factors such as unknown illness or having skipped a meal can lower those limits and take one unaware). 
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #84 on: September 16, 2016, 08:34:18 PM »
From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Setting aside medical utility, I fail to see how the recreational use of marijuana does not represent a sinful indulgence in the passions.   The Ethiopian church has said as much due to the Rasta question.  I also believe it is neccessary to reject the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus and related non-Christian religions in the strongest possible way.

@wgw - what do you have against the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus? I ask, because I hear a lot about Opiate addicts doing better with Cannabis. I mean, besides that they are non-Christian, obviously? What do they do besides eat a lot of hashish?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2016, 08:38:27 AM »
I doubt that if they had cannabis thousands of years ago, that it was used for anything but medicinal purposes such as pain relief and to make cloth and rope.


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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #86 on: September 17, 2016, 09:11:54 AM »
From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

Setting aside medical utility, I fail to see how the recreational use of marijuana does not represent a sinful indulgence in the passions.   The Ethiopian church has said as much due to the Rasta question.  I also believe it is neccessary to reject the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus and related non-Christian religions in the strongest possible way.

@wgw - what do you have against the Hashish-assisted asceticism of the Hindu Saddhus? I ask, because I hear a lot about Opiate addicts doing better with Cannabis. I mean, besides that they are non-Christian, obviously? What do they do besides eat a lot of hashish?

What I have against their asceticism is that it is a soul-destroying process, making them conduits for demonic activity; these evil men are celebrated around the world as the great holy men of India and as ascetics par excellence, but in fact, their ascetic labours are made laughable by their use of hashish to blunt the pain, and they are simply devil worshippers (Psalm 95:5 LXX; explain to me how Shiva manifest as Kali is not at best the product of drug induced hallucination, from a "bad trip," at worse, a demon).

As far as pain management is concerned, given the risks to the pulmonary tract from smoking hashish, I think the idea of forcing people with chronic pain down that road would be horrendous.   And how are you going to manage the pain of a trauma patient with a partially collapsed lung and an obstructed airway, on a ventillator, that way?  It is ridiculous.

If people addicted to heroin are able to get free of it using hashish, great, but lets let the doctors make the call on what drugs to use for pain management and how to deal with the risk and management of the addictive properties of these drugs (in some cases, what looks like addiction is actually the underlying injury remaining untreated or untreatable; certain forms of spinal injury will produce incurable and degenerative neuropathies).  Some people have had positive results with marijuana-based treatments, so I think that should be an area of research, but, smoking it as a delivery system should be out of the question.

But this is a biomedical question and properly speaking all we can do is Christians is pray for the people with this ailment, and give them healing oil, as per St. James, which does work, by the way (I have seen it first hand in action against cancer).   The Eucharist can also be a veriable panacea if approached with fear of God, faith, love and proper repentance and preparation, rescuing us from a variety of mental and physical problems.

But the hash used sacramentally by Rastas and Saddhus just makes things worse.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #87 on: September 17, 2016, 10:55:39 AM »
If someone is dying in a few years and smoking pot helps him to get rid of pain, lung cancer in 30 years is not much of a problem.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #88 on: September 17, 2016, 01:37:10 PM »
So many replies in this thread assume cannabis is a guilty pleasure. (If it is, it's not the only one we consume.) Through most of history it's use was as a herb and medicine. I think that because the pharmaceutical industry has coopted most of the ancient remedies, patented and synthesized them, had them "scheduled" by governments around the world, we no longer even realize that Nature was the inventor of most of our medicines. There is a godly use for alcohol (I Tim 5:23), a substance that has been abused, for recreation or clumsy self-medication, since ancient times -- why not a godly use for cannabis? There isn't much discussion among conservative Christians about whether it is wrong to accept a prescription for hydrocodone or morphine. Why are these not despicable too, considering their long history as recreation? Traditionalism (small "t") seems to have a selective memory.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #89 on: September 17, 2016, 03:26:37 PM »
I really couldn't see why it would be wrong to use marijuana medically, and I favour its legalisation in my country even for recreational uses for practical reasons, but smoking weed seems to fall way off the WWJD spectrum. As using morphine, hydrocodone or sleep pills recreatively would.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2016, 05:22:49 PM »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2016, 09:35:55 PM »
So far there is Medicinal Marijuana, Recreational Marijuana, Sacramental Marijuana (per @wgw), and I feel like the balance is off so I'd like to suggest "Industrial Marijuana" (work drugs) and "Supplemental Marijuana" (pseudo-science).

Anyone?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2016, 01:14:59 AM »
industrial marijuana? how does that work?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2016, 07:06:09 AM »
Marijuana is for dopes and retards, because that's precisely what it turns people into.
Stay of the hook for christians should not cultivate vices like those.
Besides, the "weed scene" is just terrible. I had lots of friends who smoked weed and hash and the conversations were... balls. Never heard of anything intelligent coming from them. Prolly because this stuff mentally handicaps you.

Sigh @ outdated myths you hold on to. Marijuana is smoked by some of the smartest people to walk the earth and some of the dumbest as well. Smoking cannabis does not make one dumb or stupid anymore than drinking water or eating food does. 

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2016, 07:49:09 AM »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #95 on: September 18, 2016, 06:08:49 PM »
industrial marijuana? how does that work?

Doesn't "recreational marijuana" sound like you're sitting around by the pool, sipping margaritas? And then one of your buddies is like, "Hey Rapha, do you know what would be even chiller....?"

I do think it's already a real category, though. For example, in Pennsylvania they have a certain amount of marijuana that is allowed in your system before you're charged with a DUI, because you'll keep testing positive for up to 30 days.

Supplemental Marijuana is currently available in all 50 states, according to an advertisment I read today. It's supposed to be pure CBD, no THC.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 06:39:09 PM by mcarmichael »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #96 on: September 18, 2016, 06:31:10 PM »
industrial marijuana? how does that work?

Doesn't "recreational marijuana" sound like you're sitting around by the pool, sipping margaritas? And then one of your buddies is like, "Hey Rapha, do you know what would be even chiller....?"
LOL, never quit posting in this site.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 06:56:38 PM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2016, 07:51:44 PM »
LOL, never quit posting in this site.  :laugh:

Don't encourage him, Rapha.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 07:52:16 PM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2016, 10:05:36 PM »
Industrial hemp (which contains little to no THC, and thus is not technically marijuana despite being the same species) exists. Maybe that's what mcarmichael was referring to.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 10:05:43 PM by Minnesotan »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2016, 12:18:19 AM »
Canada’s Cops Smoke 1.5 Grams of Weed a Day - http://www.thesmokersclub.com/news/canadas-cops-smoke-gram-weed-day/
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Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #100 on: September 23, 2016, 12:21:45 AM »
lol, such babies, Latin American cops can work for days on coke
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #101 on: September 23, 2016, 09:37:37 AM »
It isn't acceptable; contrary to the tantrums indignant users throw when any study comes out linking marijuana to deleterious health effects, it is indeed a dangerous substance. A short conversation with a regular user reveals the effects of memory loss, reduced IQ, mental illness, and laziness. Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function. From a spiritual point of view, this also opens the individual to demonic influence and attacks.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 09:38:03 AM by Saxon »

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #102 on: September 23, 2016, 07:21:45 PM »
Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function.

Isn't this why people drink coffee, though?
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Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #103 on: September 23, 2016, 07:29:02 PM »
Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function

What's the fun in that?

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #104 on: September 23, 2016, 08:20:06 PM »
Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function

What's the fun in that?

It's medicinal?
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
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"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #105 on: September 23, 2016, 10:20:32 PM »
It isn't acceptable; contrary to the tantrums indignant users throw when any study comes out linking marijuana to deleterious health effects, it is indeed a dangerous substance. A short conversation with a regular user reveals the effects of memory loss, reduced IQ, mental illness, and laziness. Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function. From a spiritual point of view, this also opens the individual to demonic influence and attacks.

It's thin ice, but I want to refer to St. Paul the Apostle, referring to various foods: "I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean."

So I agree that it could be problematic.

However there are also those who say that all Marijuana is medicinal. Pot has health benefits, they say.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #106 on: September 23, 2016, 10:38:04 PM »
I'll say this: I have used marijuana abusively and it can be used abusively. I would add as a caveat that marijuana is not a drug that lends itself towards abuse, naturally. Sometimes I need to push myself to self-medicate. It always works and it's never the problem. (results may not be typical.)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 10:45:18 PM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2016, 11:08:03 PM »
Here in Canada, many people smoke weed, some people even smoke it publicly. Our current Prime Minister promised to legalize and regulate the use of Marijuana, nevertheless, it remains illegal for now.

From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

smoking is always harmful.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2016, 02:55:44 AM »
I learned this watching youtube, that wood produces combustible gasses, some of which are not always fully combusted when ppl smoke marijuana.

True story.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 03:04:05 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
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For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2016, 03:10:14 AM »
I learned this watching youtube, that wood produces combustible gasses, some of which are not always fully combusted when ppl smoke marijuana.

True story.

Talking to myself again. Apologies Mods.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 03:13:02 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #110 on: September 24, 2016, 03:17:10 AM »
Here in Canada, many people smoke weed, some people even smoke it publicly. Our current Prime Minister promised to legalize and regulate the use of Marijuana, nevertheless, it remains illegal for now.

From a Christian point of view, especially the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic, is smoking weed/marijuana sinful?

smoking is always harmful.

My three remaining lung cells would agree if they were capable of cognitive processes. Which doesn't bode well.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 03:21:39 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #111 on: September 24, 2016, 03:34:55 AM »
I think cops should use marijuana. I doubt if anyone actually read the article I shared, but any medicinal user in the Canadian MP is removed from active duty.

Whereas I have heard the suggestion that every goverment official out to be tested regularly, proscriptively! In other words, it ought to be a pre-requisite.. And, they ought to be tested regularly. I don't know if anyone here has heard of that before. It may be true.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 03:40:59 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #112 on: September 24, 2016, 03:52:56 AM »
Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function

What's the fun in that?


True dat.

It's like smoking pot and stop before it kicks just to get hungry.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #113 on: September 24, 2016, 10:12:21 PM »
Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function

What's the fun in that?


True dat.

It's like smoking pot and stop before it kicks just to get hungry.

Think about it, Mike.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

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Offline Saxon

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #114 on: September 25, 2016, 07:09:25 AM »
Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function.

Isn't this why people drink coffee, though?

Caffeine is a stimulant but doesn't alter perceptions of reality or cloud one's judgement, nor is it correlated to brain damage as marijuana is.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #115 on: September 25, 2016, 09:37:10 AM »
Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function.

Isn't this why people drink coffee, though?

Caffeine is a stimulant but doesn't alter perceptions of reality or cloud one's judgement, nor is it correlated to brain damage as marijuana is.

It depends how much coffee you drink.
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #116 on: September 25, 2016, 12:34:38 PM »
It isn't acceptable; contrary to the tantrums indignant users throw when any study comes out linking marijuana to deleterious health effects, it is indeed a dangerous substance. A short conversation with a regular user reveals the effects of memory loss, reduced IQ, mental illness, and laziness. Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function. From a spiritual point of view, this also opens the individual to demonic influence and attacks.

You do realize that those studies concern people who start smoking weed at a young age, right? If you wait until your 20's when most of your brain development is completely done or near done, those effects are either miniscule or non-existent.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2016, 06:07:07 PM »
It isn't acceptable; contrary to the tantrums indignant users throw when any study comes out linking marijuana to deleterious health effects, it is indeed a dangerous substance. A short conversation with a regular user reveals the effects of memory loss, reduced IQ, mental illness, and laziness. Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function. From a spiritual point of view, this also opens the individual to demonic influence and attacks.

You do realize that those studies concern people who start smoking weed at a young age, right? If you wait until your 20's when most of your brain development is completely done or near done, those effects are either miniscule or non-existent.

Most people don't wait.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #118 on: September 25, 2016, 06:32:28 PM »
It isn't acceptable; contrary to the tantrums indignant users throw when any study comes out linking marijuana to deleterious health effects, it is indeed a dangerous substance. A short conversation with a regular user reveals the effects of memory loss, reduced IQ, mental illness, and laziness. Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function. From a spiritual point of view, this also opens the individual to demonic influence and attacks.

You do realize that those studies concern people who start smoking weed at a young age, right? If you wait until your 20's when most of your brain development is completely done or near done, those effects are either miniscule or non-existent.
Can you back this up?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2016, 10:47:04 PM »
Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function.

Isn't this why people drink coffee, though?

Caffeine is a stimulant but doesn't alter perceptions of reality or cloud one's judgement, nor is it correlated to brain damage as marijuana is.

There are actually a lot of studies that show that it does damage the brain.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #120 on: September 25, 2016, 11:21:38 PM »
I didn't find them in time to include them previously, but I'm sure that if you look for them, you'll find them.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #121 on: September 26, 2016, 06:13:02 PM »
Can you back this up?

I would refer you to "Cannabis and the Brain: A User's Guide", at http://norml.org/component/zoo/category/cannabis-and-the-brain-a-user-s-guide, but I feel like it's a red herring, because alcohol kills brain cells for sure, and that's not why it's wrong to drink too much afaik.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #122 on: September 27, 2016, 10:35:01 PM »
I understand that Cannabis is very popular in Egypt; has the Coptic Church said anything about it?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 11:04:39 PM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #123 on: September 28, 2016, 08:04:02 PM »
It isn't acceptable; contrary to the tantrums indignant users throw when any study comes out linking marijuana to deleterious health effects, it is indeed a dangerous substance. A short conversation with a regular user reveals the effects of memory loss, reduced IQ, mental illness, and laziness. Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function. From a spiritual point of view, this also opens the individual to demonic influence and attacks.

This screed is false on its face, for two reasons. First, your contradiction that substances can be taken in smaller amounts, but not cannabis. Second, your upholding alcohol, which almost anyone in any generation knows causes uncounted abuses, violence, even death.

Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function

What's the fun in that?


True dat.

It's like smoking pot and stop before it kicks just to get hungry.

Another evidence of the shallow thinking and observation in this thread. If one can take alcohol as a digestif, and not for drunken partying (note, I include people who aren't Americans), then one can "smoke pot and stop before it kicks in" enough to relieve pain, calm muscle spasms, cure nausea, and the like -- and indeed thousands of patients do.
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #124 on: October 01, 2016, 05:26:36 AM »
The suppression of MJ and hemp is completely irrational.  It's one of the best medicines out there.   I've got fibromyalgia and hemp is very useful for this condition- it's one of the more effective substances.  It's also good for anxiety.  So I'm very much in favor of it.

Fibromyalgia is like your muscles or nerves feeling like they are on fire.  Asprin doesn't do a thing for it.  Conventional treatments are SSRI's that can turn you into a zombie or a eunuch.

I've even used hemp instead of opiate painkillers after I messed up my shoulder playing golf (I have torn labrums in both shoulders now) and I developed Frozen Shoulder Syndrome.  My doctor actually casually wrote a prescription for oxycodone.  No thanks... I don't need the constipation or potential drug addiction.

I'm not a fan of THC but not all types of hemp contain appreciable amounts of THC.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 05:34:49 AM by Daedelus1138 »
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Offline Saxon

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #125 on: October 02, 2016, 10:28:16 AM »
It isn't acceptable; contrary to the tantrums indignant users throw when any study comes out linking marijuana to deleterious health effects, it is indeed a dangerous substance. A short conversation with a regular user reveals the effects of memory loss, reduced IQ, mental illness, and laziness. Unlike alcohol, which can be consumed in moderate amounts so as not to cloud one's brain function, the intent of smoking marijuana is specifically to achieve intoxication, departing reality and altering brain function. From a spiritual point of view, this also opens the individual to demonic influence and attacks.

This screed is false on its face, for two reasons. First, your contradiction that substances can be taken in smaller amounts, but not cannabis. Second, your upholding alcohol, which almost anyone in any generation knows causes uncounted abuses, violence, even death.

There is no contradiction here; social drinking is quite common and, as acknowledged by the scriptures, acceptable. Drinking to intoxication and inane behaviour is another issue. Conversely, marijuana is not smoked "socially", and a proportionately smaller amount is required to become intoxicated. It is invariably smoked to become high, while alcohol is not always consumed to become drunk.

I am not defending the deleterious effects of alcohol. My father was a violent alcoholic who committed suicide while drunk when I was 15 - I lived through the negative impact of alcohol abuse daily for half my life. I am very much in favour of seeing its availability and use curbed. Further, while both are physically harmful substances and in no way "safe" by any stretch of the imagination, marijuana's impact on brain function, resulting in memory loss, reduced IQ, and other consequences, creates at least as many social ills as alcohol. I would like to at least see an acknowledgement of this fact from legality/use advocates.

If anyone here truly believes that marijuana use is acceptable or permissible, I strongly suggest praying to St. John of Kronstadt, who lamented the growing trend of substance abuse in many of his later writings.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #126 on: October 02, 2016, 06:39:19 PM »
If anyone here truly believes that marijuana use is acceptable or permissible, I strongly suggest praying to St. John of Kronstadt, who lamented the growing trend of substance abuse in many of his later writings.

Cheeze. That's one of the worst things I've heard that wasn't from a fairytale. I'm so sorry.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline Saxon

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #127 on: October 04, 2016, 01:35:01 PM »
If anyone here truly believes that marijuana use is acceptable or permissible, I strongly suggest praying to St. John of Kronstadt, who lamented the growing trend of substance abuse in many of his later writings.

Cheeze. That's one of the worst things I've heard that wasn't from a fairytale. I'm so sorry.

At the end of the day, these kinds of indignant responses are simply the product of people who take a wrong position, and then dislike being called out for it. Unfortunately, they are not arguments and add nothing to the debate.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #128 on: October 04, 2016, 02:47:01 PM »
If anyone here truly believes that marijuana use is acceptable or permissible, I strongly suggest praying to St. John of Kronstadt, who lamented the growing trend of substance abuse in many of his later writings.

Cheeze. That's one of the worst things I've heard that wasn't from a fairytale. I'm so sorry.

At the end of the day, these kinds of indignant responses are simply the product of people who take a wrong position, and then dislike being called out for it. Unfortunately, they are not arguments and add nothing to the debate.

No, I meant the story about you father. That's awful.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline Saxon

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #129 on: October 05, 2016, 11:15:01 AM »
If anyone here truly believes that marijuana use is acceptable or permissible, I strongly suggest praying to St. John of Kronstadt, who lamented the growing trend of substance abuse in many of his later writings.

Cheeze. That's one of the worst things I've heard that wasn't from a fairytale. I'm so sorry.

At the end of the day, these kinds of indignant responses are simply the product of people who take a wrong position, and then dislike being called out for it. Unfortunately, they are not arguments and add nothing to the debate.

No, I meant the story about you father. That's awful.

Apologies, and thank you.

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #130 on: October 22, 2016, 10:26:11 PM »
I really couldn't see why it would be wrong to use marijuana medically, and I favour its legalisation in my country even for recreational uses for practical reasons, but smoking weed seems to fall way off the WWJD spectrum. As using morphine, hydrocodone or sleep pills recreatively would.

Maybe it's easier if you're a recovering alcoholic?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 10:36:22 PM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #131 on: October 22, 2016, 10:32:56 PM »
I really couldn't see why it would be wrong to use marijuana medically, and I favour its legalisation in my country even for recreational uses for practical reasons, but smoking weed seems to fall way off the WWJD spectrum. As using morphine, hydrocodone or sleep pills recreatively would.

Maybe it's easier if you're a recovering alcoholic?
Well, maybe in that case it's not 100% recreational, although it's still something one should do their best to leave, IMHO.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 10:33:15 PM by RaphaCam »
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Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #132 on: October 22, 2016, 10:40:25 PM »
Maybe it's easier if you're a recovering alcoholic?
Well, maybe in that case it's not 100% recreational, although it's still something one should do their best to leave, IMHO.
There is a theory that all Marijuana is medicinal.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 10:57:19 PM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline WPM

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #133 on: October 23, 2016, 11:41:44 AM »
You're much better off if you don't use marijuana. (Psychology Health) . . .
Learn meditation.

Offline WPM

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #134 on: October 23, 2016, 11:49:49 AM »
So far there is Medicinal Marijuana, Recreational Marijuana, Sacramental Marijuana (per @wgw), and I feel like the balance is off so I'd like to suggest "Industrial Marijuana" (work drugs) and "Supplemental Marijuana" (pseudo-science).

Anyone?


It starts with the sensi-seeds or (marijuana seeds).
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #135 on: October 23, 2016, 04:11:45 PM »
You're much better off if you don't use marijuana. (Psychology Health) . . .
Okay.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #136 on: October 24, 2016, 12:59:46 AM »
I met a kid at a train station today who was just coming back from the clinic, he was injured in a car accident in his teens and had been using prescription painkillers until he went to the clinic, presumably. I asked him if he used medical marijuana and he told me he was prescribed marinol (a synthetic marijuana), however only 5 pills. Idk, weird story.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #137 on: October 24, 2016, 03:48:04 AM »
If you use frankincense in church, this is normal. It is aromatic. However, what if you burnt it at home for psychological effects? It seems that the same issues would apply as with marijuana if that were legalized.
Quote
The essential oil of frankincense is used on the skin and by inhalation as a pain-killer.
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-448-frankincense.aspx?activeingredientid=448&activeingredientname=frankincense

Now, EO clergy never teach "We use frankincense or other herbs to get intoxicated from smoke", or something like that. The teaching is that the incense is part of spirituality, like using bells, painting ikons with colors, or having melodies. But in truth, I think that it may have a faint mental effect that the church or others are not aware of during the service.

Anyway, if you are going to buy a lot of herbs like frankincense and burn them in your house or smoke them up, it's not something the church would be interested in or care about, except you shouldn't hurt your health. You don't want to live a life drunk or intoxicated by alcohol or smoke.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 03:50:08 AM by rakovsky »
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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #138 on: November 10, 2016, 07:10:36 AM »
Can you imagine Jesus smoking weed? The Apostles? St. Paisios? I can't.

I don't see why not - perhaps cannabis didn't carry the stigma back then that it does now?  It was used in many ancient medicines as a medicinal herb.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #139 on: November 10, 2016, 07:15:20 AM »
I don't know if the Church has an official stance on it - and even if a bishop or patriarch said something, the chances of the entire EOC ruling that smoking the devil's lettuce leads to damnation is slim to none.

I can only speak anecdotally.  I live in Colorado on a pretty liberal university campus (in my fraternity house, no less).  Most people here use cannabis in some way.  It's definitely "no big deal" in my community, and the taxes from recreational marijuana go to help our schools.  I use it recreationally.  It has been harmless for me, and it is healthier than drinking (which I cannot do because of a condition).  My counselor even recommends it as a means of helping to treat my bipolar disorder when I'm too up or too down.  I don't know, I really don't think it's a big deal (and I doubt God cares about Christians smoking some primo ganja when things like genocide and human trafficking are happening in our world at this very moment.)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 07:29:59 AM by Tikhon.of.Colorado »

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #140 on: November 10, 2016, 07:21:42 AM »

Marijuana is for dopes and retards, because that's precisely what it turns people into.
Stay of the hook for christians should not cultivate vices like those.
Besides, the "weed scene" is just terrible. I had lots of friends who smoked weed and hash and the conversations were... balls. Never heard of anything intelligent coming from them. Prolly because this stuff mentally handicaps you.


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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #141 on: November 10, 2016, 01:42:15 PM »
I don't see why not - perhaps cannabis didn't carry the stigma back then that it does now?  It was used in many ancient medicines as a medicinal herb.
I doubt it, cannabis was used to induce trances in Pagan rituals.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #142 on: November 10, 2016, 02:22:32 PM »
I don't see why not - perhaps cannabis didn't carry the stigma back then that it does now?  It was used in many ancient medicines as a medicinal herb.
I doubt it, cannabis was used to induce trances in Pagan rituals.

So was wine. (Not that I think it likely that the disciples were puffing cannabis).
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Offline mike

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #143 on: November 10, 2016, 02:50:25 PM »
I don't know if the Church has an official stance on it - and even if a bishop or patriarch said something, the chances of the entire EOC ruling that smoking the devil's lettuce leads to damnation is slim to none.

I can only speak anecdotally.  I live in Colorado on a pretty liberal university campus (in my fraternity house, no less).  Most people here use cannabis in some way.  It's definitely "no big deal" in my community, and the taxes from recreational marijuana go to help our schools.  I use it recreationally.  It has been harmless for me, and it is healthier than drinking (which I cannot do because of a condition).  My counselor even recommends it as a means of helping to treat my bipolar disorder when I'm too up or too down.  I don't know, I really don't think it's a big deal (and I doubt God cares about Christians smoking some primo ganja when things like genocide and human trafficking are happening in our world at this very moment.)

Pot is fine as long as as you stick to no more than several times per month. I've seen a few people that smoke a few times per week and it did not good for them.

Also pot and vodka do not mix well.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #144 on: November 10, 2016, 02:53:00 PM »
Pot is fine as long as as you stick to no more than several times per month. I've seen a few people that smoke a few times per week and it did not good for them

Yeah, in my experience, instead of relaxing, this makes people paranoid.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #145 on: November 10, 2016, 03:00:23 PM »
Pot is fine as long as as you stick to no more than several times per month. I've seen a few people that smoke a few times per week and it did not good for them

Yeah, in my experience, instead of relaxing, this makes people paranoid.

From my experience, it makes people frozen. Like a broken Windows.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #146 on: November 10, 2016, 03:13:42 PM »
Pot is fine as long as as you stick to no more than several times per month. I've seen a few people that smoke a few times per week and it did not good for them

Yeah, in my experience, instead of relaxing, this makes people paranoid.

From my experience, it makes people frozen. Like a broken Windows.

+1.

The fastest way to semi-permanent ennui is adoption of the pot lifestyle.

On the other hand, Tuesday my state voted to legalize it for medical use.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #147 on: November 10, 2016, 03:46:39 PM »
I don't know if the Church has an official stance on it - and even if a bishop or patriarch said something, the chances of the entire EOC ruling that smoking the devil's lettuce leads to damnation is slim to none.

I can only speak anecdotally.  I live in Colorado on a pretty liberal university campus (in my fraternity house, no less).  Most people here use cannabis in some way.  It's definitely "no big deal" in my community, and the taxes from recreational marijuana go to help our schools.  I use it recreationally.  It has been harmless for me, and it is healthier than drinking (which I cannot do because of a condition).  My counselor even recommends it as a means of helping to treat my bipolar disorder when I'm too up or too down.  I don't know, I really don't think it's a big deal (and I doubt God cares about Christians smoking some primo ganja when things like genocide and human trafficking are happening in our world at this very moment.)

I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot.  Maybe then you'll change your mind. But, hey it's legal, so do you as you will.  Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking.   Obviously the pot has affected your brain.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #148 on: November 10, 2016, 03:53:48 PM »
I use it everyday, but I put it into oil sometimes to make pot brownies. It's gentler.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 03:57:55 PM by mcarmichael »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #149 on: November 10, 2016, 04:41:36 PM »
I don't know if the Church has an official stance on it - and even if a bishop or patriarch said something, the chances of the entire EOC ruling that smoking the devil's lettuce leads to damnation is slim to none.

I can only speak anecdotally.  I live in Colorado on a pretty liberal university campus (in my fraternity house, no less).  Most people here use cannabis in some way.  It's definitely "no big deal" in my community, and the taxes from recreational marijuana go to help our schools.  I use it recreationally.  It has been harmless for me, and it is healthier than drinking (which I cannot do because of a condition).  My counselor even recommends it as a means of helping to treat my bipolar disorder when I'm too up or too down.  I don't know, I really don't think it's a big deal (and I doubt God cares about Christians smoking some primo ganja when things like genocide and human trafficking are happening in our world at this very moment.)

What a sorry excuse for legalising marijuana. It is like saying it is ok to steal from the rich because you are helping the poor or like the ads from gambling enterprises which show how great they are because they sponsor paralympians.  ::)

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #150 on: November 10, 2016, 05:26:45 PM »
I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot. 

Latin, Byzantine chant, and radiology...
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #151 on: November 10, 2016, 07:06:06 PM »
Our own Fr. Giryus wrote a compelling warning about marijuana use on his blog, and I concur with it.  One thing which strikes me is the enormous amount spent on procuring the passage of these legalizing ammendments by what has become known as the "marijuana industry", in the face of surprisingly underfunded opposition from mainly law enforcement lobbies.

As I see it, we have enough vices, and the fact that a large commercial industry has grown up to exploit the decriminalization of marijuana, which now actively uses its revenue to finance further decriminalization, should be a viewed as a red flag.  This is a passion on a par with gambling and alcoholism, one which renders those who are ensnared by it vulnerable to what amounts to commercial exploitation, and I fear, probably spiritual delusion, because the devil benefits when our decision making is impaired.
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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #152 on: November 10, 2016, 07:32:33 PM »
I don't know if the Church has an official stance on it - and even if a bishop or patriarch said something, the chances of the entire EOC ruling that smoking the devil's lettuce leads to damnation is slim to none.

I can only speak anecdotally.  I live in Colorado on a pretty liberal university campus (in my fraternity house, no less).  Most people here use cannabis in some way.  It's definitely "no big deal" in my community, and the taxes from recreational marijuana go to help our schools.  I use it recreationally.  It has been harmless for me, and it is healthier than drinking (which I cannot do because of a condition).  My counselor even recommends it as a means of helping to treat my bipolar disorder when I'm too up or too down.  I don't know, I really don't think it's a big deal (and I doubt God cares about Christians smoking some primo ganja when things like genocide and human trafficking are happening in our world at this very moment.)

What a sorry excuse for legalising marijuana. It is like saying it is ok to steal from the rich because you are helping the poor or like the ads from gambling enterprises which show how great they are because they sponsor paralympians.  ::)

No, it is nothing like that.

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #153 on: November 10, 2016, 07:34:16 PM »
I don't know if the Church has an official stance on it - and even if a bishop or patriarch said something, the chances of the entire EOC ruling that smoking the devil's lettuce leads to damnation is slim to none.

I can only speak anecdotally.  I live in Colorado on a pretty liberal university campus (in my fraternity house, no less).  Most people here use cannabis in some way.  It's definitely "no big deal" in my community, and the taxes from recreational marijuana go to help our schools.  I use it recreationally.  It has been harmless for me, and it is healthier than drinking (which I cannot do because of a condition).  My counselor even recommends it as a means of helping to treat my bipolar disorder when I'm too up or too down.  I don't know, I really don't think it's a big deal (and I doubt God cares about Christians smoking some primo ganja when things like genocide and human trafficking are happening in our world at this very moment.)

I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot.  Maybe then you'll change your mind. But, hey it's legal, so do you as you will.  Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking.   Obviously the pot has affected your brain.

Yep, I am a braindead zombie hell bent on consuming as many funyuns as possible.  I'm guessing you've never used it, friend.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #154 on: November 10, 2016, 07:55:51 PM »
One satisfying thing about this thread is observing how OC.net posters are just as capable of misinformation at high volume in subjects not theological.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #155 on: November 11, 2016, 12:09:14 AM »
I use it everyday, but I put it into oil sometimes to make pot brownies. It's gentler.

Come to think of it, the only objection my parish priest seemed to have against it was the smoking of it. For example, I've told him more than once that I like to eat it, and he's only ever told me "no smoking."
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #156 on: November 11, 2016, 03:54:39 AM »
Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking. 

Pretty much.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #157 on: November 11, 2016, 10:06:47 AM »
I don't know if the Church has an official stance on it - and even if a bishop or patriarch said something, the chances of the entire EOC ruling that smoking the devil's lettuce leads to damnation is slim to none.

I can only speak anecdotally.  I live in Colorado on a pretty liberal university campus (in my fraternity house, no less).  Most people here use cannabis in some way.  It's definitely "no big deal" in my community, and the taxes from recreational marijuana go to help our schools.  I use it recreationally.  It has been harmless for me, and it is healthier than drinking (which I cannot do because of a condition).  My counselor even recommends it as a means of helping to treat my bipolar disorder when I'm too up or too down.  I don't know, I really don't think it's a big deal (and I doubt God cares about Christians smoking some primo ganja when things like genocide and human trafficking are happening in our world at this very moment.)

I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot.  Maybe then you'll change your mind. But, hey it's legal, so do you as you will.  Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking.   Obviously the pot has affected your brain.

Yep, I am a braindead zombie hell bent on consuming as many funyuns as possible.  I'm guessing you've never used it, friend.

You guess wrong. Unlike you, I have a strong constitution and do not form addictions.  I never saw what others thought was so great about it. Sure, do it, but if that is what you need to have a good time, then you're probably a pretty boring person.  If you need this to for managing your mental issue,  shouldn't you also be undergoing other forms of treatment in addition to just simply getting high?  Besides, I know plenty of psychiatrists who will actually offer to prescribe their patients the active elements in marijuana to help them with treat their mental condition, but the vast majority of them decline because they want to get high instead. 
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #158 on: November 11, 2016, 10:07:41 AM »
I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot. 

Latin, Byzantine chant, and radiology...

Everyone's got to have a hobby.  I interned in a radiology lab for a couple of summers when I thought medicine was going to be my choice for a career.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 10:08:00 AM by scamandrius »
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #159 on: November 11, 2016, 10:13:15 AM »
Unlike you, I have a strong constitution and do not form addictions.

Except in your 'mind,' which manifests in your speech  ;)
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #160 on: November 11, 2016, 10:13:37 AM »
I know plenty of psychiatrists

I'm sure you do. Maybe a good blunt will succeed where they haven't?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #161 on: November 11, 2016, 11:47:10 AM »
I know plenty of psychiatrists

I'm sure you do. Maybe a good blunt will succeed where they haven't?

Perhaps I should introduce you to a few of them. I think they'd love to "pick your brain" for their research.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #162 on: November 11, 2016, 11:56:53 AM »
pick your brain
Is this a sexual euphemism?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #163 on: November 11, 2016, 12:07:07 PM »
Pot is fine as long as as you stick to no more than several times per month. I've seen a few people that smoke a few times per week and it did not good for them

Yeah, in my experience, instead of relaxing, this makes people paranoid.

I always hated it, maybe because when I did it I was doing all sorts of stupid things a boy in his teens to early 20's does.  IDK so much about lifetime regular users of it, some people who do it seem completely fried out, others seem to be fine.  Maybe it's like drinking or anything else, some people just can handle it, others not so much.  Count me in the "not so much" camp.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 12:07:45 PM by William T »

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #164 on: November 11, 2016, 12:27:50 PM »
Our own Fr. Giryus wrote a compelling warning about marijuana use on his blog, and I concur with it.  One thing which strikes me is the enormous amount spent on procuring the passage of these legalizing ammendments by what has become known as the "marijuana industry", in the face of surprisingly underfunded opposition from mainly law enforcement lobbies.

As I see it, we have enough vices, and the fact that a large commercial industry has grown up to exploit the decriminalization of marijuana, which now actively uses its revenue to finance further decriminalization, should be a viewed as a red flag.  This is a passion on a par with gambling and alcoholism, one which renders those who are ensnared by it vulnerable to what amounts to commercial exploitation, and I fear, probably spiritual delusion, because the devil benefits when our decision making is impaired.

The law enforcement opposition is likely much more to do with the private corporate prison industry for revenue.  The DEcriminalization is the best part, as it will reduce the prison population for non-violent offenders.  The number of people incarcerated for possessing small amounts of marijuana is a travesty.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #165 on: November 11, 2016, 04:07:55 PM »
pick your brain
Is this a sexual euphemism?

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that some people have used it as such, but such was not my intent. 
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #166 on: November 11, 2016, 08:08:01 PM »
As Christians we shouldn't be seeking to get high, but rather to be sober and vigilant :) And although something doesn't cause violence, doesn't make it ok. Laziness and indifference are also not good.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #167 on: November 11, 2016, 08:08:46 PM »
Sidebar: why is Raylight's name blacked out so you can't click on it?
God bless!

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #168 on: November 11, 2016, 09:34:23 PM »
Sidebar: why is Raylight's name blacked out so you can't click on it?
Because he blocked you. Respect his freedom, he's clearly not interested :P
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 09:34:52 PM by byhisgrace »
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #169 on: November 11, 2016, 09:47:07 PM »
Sidebar: why is Raylight's name blacked out so you can't click on it?
Because he blocked you. Respect his freedom, he's clearly not interested :P

I can't either, how did he do that?
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #170 on: November 11, 2016, 09:54:09 PM »

I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot.  Maybe then you'll change your mind. But, hey it's legal, so do you as you will.  Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking.   Obviously the pot has affected your brain.

Do you have brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot? I would be interested to compare them to people who habitually eat pot brownies, for science.

I worry about these kids in Colorado doing dabs, but not as much as I should worry about the methampehtamine, heroin, and cocain addicts.

If there is a "gateway" drug, it is either alcohol or nicotine or caffeine.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 10:02:08 PM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #171 on: November 11, 2016, 10:01:25 PM »
Sidebar: why is Raylight's name blacked out so you can't click on it?
Because he blocked you. Respect his freedom, he's clearly not interested :P

I can't either, how did he do that?

Admin mind trick. Nothing to see here, citizen.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #172 on: November 11, 2016, 10:07:02 PM »
Sidebar: why is Raylight's name blacked out so you can't click on it?
Because he blocked you. Respect his freedom, he's clearly not interested :P

I can't either, how did he do that?

Admin mind trick. Nothing to see here, citizen.

figures.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #173 on: November 11, 2016, 10:27:14 PM »

I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot.  Maybe then you'll change your mind. But, hey it's legal, so do you as you will.  Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking.   Obviously the pot has affected your brain.

Do you have brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot? I would be interested to compare them to people who habitually eat pot brownies, for science.

I worry about these kids in Colorado doing dabs, but not as much as I should worry about the methampehtamine, heroin, and cocain addicts.

If there is a "gateway" drug, it is either alcohol or nicotine or caffeine.

I said I did.  Now, I don't have a point of comparison for those who smoke it versus those who only ingest it through some other medium.  The problem is that you don't find many who only ingest pot in that way. 
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #174 on: November 11, 2016, 10:34:41 PM »

I said I did.  Now, I don't have a point of comparison for those who smoke it versus those who only ingest it through some other medium.  The problem is that you don't find many who only ingest pot in that way.

True enough. +1

I imagine I could find similar brain scans on Google?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 10:35:16 PM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #175 on: November 11, 2016, 11:08:34 PM »

I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot.  Maybe then you'll change your mind. But, hey it's legal, so do you as you will.  Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking.   Obviously the pot has affected your brain.

Do you have brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot? I would be interested to compare them to people who habitually eat pot brownies, for science.

I worry about these kids in Colorado doing dabs, but not as much as I should worry about the methampehtamine, heroin, and cocain addicts.

If there is a "gateway" drug, it is either alcohol or nicotine or caffeine.

I said I did.  Now, I don't have a point of comparison for those who smoke it versus those who only ingest it through some other medium.  The problem is that you don't find many who only ingest pot in that way.

Though I have no statistics, there are MANY people who ingest cannabis via edibles - it's the healthiest way to do so, and is encouraged.

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #176 on: November 11, 2016, 11:09:32 PM »
Our own Fr. Giryus wrote a compelling warning about marijuana use on his blog, and I concur with it.  One thing which strikes me is the enormous amount spent on procuring the passage of these legalizing ammendments by what has become known as the "marijuana industry", in the face of surprisingly underfunded opposition from mainly law enforcement lobbies.

As I see it, we have enough vices, and the fact that a large commercial industry has grown up to exploit the decriminalization of marijuana, which now actively uses its revenue to finance further decriminalization, should be a viewed as a red flag.  This is a passion on a par with gambling and alcoholism, one which renders those who are ensnared by it vulnerable to what amounts to commercial exploitation, and I fear, probably spiritual delusion, because the devil benefits when our decision making is impaired.

The law enforcement opposition is likely much more to do with the private corporate prison industry for revenue.  The DEcriminalization is the best part, as it will reduce the prison population for non-violent offenders.  The number of people incarcerated for possessing small amounts of marijuana is a travesty.

+1

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #177 on: November 11, 2016, 11:10:50 PM »
Pot is fine as long as as you stick to no more than several times per month. I've seen a few people that smoke a few times per week and it did not good for them

Yeah, in my experience, instead of relaxing, this makes people paranoid.

I always hated it, maybe because when I did it I was doing all sorts of stupid things a boy in his teens to early 20's does.  IDK so much about lifetime regular users of it, some people who do it seem completely fried out, others seem to be fine.  Maybe it's like drinking or anything else, some people just can handle it, others not so much.  Count me in the "not so much" camp.

Point of clarification - did you make these bad decisions while you were under its influence, or while using it was part of your life?  The stupidest thing I've done while stoned was eat my roommate's oreos and spill mountain dew on my keyboard.

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #178 on: November 11, 2016, 11:17:39 PM »
I don't know if the Church has an official stance on it - and even if a bishop or patriarch said something, the chances of the entire EOC ruling that smoking the devil's lettuce leads to damnation is slim to none.

I can only speak anecdotally.  I live in Colorado on a pretty liberal university campus (in my fraternity house, no less).  Most people here use cannabis in some way.  It's definitely "no big deal" in my community, and the taxes from recreational marijuana go to help our schools.  I use it recreationally.  It has been harmless for me, and it is healthier than drinking (which I cannot do because of a condition).  My counselor even recommends it as a means of helping to treat my bipolar disorder when I'm too up or too down.  I don't know, I really don't think it's a big deal (and I doubt God cares about Christians smoking some primo ganja when things like genocide and human trafficking are happening in our world at this very moment.)

I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot.  Maybe then you'll change your mind. But, hey it's legal, so do you as you will.  Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking.   Obviously the pot has affected your brain.

Yep, I am a braindead zombie hell bent on consuming as many funyuns as possible.  I'm guessing you've never used it, friend.

You guess wrong. Unlike you, I have a strong constitution and do not form addictions.  I never saw what others thought was so great about it. Sure, do it, but if that is what you need to have a good time, then you're probably a pretty boring person.  If you need this to for managing your mental issue,  shouldn't you also be undergoing other forms of treatment in addition to just simply getting high?  Besides, I know plenty of psychiatrists who will actually offer to prescribe their patients the active elements in marijuana to help them with treat their mental condition, but the vast majority of them decline because they want to get high instead.

I am on 200mg of Lamotrigine and 40mg of Latuda per day.  I attend weekly appoints with my counselor (LPC) as well as bi-weekly appointments with my psychiatric nurse practitioner, both of whom know I use cannabis to supplement my treatment.

I don't need marijuana to have a "good time".  If I'm going to have a good time, I keep a clear mind.  When I have a difficult day and can't get to sleep, or when I have a fight with a friend or family member that is triggering a manic or depressive episode, then I'll smoke a bowl, eat an edible, or do a couple of dabs with a roommate who has a rig. 

As far as I know, CBD treats physical ailments.  I didn't know it also worked for mental issues - I'll have to read up on that.

Unlike you, I have a strong constitution and do not form addictions.

Lol, ok.  With what addiction have you diagnosed me?  I've had to stop smoking for weeks when I couldn't justify spending money on cannabis.  I'm currently abstaining for my fraternity's purity week.  I will have to stop to do my internship.  I've never had any issues when "quitting", and I've been using it for a little over a year.

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #179 on: November 11, 2016, 11:20:24 PM »
if that is what you need to have a good time, then you're probably a pretty boring person.


Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #180 on: November 11, 2016, 11:30:45 PM »

I don't need marijuana to have a "good time".  If I'm going to have a good time, I keep a clear mind.  When I have a difficult day and can't get to sleep, or when I have a fight with a friend or family member that is triggering a manic or depressive episode, then I'll smoke a bowl, eat an edible, or do a couple of dabs with a roommate who has a rig. 

tagged: Mr. Wilson
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #181 on: November 11, 2016, 11:37:55 PM »
Though I have no statistics, there are MANY people who ingest cannabis via edibles - it's the healthiest way to do so, and is encouraged.
Here it's apparently far less safe and healthy than smoking or inhaling it, since cannabis comes with dung. Too good I don't smoke it.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #182 on: November 11, 2016, 11:44:02 PM »
Though I have no statistics, there are MANY people who ingest cannabis via edibles - it's the healthiest way to do so, and is encouraged.
Here it's apparently far less safe and healthy than smoking or inhaling it, since cannabis comes with dung. Too good I don't smoke it.

Say what?
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #183 on: November 11, 2016, 11:46:16 PM »

I should show you some brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot.  Maybe then you'll change your mind. But, hey it's legal, so do you as you will.  Because everything's OK in your universe (or at least in your frat house) as long as it doesn't involve genocide or human trafficking.   Obviously the pot has affected your brain.

Do you have brain scans of people who habitually smoke pot? I would be interested to compare them to people who habitually eat pot brownies, for science.

I worry about these kids in Colorado doing dabs, but not as much as I should worry about the methampehtamine, heroin, and cocain addicts.

If there is a "gateway" drug, it is either alcohol or nicotine or caffeine.

I said I did.  Now, I don't have a point of comparison for those who smoke it versus those who only ingest it through some other medium.  The problem is that you don't find many who only ingest pot in that way.

Though I have no statistics, there are MANY people who ingest cannabis via edibles - it's the healthiest way to do so, and is encouraged.

I don't doubt that there are many people who ingest cannabis via brownies et al.  The point was I don't have a basis of comparison for brain scans between those who ONLY smoke versus those who ONLY eat.  All that weed in your system must prevent you from spotting certain words. 
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #184 on: November 11, 2016, 11:49:44 PM »

Lol, ok.  With what addiction have you diagnosed me?  I've had to stop smoking for weeks when I couldn't justify spending money on cannabis.  I'm currently abstaining for my fraternity's purity week.  I will have to stop to do my internship.  I've never had any issues when "quitting", and I've been using it for a little over a year.

So your parents are footing the bill for college and they don't provide a weekly "pot" allowance?  The horror.

What the hell is purity week?  Is it the frat version of Great Lent? 
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #185 on: November 19, 2016, 11:17:39 AM »
Alot of interest in cannabis legalization is due to the potential medicinal uses, which are real, particularly in the area of chronic pain.  The conventional treatments for fibromyalgia are garbage.
"I have held many things in my hands, and I have lost them all; but whatever I have placed in God's hands, that I still possess."   - Martin Luther

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #186 on: November 19, 2016, 01:11:08 PM »
Alot of interest in cannabis legalization is due to the potential medicinal uses, which are real, particularly in the area of chronic pain.  The conventional treatments for fibromyalgia are garbage.

Doctors can and have readily made available prescriptions for CBD but  those won't allow patients to get high and don't have the euphoria induced by the presence of THC, so it is no wonder that patients are interested.  Medical marijuana users are hypocrites.  They say they want pain relief, but they really want to get high.  OK, fine.  Then call for legalization of marijuana across the board instead of hiding behind this medical-only facade.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #187 on: November 19, 2016, 02:56:24 PM »
You can have marijuana.

You're allowed to have Cannabis THC products.

Learn meditation.

Offline biro

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #188 on: November 19, 2016, 03:09:08 PM »
You can have marijuana.

You're allowed to have Cannabis THC products.

Depends on where you live.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #189 on: November 20, 2016, 03:23:12 AM »
I've been on a so-called "forced" tolerance breaks, the past 3-4 days.

Finally I caved and I called another guy that I know, to fulfill a loan.  I gave him money, and I received marijuana in compensation. It was a drug deal.

Does this bother people? It's like, sometimes at work, while I'm drinking beer, I stop to think about the underaged kids who cannot drink beer. Is it cruel, to drink beer?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 03:30:18 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
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"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #190 on: November 21, 2016, 03:54:17 PM »
Alot of interest in cannabis legalization is due to the potential medicinal uses, which are real, particularly in the area of chronic pain.  The conventional treatments for fibromyalgia are garbage.

Doctors can and have readily made available prescriptions for CBD but  those won't allow patients to get high and don't have the euphoria induced by the presence of THC, so it is no wonder that patients are interested.  Medical marijuana users are hypocrites.  They say they want pain relief, but they really want to get high.  OK, fine.  Then call for legalization of marijuana across the board instead of hiding behind this medical-only facade.

Scamandrianism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
Quote
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Offline wgw

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #191 on: November 21, 2016, 03:57:55 PM »
Scamandrius does have a point, however.  Also the problem with marijuana as a means of "being happy" as you rather euphemistically put it is the disordered thought it is known to produce; psychosis is an alarming prospect, and people who would risk it to get high are being greatly irresponsible.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #192 on: November 21, 2016, 04:07:51 PM »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #193 on: November 21, 2016, 04:15:58 PM »
Alot of interest in cannabis legalization is due to the potential medicinal uses, which are real, particularly in the area of chronic pain.  The conventional treatments for fibromyalgia are garbage.

Doctors can and have readily made available prescriptions for CBD but  those won't allow patients to get high and don't have the euphoria induced by the presence of THC, so it is no wonder that patients are interested.  Medical marijuana users are hypocrites.  They say they want pain relief, but they really want to get high.  OK, fine.  Then call for legalization of marijuana across the board instead of hiding behind this medical-only facade.

Scamandrianism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

so, happiness by any means necessary then? 
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #194 on: November 21, 2016, 04:22:56 PM »
Alot of interest in cannabis legalization is due to the potential medicinal uses, which are real, particularly in the area of chronic pain.  The conventional treatments for fibromyalgia are garbage.

Doctors can and have readily made available prescriptions for CBD but  those won't allow patients to get high and don't have the euphoria induced by the presence of THC, so it is no wonder that patients are interested.  Medical marijuana users are hypocrites.  They say they want pain relief, but they really want to get high.  OK, fine.  Then call for legalization of marijuana across the board instead of hiding behind this medical-only facade.

Scamandrianism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

so, happiness by any means necessary then?

When you're a star, they let you do it.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #195 on: November 21, 2016, 04:48:19 PM »
Alot of interest in cannabis legalization is due to the potential medicinal uses, which are real, particularly in the area of chronic pain.  The conventional treatments for fibromyalgia are garbage.

Doctors can and have readily made available prescriptions for CBD but  those won't allow patients to get high and don't have the euphoria induced by the presence of THC, so it is no wonder that patients are interested.  Medical marijuana users are hypocrites.  They say they want pain relief, but they really want to get high.  OK, fine.  Then call for legalization of marijuana across the board instead of hiding behind this medical-only facade.

Scamandrianism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

so, happiness by any means necessary then?

Indeed.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #196 on: November 21, 2016, 05:23:01 PM »
I'm all for legalization of marijuana and don't see the use as particularly sinful as in itself but using it as a medicine without proper medical education is crazy. You are not supposed to take any medicine without knowing side-effects, prescription etc. That's why we have professionals for that.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #197 on: November 28, 2016, 08:51:26 PM »
So, I've learned that the Unites States of America simultaneously holds a patent on Cannabinoids as a "Neuro-protectant and an anti-oxidant", and at the same time it considers Cannabis a Schedule I drug, "with no medicinal value".

Has anybody else heard this?

How can both be true?
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #198 on: August 09, 2017, 08:42:44 PM »
Marijuana associated with three-fold risk of death from hypertension

Quote
She said: "Our results suggest a possible risk of hypertension mortality from marijuana use. This is not surprising since marijuana is known to have a number of effects on the cardiovascular system. Marijuana stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, leading to increases in heart rate, blood pressure and oxygen demand. Emergency rooms have reported cases of angina and heart attacks after marijuana use."
....
"We found higher estimated cardiovascular risks associated with marijuana use than cigarette smoking," said Ms Yankey. "This indicates that marijuana use may carry even heavier consequences on the cardiovascular system than that already established for cigarette smoking. However, the number of smokers in our study was small and this needs to be examined in a larger study."
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #199 on: August 09, 2017, 10:13:13 PM »
^ Funded by the opioid lobby.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #200 on: August 10, 2017, 02:18:41 AM »
I'm all for legalization of marijuana and don't see the use as particularly sinful as in itself but using it as a medicine without proper medical education is crazy. You are not supposed to take any medicine without knowing side-effects, prescription etc. That's why we have professionals for that.

I would only use over-the-counter pot if I used medical pot.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #201 on: August 10, 2017, 02:36:00 AM »
I'm all for legalization of marijuana and don't see the use as particularly sinful as in itself but using it as a medicine without proper medical education is crazy. You are not supposed to take any medicine without knowing side-effects, prescription etc. That's why we have professionals for that.

I would only use over-the-counter pot if I used medical pot.

At your local Wawa.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #202 on: August 10, 2017, 02:43:11 AM »
I'm all for legalization of marijuana and don't see the use as particularly sinful as in itself but using it as a medicine without proper medical education is crazy. You are not supposed to take any medicine without knowing side-effects, prescription etc. That's why we have professionals for that.
That's not why we have professionals for that. We do not have professionals for that, because apparently we can't have nice things.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:53:08 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline youssef

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #203 on: August 10, 2017, 07:24:15 AM »
I had smoke weed for 5 years on a regular basis. Smoking weed is better then drinking alcohol. The only problem is with hash you don't know what you are really buying, unless if i am in Lebanon.

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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #204 on: August 10, 2017, 11:54:41 AM »
As a Westerner, you are supposed to drink alcohol, not smoke weed. After all, we even typically have an enzyme for alcohol decomposition.
Also, I refer to Father Hesse´s famous reply when he was asked about his drinking habits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTExEWC2du0

(quite at the beginning)  ;D
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #205 on: August 10, 2017, 02:32:10 PM »
I had smoke weed for 5 years on a regular basis. Smoking weed is better then drinking alcohol. The only problem is with hash you don't know what you are really buying, unless if i am in Lebanon.
It can also trigger psychosis  when there is predisposition, and in the long run it may damage any healthy brain's synapses.
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Re: Using Marijuana (weed)?
« Reply #206 on: August 10, 2017, 03:03:08 PM »
I had smoke weed for 5 years on a regular basis. Smoking weed is better then drinking alcohol. The only problem is with hash you don't know what you are really buying, unless if i am in Lebanon.
It can also trigger psychosis  when there is predisposition, and in the long run it may damage any healthy brain's synapses.

There's no evidence of this. It's old-fashioned fear mongering.
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy